MURDERED: Rosie Tapia

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:31] Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. And I'm Brett. And today I want to tell you about a case that represents, more than anything else, innocence shattering in the face of the worst kind of evil. [00:43] No one likes to think that a child tucked away asleep in their family's home is anything other than perfectly safe. But when one little girl vanishes from her bedroom in the middle of the night only to be found murdered, her entire community is forced to recognize that the worst really is possible. [01:04] This is the story of Rosie Tapia. [01:08] Music

[01:39] On the evening of August 12, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah, a woman named Luene Tapia is home in her basement apartment, getting ready to have a Saturday date night with her husband, Roberto. [01:51] And girl is ready for a night out. She's got two older daughters from a previous relationship, and she and Roberto have three little kids under the age of seven. [02:01] Like her daughter Rosa, who they call Rosie, is only six. And then her twins, Robert and Angelica, are four. So tonight is Louene's night. Like she's going to get dolled up. She's going to be Louene. Like, yes, not mom for a night. I totally get that. That was what karaoke was for me. Yeah. So they're going to go out dancing. And while they're gone, Louene's 18-year-old daughter, Amelia, is staying home to babysit the little ones. [02:27] After doing one final check in the mirror to make sure she looks great from every angle, Louene kisses her kids goodbye, grabs her purse, and heads out with her husband. [02:37] Nothing from my research says exactly what time they leave home, but Louene and her husband dance the night away just like they planned. And when they finally get back home to the Heartland apartments around 2.30 a.m. that morning, the first thing she does is go to peek in on her kids. Carefully, so she doesn't wake them up, Louene goes in their room even though she knew nothing was wrong. She still is just comforted to see Rosie, Angelica, and Robert all sound asleep in their room. [03:07] According to Joshua Begoode's reporting for the Salt Lake Tribune, Louie notices that the kids cracked the window in their room to help cut through the Utah summer heat. So she goes over to close it almost all of the way. But she doesn't shut it all the way because she knows if she pulls it too tightly, it will latch and that noise might wake up the kids. Oh, totally. That's the same reason I know exactly which floorboards in my house are creaky. Yeah, once they're up, they're not going back to bed. Definitely.

[03:37] Louie closes the curtains, gives each one of her kids a kiss, and then goes to bed, leaving the kids' door open like she always does in case one of them needs to use the bathroom in the middle of the night. [03:49] She gets a few hours sleep, but then, sometime between 5 and 5.30 on Sunday morning, she [03:57] Something wakes her up. [03:59] In those hazy few seconds as she's getting her bearings, this uneasy feeling settles deep in her gut. And suddenly, Louene is wide awake. She gets up to check on the kids again, but as soon as she gets into the hallway, she sees something strange. The bedroom door is now closed. [04:20] The feeling in Louene's gut gets stronger. Something feels off here, something she can't quite put her finger on, and she needs to see her babies to know that they're okay. Okay. [04:31] But when Luene opens the door to their room, instead of finding three peacefully sleeping children, she finds every parent's worst nightmare. The twins are still there, but Rosie is gone. Even worse, the window, that same window that she pulled down just a few hours earlier, is wide open. The screen's missing, and one of the curtains is partly detached and laying there on the floor with the blinds. [05:01] Louene screams for her daughter. Through the panic that's threatening to eat her alive, she starts searching all over the apartment for any sign of Rosie. Anything to show her her baby is safe. Anything to show that this isn't really happening. Her husband and her daughter Amelia are right alongside her. And they turn the apartment inside out looking for Rosie. But it is no use.

[05:31] poor Rosie missing. [05:33] Salt Lake City police hurry out to the Tapia's apartment. According to the On the Case with Paula Zahn episode about this called She's Gone, by the time they get to the scene, Luene's already called her sister for help and a group of family members are already there searching the apartment complex. Like, they've got flyers printed out already in everything. When did they have time to make flyers? Like, how long did it take for the police to even show up? So I was wondering that too, but nothing in my research indicates that [06:03] or even slow or anything. It's just that like the tapias are just super on it right from the get-go. Oh, wow. As soon as the police get to the apartment, I mean, right away, they see what Luene saw in the kid's bedroom. Now, while some of the officers talk to the terrified family, some go out to canvas the neighborhood and others focus on processing the bedroom, especially that window. [06:26] Rosie's family is pretty justifiably freaking out and insisting that she had to have been snatched and taken through that window. But police won't jump to that conclusion just yet. Are they thinking that a six-year-old could have just run away? Well, the impression I get right in those first few minutes when they get to the apartment is that it's just too early for them to make any kind of judgment call. And they have to really consider all of the possibilities.

[06:56] that missing screen laying on the ground just outside the building, they start to lean a little bit more towards the side of a potential abduction, again, even though they're not 100% sure what's happened here yet. [07:08] You see, the screen is bent, and according to ABC for Utah, the window frame itself has a pry mark on the top, as if something was used to get the screen out of the window from the outside. So everything, the screen, the frame, every single piece of the window gets dusted for prints, which are sent off for testing right away. [07:31] Other pieces of evidence soon add to law enforcement's growing theory that Rosie's been kidnapped. One of the Tapia's neighbors, who lives upstairs in the same building, tells police that they heard a scream around 4 a.m. [07:44] And another piece of evidence that they find is a shoe print. Okay, so you see, the way that her room is situated, basically whoever came in that window would have had to climb down onto a dresser. Like, they couldn't just go in the window and then hit the floor. Okay. So there just so happened to be a towel on the dresser, and on that towel, police find this, like, [08:11] perfect imprint of a shoe. [08:14] Okay. And I know we kind of talked about this. [08:17] earlier, but I guess I'm having trouble... [08:20] Reconciling that Rosie was in a room sleeping with her twin siblings, right? Yeah, both of them were in the same room as her. And I know for a fact that little kids aren't the greatest sleepers in the world. So, I mean, at least one of them would have had to have woken up and heard something, right? I mean, I would have thought, but when they're interviewed by police, both Robert and Angelica say that they didn't see or hear a single woman.

[08:45] thing. But even though the twins aren't able to help police, it turns out that someone else in the family can. [08:55] Thank you. [08:56] Cape Fear is a new series now streaming on Apple TV. This 10-episode psychological thriller is executive produced by Martin Scorsese and stars Academy Award winner Javier Bardem, Academy Award nominee Amy Adams, and Emmy nominee Patrick Wilson. When convicted murderer Max Cady is released from prison, he begins infiltrating the family of the married attorneys who helped put him behind bars. Watch Cape Fear streaming now on Apple TV. [09:24] While police are interviewing Rosie's big sister, Amelia, who, remember, she's the one that had been babysitting the kids, she tells them about this disturbing incident that happened earlier that same night before Rosie vanished. So at some point on the evening of August 12th, like before the sun went down, Amelia tells police that she walked Rosie over to the playground there at their apartment complex to, like, swing, play on the slides a little bit before bedtime. [09:52] Now, according to what I read, she like walked Rosie there, but then she went home. So she just left a six-year-old there? Yeah, I don't know, again, how far this is like from their front door. I don't know if she was going to like go back and get her. That is all I know. But here's what's interesting about this. So just a few minutes after she gets back to the apartment, and Rosie's like off playing, having a good time, or at least she thinks she is. Suddenly, someone starts knocking on their door.

[10:22] There is this guy on the other side of the door carrying Rosie. What? I do not like that one single bit. [10:31] According to KSL News, Amelia tells police that the guy said that Rosie had fallen off the slide and gotten hurt. Now, mind you, she doesn't... [10:42] know this guy. Like, this guy's a total stranger to her. And so even though Rosie or Amelia didn't know this guy, he just, like, picked up Rosie, carried her home like it was a totally normal thing to do. [10:56] And as Amelia also tells police, as he's leaving, this guy said goodbye to Rosie and used her name. But Rosie told her later that not only did she... [11:08] Not tell this man what her name was. Yeah, yeah, didn't tell him her name. But she also tells her sister that she wasn't hurt like the man claimed that she was. And then she told Amelia something that sent shivers down her spine. Rosie said that this guy wasn't at the playground with kids of his own. Instead, he was just sitting around the playground watching the children play. Oh, I do not like that. [11:38] To make things even sketchier, according to Michaela Robinson's reporting for Deseret News, he might not have been a like complete stranger. Like they didn't know him, but they might have known at least of him. Because police learned from her during this interview that this guy kind of has a reputation around this apartment complex. He's known to like hang out around the swing set with his guitar, watching kids and playing music for them.

[12:08] And as you can imagine, this has set off alarm bells for families all over the complex, including the Tapias. Totally. I mean, if some strange dude was lurking around a playground, first off, my kids aren't playing there. And second, I'm definitely calling the police because what business does a grown man have hanging out at a playground? Right? Like, I have so many questions immediately. Like, biggest of all, if they're strangers, like, again, even if you knew him from afar or you've seen him around, [12:38] How the heck does this man not only know Rosie's name, but he also knew where she lived enough to bring her to her front door? I feel like that's what, like, is hanging me up the most. Like, what? [12:48] Maybe... [12:49] Rosie's mom or sister yelled her name across the playground while he was hanging out with his guitar one time or whatever. Right. But the front door, the like bringing her straight there, I, no. He knew too much about her. [13:01] Now, luckily, even though Amelia is just totally torn up over missing her sister, she is able to describe the man to police as a thin white guy who was wearing a baseball cap and big dark sunglasses, which just like paints an even shadier picture to me of this guy coming to their door in like a full on disguise. For sure. [13:23] Police and Rosie's family spend hours that morning combing over every single inch of the apartment complex, ringing doorbells, asking questions, canvassing, putting out APBs, you name it. They are on it to bring Rosie home safe.

[13:39] And then between 10, 10.30ish in the morning on that Sunday, just a few hours after Louene woke up and found her daughter missing, the unthinkable happens. [13:50] According to another one of Joshua Begoode's pieces for the Salt Lake Tribune, a man named Gustavo is out jogging with his dog along a surplus canal for the Jordan River when he sees something strange floating in the water. [14:03] He's far enough away that at first he thinks it's a big doll. Or maybe that's just his mind trying to protect him from what he's actually seeing. Because as Gustavo gets closer, the awful truth becomes all too clear. There, floating face down in the water, is the body of a little girl. [14:25] All thoughts of his jog forgotten, Gustavo rushes to call the police. Officers get to the scene in minutes and confirm the worst. The body in the canal belongs to missing Rosie Tapia. She is still wearing the T-shirt and shorts that she wore to bed the night before. [14:45] How far was this river from where she lived? It's only like a block away from their apartment. I mean, definitely close enough that somehow if Rosie did go through that window on her own, she could have probably walked down to the river.

[15:15] Reconsider a little bit. What do you mean? Well, according to that same article I just mentioned, once Rosie's body is found, police start leaning away from this being an abduction and more towards the idea that maybe Rosie went down to the river to play or for some innocuous reasons and then like fell in and drowned. And this is all like a terrible accident. But Rosie's heartbroken family is dead. [15:40] adamant that she'd never have left the apartment on her own. But for police, there's no way to know until they get more information. So Rosie's body is taken to the medical examiners for a rushed autopsy while police stay at the canal trying to locate where exactly Rosie went into the water. [15:59] They can't pinpoint a location themselves, so around 8 that Sunday night, law enforcement brings in a team of bloodhounds to scent track for them. But even the hounds can't figure out the spot that she went in. [16:13] By the next afternoon, police get Rosie's autopsy report back from the Utah State Medical Examiner, and the results are really grim. [16:22] Just as quickly as they second-guessed themselves and wondered if this was an accident, their minds changed yet again. And they knew without a doubt that there was foul play involved. You see, according to detectives interviewed for On the Case with Paula Zahn, what they learn is that Rosie's been beaten and her body shows signs of blunt force trauma. According to the Daily Herald, despite these injuries, the report lists Rosie's cause of death as drowning.

[16:52] Even though she was found fully dressed, the autopsy shows that she was in fact sexually assaulted before she died. [16:59] So when you said that Rosie was sexually assaulted, I'm going to be honest, my mind went straight to the creep from the playground. I mean, none of what you described to me about him is normal behavior for an adult man. No, no, none of it. So does the report show like when the assault had happened? Because what if something actually happened earlier in the day? Like he assaulted her and then brought her home, panicked and then came back to make sure she couldn't say anything. [17:29] at the time still waiting on lab results to tell them whether or not the killer left anything behind that might give them a better idea of when Rosie was assaulted. But since Rosie was found in the canal, the medical examiner doesn't have a lot of hope for that. Like they're feeling that the water probably compromised most of the vital evidence. [17:49] But there is a bright spot in the investigation while they wait for any results. Police are able to locate Playground Guy. He is living right there in the same apartment complex. And after talking to him, the lead detective on Rosie's case concludes that he was just really a good Samaritan. Which... [18:12] I don't like. I'm not a cop. So if that's where the evidence is taking them, whatever. I don't know. And I mean, on the same line as like maybe he heard someone call her Rosie before. Maybe he also watched her sister walk her home one day and that's how he knew where they lived. Well, so they learn a little bit more about him, too. So according to that Deseret article I mentioned earlier, police find him and learn that he actually does have a son that he brings to the playground.

[18:42] friends with her I don't know again to me I still don't love it especially since again what hasn't changed is that when he brought her back she says she wasn't hurt like I will just never not hate this but what do I know I'm just a podcaster [18:58] So with Playground Guy off the suspect list, police start putting together lists of every single registered sex offender and the suspected sex offenders who live in their same zip code. They also keep talking to the Tapia family because even though many of the signs are pointing them outside of the home, they know that statistics don't lie when it comes to crimes against children. In the vast majority of those crimes, the perpetrator is often someone who knew the victim. [19:28] But besides the stats, there's really nothing to suggest to police that anyone in Rosie's family had anything to do with her murder. The whole family is cooperating 110 percent. There's no abuse reports against either of Rosie's parents and not even a whisper that someone in the extended family even might have been abusive toward Rosie in any way. [19:51] As news of Rosie's murder spreads around the apartment complex, the whole community is paralyzed with fear. Every parent holds their child just a little bit closer, including one mother who decides to go public with a shocking story. One that holds ramifications for everyone.

[20:16] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [20:35] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to The Deck now, wherever you get your podcasts. [20:46] A woman comes forward and tells the public that a week before Rosie was murdered, her own daughter was kidnapped and raped right there in those same apartments. This woman isn't willing to give her name, but she goes on KSL News and says that not only did her daughter endure this horrific trauma, but when she, the mom, went to the apartment's front office to tell them, like, hey, we need to call police, [21:16] that the property manager told her to keep the whole thing quiet. [21:21] I'm sorry, what? I mean, I don't know. Please tell me that she flipped every single table and desk in that office and called the police anyway because... [21:31] Like hell should she be listening to this person telling her not to call the police? Same. I don't know... [21:41] you know, I don't know what interaction happened. I don't know what unfolded after. I don't know if she did go on to call police. I don't know any of the things. She doesn't say on air.

[21:49] But things get even more wild because then in that same news segment, another parent comes forward and says that her daughter was almost abducted last year. What? What? [22:01] The police are rattled because even though I wasn't able to find anything to tell me whether or not either of those incidents ever do get reported properly and investigated, everything about this just like screams connection, right? Well, and not even connection. We're also talking about escalation. You know, a year ago, there was an attempted abduction. Then there was an abduction and a rape. And now Rosie's been abducted, raped, and murdered. Like, these aren't stair steps. Right. [22:31] I mean, it is a horrifying possibility, but it has to be looked into. And I have to think that police are considering every single possibility as they're investigating Rosie's murder. [22:42] And this, to me, is one of those cases where we really see police acting not just as law enforcers and crime solvers, but also really as community liaisons, too. Because as part of their investigation, they're meeting with residents of the apartment complex to offer safety advice and to come up with a neighborhood watch plan to keep everyone's kids safe. [23:12] the property managers, like they hired an armed guard for nighttime security. The unthinkable happens again. Another little girl right there in the same complex vanishes with eerie similarities to Rosie. According to Colleen Diskin's reporting for the Salt Lake Tribune, on August 23rd, this is just 10 days after Rosie's murder,

[23:42] after waking up and finding Yolanda wasn't in her bed. [23:46] I'm sorry, what is going on at these apartments? I know, right? So police start the search for Yolanda right away with, I mean, the horror of Rosie's murder still fresh and at the forefront of their minds. And fearing that they could be up against a serial predator. The Salt Lake Police Department puts up a $3,000 reward and the person who owns the apartment complex puts in $10,000 of their own money for any information leading to an arrest and conviction of Rosie's killer. [24:16] all in hopes that the cash reward might inspire someone to come forward. [24:20] Now, within a couple of days, this ends very differently. Police are able to breathe a huge sigh of relief when they get a phone call from Yolanda's mom. It turns out that she had just come to pick up her daughter and didn't bother to tell anyone. So Yolanda actually was safe, totally fine, panic over. [24:44] But closing one case doesn't change the fact that almost two weeks have passed since Rosie was found murdered and police are no closer to finding her killer. [24:54] They keep investigating through the rest of August and into September. And while they do uncover a couple of leads during this time period, like a utility truck that was spotted in a parking lot and a vagrant living in a field near the apartment complex, none of those things provides answers to this mystery.

[25:13] Fearing their case is starting to cool off by the middle of September, the Salt Lake City police decide to call in the FBI for help. [25:21] According to more of Joshua B. Goode's reporting for the Salt Lake Tribune, the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit wants to create a profile of Rosie's killer. They're also studying the last day of Rosie's life, going over that fateful Saturday minute by minute to see who she was with. How did they seem? I mean, heck, what color shirt were they wearing? [25:51] Okay. [26:06] Or it could be from someone with a much deadlier connection. There's just no way to say one way or the other without digging deeper. And so even things like this, this is what the investigators are always digging deeper into. The investigation into her murder continues all through the fall into the winter with, again, little movement. [26:27] The Tapia family endures their first Christmas without Rosie, and by the time the one-year anniversary of her murder rolls around in August of 96, the case is just wild. [26:38] ice cold. [26:40] Police have no new leads, no suspects, no persons of interest, and no new evidence. And while the FBI's now got a profile that they believe matches Rosie's killer, law enforcement is no closer to actually bringing this killer to justice. Or even finding them. Right. And here's the thing is like the profile itself has never been made public. But the Salt Lake Tribune talked to a clinical psychologist who works with sex offenders at the Utah State Prison.

[27:10] read me what he has to say about Rosie's killer. [27:13] So this is from Dr. Steve Kramer, and he says this person is, quote, a very impulsive person, one who does the first thing that comes into his head without thinking of the consequences. [27:25] He can't even initiate a conversation. It's probably a withdrawn, loner-type person. [27:30] End quote. [27:31] Rosie's case stays cold all the way until the spring of 1997, about a year and a half after Rosie's murder. [27:41] Out of nowhere, the Salt Lake police get a call from across the country, over 2,000 miles away in Charlotte, North Carolina. Yeah. [27:51] According to John Hechinger and Gary L. Wright's reporting for the Charlotte Observer, Charlotte police just recently arrested this guy named John Brewer Eustace for climbing through an apartment window to kidnap and sexually assault a toddler there in North Carolina. Oh my God. And based on John's history, they think he might have had several other victims, including Rosie Tapia. [28:21] with climbing in a window, a very young child. I mean, really similar, right? But there are creeps everywhere. Does he have any ties back to Utah? Well, according to the same article, John's actually from California originally, and I guess lived in Las Vegas for some time. So like I did some quick like Google mapping, and Las Vegas is about...

[28:40] like, say, six hours away from Salt Lake City. So it's drivable. OK, but it's kind of a stretch, if you ask me. I agree. But let me tell you about the other crimes that John's been investigated for, one being in Las Vegas in 1990 and one in Reno in 94. So both are unsolved murders of little girls right around Rosie's age. Both girls were kidnapped from their apartments. [29:10] case the girl was snatched from her bedroom after someone removed the screen from her ground floor bedroom [29:18] window. So [29:20] I mean, suddenly that possible connection takes on a whole new light, right? Yeah... [29:24] So the Salt Lake City police exchange all their information with the law enforcement officials in North Carolina. But by August of 97, Rosie's case is right back to being cold. And while John's eventually sentenced to 80 years in prison without parole for what he did in North Carolina, he's actually never charged with any crime related to Rosie's murder. [29:54] but it turns out to be a dead end as well. So this is seven long, agonizing years that go by with Rosie's case at a standstill. [30:06] Rumors swirl that maybe Rosie's half-sister Amelia might have had like a party when she was babysitting, maybe like one of her guests killed Rosie, but she has always denied it and police don't find anything to show that she's lying.

[30:21] Even as the years go by, police still follow up on information as they get it. And Rosie's mom, Louie, calls detectives every few weeks for updates. But every few weeks, they have nothing new to tell her. That is, until 2004, when police make the announcement that the Tapia family has been praying for her. [30:45] - For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [31:04] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now. [31:11] wherever you get your podcasts. [31:14] On May 7th, 2004, almost nine years after Rosie was found dead, police announce they've finally got a person of interest in her murder. [31:27] Who is it? [31:28] Well, since the investigation is ongoing, police are keeping that pretty close to the chest and they don't want to make it public yet. [31:37] What they will say, though, and as Matt Canham wrote in the Salt Lake Tribune, is how they got to this person. [31:44] And just like with John Brewer Eustace, it comes down to police officers actually communicating with each other. You see, police in Midvale, Utah, which is part of the Salt Lake City metro area, have a person who's been in jail since 2003 for inappropriate sexual contact with a minor.

[32:04] And while talking to this guy, he's provided some new evidence, including evidence. [32:10] physical. [32:10] evidence. Just like with his name, though, police aren't about to reveal anything about what this evidence is publicly until they're ready. So I can't even tell you what exactly that means. What I do know, though, is that. [32:25] this lead dries up. And the case gradually goes back to being cold. [32:31] Six more years go by. That's six more agonizing years of holidays and birthdays with no rosy, no closure, until 2010, when police return to an old figure who may hold the key to what really happened that night. The creepy Good Samaritan himself, playground guy. [33:01] comes back onto the radar years down the line. So many times. But here's the problem. There seems to be some confusion around whether or not that initial conversation with Playground Guy ever actually happened. [33:19] What do you mean? It may have never actually happened. Yeah. So according to the Salt Lake Tribune, back in 1995, the lead detective working the case told the media that he did talk to Playground Guy. But fast forward now in 2010, police don't know his name. They don't know anything about him. And there seems to be some doubt around if he really was even looked into.

[33:49] you that he played guitar for like the kids in the neighborhood or whatever? Yeah. Well, in the Deseret piece I mentioned earlier, now police aren't even sure that the man who plays guitar is the same person as Playground Guy who brought her home. [34:04] Wait, so instead of it being playground guitar guy... [34:08] It could be two separate guys. Playground guy and guitar guy. Yeah. Two completely different people. And we think that maybe they talked to someone, but did they talk to playground guy? Did they talk to guitar guy? The fact that there is no report to even, like, reference and see what did or did not happen in 95 is, like— [34:29] astonishing to me. Yeah, I mean, you would think that there would be case notes on every interview that they do, even if it's just a line that says, spoke to XYZ person. [34:40] Doesn't know anything. And this is his name. Yeah, like if you ever want to circle back around, this is how we found the guy. This is... Yeah, you... [34:47] Like, I'm like... Deep breaths. This needs to be in a binder somewhere is my first thought. Like, where's the binder? Someone has the binder, right? Right. [34:54] Well, whatever happened in 1995, whether guitar man and playground guy are the same person and, you know, if police really did interview one of them, both of them or not. Now law enforcement turned to the public for help to try and put a real name to playground guy who brought Rosie home. And one of the first things they do is make a composite sketch of him. Here, Brett, I'm going to actually send you what they have.

[35:22] Okay, so I know we say this all the time, but this is honestly the least helpful sketch in the world. Well, it's like back when I talked about him coming to the door in like a full-on disguise, that's what it looks like, right? Yeah, like not only does this guy have a hat on, so like no hair, no hair texture, no hairline, nothing. He has like the biggest sunglasses I've ever seen. [35:41] ever seen. Like, it literally looks like the sticker I used to put on Facebook over my son's face before we had officially adopted him. Like, it's giant and almost cartoonish. That's what I'm saying. Like, if this guy came to my door and was like, [35:54] big, like, 2002, the Kardashian sunglasses and a hat, and was like, here's your child back that I've never met, I'd be like, no. It's almost like wearing, like, the, like, the disguise glasses with the fake nose and the mustache. Like, that's how... [36:07] comical this looks. And [36:10] unsurprisingly the sketch doesn't jog any memories like police had hoped it would and the years keep passing and they're left with this awful feeling that the truth is just around the corner if they can just get this one name maybe they can get closer to Rosie's killer [36:30] Now, one development that happens is Rosie's brother, Robert. Now, he was one of the twins that had been asleep in the room the night Rosie was taken. He tells police that he remembers seeing a strange man in their bedroom that night. [36:45] Robert says the man had a beard and told him to go back to sleep. But, I mean, as you can imagine, adding a beard to that sketch doesn't really do much. It literally takes less of his face away. Yeah, and so he just stays this mystery figure for years and years and years.

[37:02] In January of 2019, with huge advances in DNA technology being made all the time, police decide to re-examine that Barbie doll left at Rosie's grave back in 1995. Which, by the way, her family still has to this day. I mean, I told you, no lead was too small for them. And hopefully, their work in preserving this piece of evidence will pay off. [37:31] So I like how the family is saving the Barbie, like... Preserving evidence. Potential evidence. Yeah. But the police can't even decide or remember or figure out if they talk to the walking embodiment of stranger danger. Yeah. But with the doll, their hope is that maybe new methods could like pull traces of DNA evidence that maybe more traditional methods back then like couldn't get to. Like people are doing MVAC testing, all of this stuff. [38:01] According to KUTV News, police also apparently have two very specific reasons for wanting to test the Barbie. Okay. [38:11] Okay, like what? [38:13] well, you're going to hate me because I can't tell you. Because again, police, just like they did back in 2004, they're not making that information public. They're not telling us why it's significant. Just that [38:24] It is. [38:25] So then, literally a week after police announced that they're testing this Barbie doll, Rosie's case takes an unexpected swing. And that's how it goes sometimes, right? Like, we've seen this before, how a case will just be, like, North Pole cold for years. And then everything kind of happens all at once. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

[38:45] So according to ABC4 Utah, this anonymous guy comes forward to tell his story about what he saw the night Rosie was killed. He says he was outside his house near the canal where Rosie was found when he saw a white pickup truck drive away. As the truck left, this man says he saw someone walking down the sidewalk from the canal coming towards him. [39:15] boy wearing what he thought were two-toned jeans, like they were light on the top and then dark from the knees down. But once this boy got within about three feet of him, the man realized that his jeans weren't actually two different colors. The dark parts were soaking wet. [39:31] wet as if this boy had been standing in the water. Oh my God, why didn't this guy come forward right away? He says he tried. In that same ABC4 Utah segment, he alleges that police wouldn't talk to him back in 1995. He claims that when he finally met with them in 98, police tried to make a composite out of photos of older looking guys, not the teenager that he saw on the canal, and [40:01] the person being younger. Okay, so I guess I have a question. How old was a playground guy? Like... [40:07] If he was younger, that could be why the police were so willing to be like, oh, yeah, like he's just a kid instead of taking him seriously. Well, Dennis Romboy reported for Deseret News that Playground Guy was thought to be about 30-ish years old back in 95. And remember, Rosie's sister Amelia told police that he was white, while this teenager with the wet pants was said to have been Hispanic. But I think you're kind of right because I do think the teenager's age could have been a factor.

[40:37] cultural climate in the mid to late 90s, like the stigma around child sexual abuse. I mean, it was so strong. And like you add to that the potential abuser also being very young. Yeah. I mean, it could just be too much for the police to try to get their heads around at that time. Yeah. Right. But here's the thing I keep coming back to. I don't think we're talking about the same person. That witness saw a truck. The truck was leaving the canal when he saw this [41:07] to have been driving [41:09] And if they're connected to this kid or to Rosie's murder or both, then police need to be looking for two people, not just one. [41:16] So regardless of what police did or didn't do in the late 90s, they're active now, like super active. [41:23] active. But what's so interesting to me is that they don't actually meet with this witness to finally make a composite sketch. Instead, ABC4 Utah kind of takes the lead on this in a series of reports that starts airing in the spring of 2019. And after getting wind of Rosie's case, a former cop who's now a professional sketch artist volunteers to do it. And finally, [41:53] Here, I'm going to show you the side-by-side with Playground Guy and then with this new sketch, and you can just tell me what you think. Again, I don't really think that they're the same person. [42:02] So, I mean, I will say they definitely have kind of long faces, maybe high, high-ish cheekbones. But other than that, it's honestly even hard to compare them because the first sketch has that hat, those glasses. Straight up disguise. Yeah, the disguise. Like, it's...

[42:18] Again, like, I can talk about face shape until I'm blue in the face, but that's really all you have to go off of to compare these two. So police take the sketch to review it and formally release it to the public in May 2019. And they're also going back to look at old evidence with new eyes. [42:35] All of the evidence from Rosie's autopsy is sent to the state crime lab to be re-examined. And get this. [42:42] They find DNA. According to On the Case with Paula Zahn, small amounts of DNA are recovered from underneath Rosie's fingernails. So as you can imagine, police are ecstatic. [42:57] Yeah, but I guess I'm kind of torn because, like, as a crime junkie, anytime there's DNA, that is huge. But as a mom, that's devastating. Like, especially knowing it was under her fingernails, that means that Rosie fought. And she's six. She fought as hard as she could to protect herself, and it wasn't enough. [43:17] Yeah. Well, and unfortunately, it really wasn't enough because remember how I told you a lot of the evidence was compromised because of the canal water? Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. So they're ecstatic to get this DNA. But unfortunately, even what they're able to recover, once they're able to process it, it doesn't meet the standards to be entered into the CODIS database. Yeah. [43:41] And so even though police are so, so sure that Rosie's killer is probably already in there, they can't enter the sample to compare and see.

[43:51] But not being able to get it into CODIS doesn't rule out everything. Like, for example, I mean, it is possible that maybe forensic genealogy could be used down the line. But I mean, that type of testing is whoa expensive. And if it's being used in Rosie's case, that information hasn't been made public yet. Right. [44:10] While they're trying to find a workaround for the money issue, police keep investigating all throughout the rest of 2019 into 2020. And in January of 2020, something happened. [44:22] Whoa happens. ABC for Utah reported that playground guy finally has a name. OK, this was like, again, mind you, what? [44:34] 18 months ago. [44:35] Not even. [44:36] Okay, so what is it? Let's hear it. [44:38] They don't [44:39] tell us. What? We don't know it. They don't say anything else about him. Just that they've finally got a name. We don't know how they got to him. [44:51] Nothing. [44:52] The next big break we get, almost 25 years after Rosie's death, someone else decides it's time to come forward. Right. [45:02] So this person, this guy named Danny Woodland, tells reporters from ABC4 Utah something disturbingly similar to what the anonymous witness said. That he wasn't so much waiting to come forward as police just never questioned him back in the day. Even though in 1995, his girlfriend was Rosie's half-sister, Amelia. Like, can you just piece that together for a second? Like, her boyfriend.

[45:32] with the family. It's someone that you have to talk to. It's someone that, I mean, may have even been there that day looking for her. Didn't even question it. Didn't even think about it. Oh my god. And what he tells police is that he used to sneak in and out of the window, like the very window, to go visit her back when Amelia was using the bedroom Rosie was snatched from. So literally the same window she was taken from, he used to come in and out of. Yes. You are kidding me. And he's [46:02] Oh my god. [46:17] ABC for Utah gets the witness who helped make the second composite sketch to look at some photos to see if any of them resemble the teenager that they saw. And wouldn't you know it, this witness picks out Danny's friend. Again, whatever the reason police did or didn't act on talking to and finding Danny back then, they're paying attention now and working with the Tapia's private investigator. Okay. [46:42] To this day, though, [46:43] 2021, no one has been arrested and no suspects have been publicly named. [46:52] Okay, so there seems to be a recurring theme here in this case with the police, and I don't want to say dropping the ball. [47:00] But also... Kind of dropping the ball. They're really freaking dropping the ball on this. Like, what the heck? I would be...

[47:07] raging, like so pissed if I was Rosie's family. Well, and they are pissed, as they should be. Over a quarter of a century after Rosie was so brutally murdered, the Tapias feel as if law enforcement has failed them. And they have failed them. [47:23] Even though investigators are looking at these ignored leads now, I still don't think they have everything buttoned up. Because her mom, Louene, had to find out about the DNA evidence, not privately from police. But get this, she found out that there was DNA the same way the rest of the country did. She found out by watching on the case with Paula Zahn. [47:49] No. Yes. So not like a private phone call. Hey, this is going to come out. Hey, we discovered this. And then also, hey, this is going to come out on Paul is on. [48:00] Just by, oh my God, I can, I cannot imagine. Yeah. So again, this is like, I think they've had a horrible experience and did not even get updates like on what's going on with the investigation. It's great that they're moving it forward, but you can't even pick up the phone and keep them in the loop. Seriously. [48:18] Now, Rosie's sister, Amelia, passed away from natural causes a few months before the 25th anniversary of her death in August 2020. And to the end, she carried the burden of Rosie's grief with her always asking herself what she could have done differently to save her sister's life. [48:34] She always denied ever having a party that night, and the family believes her.

[48:39] She died before she could see the birth of the Rosie Tapia Identification Project, or RTIP, which is a nonprofit dedicated to helping law enforcement in the Intermountain region cover the costs of DNA testing and genetic genealogy. [48:53] Amelia's death at such a young age is another devastating blow to a family that has already suffered so much. Even in her worst moments, though, her mom, Luen Tapia, still to this day, holds out hope that the truth, buried for so long in the darkness, will one day see the light. And that Rosie will finally see the justice she so dearly deserves. [49:23] please call the Salt Lake City Police Department at [redacted phone]. [49:31] you can find all of our source material for this episode on our website crimejunkiepodcast.com and be sure to follow us on instagram at crimejunkiepodcast we'll be back next week with a brand new episode

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