WANTED: Bradford Bishop // Yaser Said

[00:00] Hi, crime junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And today, I need all our international listeners listening close because this case is yours to solve. We are telling the story of two wanted men in this episode, one of which who is believed to be living out his days outside of the U.S. And we need your help to catch him. So, Britt, you ready to do this? So ready. [00:59] Thank you. [01:29] The first story I want to tell you today is about the Bishop family. Bradford Bishop was the patriarch of this family, and he's a crazy smart guy. Like graduated from Yale, spoke multiple languages, worked for the U.S. State Department in their foreign services division, kind of smart. He spent many years in the U.S. Army working counterintelligence, and he was stationed all over the world. Places like Milan, Florence, different parts of Africa, Ethiopia, Botswana.

[01:59] all over the world and [02:01] with his college sweetheart Annette, who he married right after graduating. They had this really exciting, exotic life, even after having three sons while they traveled from country to country, post to post. Bradford loving every single minute of the adventure, but Annette slowly tiring of the road and the new places and the new homes, wanting something more stable for her kids. [02:26] In 1974, when Bradford got offered a job in D.C. as an assistant chief in the Division of Special Activities and Commercial Treaties, it seemed like the perfect fit. He could still work in government, Annette could finally put down some roots, and Bradford's mother actually could even move in and live with them, and she could be closer to the family. Okay. [02:45] But it's said that Bradford started getting restless very soon after this move. He did not like sitting behind a desk. The mundane day-to-day operations of life in an office were making him itch for his freedom again. [03:00] By 1975, he was already talking to Annette about taking another position overseas, but she was firmly against it. She had started going back to school. She was loving her classes, loving the new life that they were building for themselves back in the U.S. [03:16] Along with their disagreeing over where the family should live, there could have been other strains on their marriage. It's reported that there were some financial troubles in their household, although it's been said multiple places that those financial troubles aren't anything wildly out of the norm for a couple in their mid-30s living in a wealthy neighborhood, in an expensive town, in an expensive house. But there was one report that the family was getting audited, but this was never confirmed by either the IRS or the FBI.

[03:45] So Bradford's a little unhappy. Life isn't perfect. He's not totally in love with his job. But show me one person who is totally in love with their job and has the perfect life. [03:57] All of this seems normal to me, but... [04:01] It just took one small thing, one straw, [04:05] to break the camel's back. [04:06] Bradford had been up for a promotion at his job and he thought he was a shoo-in for it. With all of his years of experience with his travel, he felt that by far he was the most qualified. But on March 1st, 1976, Bradford went to work to find out that he had not gotten the position and they had given it to someone else. [04:30] After he learned that he didn't get the job, [04:33] Bradford gets up from his desk, tells his secretary that he's not feeling well and needs to go home for the day. [04:40] He walks out of his office. [04:42] No one suspecting that he would never again return. And no one suspecting what he was about to do. [04:51] When Bradford left his office, he did not go directly home. He first made a stop at his bank where he withdrew several hundred dollars. [05:01] Uh, that's normal, right? Just like Robert Fisher? Oh, girl, just wait. He then drives to Montgomery Mall where he buys a sledgehammer. [05:12] and a gas can. Oh, okay. Okay.

[05:15] Yeah, and then he takes that gas can and his station wagon to a gas station just adjacent from the mall and fills them both up before making one more stop at a hardware store to get a pitchfork and a shovel. [05:29] The next time Bradford is seen again is on March 2nd in Jacksonville, North Carolina. He was buying a pair of tennis shoes at a sporting goods store. And according to the witness that came forward later, they said he had their family dog with him. And he might have also been with another woman. Do we know for sure that it wasn't his wife? Oh, no. [05:59] plus we now know looking back that it definitely wasn't his wife because at the time that he was buying those shoes his wife [06:09] along with his mother and his three kids, were currently set ablaze after being dumped in a shallow pit and lit on fire. But no one who knew the family knew that they were there. When the fire department outside of Columbia, North Carolina, found the remains, they had no idea who they belonged to. Surely someone would have reported an entire family missing, and clearly this was foul play. [06:39] Far from recognizable, it would be days before a connection was made. Days that allowed Bradford and his dog to get far, far away from North Carolina. Yeah.

[06:52] Cape Fear is a new series now streaming on Apple TV. This 10-episode psychological thriller is executive produced by Martin Scorsese and stars Academy Award winner Javier Bardem, Academy Award nominee Amy Adams, and Emmy nominee Patrick Wilson. When convicted murderer Max Cady is released from prison, he begins infiltrating the family of the married attorneys who helped put him behind bars. Watch Cape Fear streaming now on Apple TV. [07:20] On March 10th, police back in Bethesda, where the family had their home, got a call from a concerned neighbor. They said they hadn't seen or heard from the family in days and they wanted police to do a welfare check. As soon as police arrived, what they saw confirmed that something was very, very wrong. There was blood on the front porch. [07:42] blood on the floors and walls of the front hall, [07:46] "Blood in the bedrooms, [07:48] All of this, which pieced together a gruesome tale for investigators. What they realized is the family hadn't been seen since March 1st, the day that Bradford left work sick. After they pieced together his movements, they realized that he methodically had come home from the hardware store around 7.30 and one by one killed his family members. Oh my God. [08:18] hog. [08:18] Then, [08:19] His three children, William who was 13, Brenton who was 10, and Jeff who was only 5.

[08:27] all were beaten to death with a sledgehammer in their sleep. [08:31] Bradford then, again, seemingly as if he's on a mission and knows every next step he's going to make, he loads the bodies into their station wagon, [08:41] loads up the family dog and drives. Drives for 275 miles or 443 kilometers. That's five hours of driving in the night with your entire family dead in the backseat or in the trunk. Oh my God. Five hours to think about what you've done, why you've done it, [09:03] Five hours of looking in the rearview mirror and seeing your young sons bloodied and [09:09] and cold because of what you did. Oh my God. I can't. I can't. [09:14] Bradford makes it to a wooded swamp area just south of Columbia, North Carolina, where he uses that shovel he bought to dig a small pit where one by one he places their bodies. And for reasons unknown, he douses them with the gasoline he bought and sets their bodies ablaze. [09:34] and just walks away like he never had a family [09:38] at all. [09:39] Wait, but he... [09:41] Took the dog? Yeah. I mean, same, but even more like Robert Fisher, right? Yeah. So, again, I don't... As somebody who loves puppets, like, I am not one to judge how much a person loves their dog. But...

[09:57] As we're talking about, you know, we talked about in the Chris Watts case, there's no research around these family annihilators. [10:03] It seems to be, at least we've seen it twice, and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw it again, that these people have no problem killing off their entire family, children who've done nothing wrong, but... [10:15] They have some kind of loyalty to their animal that they don't even have to their own kids. It's super weird. His car would later be found abandoned in Tennessee. Witnesses said that it had been there as early as the 5th of March or as late as the 7th of March. The day after his car was found, a grand jury would indict him with the murders of his family and he would become a wanted band. But. [10:38] He was long gone by then. Bradford had a diplomatic passport that police are sure he used to flee the country, since that passport and his wallet were never found. And again, it's hard to imagine now that they would have no idea where he went, but flying in the 70s was a totally different thing. Like, you could just walk right up to the gate and step on a plane without showing even a piece of ID, barely. Right. We're all in the post-911 world where they're... [11:07] are so many hoops to jump through just to get through like TSA. Right, but not then. There have been numerous sightings of him throughout Europe over the years, and police believe that he likely could be still residing either in Italy, Switzerland, or maybe California. Once in 1978, shortly after the murders, a woman who worked with Bradford while he was assigned in Ethiopia

[11:37] home. She didn't contact police then because she had no idea he was a wanted man. She found out way later and just told police about this after she figured it out. [11:47] In 1979, one year later, another colleague who had worked with him at the State Department actually had a really close encounter with him. He said that he spotted him in a restroom in Italy, and he said Bradford had a beard, and the two men came like eye to eye, and he knew it was him, and he couldn't help but ask, like, hey, Bradford. [12:10] "You're Bradford Bishop, aren't you?" And he said this man had a very distinct American accent and said, "Oh, no," and then ran out of the bathroom. And I don't know if it's like, "Oh, no," or like, [12:23] Oh, no. Like, those are two very different things to me. There's no inflection. Right. So he says, oh, no, and runs out of the restroom. If this was him, this sighting could have scared him and made him be more cautious because the next possible sighting of him didn't come until 1994 when an old neighbor of Bradford spotted him on a train platform in Switzerland. She wasn't able to make contact with him, but she said she was sure that it was him. [12:53] None of these sightings have ever been fully substantiated by the FBI, but I think there's some credibility to them because in 2010 is when the authorities said they thought he was living in Switzerland. [13:05] Italy or somewhere in California.

[13:08] Clearly they think that the sightings have to hold some kind of water. [13:12] And this is where we need our international listeners to have their ears perked up today. Bradford is in his 80s now, and there is an age composite of him that we're going to put on our website and on our Instagram. But some notable characteristics that you should look out for. He was an avid outdoorsman who loved camping, loved hiking. He had a pilot's license from when he was stationed in Africa. So Lord knows the guy could be anywhere. He enjoys riding motorcycles. He works out all the time. [13:42] He did suffer at one point from depression and insomnia. And I don't know how much to read into that and how that contributed to what he did. But he was taking medication for it. Now, maybe his depression was about having a family. And once that was over, he's not taking medication anymore. But he's also, it says, really fond of dogs. So for a long time, they think he had his family dog. He probably would be having a new dog now. I mean, his dog's probably passed. Let's not talk about that, please. [14:12] dog could still be alive and dogs live for 30 years. Exactly. Or he might, you know, he could have had another dog, but they think he either loves dogs, would always have a dog or would like pass you and want to pet your dog. He also enjoys scotch, peanuts and spicy food. And he has this six inch vertical scar on his lower back from a surgery that he had. And he has a notable cleft

[14:42] something that would be really, really hard to get rid of and be some very notable factors. Yeah, definitely. There were a couple of times investigators thought they were close to him. In 2014, a John Doe who was hit by a car and killed was exhumed because of similarities in how he looked to Bradford. But a DNA test confirmed that that wasn't him. They also compared two different men, one from Hong Kong and one from France. [15:12] TB. [15:12] Those were him because they were very similar, but neither of those were a match either. Bradford ended up getting removed from the FBI's 10 most wanted list just this past summer to make room for new awful humans. But the FBI has not stopped looking for him. It's likely he is still alive and still well, and it's now up to our crime junkies to keep their eyes peeled away. [15:37] for Bradford Bishop. All right, Britt, are you ready for a story about another really crappy dad who's wanted by the FBI? I'm not sure if I'm going to say yes or no. Well, I'm definitely not, but I'm going to tell you anyways. And I'm going to tell you about Yasser Saeed. The events that took place leading to Yasser being put on the FBI's [redacted address] much more [16:07] This story happens on January 1st of 2008 in a small town called Louisville, Texas. But the story really begins years before that in October of 1998 when Yasser's two daughters, Amina and Sarah, accused their father of sexual abuse. They made these allegations to the sheriff's office and an investigation had begun. When they interviewed the girl's mother, Patricia, she had signed an affidavit confirming that this was true.

[16:37] inappropriately and had actually penetrated at least one of them. But within three months, the charges would be dropped. From what we know about Yasser and his control over the family, he likely forced this on them with some type of coercion. And Patricia often would try and leave him, try and stand up to him, and then back down. And she did end up like taking back her affidavit. [17:07] because they had wanted to go live with their grandmother so they could attend another school. And the case gets dropped. Now, just because the charges were dropped didn't mean there wasn't something there. And I don't think his daughters were truly his first victims because when Yasser immigrated to the U.S. from Egypt in 1983, he met and married his wife, Patricia. He was 30 years. [17:30] And she was 15. [17:32] which I think is a crime in and of itself. Uh, yeah. Patricia says Yasser was very abusive during their marriage, and that was the reason she covered him for so many years. Like many women who suffer abuse, Patricia tried to leave, but would return to her husband multiple times. [17:50] One time in particular, when she tried to leave, Yasser even shot out the tires on her car to keep her from leaving. Along with sexually assaulting his two young daughters, he would continue to lash out physically and mentally at them well into their teenage years. He would try to control their every move by recording them with audio or video recorders without their knowledge, and he made them afraid of even using public telephones because they feared that he was everywhere. All right.

[18:20] always listening. And they had a reason to be afraid of him listening and watching because he would turn very violent. Amina and Sarah both told friends that they were terrified he was going to kill them and they would share the threats that he made toward them with their close friends. [18:39] But it was far from just threats. Amina once showed up to her high school class with welts on her face, and she told her friend that her dad had been kicking her. Oh, my God. A friend of Amina's was quoted by the Dallas News saying that Amina had told her he kicked her in the face because he had found notes from her boyfriend. And her friend said, quote, her lips were pretty much attached to her braces, but they wouldn't take her to the doctor because her family feared her father would be taken to jail. End quote. [19:09] Thank you. [19:10] Thank you. [19:10] The abuse continued to grow worse with threats of violence and even murder from Yasser. Yasser was so upset by Amina having a boyfriend that he moved the family a half hour away from Euless, Texas to Louisville, Texas, just to try and break them up. [19:27] but it didn't work. Tension rose slowly. [19:30] The older the girls got, the more they prepared to leave. The plan was for both of them to get away when they go to college. They were both super smart. They both wanted to be doctors. School was going to be their escape. [19:44] But things were getting so bad, they just couldn't wait that long. They feared maybe they wouldn't even live long enough to see a life in college away from their father. So in December of 2007, they planned to run away with their mother. Sarah told a friend in an instant message that her dad had found out Amina was still dating that boy and he was, quote, going to kill them. She continued her IM conversation, telling her friend, quote,

[20:14] he was going to put bullets through her head. Today he told me to get used to my sis because she's not going to be with us long. [20:20] end quote. They knew time was running out. [20:24] On Christmas Day of 2007, Patricia, Sarah, Amina, and the girls' boyfriends left the state of Texas. They used fake names and got an apartment in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Yasser filed a missing persons report for his family just one day after they left, but Patricia called the police to tell them she was not missing. Here is a direct quote from that report. [20:48] Patricia stated that she was not going to call back again as she was in great fear for her life. Patricia said she is very fearful of her husband harming her and or her children, which is the reason she left her husband. Patricia further advised she and her children, Sarah and Amina, are just fine and are going to continue hiding from her husband. End quote. [21:08] But that resilience in Patricia didn't last long. [21:12] On New Year's Eve, she got her daughters into the car and told them that she wanted to go put flowers on their grandmother's grave because it was the anniversary of her death. [21:22] but she had lied. [21:23] Patricia felt guilty about leaving Yasser and she once again returned. But she was not only returning herself, she was going to bring the girls back with her. [21:36] For decades, some cold cases have been reduced to files in a cabinet, but not anymore. I'm Ashley Flowers, and me and my team on the deck have been traveling across the country to report on these forgotten cases. And in some instances, it's resulted in these cases being solved after decades. So

[21:56] Join me every Wednesday as we revive these stories one card at a time. Listen to the deck now. [22:03] wherever you get your podcasts. [22:06] I'm sure Patricia thought she would go back and things would be better, or maybe her only expectation was that it just wouldn't be worse. But little did she know, she was bringing her daughters back to their murderer. [22:20] The next day, January 1st of 2008, the start of a new year for those two girls, Yasser put them in his taxi cab and kissed them both. He said he was going to take them out for dinner and Patricia asked if she could come but Yasser said no. This dinner was only for the girls. [22:39] Not long after Yasser drove away... [22:42] 911 got a call from Sarah. [22:44] from the back of her dad's taxicab. [22:47] Hi, I'm not me, this is the office of the time I'm dying. What's going on, ma'am? [22:53] I'm dying, not whatsoever. Irving Fire Department. Ma'am, are you still there? [23:00] Ma'am, are you still there? [23:02] All I got is she's telling me she's dying. I'm getting... I've got a wife, are you still there, ma'am? [23:07] Ma'am, what is your address? [23:10] Thank you. [23:10] a cabin or cab stands. There's an appear that there's a driver, but there are two people inside the cab, one in the passenger seat and one in the rear of the vehicle. One of the people in the [23:23] and the housema's sheet looks like she's hunched over.

[23:27] Is there blood coming from my ear? [23:31] I'm dying were Sarah's last words to the 911 operator before she died in her father's cab. Oh my God. Yasser had shot both Sarah and Amina in his cab and left it outside a hotel where another cab driver found it with Yasser crying. [23:48] Nowhere to be found. There was a lot of talk about Yasser fleeing back to Egypt, but airline travel in 2008 wasn't what it was back in the 70s when Bradford Bishop left. I can see how Bradford Bishop just hopped on a plane, was never seen again. But like you said, Yasser was living in a post 9-[redacted address] that he skipped the country, at least not using his real name. [24:12] New York crime junkies. Are you listening now? Because the FBI believes that Yasser is in New York City working as a cab driver. Back in 2014, he was seen driving a light-colored or champagne-colored older Mercedes and working as a cab driver. [24:31] but that was the last sighting of him. He is still on the FBI's 10 most wanted list. And as of the time that we're recording this, there's a hundred thousand dollar reward for information leading to his capture. Okay. [24:44] You know, taking what we learned about Family Annihilators in... [24:48] The Watts. [24:49] episode, I feel like we could easily classify Yasser under the second category of disappointment, right? Yeah, that's the one where the killer believes that the family has let him down or has acted in ways to like undermine or destroy his vision of the ideal family. And they say a lot of times this kind of family annihilator happens when they like clash in culture. And I think a lot of that applies. A lot of people are calling this an honor killing, but...

[25:18] Everything I found doesn't support that really at all. The family didn't attend church or prayers regularly. Both Patricia and their other son firmly reject the idea that this was an honor killing. And really, Yasser's different than all of the other family annihilators we've talked about on this show. Because there was a clear history of abuse. Whereas with Chris Longo and Chris Watts and Chris Coleman. It was all the Chris's. [25:44] It was kind of out of the blue. Time out. We need a new life rule that says don't name your child Chris. They're really all named Chris. [25:50] And don't marry a Peterson, let's be honest. [25:53] Don't name your kid Chris and don't marry a Peterson. Wow. Anyways, so... [25:59] All those cases, along with Bradford Bishop, everyone who knew them say they never saw it coming. But in Yasser's case, I think everyone did see it coming. He was an abuser. He made threats. It doesn't make him any less of a family annihilator, but he's, I think, a lot different than the ones we've talked about in the past. It's not like he just snapped or something led him to this. Yeah. He was... [26:23] really working up to it the whole time. Right. So, [26:26] If we're calling him the second category of like the disappointment one, how would you classify Bradford Bishop? I think we can put him in the nomic category, right? Like we classified Chris Watts. [26:37] He's obviously linking his family to his success, or lack thereof. [26:43] It sounds like he viewed his family as holding him back. He didn't get to travel because of them. He was stuck at a job where he didn't get a promotion because of them. And they were the reason...

[26:56] he wasn't succeeding. Yeah, and that's, I think, the most clear definition. To me, this is even more clear than Chris Watts, because... [27:03] Chris Watts had a lot of financial troubles, but in Bradford Bishop's mind... [27:08] at least from everything I've been able to research, like his family was the reason he couldn't travel to other countries. His family is the reason he couldn't take the positions he wanted to. I'm sure in his mind, he didn't get that promotion because of his family. So I definitely think he falls into that category as well. Right. Right. [27:26] Not that that changes anything, but it's a little bit... [27:29] nicer to know that we have these kind of like buckets we can put these people in. So [27:35] We have two family annihilators, one episode, and an entire globe where these two men could be. So again, my crime junkies in Switzerland, Italy, and California, I need you looking out for Bradford Bishop. And my New York crime junkies, I need you to keep an eye out for Yasser Saeed. I'm actually going to be in New York myself at the end of the month, and you better believe that I am going to be staring down all of my cab drivers. [28:01] to see pictures of these two men that we've talked about so you can be on alert visit our website crimejunkiepodcast.com click on the episodes link to see the blog post for this specific episode or you can check them out on our instagram at crimejunkiepodcast and be sure to follow us on

[28:31] And we will be back next week with a brand new episode. [28:52] This episode of Crime Junkie was researched, written, and hosted by me with co-hosting by Britt Prewatt. [29:01] Sound production was done by David Flowers, and all of our music, including our theme, comes from Justin Daniel. Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? [29:16] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that? [29:34] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now and I've been listening for years. [29:38] I think you'll love it too. [29:39] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.