SERIAL KILLER: The Green River Killer

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:31] Hi, Crime Junkies. Welcome back to another episode. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. And I'm Gret. And today I have kind of an interesting episode. If you'll remember last week, we talked about Misty Copsey and her case was very heavily linked to and related to the Green River Killer, possibly. And in part of the episode, I said, you know, I don't know a lot about the Green River Killer, so I can't really speak to it. So I decided what better for our next episode [01:00] killer, which is one of the craziest serial killer cases, I think, here in America. [01:06] Don't forget that every episode is brought to you by Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana, so you can get more information about their program at crimetips.org. And this is the last episode of May, which means we have a Pruppet of the Month segment after our episode. So if you want to hang around, hear a wonderful story about a dog adoption, I promise not to make you cry this time. [01:28] music plays

[01:59] Last time we had a serial killer case, we talked about LISC, the Long Island serial killer. We were still left with a lot of questions. The killer, or killers, have yet to be found, but this week I'm going to tell you about a serial killer who, after over two decades, was captured. And this is the Green River Killer, or who we now know as Gary Ridgeway. Hearing that kind of gives me hope for cases like the Long Island serial killer. [02:26] The Green River Killer was caught some 20 years later, and Golden State Killer was caught like 40 years later. [02:34] We could be in the last days before they announce that they've identified and captured Lisk, right? [02:40] Yes and no. I'd like to think that things will shake loose in the List case the way they did for the Golden State Killer and the Green River Killer. But they were both caught because of DNA and there's none of that in the List case. And the reason the cops even had DNA back in the Green River case is because he committed his crimes so long ago. He actually started, as far as we know, in the early 1980s when DNA wasn't even a thing. [03:10] crimes in other ways, he didn't even know that this was something he was supposed to be doing. So our story starts in July of 1982 when a young girl named Wendy had gone missing. She was actually in foster care at the age of 16 and she had left her home one day and she had been known to start selling herself on a well-known street for sex workers. It's called the Pacific Highway South.

[03:40] bikes and they saw something floating in the green river and it looked kind of like a mannequin. Can I make a crime junkie life rule? Yeah. It's never a mannequin. No never. Because of all the true crime that I consume I kind of have the opposite reaction. If I ever see like the slightest thing on the side of the road or a river bank or in long grass I immediately go to like oh my god [04:10] Well, these boys found more than a log or a mannequin. When they got closer to it, it was the body of a naked girl with her clothes tied around her neck. At first, when police got to the scene, they assumed it was some kind of one-off incident, possibly a crime of passion or a domestic dispute. This was Wendy, and she was a super young girl, so they had no idea what could have happened to her. But [04:35] They had no way of knowing that this was just the beginning of a killer's reign of terror on the Seattle-Tacoma area. [04:42] Just four weeks after Wendy was found in the Green River, another woman was found face down floating in the river. 23-year-old Deborah. Just three days later, passerby is spot what looked like two more mannequins in the river. Again, it's never a mannequin. Ever, ever. When crime scene techs arrive, they find two women. Cynthia, who was just 17, and Marsha, who was 31.

[05:12] with very large rocks. And while they are processing this scene with these two women, they find another body. And this is the body of a 16-year-old girl named Opal. And from then on, bodies are consistently being found. Women and teenage girls are consistently going missing off the streets, and the police know there is a serious epidemic, but they have no idea who is behind it. They're trying to follow every single tip, [05:42] just running in circles. They do get one really good break in the case though. An 18 year old girl named Marie goes missing in April of 1983. We know the timeline looking back on it now and she is the 23rd girl to go missing in relation to the Green River Killer. What's the same? [06:02] Well, as they investigate her disappearance, a witness says they saw her getting into a pickup truck the night that she was last seen. [06:09] This piece of information wasn't new, though. Missing women had been linked to a pickup truck, and they heard this before. [06:16] What was new, this time, shortly after the witness told police about this pickup she saw, she ended up seeing the very same pickup truck again in the driveway of someone's home. [06:29] When police look into this tip, they find out that it is the home of Gary Ridgeway. So obviously we're talking about a case that was solved over 15 years ago. We all know that Gary Ridgeway is the Green River Killer, but...

[06:43] I also know that he's responsible for a minimum of 49 deaths, but you're telling me the police were at his door after victim #23? [06:52] Yeah, spoiler alert, they don't arrest him. They go to his home, have a conversation with him, but he comes off as a very normal... [07:00] dude, and while he might be on police's radar now, there's nothing to make them think that he's the killer. [07:06] Oh, nothing except... [07:08] A witness spotting his car picking up the victim. [07:11] Yeah, just that. So I don't know how much police looked into Gary after this first encounter, but if they would have dug deep, this is what they would have found. I don't think Gary was ever a normal child. There wasn't one instance I can point to really that made him into the killer he became, but his childhood was troubled. [07:32] He was the middle child of three boys. He was born in Salt Lake City, Utah, but at a young age, he and his family moved to Washington State. Specifically, they bought a home very close to the Pacific Highway South, which is a street where it was well known that you could go and meet a sex worker. And this is where Gary would later stalk and abduct his victims. [07:54] His home life was rocky as a child. Although they looked like the all-American family on the outside, they were not a happy family. Gary's mother was very domineering and could be both physically and verbally abusive to the family, especially to her husband. One time she even smashed a plate over his head at dinner and he didn't do anything. He just gets up, walks away from the table, and this is how he was in most of their confrontation.

[08:24] she overpowered him and he was too meek or didn't care enough to fight back. And some psychologists have attributed this interaction between Gary's parents as the building block for his hatred toward women. He hated the way his mother treated all of them and he really hated the fact that his father was never strong enough to really stand up to her and he didn't protect himself, he didn't protect Gary or his brothers from his mother. People say that when Gary grew up he wanted to be [08:54] and extreme to what his father was. [08:56] His mother was also very mean to the boys. She would scream at them. She would ridicule and embarrass Gary as he grew up, sometimes in front of his friends or his brothers. He actually had a problem wetting the bed until he was 13 years old, and his mom would make fun of him in front of his brothers, and she would force him into a cold bath, where even at the ages of 11, 12, 13, she would hand wash him, [09:26] hearts, which were his genitals. And she would do this all while she was barely dressed, like in her underwear. This is just awesome. [09:35] Again, all super inappropriate, and especially at his age. And there are other things that she would do. She worked at a clothing store, fitting men for suits. And she would tell Gary these stories about how while she was down on her knees, measuring these men's inseam, they would get aroused. And she would explain to him what their erections were like and what their genitals smelled like.

[09:59] And this all contributed to very confusing thoughts about his mother, about women, and about sex in general. And this was noticeable early on. Gary said that he used to fantasize about his mother. Like, [10:13] sexually? Partly. He said he had two competing fantasies. The first was sexual. She used to come home sometimes and lay out in the backyard in her bikini, sometimes even topless. And he said she was the only female figure he had ever seen. So while he's going through puberty, which was already confusing for him because she was washing his genitals and talking to him about really inappropriate sexual things, he's seeing her like this and getting very confused. He would get [10:43] and he said he liked the sexual aspect of his mother better than the actual mothering part of her. But at the same time, he said he had those thoughts. He also thought about torturing her, like mutilating her, cutting her throat, and even burning down their house with her in it. [10:59] Wait, are you familiar with the Oedipus Complex? Kind of. Like, do you want to explain? Sure. It's a Freudian theory that all boys are sexually attracted to their mothers at a young age, and they see their fathers as a competitor. If you have a healthy relationship with your mother, you eventually grow out of it. You're never going to win her over. You're never going to beat your dad. And it becomes nothing. It's just something that you experience and doesn't really affect you at all. Freud's theory is everyone feels like this as a child, and we all just grow out of it. [11:29] Everyone, Freud. Everyone. It's pretty broad, I agree. I feel like this is one of his more...

[11:36] controversial yeah I don't know why I couldn't think of the word [11:43] But if you consider that in this case, [11:45] Gary was never threatened by his dad. His dad was a very weak figure in their family. So... [11:52] Though, according to Freud, everyone experiences this and the majority of us grow out of it, Gary never had to grow out of it because he never had a competitor for his mom. [12:02] So he believed that he could actually be with his mother. And I'm sure like the stuff that she was doing was making him think that. I mean, she's talking to him about these sexual things, stuff a mother shouldn't be talking to her son about bathing him while he's like way too old to be bathed. Literally nurturing his Oedipus complex. Interesting. I wonder, I mean, I have no research to back this up. It's just the thought that I have. I wonder how many serial killers have this complex. It'd be super interesting to know. Freud says all of them. [12:31] True. [12:34] Whether he had this or not, he said that he knew these feelings were wrong to have about his mother, but he couldn't stop them. So he got these sexual feelings mixed together with all of these violent thoughts all during some of his most formative years when really his sexual preferences are developing. So you can see how a violent man came from this childhood that was laid before him. [12:58] But it wasn't just Gary's mother that we can see in his actions as an adult. Gary's father worked in a mortuary, and he used to come home, and he would tell Gary stories about how his co-worker would have sex with the dead bodies. Oh my god, why would you tell a kid that? Why would you tell anybody that? I know. These parents. I know. Also, note to self, getting cremated because... Seriously. What the hell?

[13:28] he's learning about sex and going through puberty, he has someone talking to him about necrophilia, basically normalizing it. And this goes into the mix for Gary. And he would later be known to revisit the corpses of his victims, sometimes multiple times, and use their bodies until they were so decomposed that they became infested with maggots. [13:50] Ugh. [13:51] So sorry to anyone who's listening to this pre-breakfast or... [13:56] pre- [13:57] eating anything ever again ever now for all the dysfunction going on at home you would think that gary would be displaying some disturbing signs at school or with his friends and this is the craziest part about his story to me all of his classmates describe him as being well liked in [14:19] I would have expected him to be very withdrawn and isolated. [14:22] Me too. Now this isn't to say that there weren't warning signs. I think it just shows why he was able to go so long without getting caught. He was able to be normal and likable and just like the average Joe when he needed to be so he could get women to trust him and he could get police to believe him and he could get neighbors to like him and then no one suspected him. The warning signs that people should have been looking for were glaring though. He was abusing animals, setting [14:52] Oh, so he had all of the markers of the McDonald triad. Yeah, he very clearly displayed all three. Wetting the bed, abuse to animals, and setting fires. And he went even further. In elementary school, he would stalk some girls that he liked or girls that he was interested in. He would follow them home from school a lot. And he continued this through middle school. And in high school, he had even tried to force sex on a girl who he had given a ride home to.

[15:22] for sure he did that should have been a warning sign to everyone but most people didn't know about is he actually stabbed a kid when he was 16 years old. What? Yeah I know he took a young boy into the woods and just kind of let him in there looked him in the face whipped out a knife and stabbed him and the boy was so confused and he asked him why he did it and he just said he wanted to know what [15:52] because he did survive and he reported this incident, but they weren't able to track it back to Gary. [15:58] So he's living this pretty outwardly normal life with these instances of violence just peppered through that really no one is picking up on. [16:07] I will say, the one thing that does stand out to everyone is that Gary had a very low IQ, 82 to be exact, which isn't low enough to constitute any kind of mental disability, but he did have to repeat a couple of grades and he didn't graduate until he was 20 years old. [16:24] When he did graduate, he got his first girlfriend, Claudia. She was a local girl who was just a year younger than him. And after a year of dating, they both got married. And shortly after he graduated, Gary had actually enlisted in the Navy. And right after they got married, he got shipped off. And so while he's in the Navy, he frequents sex workers. And he said he did this because he was forced to because his wife was so far away. Like, you know, had to do it. Had to do it.

[16:54] Philippines, he actually ended up contracting gonorrhea from a sex worker and he was furious and blamed this woman for all of his problems. So this is where a lot of the experts think that his hatred for women really became focused as a hatred for sex workers. So [17:12] When he returns home, he found out that his wife had also been unfaithful to him. And instead of just being like, oh, weird, I cheated too. Like, let's just call it even. We're both really bad at being married. He is outraged and says that she turned into a, quote, whore. So he divorces her. And by the way, again, like quotes there because I hate that word. And I never, ever, ever want to use it if I don't have to. So this brings us to 1972. [17:42] designs onto trucks. His neighbors and co-workers all said that he seemed like the average Joe, super nice guy, a little bit odd, but they never suspected anything of him. And being the average Joe that he is, he even gets married again. Now the second wife he spent more time with. He was gone for most of his first marriage, so she really didn't see the warning signs of what was to come like his second wife did. [18:08] Gary used to take her out by the Green River to have sex with her. He had this fetish for having sex outdoors and especially in the areas which he would later use as a dumping ground for his victims. And that's where he would go and return to their corpses. The sex was getting more violent, more frequent. He needed it all of the time from her. And she eventually ended up getting pregnant and had their son. And Gary was pissed.

[18:38] of a normal father. His anger started because there was a time right after she had the baby where she couldn't have sex with him. Yeah, because she had pushed a human out of her body. Yeah, but he did not care. He just knew that she was useless to him and he blamed his son. And having the baby took attention away from Gary. It took time away from Gary. She could no longer [19:08] When they did have sex, it got weird. He would try and scare her, like jump out from behind things or say things. And this is how he would become aroused. And more often than not, during sex, he would try and choke her until she was close to passing out. And finally, all of this became too much and she ended up divorcing him. [19:38] hatred of his second wife. Once he even said that if he had only killed her, he wouldn't have killed all of those other sex workers. They were all substitutes for her. And sometime after this divorce is when the murders began. Did he have custody of his son at all while he was killing these women? [19:55] Not only did he have custody of him, he would use him as part of his ruse. He had his son every other weekend, and he would use this contact with his son in different ways to make these women trust him more.

[20:09] Like, for example, some women would ask to see his ID. And I will let Gary himself tell you what he would do. Well, one of them was, as you, as I, they would, a woman would get in the car. She's already in the car? She's in the car. She's always in the car driving down the road. And she, first, she wants to see my ID. [20:39] over my driver's license to hide my name. But on the opposite side was pictures. And a picture of my son. And then to see my son and they would know I was a probably normal person. [21:02] He would also leave toys in the back of the car to put these women at ease as well. [21:28] And he even showed off this family setting when he would bring these women home with him. He would show them his son's room and these women would relax because surely a father, a man who's been married before, can't be the same guy who's killing all of these women. He said that he was actually asked over 50 times by these women if he was the Green River Killer.

[21:51] And one time, just to show you how he would use his son, he actually let his son meet one of his victims. [22:21] took her into an area and my son was there and I killed her. I'm real sure my son didn't see it, [22:39] but that only happened one time. Gary said having his son there only ever happened one time, [22:51] about what this would be doing to his son later in life. [22:54] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [23:14] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now. [23:21] wherever you get your podcasts.

[23:24] Now this brings us back to the beginning of our story where police had been pointed in the direction of Gary. So you know all about him. He's been committing these crimes and police are pointed to him because someone saw his truck pick up the girl, then saw in his driveway. But Gary is able to divert suspicion. Remember, the first time they came to him was in 1983. Women were going missing at an astonishing rate. By the end of 1983, there were 13 victims found. [23:54] All of them were either sex workers or runaways, and within that population, there were another two dozen women who went missing. [24:03] By 1984, the local authorities had developed a Green River task force. It took them over three dozen missing or murdered women. [24:11] to create a task force. [24:13] I know, this is a broken system. This reminds me a lot, again, of the Lisk case. He was preying on people who weren't going to be noticed by people if they went missing. Furthermore, these are people who are actively avoiding police. There were no back pages back then. Their killer was meeting them on the streets. And these women don't want to be caught getting into the car of a John. So they're really trying to avoid police while they're working. [24:43] They are the perfect victim for this killer. [24:46] Of the women who had been found, he only left five of the first ten by the Green River. Even though this is how he got his name, he eventually started venturing out, leaving them in other outdoor areas. He did say, though, that he would keep them in these clusters, and it was usually never just a single body. He said he liked to keep them together so that he could drive by them and relive these memories. He said,

[25:10] And he's still all the while... [25:13] Like playing, I can't think of a better word, playing with their bodies after death. He was having sex with them, putting rocks inside of their sexual organs, just messed up stuff. From all of this activity where he would go back, police were able to collect DNA from some of the victims, those who he revisited. But there was really nothing they could do in the mid-80s except for save it and hope for scientific advancements. [25:40] By the end of 1984, he has killed over 40 women. Then all of a sudden, the task force sees a sharp drop in the number of victims. They don't know if he moved or died or was in jail, but really, [25:55] there was probably one of two reasons that Gary Ridgway stopped. [26:00] One of the reasons could have been that [26:03] About the same time, in 1985, he had just gotten married to his third wife, so possibly his sexual needs were being satisfied. But personally, just my opinion, I find that kind of hard to believe because the whole time he was killing all these other women, he had multiple girlfriends and consensual sex partners. [26:24] What would be the second reason? Well, in 1984, the task force that was formed got really close to Gary, and they had even given him a lie detector test, which he passed. And this is why you don't take a polygraph. They mean nothing. [26:40] Yeah, polygraphs are looking for stress. We've said this a thousand times. A guy who has no remorse and no guilt isn't stressed. And so he passes and they have nothing to hold him on and they end up letting him go and moving on to other suspects. So he could have just been laying low for a little while.

[26:57] By 1987, somehow, the task force ends up circling back around to Gary Ridgway. And they piece it together and realize that he didn't have a solid alibi for any of the disappearances of their missing and murdered women. And they were trying to track him and his trips to gas stations. [27:27] and not really doing anything else. His story isn't matching up. So they then... [27:33] put him like in a [27:34] picture lineup with a bunch of other people and a couple of witnesses identify him as being with some of these missing and murdered women. So based on the suspicions they had way back in 1984 and all of this new stuff they had in 1987, they're able to get a search warrant and do a full search of his home. But they come up completely different. [27:56] empty. Because as dumb as Gary was, he was smart enough not to keep any trophies at his home. That's kind of unusual for serial killers not to take any trophies, isn't it? Oh, I [28:07] I didn't say he didn't take any. He just didn't keep them. He used to do something kind of strange. He would take jewelry from the women that he killed, and then he would take it to his office and leave it in the women's bathroom, like on the sink or near the toilet, as if someone had left it there, hoping that someone would swipe it. And he would watch and wait for his coworkers to be wearing the jewelry around work. And this is how he would totally get off during the day.

[28:36] I also heard in just one or two places that he would have garage sales and sell lots of random women's jewelry, but I don't know how much of that is real and how much is nosy neighbors trying to be a part of that story after the fact. [28:49] You said he was married for a third time when the police came back around in '87, right? [28:54] What did his third wife think of all of this? She just thought that he must look like someone who was really the killer. And that's the thing. He was super good at blending in. And again, for as dumb as his IQ says he was, he was smart in how he killed. He even kind of flaunted this later on after he was captured, saying that at least he was the best at one thing. [29:17] Summer breaks should be fun, but it is also important to keep young minds active. Even though my daughter's out of preschool, we are helping her all summer continue to learn and study and just not give up building that muscle. And IXL is a great way to help kids stay engaged and avoid losing progress between school years. IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S. And as an award-winning online learning platform, IXL helps kids truly understand what they're learning. [29:47] confidence, or strengthening writing skills. Studies show kids who use IXL score higher on tests, proven in all 50 states. From pre-K through 12th grade, IXL offers personalized, interactive content for each child's level and pace. It is an easy way to support learning now through the summer and into the next school year. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now. And Crime Junkie listeners, you can get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when you

[30:17] ixl.com slash crimejunkie. Visit ixl.com slash crimejunkie to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. [30:27] When summer heat ramps up, did you know that patio surfaces can hit 150 degrees? That's hot enough to make your backyard feel like a punishment. If you have bare windows, the indoor temps can even go up by 20 degrees. But with Blinds.com, you can beat the heat with custom solar shades for your den and patio. Whether you're going DIY or leaving it to the pros, Blinds.com keeps you in control. Choose the level of support that works best for you, with flexibility every step of the way, even picking the right style. They offer free consultation with their award-winning design experts. [30:56] personal favorite part is how there are no pushy salespeople, no awkward at-home visits, just real advice, instant quotes, and absolutely zero pressure. Samples ship fast and free and everything's backed by Blinds.com's 100% satisfaction guarantee. Because at Blinds.com, the only thing they treat better than Windows is you. Right now, our listeners get an exclusive $50 off when you spend $500 or more. Go to Blinds.com and use code CRIMEJUNKIE at checkout for $50 off. Limited time offer, [31:26] See blinds.com for details. [31:29] If a victim would scratch him, he would cut off her fingernails. Once at a dump site, he noticed that his truck had left tire marks, so he then immediately replaced all of his tires. He would often intentionally pick up sex workers to have very normal interactions with them, so that they would go spread the word to all of their friends that he was a nice guy, he paid them, and he was no one to be afraid of, so that way girls would get into his car easier and wouldn't put up a fight.

[31:58] And even crazier, he would also plant evidence like cigarette butts, knowing that he wasn't a smoker. And later in his killing spree, he planted airport pamphlets trying to give police the idea that the killer was a traveler. And he even drove some of the remains of the women that he killed from Seattle to Portland to try and convince police that the killer was really traveling south or the killer had moved. And they actually investigated this lead for a while. [32:28] away with it all. The task force could never pin it on him. He didn't slip up. His downfall was DNA. One of the times that he was interviewed by police, they collected his DNA and they had his semen from old crime scenes. And it wasn't until the summer of 2001 that they were able to match them together and pick him up outside of his work. His DNA was conclusively linked to only four of [32:58] the table, he would confess to everything. And everything he did. He even led them to the bodies of previously undiscovered women, and they were able to link him to the murders of 49 women. But they suspected him of up to 71, and he thinks he killed over 90. I have two questions. And [33:21] If police think he killed more, why wasn't he charged? [33:25] He thinks he killed 90? Well, in a lot of the other cases, they don't.

[33:30] just couldn't get things to match up. Either Gary's story didn't match what they had on victims that they had found, or he says he killed someone that they never found a body, or some of these women were just missing and nothing really happened. So they have 71 people that they think that he's linked to. And for Gary, he said that he just can't remember who he killed. He was always pretty attached to the places and he would drive by them, and he could lead investigators to burial sites, [34:00] enough thought or respect for these women to even remember... [34:04] how many he killed, what their names were, what they even looked like. In fact, he says that he doesn't even remember his first kill. The first one that we know about was Wendy back in 1982, but Gary thinks that he started as early as the 70s. How can a serial killer like him not remember, at the very minimum, his first kill? I mean, he was the one who told police about his cruelty to animals and about stabbing that boy when he was a kid, [34:34] Yeah, there's a couple of things that I think about this. And most likely, this just shows how little regard he has for these women, that it just doesn't even register for him when he's murdering them. They mean nothing to him. The other thing that I can think is, Gary says that actually when he was really young, like when he was 16 and stabbed that kid, he said around the same time, he actually drowned a boy in a lake.

[35:04] and the other. [35:05] I don't know what they couldn't match to it. There were two boys... [35:08] that had drowned in the lake the same year, the same lake that Gary was talking about, but for whatever reason, they couldn't link it to him. So it's possible that he actually did remember his first, which kind of opens up the question to me, was he killing from that point on, which was way sooner? Was he killing when he was over in the Philippines and in the Navy? When did he really start? But it's not too surprising to me, just knowing how little he thought of these women, [35:38] that they were not human to him so it was like killing a bug it meant nothing and it just didn't even register he's now serving out his life in a prison in walla walla washington where brit both you and i have family right uh i have a cousin and you have a cousin i know i okay so did you know that they had this prison that is like housing some of america's worst serial killers [36:04] I had no idea, and I've been to Walla Walla. I know, so have I. Like, I only know about—they have, like, great wineries. I went for a wine weekend once, and it's beautiful. And I had no idea that I was probably within, like, a 20-minute car drive from Gary Ridgway. Gary Ridgway! I know. Isn't that insane? I— [36:24] Don't mean to sound like I'm fangirling, but that's crazy. Yeah, I mean, like, I am not doing anything with this information. I don't know what it means to me, but to me it's just super weird. We have another trip planned out there.

[36:36] And I will definitely be thinking of this [36:38] Almost the whole time. [37:08] sign up for our newsletter. We have our merch store opening dangerously soon. And the first people we're gonna tell about it [37:15] are the people on our newsletter. So make sure you go sign up on our website. And stick around if you want to hear an adorable prophet story. [37:30] Crime Junkie is written and hosted by me. All of our sound production and editing comes from Britt Prawat. And all of our music, including our theme, comes from Justin Daniel. Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? [37:45] proof. [37:46] *Mario* [37:49] Music.

[38:06] Hi everyone, welcome to my favorite part of the month, Prepet of the Month segment. And- Ashley, Ashley. I actually- [38:14] Last month you were a mess during Propit of the Month. We had people almost angry at us because you cried and made them cry. Okay, listen, I didn't say it was the happiest time of the month. I just said I love it the most. Sometimes... [38:28] The love makes me cry. I've got to be honest with you. I cry at the good stories. I cry extra hard at the bad stories. [38:34] I can't really make it through. That's why, you guys, I'm not allowed to do Propit of the Month anymore. At least temporarily, I'm going to take that away from you. Yeah, Britt's taking the baton. So I'm going to sit back and cry in silence because the great part is we can turn off my audio and you guys... [38:51] don't have to hear me cry even when we tell the good stories. [38:54] So, Britt, who is our Prepet of the Month this month? I am so excited about our Prepet of the Month this month. Our Prepet is named Ash. Fitting, I thought, for you. I love it already. Oh, God. [39:06] So a listener named Megan got a call that I personally have always wanted to get from my husband. Babe, [39:16] I got a dog. Oh my God. Best call. I mean, come on. Best call. Evidently, this is super unlike her husband, but one of his coworkers had told him about this beautiful dog at the shelter and showed him a picture, and her husband knew that he had to get this dog. [39:32] Wait, what kind of dog is this? I'm going to tell you soon.

[39:37] All you know right now is it's the beautiful dog. Okay, deal. [39:41] All of them are, but whatever. So he brings this dog home, quote unquote, to foster. And it's a puppy. Only three months old. So super cute, right? [39:53] a tiny little cuddly pup [39:57] But she gets home and Ash is massive. Practically a mini horse, she said. Even at three months? But she fell in love with him. And after they finished the foster program with him, they ended up adopting him. Oh my God. I was actually just talking to someone about this today. She's like, that's called a foster fail. And she's like... Foster fail. Yeah. And she's like, but... Because she's had four foster fails. And she was like, it's only a fail if you tried. And I never tried to give them away. Yeah. [40:26] sorry go on so [40:31] Ash, it turns out, is a purebred blue cane corso, which I was unfamiliar with, but he's this beautiful smoky gray color. And Megan and her husband are both firefighters. So they kind of came to the name Ash because he's gray and smoky, they're firefighters, it just seemed to fit. [40:52] Wait. [40:53] To be clear, they didn't name him after me. [40:56] unfortunately no but i'm sure someday someone will okay okay [41:02] Oh my god, if anyone gets two puppies and names them Ashley and Britt, I will pass out. Oh my god, we would die. I have to tell you when you're describing, my initial reaction is I reached out and kissed my microphone. But I thought it was the nose, but I know it's not. I know. Okay, go on, go on. So his previous owner had his tail docked, but they didn't dock his ears. And Megan says she's so glad they didn't because his ears are super floppy.

[41:32] is old now and bigger than ever, but he's still a little cuddle pup who thinks he's a lap dog. And she says she's never met a dog as slobbery as Ash. Everywhere he goes, he has at least a foot of slobber dangling from his mouth. He loves to play with his bestie, Grace, who belongs to Megan's mother-in-law, and he has a giant tennis ball that he absolutely cannot live without. Ugh. [41:59] Megan said that Ash is super loyal and protective already, and he's forged this really strong bond with her husband that's so sweet. [42:06] You guys. Ash made their family complete and they couldn't be any happier. I will say that it's funny how [42:15] When it's just the two of you and a dog, so much of your relationship revolves around the dog. My brother just came to live with us and we had to explain to him, like 90% of the communication between my husband and I is us pretending to talk through Charlie. So I was like, he's literally the rock that's kept us together. [42:35] Like, I'm not going there. Never mind. Go on. Keep going. You're going to cry again. Oh, but so that's pretty much the end of the story. [42:43] You know, one of our favorite questions to ask about prep-its is their favorite snacks. Love favorite snacks. [42:48] So I asked Megan, [42:50] what his favorite snack was. And she said he loves peanut butter, ob's, but one of his absolute favorite things in the world is Frosty Paws dog ice cream. Girl! Which my dog Niles and your dog Charlie also absolutely adore. I know. And Megan, we have a hack for you. I know. Megan, we are about to change your life and I'm about to change the life of all dog moms out there. I'm about to

[43:15] So we have a dog mom hack for everyone listening. Our dogs love the Frosty Paws treat, but it's about a million dollars for four tiny cups that they eat in about 30 seconds flat. So Britt had this amazing recipe that she sent me, and now I make it every single summer. And even when it's not summer, because Charlie freaking loves it so much. I buy these little plastic cups on Amazon. [43:45] on prices that day. And then [43:47] We buy... [43:48] like unflavored yogurt, just plain yogurt, which is really good for dog skin. And then we buy peanut butter and honey. You throw all of that into like a blender or mixer or food processor, get it all mushy up. You dump it into all these little containers and the ones that I get on Amazon come with a little lid and everything. So I... [44:07] put them all in the freezer, stack them up, and then I end up having what is a basically frosty paws for dirt cheap all summer. And Charlie is the happiest dog in the whole world. And I know Niles and Ross are extremely happy too, right? Yeah. And sometimes I get really creative and drop a couple blueberries in there or a dog treat. So they have an extra little like flavored ice cream. It's like mint chip or cookie dough for them. And they adore it. [44:37] paws and our dogs cannot live without it in the summer. So I encourage you guys to make some for your pups, especially Ash, especially if he loves frosty paws. Yes. And we'll put the recipe on our website. There's really no like one cup of this, two cups of that. Just like do whatever your dog likes, whatever feels good, mush it all up. I'll send you the link to these little cups. It's perfect. You guys are welcome for saving your summer. If you guys want to donate that extra money you save to our homies at Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana, you can go to Crime Tips

[45:07] dot org. We just came full circle. We will see you next week. [45:11] Thank you. [45:19] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that? [45:37] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now and I've been listening for years. [45:41] I think you'll love it too. [45:43] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.