Master Your Focus with Nir Eyal

[00:00] Okay, I have a business question for you. Where did you get your domain? [00:04] On Wix, it was really easy. Was it actually easy or are you exaggerating? No, really, it took like 90 seconds. I even built a full website. [00:14] What do you mean? I just used Wix Harmony, just told it what I wanted, and it built a fully functional website for me in minutes. It also comes with hosting, security, privacy protection, everything. Oh, cool. Yeah, check it out at Wix.com slash domains. [00:30] Okay, don't laugh. I'm gonna laugh. [00:32] I bought a domain at 2 a.m. last night. [00:35] I love that for you. It was just there, calling to me. Where? On Wix. I even built a whole website last night with its AI website builder, Wix Harmony. But I was still in bed by 2.30, so you should be proud of me. [00:50] That was very responsible of you. You should try it too. Maybe I will. Just go to Wix.com slash domains. [00:59] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged, and today's guest is one of the brightest minds that I know. And it's not because he went to Stanford Graduate School of Business. Literally, his books are game-changing. His personal philosophies are those that they actually write books about. I'm honored to have this guy on. I've been a huge follower and fan of his for a very long time. So please join me in welcoming the insightful, the impactful, the unstoppable, Mr. Nir. Hey, y'all. [01:29] You're listening to Mick Unplugged, hosted by the one and only Mick Hunt. This is where purpose meets power and stories spark transformation. Mick takes you beyond the motivation and into meaning, helping you discover your because and becoming unstoppable. I'm Rudy Rush, and trust me, you're in the right place. Let's get unplugged.

[01:53] Mir, how are you doing today, brother? Oh my goodness. What an introduction. You are amazing. Thank you so much, Mick. It's so good to be here with you. [02:00] Man, you are the amazing one. And every word that I said was true. I've been a huge follower, a huge fan of, [02:07] A view in the work that you put out and more importantly, the action that you put behind the work. Like I think and this isn't a knock on anyone. So I don't want anyone that's listening or watching to take it this way. [02:18] But there are a lot of people that have been deemed, because this is what society tells us, [02:24] as thought leaders. [02:25] or maybe even influencers. [02:27] And when you go to study them and research them, it's like, [02:30] There's no substance. [02:32] to the things that they're actually saying near. [02:35] Bro, the reason I love you is because I love substance. [02:38] You make me think you challenge me. And more importantly, like you're that resource that I'd love to break down today. So just thank you again for being the gentleman and the human being that you are, man. [02:49] Oh my gosh, that means a lot to me coming from you. So thank you so much. And I'm so curious, what have you read of mine or what really got your juices flowing? Was there something in particular not to put you on the spot, but was there anything in particular that you do some amazing workshops? You know that. [03:01] I'm hooked and beyond. [03:04] really taught me to introspect on me a little bit. I think, you know, I'm a leader's leader is what I like to be told. [03:12] But a lot of things... [03:14] that we do and the decisions that we make start with us first. And you really forced me to look at me. [03:22] And then Indistractable, which we're going to talk about,

[03:25] With all the... [03:26] the challenges and the, [03:28] the diversions that we have or the opportunities that we have, like how do you live in focus, [03:35] indistractable, not just for you as a human, but with your business and business principles as well. So [03:40] For me, what you've done is allowed me to take personal things into business and business things into personal with that. [03:45] Very cool. I appreciate that. Thank you, man. You really made my day. Thank you. [03:50] No, you, you are the great one, man. And so near, I always ask my guests this opening question. [03:55] And that question is, what is your because? [03:58] That thing that's deeper than your why. [04:01] Like your true purpose is, [04:03] your true reasoning, um, that, uh, [04:06] that thing that really gets you out of bed in the morning, right? Like we could talk about your why. [04:11] but it's really your because. [04:13] that does it for you. So if I were to say near, [04:16] Today, 2026, what's your because? Why do you keep doing what you do? [04:20] So this is a relatively easy question for me to answer because it's a mantra I repeat to myself every single day. [04:25] When I tell myself my purpose is, [04:28] is to explain the world so that it can be made better. [04:32] That's my race. That's what I'm professionally. There's other aspects of my life, right? I want to be an available father. I want to be a great husband. I want to contribute to my community. But in terms of my professional aspiration, I'm, [04:42] I don't need to make a lot of money. That's not my purpose. My purpose is to explain the world so that it can be made better. [04:50] Yeah. [04:51] That's... [04:52] That's why you are who you are, Nir. That's why you are who you are.

[04:55] And speaking of who you are, for those that are watching and listening, man, you've co-founded and sold... [05:01] tech companies, [05:03] Then you transition into like writing and teaching, which most people can't do, especially in the tech space. Right. You've got that unique skill to have the tech. [05:11] but then also the personality that people are attracted to. [05:16] What was a pivotal moment that led you to focus on that intersection of psychology and [05:21] technology and business. [05:23] So my MO in doing my work these days and accomplishing my mission, my purpose to explain the world so that we can be made better, [05:34] is to [05:35] follow my curiosity. I don't know about you, but when I read a book, [05:40] that's written by somebody who just wanted to write a book. I can tell right away. And I don't like to write books that way. I like to [05:48] explore things that I want answers to. [05:51] And so my mantra that I repeat in terms of when I'm having trouble writing, when I feel like I'm stuck, [05:58] I repeat to myself that [06:00] I just need to follow my curiosity. [06:03] So I don't write books about what I know. I write books about what I want to know. They're very personal problems. So with Indistractable, I wrote that book because I kept getting distracted. I was the most distracted person you've ever met. I've been diagnosed with ADHD and I was struggling with too much phone use and too much this and too much that. And I wasn't focusing on my priorities and what really matters to me and staying true to my values. [06:25] And so that's why I wrote Indistractable.

[06:27] And then when it came to Beyond Belief, my new book that's coming out, [06:30] It was about this deeper... [06:33] challenge I had of knowing what to do. I had tons of great advice, tons of great information out there, right? If you don't know the answer to something, you Google it, you ask chat GPT, the information's out there. [06:45] And I wanted the benefits of doing the things I needed to do. And yet I wasn't [06:50] doing them and i didn't know why and i found that many of the people that i i was uh speaking to my [06:57] readers of my work and people that I've done consulting with had the same problem. [07:01] And so I wanted to understand this fundamental question. I was just curious, why is it? [07:05] that some people are able to accomplish their goals and others aren't. [07:08] Is it? [07:10] Just skill? Well, skill can be learned, so that can't be it. Is it information? Well, no, we're drowning in information. Maybe it's resources, and yet there are case studies after case studies of people who have [07:19] every resource at their disposal and accomplish very little. And yet there's stories of people who have almost nothing and who go on to do great things. [07:26] there's something deeper going on there. And I wanted to know what it was. [07:29] And my conclusion was after six years of research and writing, [07:33] is that it's our beliefs. And so every one of all my work stems from that curiosity, stems from I want to know the answer. And so that's why I keep digging and digging. [07:44] You know, I talk about curiosity a lot in sales when I'm talking to sales leaders and [07:50] I say the best salespeople that I know [07:53] are the most curious people. [07:54] that I know, right? And I also, because of how you write your books, the structure of your books are so phenomenal.

[08:01] Um, [08:03] You write furiously as well, if that makes sense, right? It's almost like I'm reading it from your viewpoint and you're taking me down journeys. And that's what I love. [08:13] about how you do that. [08:15] Talk to us about just that. [08:17] that setup and we can start with indistractable if you want before we get into [08:22] to the others, but [08:23] like your process of just... [08:25] laying out [08:27] your message. [08:29] a pen to paper or, you know, [08:32] hand a keyboard, whatever you want to do. Walk us through your process of how your brain works to structure it because you're [08:38] You're one of the elites that I've ever seen at Batman. Thanks. So, I mean, to be honest, it starts with a problem. And what you're not seeing, Mick, is that you're seeing the end result, but you're not seeing all the, you know, how the sausage is made. You're not seeing all the stupid stuff that I don't publish, all the rough drafts that never see the light of day, the words that end up on the cutting room floor. That's the stuff you don't see. [09:08] there. [09:09] But for me, it always starts with a problem, right? So with Indistractable, [09:14] there was a very specific moment in my life that made me [09:16] Thank you. [09:17] dive into this topic, which was my daughter and I had some time together. [09:23] just some quality time. And I remember we had this activity book of things that dads and daughters could do together. So they had like a little Sudoku puzzle. There was a

[09:32] You could make a paper airplane throwing contest, all kinds of little games we could play. [09:36] And one of the activities was to ask each other this question. The question was, [09:41] If you could have any superpower, what superpower would you want? [09:45] Thank you. [09:46] And I wish I could tell you what she said, but I couldn't because in that moment, I just had to just check this one thing on my phone real quick. [09:53] And by the time I looked up for my device, she was gone. [09:56] Because I was sending her a very clear message that whatever was on my phone, [09:59] was more important than she was, and she went to go play with some toy outside. [10:04] And so that's when I realized that [10:06] I had to do something. [10:07] Because it wasn't just with my daughter. It would happen when I would say, oh, today's going to be the day I exercise and eat right. [10:13] But I didn't, and I wouldn't. [10:14] Today's going to be the day I work on that big project. I'm really going to focus on, you know, calling that lead I'm working on or writing that chapter in my book or doing that thing that's on my to-do list and yet somehow... [10:25] 20, 30, 45 minutes later, here I am checking the news or scrolling Twitter or checking email, everything but the thing I said I was going to do. [10:33] So that's when I decided if I could have any superpower, back to answering the question in the book with my daughter, [10:39] I would want the power to be indistractable. [10:42] I just want the power to do the things that I know I want to do. [10:46] That, I think, is the most important skill of the century. [10:50] is that as the world is becoming more distracting, and it's not going to become less distracting, right? It's only with AI and virtual reality and all the stuff that's happening in reality reality, [10:59] the world is only going to become a more distracting place.

[11:02] So the superpower, the skill of the century is going to be the ability to [11:06] to follow through. [11:08] Because it turns out that people want to do business with those who follow through. People want to be in relationships with people who follow through. People want to be friends with people who follow through. We hate flakes. Flaky people suck. And so that's what I wanted. I wanted to [11:22] exercise if I said I would. I wanted to, you know, be there for my daughter if I said I would, to be there for my friends, to, for, for, for, [11:29] my business associates. [11:31] I just wanted to follow through on the things I know I should do. [11:34] So I wanted to stop getting distracted. And so that was the impetus for writing that. [11:38] So I love that. And I know that there's people that are watching or listening right now. [11:44] that are like, [11:45] Near, that's me too. [11:46] I want to stop being distracted. What are some things that people can do [11:52] In a practical sense. [11:53] Sure. To to be that person. [11:57] or that entity. [11:58] that follows through. [11:59] Yeah, so let's first start with what is distraction. We have to kind of define our terms. Okay, so what is distraction? Well, the best way to understand what distraction is, is to understand what distraction is not what's the opposite of distraction. [12:11] The opposite of distraction is not focus. [12:13] People think it's focused. It's not focused. [12:15] The opposite of distraction is distraction. [12:18] traction. It's right there in the word traction and distraction. [12:22] Both words come from the same Latin root, trahare, which means to pull. [12:27] And they both end in the same six letters, A-C-T-I-O-N. That spells action. So the first thing we need to realize is that distraction –

[12:35] is not something that happens to me. [12:37] It's right there in the word. It ends with action. [12:40] Distraction is an action that I take [12:44] that pulls me away from my goals, away from my values, away from becoming the kind of person I want to become. Those are acts of distraction. [12:53] Acts of traction, the opposite of distraction, is any action that pulls me towards what I said I was going to do, towards my values, towards becoming the kind of person I want to become. [13:02] So the most important thing here is to realize, [13:05] that what separates traction from distraction is one word. [13:10] And that one word is intent. [13:13] As Dorothy Parker said, the time you plan to waste is not wasted time. [13:17] So one of the biggest mistakes people make [13:19] is that they beat themselves up because I scrolled Facebook or TikTok or I watched a YouTube video when I shouldn't. That's actually not the problem. It's not the medium. It's not what you're doing that's the problem. [13:30] It's why you're doing it. [13:32] If you want to watch something on Netflix or scroll on Instagram or whatever you want to do, [13:37] Do it. Why is playing a video game somehow morally inferior to watching golf on TV? Whatever you want to do with your time. You're a grown up, you can do whatever you want. There's nothing wrong with any of that. So we need to stop vilifying the technology. We need to stop thinking that this is the reason for the problem. It's not our phones that are causing the problem. [13:54] The problem is much deeper than all that. We're going to get to that in a second. [13:57] So that's the first step, realizing that anything you plan to do ahead of time is traction and [14:03] Anything that is not that is distraction.

[14:06] So one of the worst forms of distraction is when people justify [14:10] to themselves. They say, well, I'm doing something I have to do anyway. [14:14] right? I'm checking my email because you know I'm at work and I need to check email at some point. I'm cleaning up my desk because you know that's something I got to do anyway. I got to take out the trash or I got to clean the dishes or whatever. [14:23] But what turns out, if that's not what you said you were going to do, [14:27] ahead of time, [14:28] It's just as much of a distraction. [14:30] So what I used to do, I used to get into work and I'd say, OK, I have that big, important project I need to work on. Right. I need to work on this big, important thing. [14:38] But let me just check email for a minute. [14:40] Let me just scroll that Slack channel. Let me just catch up on industry news because I'm supposed to do that at some point. So what's the big deal if I do it now versus later? [14:47] And what I didn't realize is that that is the most dangerous form of distraction because you don't even realize you're off track. [14:54] You're justifying it to yourself because you're like, oh, I'm checking email. That's a work-related task. But if it's not what you said you were going to do, it's the most dangerous form of distraction because you don't even realize you're off track. [15:04] because you've justified it to yourself. So, [15:06] You have traction. [15:07] You have distraction. [15:09] Now, let's talk about what prompts us to take these actions. [15:13] We have triggers. We have two kinds of triggers. The first trigger is what most people think of. [15:18] It's called an external trigger. It's the pings, the dings, the rings, all these things in our outside environment. [15:24] That's what we tend to blame. [15:26] Turns out that studies find [15:28] that external triggers, the pings, the dings, the rings, [15:32] only account for 10% of your distractions.

[15:36] 10% of the time that you check your phone, [15:38] It's because of an external trigger. [15:41] So what's the other 90%? [15:43] 90% of the time that we get distracted, it's not because of what's happening outside of us. [15:48] but rather it's because of what's happening inside of us. Exactly. It's those internal triggers. What are internal triggers? [15:55] Internal triggers are uncomfortable emotional states. [15:58] that we seek to escape. [16:00] boredom, loneliness, fatigue, uncertainty, anxiety. Once you realize this, [16:06] That distraction is not a moral failing. It's not a character flaw. There's nothing broken about you in any way, shape, or form. [16:12] It's simply you haven't acquired the skill [16:15] to deal with discomfort. [16:18] That's all it is. [16:19] You just haven't acquired the skill to deal with discomfort. You feel an urge. You feel discomfort. [16:25] And you think that pain means suffering, that you have to escape that pain. [16:30] No. [16:31] It's not true. [16:32] It's a lie. [16:33] that these internal triggers are the reason we get distracted. We're lonely, so we check Facebook or maybe Tinder. We're uncertain, we Google. We're bored, we check sports scores, stock prices, the news, whatever. We worry about people's problems 10,000 miles away. [16:49] so we don't have to think about our own lives. [16:51] Once you appreciate that fact, once you understand that the vast majority of our distractions begin from within, [16:58] You can stop blaming your technology. [17:00] and start finding practical solutions to deal with that emotional discomfort, [17:04] so that you can master the internal triggers so they don't become your master. So to answer your question, a little bit long-winded, sorry. The first step.

[17:12] master the internal triggers. You have to find out what am I going to do when I feel bored, lonesome, indecisive, fatigued? Am I going to escape it by smoking it away, by drinking it away, by clicking it away, by scrolling it away? [17:25] Or am I going to figure out a way to use that same discomfort to propel me towards traction rather than trying to escape it with distraction? That's step number one. [17:33] Step number two is making time for traction. [17:37] So whatever it is that you find important in your life, [17:40] You need to define that as part of your values. What are values? [17:44] Values are attributes of the person you want to become. [17:47] So if you want to know what someone's values are, don't ask them. [17:50] They're going to lie. Why? Because they're lying to themselves. [17:53] We tell ourselves, oh, health. Health is very valuable. Nothing more important than your health, right? [17:58] But have you scheduled time to exercise? [18:01] No. [18:02] Oh, my family, my family is number one. No, I'm a family man. Nothing I got. Family's number one. [18:06] Have you scheduled time to take your wife on a date or to spend time with your kids or call your siblings or your parents or be active in your community? Is it on your schedule? [18:15] No? [18:16] Well, then it's not one of your values. How about education? That's very important. You got to stay with the mind, right? You got to invest in your mind and read and do things like that to become more educated. [18:29] Well, is it on your calendar? [18:31] Is it on your schedule? [18:32] No? Well, then it's not one of your values. Because your values are determined by how you spend two things, your money, [18:39] and your time. [18:40] Those are your values. [18:41] So just like you have a checkbook or a credit card statement that accounts for how you spend all your money,

[18:45] Your calendar is how you spend your time. [18:48] So if it's not on your calendar, [18:50] It's not one of your values. [18:52] So you have to turn your values [18:54] into time. [18:56] And so you can't say you got distracted unless you can tell me, what did you get distracted? [19:02] From. [19:03] You can't say you got distracted unless you know what you got distracted from. So if your calendar is open, [19:07] You got lots of bunch of white space in your day. Maybe you got a dentist appointment or something and that's it. [19:12] You have no right to say you got distracted. [19:14] Because what did you get distracted from? There's nothing on your calendar. So you have to turn your values into time by putting time boxes in your calendar for what you want to do. [19:23] The third step is to hack back those external triggers. [19:27] So this is where we talked about the 10% of the pings, dings, and rings. [19:30] It's kind of kindergarten stuff. You know, you clean up your cell phone. That maybe takes 10 minutes. It's not a big deal. What takes longer is what about those meetings? [19:37] that are nothing more than a distraction. [19:39] What about those stupid emails that didn't need to be sent and received, right? Those are the external triggers that we need to hack back [19:45] each and every one of those external triggers that can be nothing more than a distraction. [19:49] And then finally, the fourth step is to prevent distraction with pacts. [19:53] which is where we decide in advance what we will do when we are tempted towards distraction. We create a firewall, if you will, against distraction. Once we do these four steps, [20:03] Master internal triggers. [20:05] make time for traction, hack back external triggers, prevent distraction with packs, [20:09] Anyone can become indistractable. [20:12] Real talk. I'm always on the move. Always jumping on some airport Wi-Fi or hotel network without thinking twice. Then it hit me how exposed my passwords and banking information really were. And that is when I started using NordVPN. It locks down my data wherever I am, even on public Wi-Fi. It's the fastest VPN out there. No buffering when I'm streaming. And one account covers up to 10 devices. And it's the price of a cup of coffee a month.

[20:42] Total no-brainer. [20:43] To get the best discount off your NordVPN plan, go to nordvpn.com slash mickunplugged. Our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan. [20:56] There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box. Go check out nordvpn.com slash Mick Unplugged. So, you know, when you asked me earlier... [21:09] like what specifically and I told you to look internal like that's specifically what I was talking about because I have [21:16] I've had a method for 15 years now. [21:19] That [21:20] in my companies, and it's a rule for all of us, [21:22] We only check our email three times a day. [21:24] I only check mine twice again. [21:26] All right. [21:27] Because... [21:28] You condition people to distract you. [21:31] Mania. [21:32] Nir, you email me at 805 and I respond at 810. [21:35] Right. [21:36] And we do that every day. [21:38] Well, then you email me at 805. [21:41] And 8-10 comes and I haven't responded to you. [21:44] You're going to text me. [21:45] Call me, leave me a voicemail, send me an email that says, did you get my call, my text, my voicemail? Right. Like, oh, yeah. [21:52] Because you've conditioned people... [21:54] that your desk [21:56] or your headspace, [21:58] is the emergency room for someone else's problem. [22:01] That usually is not your problem or priority. I shouldn't say problem. [22:04] Someone else's priority has become [22:06] Your priority. [22:08] Yeah, your to-do list. You helped me... [22:11] reinforce that in a much better way.

[22:15] by not just on the email side, [22:18] You know, now... [22:19] And phones are important. I get it. [22:22] But I schedule time on my calendar when I'm going to do certain things. [22:26] Right. So if I'm going to, [22:30] be on social media because sometimes my business depends on me to do that. Right. It's on my calendar when I'm going to do that. [22:37] But then I drilled down because you also taught me to drill down and be specific. [22:41] I'm not just going to say, hey, from 10 to 10, 15, I'm on social media. [22:46] I'm going to say, hey, from 10 to 10.05, [22:48] I'm going to go respond to... [22:50] DMs. [22:51] And from 10.05 to 10.10, I'm going to... [22:55] put out a new post. And from 10, 10 to 10, 15, [22:58] I'm going to do engagement. I'm going to go like a comment back. So I'm structured. [23:03] so that now I'm creating this habit. I'm forming habits. I'm forming [23:08] mental block so that I know exactly what I'm doing. [23:12] And so, [23:13] And what most people would see as distraction is, [23:15] It's very intentional for me. [23:18] And now my laser focus on my other things are there. So again, I applaud you because those are things that I got from you. [23:25] That's fantastic. I mean, you said a lot there, which is really worth reinforcing. One thing that you said is in terms of how we're conditioned by our companies. [23:32] you know, distraction in the workplace, [23:35] is a symptom of dysfunction. [23:37] Distraction is a symptom of dysfunction. [23:39] that the reason we see people so distracted at work these days, and it is taking a huge economic toll on our productivity. We could do so much more if we could work without distraction, right? We all know this intuitively. How much time are we spending?

[23:52] wasting on stupid meetings that we didn't need to go to pointless emails that didn't need to be answered and checked uh you know spending time on nonsense that's nothing more than a distraction we can be so much more productive [24:02] The problem is, [24:04] is that [24:05] It is part of the company culture, that a sick company culture where you can't raise your hand [24:09] and say, "Hey boss, [24:11] I can't do my best work when you constantly expect me to reply to every email in 30 seconds. [24:18] If you can't raise your hand, [24:20] and say, this isn't working. I can't do my best work like this. [24:24] If you can't say that, [24:26] That's the problem. [24:29] It's not the technology. People love to blame technology. [24:31] Not the technology. The technology is a tool. [24:34] The problem is that you have a crappy company culture where people are scared to talk about this problem. But once they do talk about the problem – [24:42] they fix it just like any other problem. We fix problems for our clients all day long. We can fix problems for ourselves as well. [24:48] But it's the company culture where you can't talk about this problem because you're afraid people will think you're not a team player or you're not putting in the work because you don't check your cell phone every 30 seconds. [24:56] That's exactly the problem. [24:58] The second thing you said that I think was super interesting was, [25:00] is that, [25:01] A lot of people misunderstand how to time box properly. And this is why time boxing... [25:08] is so much better than to do lists. A lot of people use stupid to do lists to do, you know, I like I like to make sure I understand the research. I don't just go on, you know, what everybody else says to do. For example, the two minute rule, a lot of people say, if a task takes less than two minutes, do it. [25:21] That is terrible advice.

[25:23] Because everything takes two minutes. So every email is two minutes, two minutes, two minutes, two minutes. You spent three hours now checking email for two minutes. Terrible advice. [25:30] Another super bad piece of advice. [25:32] Just say no. If you want to prioritize, tell people no. [25:35] Are you nuts? [25:36] That's the kind of advice that a professor gives who's got tenure, you know, who can't get fired. If you tell your boss no, the person who cuts your checks, they're going to fire you. You can't just say no. That's stupid. There's a much better way to do it. To-do list, another piece of stupid advice. Keep your to-do list. [25:51] Turns out to-do lists are one of the worst things you can do for your personal productivity. Why? [25:55] Because to-do lists have no constraints. [25:58] You can always add more to a to-do list. So what do we do? When we get affirmation from, oh, look how many cute boxes I check off, [26:05] Do we do the important stuff? No. Do we do the hard stuff? No. [26:10] We do the easy stuff. We do the fun stuff. [26:13] We do the urgent stuff, not the hard and important work we have to do to move our careers and our lives forward. [26:19] So because careers, because to-do lists have no constraints, [26:22] There's no feedback loop. [26:24] So what you've done and the right way to use these time boxes is, [26:29] is to have a feedback loop. So the goal of timeboxing, this is what most people misunderstand about timeboxing. You get it, but I think most people don't. [26:37] is that they think timeboxing is about finishing a task. [26:40] Time boxing is not about finishing anything. [26:43] It's not about finishing. [26:45] To-do lists are about finishing. That's how you get reinforcement. I crossed off a bunch of cute little boxes. No, in fact, I used to, I'm embarrassed to admit, I used to do a task,

[26:54] And then realize, oh, I didn't write on my to-do list. So let me go back and write on my to-do list just so I can check it off. How stupid is that? [27:00] Because you needed, you needed... [27:02] Maybe not you, but people that do this and there's someone... [27:06] Dear to me, and I'll just say that so I'm not saying name. [27:09] Likes to quantify busyness by what's on a... [27:12] to-do list has been marked off. And it's like, at the end of the day, I don't care. I don't need [27:17] I don't need to know that it took 15 steps to get this one thing done. I don't care how it got there. Right. Right. But why do you do that? Perfect. Exactly. Exactly. But people do this because that's how they measure their productivity. Right. But rather what, here's what happens when you keep a to do list. [27:36] and you run your life, there's nothing wrong with getting things out of your head and onto a piece of paper. That's fine. [27:40] The problem is when you run your life on a to-do list. That's the problem because you're, you're, [27:44] So here's what happens. You look at a task and you say, okay, I got to make this presentation. All right, well, let me prepare the slides for this presentation. So I start working on it. [27:51] I'm working on it for five minutes. And then I get some email notification. Let me just check that real quick. And then I get some of my Slack notification. And then I got to, you know what? Let me go get a cup of coffee. And then, oh, Janet's at the water cooler. Hey, Janet, how are you doing? And wait, what was I working on again? Oh, I totally forgot, right? And so now I have to get back into, what was I doing? I don't even remember. [28:09] Here's what happens with someone who keeps a time box calendar rather than a to-do list. [28:13] The goal of a timebox calendar [28:15] is not to finish anything. [28:18] What? [28:19] It's not to finish anything. What does that mean? What's the goal of a time box calendar? The goal of a time box calendar is, [28:24] is to work on or do whatever you said you were going to do. Whatever you said you were going to do, whether that's that big presentation, making those sales calls, being with your daughter, it doesn't matter. Whatever you said you were going to do for that time period,

[28:35] without distraction, [28:36] for as long as you said you would. [28:38] Why is that so much better? [28:40] Traction and action. That's exactly right. So what you're going to do by doing that is by saying, hey, I'm going to work on this presentation for 30 minutes. Okay, that's it. I'm going to work on it no more, no less. 30 minutes. Nothing else am I going to do. [28:52] Then I can say, hey, I worked on this presentation for 30 minutes. [28:55] The slide presentation needs to be 30 slides long, and I got done three slides. [29:00] Well, that means I need nine more time boxes to finish the entire task. [29:03] So for the first time, you know how long things take you. [29:07] So what you've learned over time is that, hey, it takes me five minutes to respond to my DMs. It takes me 10 minutes to do this, 10 minutes to do that. But you've only learned that [29:14] by having time boxes so that you can assess how long things take. Most people never figure that out. [29:20] Because they work on a test for five minutes, get distracted, forget what they were working on, do something else, check email because email will always tell you what to do next. And then they have no idea how long these things take. And then at the last minute before the deadline, they stay up all night and do a crappy job at the last minute. [29:35] That's what most people do. [29:37] We don't have to live that way. There's a much lower stress way to be, which is to become indistractable, to learn how long things take you by timeboxing, by using this fantastic technique. [29:47] And what that did for me, Nir, and we're going to talk about the next book coming up, I promise. I just love... [29:53] uh indistractable so much that it's become a way of life for me. [29:57] But, [29:59] People... [30:00] Use the term multitasking like it's a badge of honor. Like I'm great at multitasking. I can do 10 things at once. And I tell people this, no, you can't.

[30:08] You're switch tasking, but you're never multitasking. [30:12] And, you know, I guarantee there's somebody that's listening to this episode right now. [30:18] that has... [30:19] Multiple screens or tabs, and one of those tabs I promise you is email or Slack. [30:24] or something that's a communication channel, and your eyes are just right there most of the time. [30:29] And when that alert goes off, like Nir's talking about, [30:33] You switch what you're doing and you go over there. You were not responding to an email, talking to a client and doing a purchase order all at the same time. That is not humanly possible because our brains can't do that. [30:47] Ugh, I barely got any sleep last night. What? Why? I spent hours fighting with AI. All because I was trying to make a website. [30:55] It started out okay, but then I got stuck just trying to change one button. Okay, okay, relax. Just try Wix Harmony. What's that? It's Wix's new website builder. Let's you switch back and forth between AI tools and hands-on editing anytime. So I'm not just prompting and praying? Nope. Just try it for free at Wix.com slash Harmony. [31:25] AI. Who even am I? Only one website builder can save humanity from generic websites. It's here. It's really here. Wix Harmony, where AI meets hands-on control so you can build the website you want exactly the way you want. Try it for free at Wix.com slash Harmony.

[31:47] That's right. Now what you can do, that's absolutely right. You can't multitask at the same thing at the same time. So you can't do two math problems at the same time. You can't listen to two podcast episodes at the same time. You can't watch two television shows at the same time. You can't answer two emails at the same exact time. What you're doing is exactly what you described. It's called task switching. You're going back and forth and you're losing something in that process. You're losing focus. You're losing concentration. [32:10] What you can do, there is a small... [32:14] hack here. [32:16] you can do what I call multi channel multitasking. [32:20] So that's when you... [32:22] engage different sensory channels. So for example, you can absolutely [32:27] Listen to a podcast while you're driving. [32:30] No problem, because one is the physical channel where you're driving the car and you have to pay attention with your eyes. But then you can also listen to something, have a conversation, listen to a podcast, have a phone call. [32:39] while you're driving. [32:40] so you can do multi-channel multitasking so what i do it what i do is i'll engage [32:46] the physical channel, for example, in the gym, [32:48] I'll listen to audiobooks. So I'll check two boxes off at once. I check my value of educating myself, of always learning more. [32:57] as I'm doing one of my other values, which is taking care of my health. Or maybe if I go on a walk with a friend, you know, that you can't actually do, but you can't do the same thing. [33:06] uh sensory channel at the same time you're absolutely right [33:10] Good stuff. [33:11] All right, Nir. [33:12] I dominated because selfishly I just wanted to talk about [33:15] indistractable. You can see how much I minded, right? I love it. It's my favorite book out there.

[33:22] But the floor is yours now. [33:24] What does Nir want to talk about? [33:25] What do you have going on? What's going on in Nier's world? [33:29] Well, I've been, after six years of working hard on trying to uncover another layer deeper, right? So here's what happened. After Indistractable was published, you know, I do these office hours where anybody can call me and for 15 minutes, we can talk about whatever you want to talk about. If you've read one of my books, I love to hear reader feedback. And I love to help people with whatever challenges they might face that [33:49] I might have done some research into. [33:52] and um [33:54] Every once in a while, maybe like one out of every 20 calls, [33:58] Somebody would call me and say, hey, I read Indistractable. I really loved it. But here's the problem. You see, it didn't work. [34:04] I'd say, oh, wow, it didn't work. Tell me more. You know, I spent five years writing it. There's 30 pages of citations to peer reviewed studies. I know it changed my life and sold half a million copies. I hear from people all the time why it works, but I'm so curious. Tell me more. Like, I want to learn what didn't work for you. Let's talk about step one. How did step one go? Mastering internal triggers. [34:22] Tell me how that went for you. [34:24] Ah, you know... [34:26] You know, Nir, I read it. I read it, they tell me. [34:30] I just... [34:31] I just didn't do it was the problem. [34:34] Okay, I'd say no problem. That happens. Maybe you skipped a step two, right? Making time for traction. How'd that go? Tell me about how that went. [34:42] Mmm, you know... [34:44] I also read that too. I just didn't, [34:47] I just didn't do that either. And so people would wait for months to tell me that the book that they read but didn't implement didn't work for them. And I thought for a while, like, wow, what's wrong with me? Like, what did I do wrong in this book? And then I realized...

[35:02] Actually, [35:03] I do this too. [35:05] I have books on the shelf that I've read but haven't put into practice. I've paid gurus and experts to give me advice that I haven't done anything with. So, [35:13] Why is that? [35:13] Like, isn't that super interesting that we know what to do? [35:16] We know the behavior. [35:18] We know the benefit we want, and yet [35:20] We don't do it. [35:21] Right? Like, so what's going on? What's deeper there? [35:24] And so what I realized is that motivation, [35:27] is something that we don't understand well. [35:29] that I certainly didn't. I thought the motivation was if I know what to do and I want the benefit, I just do it. [35:35] But there's clearly something else here that what's missing are beliefs that we're [35:41] I can know what to do. I can know the behavior. [35:43] And I can know the benefit. I can know why I'm doing it. [35:46] But if I don't believe in the outcome, [35:49] I won't sustain my motivation. It turns out that that is the crucial element of who succeeds and who fails. [35:55] It's about... [35:56] who persists. [35:57] And in order to persist, we have to believe [36:00] that we are doing the right thing, and that we will get the benefit. [36:03] So for example, if you're working for a boss, [36:05] who you don't believe has your best interests at heart. [36:08] Well, how motivated are you going to be if you don't believe you're going to get that benefit of that promotion, that raise? [36:13] because you don't trust your boss. Not very. You're not going to sustain your motivation. [36:18] Or conversely, what if I... [36:20] Uh, no, I need to exercise or whatever the case might be. I know I need to persist at this job. I know I need to make those sales calls. [36:26] I don't believe that I can do it. [36:28] If I don't believe I can do it, I'm also going to lose motivation. So knowing what to do, even if I know it conceptually, here's what I need to do.

[36:34] And I want the reward. I want the benefits. [36:37] It's not enough. [36:38] I have to have that belief. So motivation is not a straight line. [36:41] It's a triangle. You have to have the behavior, the benefit, and the belief. [36:45] So when I was looking into, wow, you know, the research shows how important beliefs are. [36:48] I was looking for where's the book to tell me how to... [36:51] engineer my beliefs? How do I figure out what beliefs to adopt and which ones to let go of? [36:56] And all I found was a lot of gobbledygook around positive thinking and manifesting, and none of it's really supported by good research. In fact, a lot of it shows... [37:04] that a lot of the stuff that people are doing these days [37:06] is actively backfiring, just thinking positive or even manifesting. [37:11] Most people are doing it completely wrong in a way that actually hurts you. [37:15] And so I really wanted a science-backed approach to figuring out how do you break through your limitations, [37:20] so that you can achieve extraordinary results. [37:23] Love it, brother. [37:24] I freaking love it. [37:26] You know, Nir, I also want to give you the floor really quick, too, because you have [37:30] some of the most amazing workshops that you put on. [37:33] How can people find out about those? And what are a couple that you have going on or that people can go just [37:40] go either purchase or [37:42] or self-study on their own. [37:44] I appreciate it. So yeah, so at the moment, it's just the books. I'm not doing any workshops at the moment. I probably will at some point, but the most important thing is if it's an interesting topic, if you found that [37:55] You know, you have... [37:56] aspirations in your life that you know you're capable of, that you can do more, but for one reason or another, it's not happening. Maybe there are relationships in your life that aren't

[38:05] repaired, maybe you have goals that you haven't met, you know, that New Year's resolution that keeps coming up year after year, and you say, okay, next year, I'll do it next year, I'll do it. [38:15] What's underlying that? Can I tell a quick research study real quick that blew my mind? Do I have a minute? I love this study. So this is the one that really blew my mind. [38:25] So in the 1950s, [38:27] There was a biologist by the name of Kurt Richter. [38:30] And Richter wanted to pay out a very simple question. He wanted to figure out how long a wild rat could swim. [38:36] Okay, pretty simple. So he took a rat, put it in a cylinder of water. He sat there with a timer. Turns out 15 minutes. 15 minutes. [38:43] before the rat gave up [38:45] and died and drowned underwater 15 minutes. [38:48] Then he had an idea for another experiment. He wanted to see what would happen. [38:51] If he took a new group of wild rats, [38:54] put them in the water, and this time, right before the 15-minute mark, [38:58] when he knew they were starting to struggle and would soon give up, [39:01] What would happen if he reached in? [39:03] Pulled out the rat. [39:04] dried it off, let it catch its breath, and then plunk. [39:08] put it back inside the water. Now he did this a few times. [39:11] And he wanted to see how much longer the rat would swim for. What would happen? [39:15] If the RET knew, [39:17] that salvation might be possible, that this hand might reach in and save it. [39:21] how much longer would the rat swim for it started with 15 minutes 15 minutes it gave up and died [39:26] How much longer would the rat swim for when it was conditioned? [39:29] to be hopeful, to think that maybe something would save it. [39:32] What do you think, Mick? How much longer did the rat swim for? Maybe you already know this study. I don't know.

[39:37] Tell me. [39:37] What do you think? Take a guess. [39:40] I have no idea. [39:41] I'm going to make a fool of myself. [39:43] How much longer? 15 minutes was the first trial. How much longer after he saved the rats? [39:48] 30 minutes. [39:49] That would be amazing, right? If it could double the persistence of the rat, that'd be incredible. [39:54] higher. Keep going. [39:57] An hour. [39:58] An hour, oh my goodness, if I could give you some kind of intervention. [40:02] that could make you four times more persistent, right? You're working on that hard project. [40:07] I can make you work four times harder. You're making those sales calls. I can help you sustain, make four times the sales calls. That would be incredible, right? That's unbelievable. [40:15] Keep going. [40:18] Four hours near. [40:20] I'll tell you the answer. They didn't swim for... [40:22] double they didn't swim for 60 minutes they didn't swim for two hours they didn't swim for four hours they swam [40:29] for 60 hours, Mick. [40:32] It went from 15 minutes to [40:34] to 60 hours of straight swimming. Why? What happened? What changed? [40:40] Same bodies, right? They didn't all of a sudden become super rats. Same exact physical strength. [40:45] Same exact environment, same experiment. That didn't change. We can't ask the rats what changed in their minds, but the only variable left is that something was unlocked and it was unlocked. [40:55] in their brain. [40:56] they suddenly had a hope, a belief that something might save them if they kept trying, if they kept persisting. [41:04] And this is the lesson for us. [41:05] That when we change our beliefs, we become more persistent, we unlock something that is always there within us, and we can achieve things that we never even imagined. And that's what becoming beyond belief is all about.

[41:19] I love it, brother. [41:20] I love it. Can't wait. Super excited. [41:24] near man like [41:26] This has been... [41:27] a true masterclass, um, [41:30] I again, selfishly, I asked the questions because there are some things I needed today. [41:35] You have no idea what that meant. [41:38] I love it on a camera. Anytime. We can go much deeper for sure. Oh, we didn't even scratch the surface. There's so much to be unbelief, but it was fun. We should do it again. [41:47] Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Well, again, bro, I'm honored to have you on. [41:52] I know you're busy, so I appreciate all that time. Enjoy hopping around. I know you're living the life right now, so enjoy that, man. [42:01] Whenever you need me, you just know I'm here for you, brother. [42:04] I appreciate that very much. Great to see you, Mick, and reach out anytime as well. Looking forward to talking again soon. [42:09] You got it to all the viewers and listeners. Remember you're because is your superpower. [42:14] Go Unleash It. [42:39] Thank you. [42:43] You know what I realized? The hardest part about building a website isn't making it look good. It's getting what's in my head onto the page. But I've been playing with the new Wix Harmony Editor, and I'm impressed. You can literally just tell it what you want, or if you're picky like me, jump in and move things around yourself. The nice part is, you can hop between AI and hands-on editing, so you end up with a site that actually looks the way you pictured it. Try it out for

[43:13] One of the biggest challenges of earning a degree as a military veteran is transitioning your goals and experiences to your next phase in life. National University gets it. [43:24] As a veteran-founded Yellow Ribbon School, they offer post-9/11 GI Bill acceptance. [43:30] dedicated military support and advising services, and credit for your military experience. That's why 30% of their students are military-affiliated, [43:39] and you. [43:40] education that serves those who served.