CONSPIRACY: Bardstown, Kentucky

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] Hi, Crime Junkies. Before we get into our episode, I have two really special announcements that I think you're going to want to hear. The first is that everyone keeps letting Britt and I know that you want more content. You wish Crime Junkie was a daily show. I wish it was too, but we have full-time jobs and can't make that happen. So instead, what we've done is we have partnered with Audible to give you guys some more great content. [01:00] on their platform. It's called the West Cork, and you can get it for free for a limited time if you go to audibletrial.com slash crimejunkie. That's A-U-D-I-B-L-E trial.com. [01:16] www.audibletrial.com slash crimejunkie and look for West Cork, two words. And it is a three-year investigation into an unsolved case that is probably the best thing I have heard since Serial. And anyone who's into true crime is going to love this. So make sure you go to Audible, www.audibletrial.com slash crimejunkie and listen there.

[01:37] Our second announcement is [01:40] We are hearing you guys. You guys love puppets. A girl named Kristen started a thread in our Facebook discussion group, and it is all pictures of our listeners' dogs, and we are obsessed. So what we decided is at the end of every episode, starting with this episode, we are going to feature a puppet of the week where we talk about one of our listeners' puppets, how they were adopted, how they're best friends now. [02:10] well. So make sure to stay tuned after if you love preppets and want to hear a short story about a great adoption. [02:16] *music* [02:47] That was a lot of talking. So with that said, I think we should just jump into the episode. In this episode... [02:53] was actually a listener suggestion from... Oh, great. Yeah, I got it on Instagram from either Kaylee or Callie, is how you say your name. And I'm so torn because on the one side, like, thank you so much. It's really hard for me to pick cases because I want to make sure that I'm doing something that's like engaging, like great content that you guys are going to like, something that hasn't been done a thousand times before. So it's really hard for me to pick stuff that I think you guys are going to like. So I love when you give me suggestions.

[03:23] On the other hand, I had no idea what like a minefield I was stepping into with this case that she suggested. So she suggested that I do the case of Crystal Rogers, who went missing back in 2016. [03:40] And it's presented to me as a missing person case. And when I read online, everyone says it's the Crystal Rogers case. I'm going to call it the Bardstown Conspiracy. And to try and best explain this huge story to you, [03:54] What I need to do is I'm going to tell you the story of five murders or disappearances. [04:00] Oh my God. Within five, within three very distinct and separate stories. And at the end, I'll talk to you a little bit about how they all fit together. [04:11] Before I jump in, I just need you to know a little bit about Bardstown, Kentucky. It's a quiet Midwest town. Nothing bad happens there. It's even been on like lists of [04:21] greatest places to live or best places to visit. So it's super home town-y, like off the Bourbon Trail, [04:29] Like quaint little middle of nowhere beautiful town. So things start getting weird in Bardstown in May of 2013. There's a police officer named Jason Ellis. And he's married to Amy Ellis. And they have two kids together, Hunter and Parker. [04:47] Amy works during the days as a substitute teacher and Jason works at night as a police officer. He's played semi-professional baseball for a long time, but once they had a family, he really wanted to kind of be in one place, have a steady gig so he could be with his wife and kids and be an engaged dad. So he switched careers. And Jason is like...

[05:08] you know, one of us, because he was actually a canine officer. And he had a partner who was half husky, half shepherd named Figo, whose pictures I will obviously post [05:21] everywhere. He's the cutest puppet. Yeah that sounds exactly like Charlie honestly. Yeah so he's so Charlie's lab Shepard Husky so he didn't have the lab but yeah a lot of what Charlie is. [05:32] So he's got Figo, his partner, and in late May, [05:37] His partner is actually left at home because his canine-equipped cruiser is in the shop getting repainted. So he's working solo. And his normal routine is to patrol. And at about 2 a.m., he'll dispatch in to call off duty. And he's usually home by 2.30. He takes the same route almost every single day. He gets on the Bluegrass Parkway and gets off on exit 34. [06:07] card. [06:08] So cute. [06:10] So on May 24th, Jason starts a normal shift. He makes a couple of traffic stops. He stops by his kid's t-ball game. And actually, while he's at the t-ball game, he gets a call about a domestic disturbance. So he ends up going there, writing a ticket, and he tries to return to the t-ball game within like 30 minutes, but it's already ended. So he just goes back into his car, goes back on duty. That evening, he responds to a call about a drunken disorderly.

[06:40] one arm and a head wound and he's like a hot mess causing a ruckus in town. So one one arm and a head wound is the worst. My Monday morning. So Jason gets him to the hospital. And while he's there, this guy just like threatens Jason. He hates his guts. He hates his guts. [06:59] Probably for no reason other than he's drunk and has one arm. Who knows? But this guy's totally out of it. And he gets checked out at the hospital. Jason actually ends up taking him from the hospital to the county jail and books him. And Jason at this point is still acting totally normal. It's not weird for a police officer to get threatened by somebody who they're arresting. Like not abnormal at all. Totally. And so he's joking with the woman at the intake. Seems like everything's fine. He's in a good mood. And about this time is 2 a.m., [07:27] And Jason calls off for the last [07:29] Time. [07:30] So he gets in his car, calls off [07:34] his shift, and he gets on the Bluegrass Parkway and takes exit 34. And from this point, when he gets off on exit 34, he's only a couple of minutes from home. [07:46] Amen. [07:46] As he's exiting the freeway, [07:49] he spots something strange in the middle of the road. And he's a good guy. And even though he's off duty, he's truly a good cop deep down. And he's not going to leave something in the middle of the road that could potentially cause an accident at 2.30 in the morning. So he parks his cruiser... [08:05] And he... [08:06] like goes to the middle of the road and he realizes that it's this pile of branches and tree limbs.

[08:13] But what Jason doesn't realize is that these branches didn't get there by accident. [08:19] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. [08:38] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now. [08:45] wherever you get your podcasts. [08:49] As he grabs a bundle of the branches, shots start ringing out, and he's hit multiple times in the chest and the abdomen, the arm, and his head. And he is dead within minutes. And shortly after Jason Ellis is hit, a group of citizens actually come upon his body. There's a farmer named Chad who actually works at a distillery at night, and he had just gotten off of work. [09:19] parents who were using their teenage son as like an uber driver coming home and [09:24] And Chad comes across the body and he actually tells the woman like go in his police cruiser, get his radio and call in man down. [09:34] Oh my god. Hello? Hello? [09:38] *BEEP* [09:38] Officer down, Officer down, Bluefield Road. [09:43] Station.

[09:47] Officer Daniel. You need to give us a location. Old Bluefield Road by the Y. [10:00] There's been a trailing or something. Officer down, officer down, please emergency. [10:05] Yes sir, hey, this is Chad Monroe. I know Mike Clark personally. I mean, I can tell him exactly where I'm at. We're on the BG Parkway. We're coming off, we're coming from Barstown, getting off on the Bluefield-Springfield exit. [10:24] *pick* [10:25] Is this going to be a car accident? Is there another vehicle involved? Or is it just one vehicle versus a tree or what? [10:30] I've come home from Heaven Hill Distillery. I've just got off work and there was a police car is sitting in the middle of the road with the lights on and we didn't know what it was. It's a tree across the road and I didn't know what it was and I got out and I went up there and looked and it's him. I believe somebody's hit him. [10:51] . [10:53] Okay, can you tell if he is breathing? [10:55] No sir, he is not breathing. [10:58] Body temperature is cold. [11:02] Dispatch, have you already got EMS toned out that way? That's correct, we've got EMS started. [11:08] 4446 on same. 4446 on same. [11:13] Officer Ellis was dead at the scene and his investigation actually went cold very quickly. It was clear that he was ambushed and he was shot with two kinds of ammunition, which could mean multiple attackers, but it was a gunshot with like ammunition that's normally used to hunt small game. So it was super weird. It's not even like...

[11:37] a normal gun or rifle or whatever. So to this day, they haven't named anyone as suspects in the case. And the family is just begging for answers. [11:49] And can I tell you something awful? [11:51] Of course. Do you have tissue? I don't but I'm gonna brace myself. Okay, so I was in tears reading this so [11:59] Ellis was buried near his home where his widow and sons live. [12:03] And his canine partner, Figo, attended the funeral. Oh, wait. Maybe you should stop. I can't. I'm telling you. Figo attended the funeral. He laid his paw on top of the flag-draped casket. [12:17] Oh my god. Amid more than 1,000 law enforcement officers from across Kentucky. And the Bartso Police Department actually retired Figo after this. And... [12:27] Good. And he now lives with the Ellis widow and their two boys. I couldn't. [12:33] This might be the first episode where I cry. There is nothing that makes me weep like a... [12:40] Like a funeral where there's a... Like a police dog. Oh my God. Either a funeral where there's a service dog who you just know they miss their best friend. Or vice versa. I've seen dog funerals where they're... [12:51] being put down and they get like the same funeral. I think I said 2-1-1 time where they were like, this dog was like a police dog for 15 years and then he got really bad cancer and we tried everything and yeah. [13:06] there's one specific video I'm putting this on the website so everyone can cry with us because Eric came home one night my husband and I was in bed weeping and

[13:15] I'm on the microphone weeping right now, like, talking about these things. He almost made me go see a therapist over this. Like, it was bad. So that is the story of Jason Ellis. Literally after that, there is no new information. It has not gone anywhere. We know he was ambushed. He was obviously set up. [13:35] But there are no answers. So the next story I'm going to tell you [13:39] is of Kathy and Samantha, Netherland. Okay. Are you ready? [13:46] *sniff* [13:47] I think so. There's no more, no more puppets, so... [13:50] We can move on. No more problems. We can move on. Be strong. So they also live in Bardstown, Kentucky. And their story takes place in April of 2014, about one year after Jason Ellis was killed. Kathy was 48 years old and a special education teacher. And she was a mother to two daughters, Holly and Samantha. Kathy and her girls had actually just lost their dad to cancer eight months before this. So it was just the three of them now. [14:20] college that just left 16 year old Samantha and her mom Kathy in the home [14:26] Samantha was like crazy smart. She had everything going for her. She had actually gotten into a new school and was planning on transferring for like, I don't even know, I didn't look deep into this, but like some super smart school for some super smart thing. The girl was a genius. But she was also like every other girl. She was like loving life. She was just about to go to her first prom and she was like texting her sister pictures of her prom dress that she had found.

[14:50] And a few days after these text messages specifically, Samantha and Holly's aunt actually calls Holly and asks if she's heard from either one of them because she hasn't been able to get a hold of Kathy or Samantha for a while. [15:04] When she finds out that Holly hasn't heard from them either, and she hasn't gotten a hold of them, she goes over with her dad. And when Samantha's grandfather goes into the house, he finds that Samantha and Kathy are both dead. [15:17] Kathy had been shot multiple times and Samantha had actually been beaten to death over the head. And then both women had their throats cut. [15:28] - They didn't say who died first. [15:31] If they could even tell that or they may have been so close together they don't know. But there was nothing missing from the home. [15:38] Their keys, their purses, electronics, everything was still there with him. [15:44] absolutely nothing was taken so whatever the motive was for this it was just to kill these women somehow that seems so much worse like they were just in it to kill right it's not even like they needed something or you know what i mean like [15:59] To kill just to kill. I don't know why that's worse like I agree with you, but it feels just so much worse and [16:05] In this case, they don't even know if there was one or two assailants or what the motive was. They both died so differently. You would almost think that Samantha was the target since hers was so much more violent than [16:19] than her mother's?

[16:20] But... [16:21] Like, who would have... And her mother's was, like, a result... [16:26] Yeah, or like to just to like get her out of the way or who knows. But like what would the motive have been to like go after Samantha? [16:35] She was this young girl, smart in school. Like, she wasn't, like, out causing trouble. She didn't have any enemies. The only thing that cops had to go on was they pulled some surveillance video from stores in the area around the time of the crime. And I don't know how they zeroed in on this, but they found a... [16:55] Black [16:56] Chevy Impala that they feel pretty confident either had something to do with the crime or saw the crime, but they're pretty sure that whoever was driving that. [17:07] was involved in some way. But it's just like literally this drive by still [17:13] So you can see that it's a black sedan, but it's so fuzzy and blurry. You can't even tell if there's one person in the car, if there's two people in the car. So forget trying to decide, like, who actually is in the car if you can't even tell how many people are in there. And there was no picture of the license plate, nothing like that. They put this picture out everywhere begging for people to come forward. But, I mean, they basically said it's something like a... [17:37] make and model is the Chevy Impala sometime between like 2003 and 2012. So it's this huge window and everyone in the area says like this is such a common car like everyone's driving this around. Yeah definitely. So they weren't able to get anything from that.

[17:52] And like more sad funeral stuff. It's not about dogs, but still so tragic. They ended up burying Samantha in her prom dress because they felt that she should at least be able to wear it once. [18:04] Thank you. [18:05] Oh my god. I know, I know. And so... I'm thinking of my prom dress right now. [18:10] What are you talking about? You were homeschooled. [18:13] I went to prom with Justin. [18:16] Once, his senior year, I had a prom dress. It's still so sad. So to this day, again, they have nothing. They've [18:24] All they have is this picture of like a drive by Impala [18:27] and nothing else, like no evidence from the crime scene. [18:31] No motive. [18:33] And the family is just left with so many questions. [18:38] All right. So are you ready to move on to our third and final case before we kind of piecemeal this together? [18:44] I don't know. I still have so many questions. I guess just keep going. So this is the one of Crystal Rogers who I think is most often how people find out about this rabbit hole. Her name has been tied to this whole conspiracy the most because I think her parents worked really hard to keep her story in the media. And also hers is the most recent. So people... [19:07] find it faster, I think. Okay. Crystal is 35 year old mother of five. And in 2016, she's living with her boyfriend, Brooks Houck. [19:18] Brooks is the father of Crystal's youngest who's about two years old two and a half years old in 2016. On July 5th of 2016 the family of Crystal realizes that they can't get in touch with her. They haven't heard from her in a little while and when they reach out to Brooks he says that he hasn't seen her since July 3rd.

[19:41] And he tells them that on July 3rd, late in the evening, he and Crystal were home together. [19:46] And he decided to go to bed and she stayed up to play games on her phone. I'm assuming Candy Crush, but can't confirm this. It's just what I play when I'm up late at night. But he says when he wakes up that she's not there and... [19:58] and he doesn't think anything of it or try to contact her. [20:01] And the family's like, "Red flag, red flag." [20:03] This is strange as hell. Call the police. So the family reports her missing on the 5th. And literally shortly after they make the missing persons call, they actually come across her car and, [20:15] and they call back the police to report that they found her car. It was abandoned at mile 14 on the Bluegrass Parkway. [20:23] which is the same freeway that Officer Ellis drove all the time. So again, we're talking the same small town, same short distance. The car had a flat tire, which police later found out was from a rusty nail that was still in the tire. And whoever left the car there had driven it flat for at least a little bit of ways because there was evidence that the rim had been driven on. So most likely the flat wasn't staged. It was something that happened to whoever was driving the car unexpectedly. [20:54] Right. The car was unlocked... [20:56] with the keys still in the ignition, [20:59] And her purse and uncharged cell phone were found inside the vehicle. So immediately they're suspecting foul play. She has nothing with her. She doesn't have her phone. She doesn't have her keys. Her car is in the middle of the freeway. [21:10] Something's wrong. Family says that even if Crystal was driving, like beyond all that stuff being a red flag, she would have never pulled the car over on her.

[21:20] on the side of the road. Her dad said that she'd gotten flats before and she would always get off on an exit just because it was way less dangerous. So they're like, okay, let's say Crystal was in this car. Like, we don't even believe that she was in [21:32] in it and had an accident and something happened to her there because we don't believe she would have pulled over here. For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. Ashley Flowers [21:57] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now. [22:04] wherever you get your podcasts. [22:07] as people start investigating more it gets even fishier police had a press conference and said that brooks was totally cooperating but the family was so suspicious of him his story that he told family and police about why he wasn't concerned when she was gone was that they had a air quotes stressed relationship with a lot of people who were in the house and were in the house [22:30] And the way she dealt with that was by going to her cousin's house to spend the night. And he actually was on our favorite person, Nancy Grace. And, like, Nancy, of course, like, thinks always the boyfriend did it. And so she's, like, interrogating him. And she's like, well, why didn't you report her missing? And he's like, you know what, Nancy? I'm so glad you asked me that. Like, just a total weirdo. And so he says they have a stress relationship. It's totally normal for her to just, like, up and leave and go to her cousin's to spend the night.

[22:59] Well, obviously, they fact-checked this with the cousin, and she's like, you know what? In the three-plus years that they had been together, she came to my house one time to stay the night. And that one time… [23:11] she brought her baby with her. [23:14] And that was the other huge red flag for the family. They said like, okay, she may have stayed the night somewhere else, but even the one time she did that or even if she was going to do it again, she always took her two-year-old with her and she definitely wouldn't leave her two-year-old alone. She would have taken her baby with her. [23:33] The family pointed out that Brooks didn't participate in any searches for her either, but he said that all of his search efforts were done behind the scenes with law enforcement. Because wouldn't you know it, his brother was actually a police officer. [23:52] Oh, okay. So this is when police start to become more and more suspicious of Brooks. And they ask him to take a polygraph and his results come back inconclusive. They also do an interview with him for two hours. And during this police interview, there's a part where he's like about to do a written statement. It's just him and Lieutenant Snow in this room. And his phone starts ringing. [24:18] He asks if he can take the call. The detective says, yeah, sure. And he picks up the phone and it's a super weird conversation. It feels really staged. And it's him just being like, yeah, I'm just here at the police station.

[24:34] I'm just about to give them a statement. [24:36] Like you can hear someone else talking and then he's like, well, you know, I want to cooperate as best I can because I'm innocent and I have nothing to hide. Like it's very staged, terrible acting. [24:56] Well, okay, so I guess where I go from here... [25:00] Um... [25:01] we're still getting video [25:03] from different places along that route. [25:06] Can I get the... Sure. [25:10] Hello? No. [25:12] Okay. [25:13] I'm up here, I know that you didn't know that, I'm up here in this interview with [25:18] Um... [25:19] The detective, Detective Snow, [25:24] I've been up here a good little while. [25:32] I'm filling out this statement here and everything. [25:41] Are you telling me that's what I need to do? [25:54] I know, I know, I know, I'm not, I know that. But the way that I look at it is I'm innocent, I ain't done nothing wrong.

[26:06] I know you've told me innocent people have got jammed up, but if you're telling me to leave, I'll get up and leave. [26:11] If you want me to... [26:15] Thank you. [26:18] I know I'm going to do a lot, but I'm trying to get this guy to help me. [26:31] I don't think she's ran off of some other guy. I don't believe that. [26:35] You can't make me think that. [26:43] Yeah, I mean, so do I. [26:47] I'll do exactly what you're telling me to do right now. You want me to get up and leave? [26:51] I don't think these people are not vindictive just to skin me for no reason. This is not their family. [26:58] This is Mark. [27:10] All right, thank you. [27:14] Who thinks y'all are a little fuckers what he thinks? I don't know who he is. Nick, my brother. [27:20] You know, I know it but I'm not [27:23] He just said just to keep sitting up here, to give a statement, do an interview, whatever I've got to do, do it. But he said, no, just to keep letting them beat you to death over this right here. Just ask what you've got to ask. [27:36] and you tell me you see what I'm you see what I mean he knows more about this than I do you see what I do and have I listen have I told you

[27:43] the for you [27:46] Yes, you have. I said, what did I say? [27:48] My job is to find Chris. And I'll put a link. This is actually in his entire interview is online. I'll at least link out to the part where he gets this call. [27:59] What they find out is that this call is from his brother, Nick, who is a police officer on the same force. And... [28:08] This actually puts Nick on police's radar and they feel like he is obstructing their investigation. So they ask Nick then to take a polygraph and he refuses and he doesn't take one until the FBI comes in and administers it. [28:25] And it doesn't come back as inconclusive. It shows that he is [28:28] like flat out lying his pants off. - Oh good. - Right, like and again, like I know we just talked about polygraphs and like in a couple episodes ago, [28:37] and take him with a grain of salt. [28:40] Bye! [28:42] That's like... [28:43] a pretty big percentage. Yeah, but like lying his pants off. They said like every single question, [28:50] relating to Crystal, everything came back as he was being deceptive. [28:55] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. So

[29:14] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now. [29:21] wherever you get your podcasts. [29:25] On September 10th, Nick is suspended from the police department for undisclosed reasons. [29:33] Then in October, a month later, [29:36] Police finally name Brooks as a suspect, an official suspect. And the same day he's named as a suspect... [29:43] His brother Nick is fired from the police [29:46] department and it's revealed that he's fired... [29:50] because he wasn't cooperative and he failed the lie detector. The force said that all of this was against their code of ethics. A police officer should assist in any investigation and they definitely shouldn't be a hindrance to one and it shouldn't be like pulling teeth to get them to cooperate. [30:08] Right, yeah. As police are gathering information on Crystal's case, they learn that a white sedan was seen in the area of Crystal's abandoned car. And they find out that Nick and Brooke's grandmother has a white car that matches the description. But by the time the police have connected the dots, she's already sold the car. [30:31] and they can't even track it down. [30:33] And they try to interview Grandma about this, but she's also invoked her Fifth Amendment rights and refuses to talk. So, again, like, just fishy, fishy, fishy. This whole family is throwing up red flags right and left. Totally. It's likely that she didn't commit a crime. I mean, she's, like, a little old lady, and I like to think little old ladies are nice.

[30:54] But she probably found out that her grandsons had done something or used her vehicle or something had happened. She found out something. There's a reason she doesn't want to talk. And she's either protecting them or she's been advised by a lawyer that if any of her property was used, she could be culpable for them. [31:12] or like, [31:13] Charged as an accessory. So she shut down. They can't find the car. So they can't prove anything with the car. And side note. While all of this is going on. Like this saga happens over the course of like three or four months. [31:26] Five days. [31:28] After Crystal's disappearance, the home that Crystal and Book shared [31:33] burns to the ground. What? Yes. So, [31:38] If there was any evidence in that home of a crime... It's gone. Totally gone. And police went in and sifted through the ashes. And it's said that they took some stuff away. But we don't know what they took. We don't know if they found anything. Oh, my God. Because of this, like, obviously... [31:55] he started looking really fishy then. That's what led them to do the polygraphs and the interviews and the grandma's car. I mean, that's what started all of this. And they also did searches of [32:06] his like family farms, like all the properties that his family owned, and they collected some items like I think there was even like [32:12] some larger like tractors or like farm equipment that they collected, but they never said if they found anything that could directly tie him or Nick to the disappearance. I assume no, or they would be under arrest.

[32:25] But. [32:27] To make things even a little muddier, Brooks and Nick had friends who were actually charged with perjury for lying to the police and making false statements. And Crystal's family was hopeful that this meant that they were getting closer to the truth and soon Brooks and Nick would be charged. But this never happened. And it didn't stop Crystal's family, though. They were super vocal, like nonstop in the media, pointing their finger at Brooks and his brother. [32:57] Thank you. [32:57] special treatment because of Nick's relationships with the police or... [33:01] Even though he was fired or they didn't know if like there really just was nothing to go off of, they were just super frustrated in knowing that they're not getting answers. [33:08] So to this day, no one has seen Crystal. They've never found her remains. [33:14] Oh my god. And to make things weirder, so that was number four of the crimes that we're talking about. The fifth crime is on November 16th, just a few months after Crystal's disappearance. Her dad went hunting on his property the first day that the hunting season opened. And he wasn't actually far from where Crystal's car had been found. And while he was out, he shot in the chest. [33:44] reported as a hunting accident but police and everyone else now realize that he was shot directly in the chest and it's clear that it was a homicide it said it's being investigated as a homicide

[33:56] But that was November 2016, and no one's been arrested since. No. So over three years, there's this string of brutal murders and disappearances in a town that was otherwise free of violent crime. [34:10] And it always starts with Crystal because everyone can so clearly link her case to her dad's case. The theory is that her dad was getting close to answers and someone had to take him out. Because shortly before his death, he was actually telling people that he was concerned that he was being watched and he was being followed. And he actually placed a camera on his truck to see if someone was following him. And police have that video, but they've never released any of the footage. [34:40] and they've never said if it actually shows anything or proves that someone was following him. [34:44] So we know these two are probably linked. [34:49] How did the others fit in? [34:50] To be honest, [34:52] I don't know if they do. But here's the theory that everyone has. They say that it starts with Officer Ellis. And they think that Jason Ellis likely found out about something drug-related and possibly involving corruption within the police department. And because he got too close and knew something he wasn't supposed to know, he was taken out. Whoever killed him... [35:17] had to have known his schedule, the fact that he didn't have his dog with him that day. People think it was likely done by police. But why would police kill him unless there was some kind of corruption inside the force?

[35:32] If the police killed him, if it was someone who was so close to him that knew his schedule and were saying that person is police, then whatever he knew had to have involved police. Like, police aren't going to kill... [35:43] Jason Ellis because [35:45] he found out about some gang-related stuff, you know what I mean? Like, they're all on the same team. Right, yeah, totally. [35:51] So that's the theory with him. [35:53] The murder... [35:55] The murders of Kathy and Samantha are, I think, a lot harder to tie to this. The only thing... [36:02] people speculate is that somehow Kathy or Samantha [36:06] saw or heard something they weren't supposed to, and then someone had to silence them. And it would explain why nothing was taken. The sole motive literally was to go in there and take these two women out. [36:18] But often people speculate online, I think you'll see this a lot, so Kathy was a special education teacher. Amy. [36:27] Jason Ellis' wife was a substitute teacher. So people will say like, oh, well maybe they knew each other from the school. Or maybe Kathy was a teacher for one of Amy's sons because Amy had a special needs son. Or maybe Samantha was a babysitter. And this like goes on and on. There's so many places that like make this connection. But on the family's, [36:46] Facebook page for Kathy and Samantha. [36:49] Kathy's sister, Samantha's aunt, adamantly says, like, we know of no... [36:54] connection at all. So anything that people are making it up or... [37:00] If it did happen, we have no idea. But we can't connect these two people in any way. So the only way...

[37:06] that Kathy and Samantha would be connected is, I believe, if they would have seen something or heard something, like, shortly before they were murdered. And it was something that they didn't even realize they had seen because they didn't tell anyone they saw anything weird, you know what I mean? [37:23] Right, totally. And [37:26] Okay, so finally... [37:27] the case of Crystal, people also think that she could have gotten too close to something. She either overheard or found out something because of her close proximity to Brooks and Nick who was on the force and clearly we already know Nick is kind of a shady character when it comes to like [37:47] his police morals. So the theory, I believe, is that [37:52] Nick was involved in something, maybe got Brooks involved in something, and... [37:59] Not necessarily that they're the ones that killed Jason Ellis, but they're involved in this bigger police corruption conspiracy, and it's the same machine. And because Crystal was so close to them, she somehow found out about either what was going on or something about Jason Ellis, or she heard something she wasn't supposed to. And they decided to make her go missing. And who knows if we were even supposed to find her car. Like, that flat tire, again, was totally unplanned. [38:29] And maybe they were trying to make it look like she just totally ran off. [38:33] And all of this is super tenuous, but it has legs because

[38:38] Right before Crystal went missing, there was a big shake-up in the police department there. [38:44] When a new mayor comes in and he actually fired the assistant chief because of allegations of corruption, the mayor said that the assistant chief was actually shredding a bunch of documents related to drug task force and internal affairs. Of course. So that is like the fuel to the fire and why so many people believe that something dirty was happening within the police department. And people who were finding out were basically... [39:13] getting just like picked off one by one. [39:16] So what do you think? Do you think it's a conspiracy? Do you think it's all totally unrelated? I mean, if you know me, you know I'm a conspiracy theorist, so of course I'm going to side on that. [39:28] It is an inside job. It's a conspiracy theory. And that's the theory I'm subscribing to. But there's a chance that it's not. I know. I think the scarier thing almost is to think that it's not related. [39:42] I too, like you, like I love a good conspiracy theory. I did my senior thesis on how I think the Kennedys killed Marilyn Monroe. Like I love it. [39:50] But the crimes are all so different. And other than living in the same town, most of them don't seem like at all connected. [40:00] Or they don't even seem to have known each other other than Crystal and her dad. [40:04] But what I keep coming back to and like why I can't let it go and I think why so many people can't let it go is what was the motive for all of these? Like literally none of these people –

[40:16] had things stolen from them, they didn't have rocky relationships, they didn't have enemies, [40:22] So it's literally like, what are the odds that all of these, there's this rash of these violent crimes... [40:29] With no motive. Yeah, with the only motive to be, to silence, to not silence, but like to take these people out. And like, you know, the conspiracy theorist in me says, well, gosh, if I were a sophisticated... [40:42] person and I'm gonna and I'm gonna kill multiple people I'm not gonna kill them the same way like that is super obvious that they're connected. Definitely. I'm gonna do it in different ways so they do look unrelated or at least gives people [40:55] some doubt. Right. So Britt, you and I heard a little rumor about this case this summer. Do you think we should tell everyone else the rumor we heard? [41:06] Um, I don't know. What do you think? I mean, it's not a super rumor about the case per se, but it is a rumor about the coverage of this case. It's a podcasting rumor. I feel like if we don't [41:18] talk about podcasting rumors like why are we here okay so this is what we have to tell you [41:23] While at CrimeCon this summer, Britt and I heard that this case might actually be the topic for season two of Up and Vanish. This is before they had a TV show and all that stuff. So I don't know how that might have changed their plans. But they say that it's coming out in 2018. So who knows? We might get like a way bigger story on this expanded and like a deeper dive into all of that. If they actually do decide to follow through and cover this like they said.

[41:52] Which would be super exciting! So... [41:55] Although it's a rumor and something completely unfounded, [41:59] We would [42:01] Definitely look forward to it. Absolutely. And I mean, like the stuff that's going on, I mean, as recently as late in 2016, I mean, trials were going on, depositions in 2017. This is very much ongoing. So if anything happens, if Crystal's ever found, like obviously any of the cases we cover, we'll give you an update. But maybe... [42:22] You'll be getting a more in-depth update from someone else. [42:25] Alright guys, so that was a lot of murder. That was a lot of sad puppet stuff. So I think we should remedy that with our first... [42:33] Pruppet of the Week story. This week's Pruppet of the Week comes to us from Paul in New Jersey. Paul says that his sister actually got him into our show, but now he has gotten all of the guys at his work into this every day. I know. And every single Monday morning, they all gather around his [43:03] All of the guys at United Fire Systems in New Jersey, we're so happy that you're listening. Thank you for listening. Oh my God. I hope you like the story about Paul's prophet Cooper. [43:19] So when I reached out to Paul, I had no idea what a touching adoption story he had with his dog, Cooper. One day, Cooper mysteriously shows up in his friend's front yard. He has a collar, but no tag. And Paul says that he was like full tail wags, happiness, even though he looked really unhealthy. He was super skinny. He had bad skin. And none of his friends, including him, were in a position to take a dog at that time. Paul had just broken up with his girlfriend, and he was actually staying at his sister's house.

[43:49] His other friend had just adopted a dog as well, but you can't ignore a puppy. I mean, I guess you can, but that makes you a monster, and our listeners aren't monsters. Exactly. Oh my god. So they all decide to kind of pitch in and see if they can find out where he came from, or if they can't, see if they can find him a forever home. [44:07] Well... [44:09] They're in this hunt, and they kind of have this realization. So the friend that just got the puppy, well, the puppy was from a breeder. And this puppy looked almost exactly like Cooper. So they decide to reach out to the breeder to see if anyone else in the area had adopted one of their dogs. And sure enough, she had sold a dog to a family that was just down the street from them. [44:39] Oh my god, I have full body chills, and I'm not even joking. This is magical. Right, Cooper? Yes, Cooper? [44:46] Cooper found his brother! [44:48] This is just cheesy, but it reminds me of our friendship story, and I'm about to cry. I know. I have all the tears. Oh my god. I was literally, the first time I read this, I was definitely crying. [45:01] So they get the information from this breeder about who Cooper was sold to, and they go to this house, and it is a total dump. It's boarded up. It's totally unkempt. [45:18] area on the front porch there's no food in his bowl his water bowl is bone dry and they said as soon as they pulled up like cooper was visibly upset and scared and he wouldn't even get out of the car oh my god so paul's friend who's making this trip goes to the front door knocks on the windows knocks on the side door like trying to get someone's attention and finally someone comes out to the front door and it's a middle-aged guy like tweaking out of his mind and she asks him about

[45:48] like he's mine I don't even didn't even know he was gone and mind you he's been with them for like hours at this point yeah so Paul's friend starts laying into him and finally like halfway through she's like what am I even doing like this isn't you don't care this isn't worth it yeah I don't have to be doing this I can walk away and just keep yeah and she goes you know what you can't have him back and all this guy does is shrug his shoulders and close the door monster monster and [46:18] and she begs Paul to keep the dog. She had Cooper's brother and she wanted them to always have each other and be close. So Paul agreed. I'm gonna cry. I'm gonna cry. I know. So Paul agreed to take him in, but he had no idea like how it was gonna work. Like I said, it was a really rough time for him. He was like living with his sister and he thought though, you know, Cooper's come into my life for a reason. So I am gonna do this. And he took Cooper to his sister's house where he was staying. And when he got there, [46:48] water but he wouldn't eat or drink he just sat there and stared at him and what Paul realizes is like oh my god he's waiting for permission so Paul like rubs his head and he's like you know it's okay now you can have some food buddy and he without missing a beat totally understands everything he said and goes for the food and Paul's just like giving him love while he's eating like letting him know everything's gonna be okay and Cooper's gonna have a better life and he

[47:18] to paul because it's like the middle of the night at this point and paul's to work in the morning and he goes to paul's bed and he sits right on the side of paul's bed and like lays his head down on the bed and paul's like oh it's okay buddy you can get up here and he jumps on the bed he's like i have never seen a dog so happy in my whole life and he's like licking his face and he curls up right in his nook you know like under your armpit oh my god [47:43] And he slept there all night. And I'm so glad that podcasts aren't visual because I have tears like streaming down my face. Oh my God. I'm like so touched because it reminds me so much of how my rescue dog Niles is with me. Like he just curls up and is just like the happiest guy in the world. Yeah. Oh my God. So they're together every day since then. They do absolutely everything together. And Paul says he's looking like a brand new dog now. He's like gained weight. His skin's healthy. [48:13] his infections have cleared up. And Paul said, you know, even though he might have saved Cooper, he really thinks that Cooper has given more to him. He was going through a really rough time. He was in a bad place and he needed that best friend and unconditional love more than even Cooper might have. So I have pictures on our blog that you can see of Cooper getting his first bath when Paul brought him home and pictures of Cooper cuddling with his best dog friend named Abby. So

[48:43] also post them on instagram at crime junkie podcast so i hope you guys have enjoyed this new little segment it makes me feel warm and fuzzy to know that even though there are monsters in the world who would just let their dog go away there are also wonderful people who will take in a and you know find a new best friend it's amazing to me like all the bad stuff that cooper had gone through like dogs are truly just like want to [49:07] to give love. I mean, we don't deserve them. We really don't. No, I mean, he has every right in the world to hate humans and to be like angry or mean, but all he wants is love and oh, and to love. And that's why puppets are the best. Always. If you want your puppet to be featured as puppet of the week, tag us on social media, either post it in our crime junkie discussion group, post a picture [49:37] junkie podcast at gmail.com. [49:40] We're taking submissions all these different ways. The more profits we see, the better. [49:56] Thank you all so much for listening to another episode. As a reminder, we always want to plug our favorite nonprofit, Crime Stoppers. Make sure to find out more about your local. If you want more information on Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana, [50:10] And please keep all of the wonderful feedback coming our way. It really helps us get through each week planning and recording and editing these episodes. Definitely. And Bray, if everyone wants to find pictures and the audio and video from this episode, you want to tell them where to go? Definitely check out our website, which is CrimeJerkyPodcast.com. We will see you guys next week.

[50:40] Thank you. [50:55] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that? [51:13] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now and I've been listening for years. [51:17] I think you'll love it too. [51:19] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.