#2367 - Jesse Welles

[00:00] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day! [00:12] Cheers to you. Nice to meet you, man. Good to meet you. [00:17] I've enjoyed your songs. [00:21] How did you – well, first of all, how long have you been doing music? [00:25] Um... [00:26] I think... [00:27] Most of my life... [00:29] You know? [00:30] Um, [00:31] Did you grow up in a musical family or is it just something you picked up on your own? No. [00:37] Everyone... [00:39] Worked. [00:40] and made art when they weren't working. [00:43] Oh, okay. But, uh... [00:46] No music. [00:47] Really? [00:48] But I liked it. I like music. Like what kind of art did your family do? [00:52] Like my mom would always paint. [00:55] She put, like, murals on the walls of the house and stuff. And my old man's a mechanic. [01:02] Um... [01:02] And he would be tinkering around. [01:05] Thank you. [01:06] making all sorts of fun stuff, usually with his welder and whatnot. So I felt like they were artistic folks, you know, but they didn't. [01:17] They didn't necessarily... [01:18] do music you know they're smarter than that and so um i only know of you from the videos that you put up on instagram and specifically i think it was the united healthcare guy was the first one right which was really good dude it's the lyrics you and the timing of it all you captured the moment and that song to me was like yeah that's what the fuck is going on right that's what's

[01:48] make money and [01:50] that's why when this guy got shot, there was this reaction from people. Yeah. Which is very rare when someone gets assassinated when people celebrate. Right. When someone's not like a mass murderer or something. It was bizarre. It was bizarre. It's, it's, [02:04] I mean it must mean something is – if people are celebrating somebody's death, something is wrong. And all – across both sides of the aisle, it's not a political thing. It is a human thing. They're like, these people, they take your fucking money. You pay them. [02:20] And then when something comes up, you don't get covered. And there doesn't seem to be any repercussions. And to fight it, you have to go to court. And you usually don't have the money to go to court. And they have a lot of fucking money. And they have been doing this for a long time. And now they're using AI. Right. [02:38] to make sure that they pay less. So they're using AI to approve cases. [02:43] And the numbers are even lower than they were before. So UnitedHealthcare always had a lower number than industry standard, right? Yeah. Now it's even – with AI, they're going to be able to chop it down to even lower. It's like at what point in time does this become against the law? Like at what point in time is this like – it's a con game. Like you're paying – [03:04] you're thinking you're going to get covered, and they're like, nah. [03:09] The system would have to be revolutionized. I mean, you can't have health for profit at that point. You'd have to socialize the medicine at some point. Which I agree with up until a point. The problem is human nature. And like if you hurt your shoulder and you need to get an operation on your shoulder, you want to go to a guy who does the Lakers. You know what I mean?

[03:39] And he drives a fucking Mercedes, right? The reason why he drives a Mercedes is he makes a lot of money doing what he's doing. You don't want someone to not feel appreciated, not have... [03:48] the motivation to continue to get really great at their craft. There's a thing with just human beings. There's a financial motivation that people have because it's a quantitative thing. You can see it on a ledger. You know that you're making more money because you're doing this and you're working harder and you're getting this reward, whether or not it makes sense or not. As soon as you eliminate that and everybody gets the same amount of money, and then you lose all the killers. You lose all the... [04:18] You just don't want to have to go to an urgent care and it costs $500 to get a pack of antibiotics. 100%. Well, that's a giant scam. But that's a scam that so many folks are stuck in. That's the only part of the scam. [04:31] You know, the health care scam, it goes so deep. [04:35] There's so many different layers to this fucking horrible den of vampires. [04:42] you know, because it's [04:43] Whenever you can make profit off of people and you're involved in a corporation and then the corporation has an interest – its stockholders want more money every year. They want more money every quarter. So that's what they try to do. That's their focus. And when you're doing that with people's lives and people's health, like that – [05:04] That should be illegal. That's where it gets fucked. [05:07] I suppose that's why folks were... You know, it was upsetting to see...

[05:12] I felt like I actually had kind of an unpopular opinion about it and that why are we celebrating... [05:20] somebody's death. [05:22] That seems far out. [05:25] Just... [05:26] To celebrate. [05:27] the murder [05:29] Of somebody with a gun? [05:31] Not only that, I believe unrelated to him and his case. [05:38] I mean, how far out is that? And so I didn't want... [05:41] You know, I'd... [05:43] I make these tunes, but that one in particular, I was like, how do I even... [05:49] How do I adjust this? [05:52] What do you even say? So how do you approach something? Do you sit down with a pad and pen or do you start writing? Do you start singing? Step one is avoid the work. [06:03] So I went for some long jogs. I wrote a song about... [06:12] Amazon instead and put up like Amazon as Santa Claus. And I kept sitting there and it kept getting, you know, the situation was snowballing with the UnitedHealthcare. [06:24] And I was like, okay, you got to write. And at that point, it's a research project. Let's write 2,000 words so that we can have 300 to sing and boil down the essence of the issue and make it rhyme.

[06:44] And put a jolly tune behind it. That's really... [06:48] That's kind of how that goes about. That sounds like super similar to stand-up comedy. [06:53] You boil it down. Yeah. Yeah. Get every – and – [06:58] I... [07:00] And you don't [07:00] I'm not. [07:01] It's just punchlines. So find the punchline of everything. Find the punchline of everything. I never had the attention span to tell too much of a story or anything like that. So I like just keeping it in punchlines. So I always like Mitch Hedberg and Stephen Wright. [07:20] We're so good at that. Just come out and lay out a bunch of punchlines immediately. If one doesn't land, on to the next one. Well, their whole – that was the daunting thing about their act, which is so impressive, is that it's all non sequiturs. So every subject is new. Every time they open their mouth, it's a new subject. Right. [07:40] Which is kind of crazy. It's a crazy way to do comedy. Yeah. But when you're an absurdist, it's probably the best way because it's an absurd way to think. Right? You're just going from one subject to the next in each minute burst. Yeah. You know? [07:52] Somebody asked me if I want a frozen banana, and I said no, but I want a regular banana later, so yes. [08:01] Yeah. That's like such a ridiculous joke. I used to love listening to him in particular when I was in traffic because it would like chill me out. Like if I was headed to the airport in L.A. and it was just fucking clusterfuck on the highway. I would just throw on some Mitch Hedberg and just start giggling. It was just silly, you know?

[08:22] He's one of the coolest. He was awesome. [08:28] Let's play that song. Jamie, can you find that one? The UnitedHealthcare song? I want to play it so people know what we're talking about. [08:46] In UnitedHealth, there ain't no me in the company. There ain't no us in the private trust. There's hardly humans in humanity. Now the procedure that you're needing ain't the cost-effective route, and only 2% of people end up winning a dispute. So if you get sick, pray to God for help, because your doctor's got to pray to UnitedHealth. [09:16] Last year, the Warren Buffett of health, the Jeff Bezos of fear. Now, CEOs come and go and want just with the ingredients you got. Bake the cake you get, but if you get sick, cross your fingers for luck. Cause old Richard T. Berg can't give it a fuck. [09:33] Commoditized health monopolized fraud. Here's the doctors we own and the research we bought. They own the pharmacies and a lot of the meds. They should start buying graves to sell us when we're all dead. [09:46] UnitedHealth ain't no me in the company. There ain't no us in the private just. There's hardly humans in humanity. There's hardly humans in humanity.

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[11:39] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist and trust me, I know... [12:04] I buy one, the farmer's dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The farmer's dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier and isn't getting more time with our four-legged [12:34] I get best friends something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try the Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. [12:48] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. Fuck yeah, dude. That's a great song. That's a great song. [13:02] Interesting to me how few people are doing what you're doing. [13:07] I don't know of anyone else. I'm sure there probably is a few people out there that I miss, but I don't know of anybody else who takes things that are in the zeitgeist, these people,

[13:15] big stories that come up and turns them into a catchy tune and does it in a way where you're you laid out. [13:23] You know, really the problem and the whole thing, like you said, in punchlines. [13:27] Yeah. [13:28] You know, there's a lot of folks doing it right now and more every day. [13:36] But there was, I mean, there's a precedent for that kind of work. [13:40] um [13:41] Especially as far as like What he got through Was really [13:46] I was reading... [13:48] I was reading a Woody Guthrie biography... [13:51] um... [13:54] And, uh... [13:56] My old man was in the hospital. He had just had a heart attack, and we didn't know what way it was going to go or whatever. Anyway, I don't know, just seeing him all hooked up to that stuff and thinking... [14:09] If he were... If... If he died... [14:14] I've hardly had any time to even know him. He's hardly had any time... [14:19] to know anything. We don't get very long down here. And I'm reading this, this Woody Guthrie biography. And I was just like, [14:26] Oh, I'm going to... [14:28] I'm going to do this. I'm going to sing the news. [14:34] Because that's really what Woody was kind of... [14:37] was kind of doing in his day, uh, because there was, there's folk music around him, and he'd team up with Pete Seeger, and he was on radio programs, and he could have played, he had the, he had the choice, he could have played standards, he could have played country western music, and stuff like that, but he liked, making folks laugh, and,

[14:55] And he liked telling it how it was. I like both those things. I saw Woody Guthrie live when I was a little kid in San Francisco. [15:03] "Arlo or Woody?" [15:05] I think Woody. [15:06] Which one was alive back then? Was it Arlo? Yeah, when he died. Okay, so it must have been Arlo. So it was 19 – let me guess the year. I was 11? Yeah. [15:17] So maybe, yeah. [15:21] 10 or 11. Yeah. [15:23] No, it was San Francisco. So it had to be, I lived there until I was 11. So it was probably around [15:29] Nine or ten, now that I think about it. [15:32] But yeah, he performed live. God, I wish I could remember more of it. I mean, Arlo played... [15:37] Arlo played this kind of... [15:39] He went a little more surreal with it, which is super groovy. But... [15:44] He carried on the torch for his old man. So Woody died in what year? [15:48] 67. Yeah, 67. He got a Huntington's disease and was laid up in a home for quite a while. He lost the ability to speak and everything. What is a Huntington's disease? A rare genetic disorder. I don't really know what it does other than... [16:05] Yeah, look, he was pretty young. Breakdown of nerve cells in the brain. Yeah. His mother also suffered from the same illness. Yeah. What causes that? [16:15] You know, why do I have a feeling? Bad luck. Maybe not. Why do I have a feeling? There's some environmental toxin involved. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? He was sitting next to – he was in East Palestine.

[16:29] Pennsylvania? No way. No, no. I'm kidding. Oh, you're joking. But I mean that's – Well, obviously it's a different time, but there's so many parts of the country that have been polluted by industrial waste. Right. There's so much horrible shit out there. I mean maybe he was riding on trains and boxcars and stuff. [16:45] what they were hauling around. [16:47] and that sort of thing. But he, you know, he played the political tunes. Um, and [16:53] He... [16:56] He really... I don't... [16:58] And maybe he's a continuation of... [17:01] Um... [17:02] of a long-standing human tradition of like bards going from town to town and singing the news. I don't know. Maybe there was some medieval dude going around singing about the king. [17:15] I doubt it. I don't know, but maybe there was. Just because I don't know if it's a uniquely American tradition, but [17:24] And when I do it, I get romantic about it and kind of think of it as a uniquely American tradition because you've got the freedom to do it. Right. And no one's gunning me down in the field there or anything for anything I say. [17:40] Yeah, that's why I doubt if anybody was ever doing anything the way you do it when they were doing it about the king. [17:50] The knights go hunt him down or something. Yeah, maybe a few guys tried, but I bet they killed him. Or maybe you hired – you co-opted the bard.

[18:02] "'You turned him into your fool.' [18:04] Your jester or whatever. And then he sang songs for you about how fat the neighbor king was. I think that's a different guy. I think you're dealing with a different guy. The guy who is the jester, that's the fucking vampire familiar. You know? You know? Like in Blade, the guys will get close to the vampires. Because they eventually one day want to be a vampire. They promised it. Who was in Lord of the Rings? Who was like Theoden's dude? Worm tongue? Something? [18:33] Anyway. I don't remember. I don't remember. People very close. But that's always the Dracula story. There's always a familiar. There's always a human that does the bidding of the vampire. [18:44] Mm-hmm. [18:47] Oh, that guy. Yeah, perfect. Exactly. [18:50] Yeah, same kind of guy. [18:53] fucking creep with a questionable hard drive. Did he... [18:58] Was he in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest? Was he? God, that seems weird. Is that like Billy Babbitt? He would be so old. Yeah. [19:06] One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nestle. Was it 67 or something? Yeah. That was a long time ago. [19:11] I mean, but... [19:12] That guy's been in everything. [19:15] That's him now? [19:16] Not now. [19:17] Yeah, that's what I'm saying. [19:20] Isn't that crazy? Time is such a motherfucker. [19:26] Okay. He was in one floor. It was a cuckoo's nest. Far out. Oh, wow. [19:30] Yeah. 75.

[19:33] That's a great fucking movie, too. Yeah. That's an eye-opening movie about health care, speaking of which. Well, yeah, in an era of sanatoriums and stuff where you – Right, and then people glorify that as like, we need more mental health institutes. That's why there's so many homeless people on the street. I'm like, have you ever been? [19:55] We definitely need more mental health. 100% those people need care. But do they need the kind of care that they were getting? [20:02] Before they were released on the street when they were giving people electroshock therapy and fucking cooking their brains? Those – at least whatever is going on in One Floor of the Cookies' Nest is essentially a prison. [20:12] Yeah. [20:13] A prison with electroshock therapy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and lobotomies until like 67. Yeah. They were just cooking people's brains with a wand, getting in there and scrambling up your brain. Yeah. [20:27] It says... Dude, they did lobotomies for decades. Yeah. Decades. [20:32] Until enough people had their loved ones turned into zombies that they were like, hey, maybe we should probably fucking stop that. Didn't they lobotomize Kennedy? Yep. [20:44] Apparently – [20:45] She was just wild. [20:47] Yeah. That's all it was. First of all – So I would have been lobotomized – [20:51] I don't know if you will. Yeah, probably. Yeah, I mean, first of all, the men were wild. She was wild sexually. Is that part of the accusation that she was very promiscuous? They had a problem with her and they wanted her to calm down. So they fucking scrambled her brains. And apparently she became non-functional. Like they really kind of, they, you know, they dialed it up to 10.

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[22:43] 23. [22:44] uh, [22:45] So Joe Sr. decided, 23, decided Rosemary should have a lobotomy. However, he did not inform his wife. [22:51] Oh, my God, until after the procedure was completed. The procedure took place November 1941. [22:58] Sins of the Father in the book, 1996 biography. James W. Watts, who carried out the procedure with Walter Freeman, both of George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences, described to Kessler as follows. After Rosemary was mildly sedated, we went through the top of her head, Dr. Watts recalled. I think she was awake. She had a mild tranquilizer. I made a surgical incision in the brain through the skull. It was near the front. [23:24] It was on both sides. We just made a small incision, no more than an inch. The instruments Dr. Watts used looked like a butter knife. He swung it up and down to cut brain tissue. We put an instrument inside, he said, as Dr. Watts cut. Dr. Freeman asked Rosemary some questions. For example, he asked her to recite the Lord's Prayer or sing God Bless America or to count backward. We made an estimate on how far to cut based on how she responded. [23:51] When Rosemary began to become incoherent, they stopped. [23:55] What a tragedy. Holy cow. [24:00] Whew. [24:02] Scroll back up. Go back up. [24:05] Scroll up so I can hear it. How many folks were getting these? The nuns of the covenant thought that Rosemary might become involved with sexual partners and that she could contact a sexually transmitted disease or become pregnant. Her occasionally erratic behavior frustrated her parents.

[24:22] So she got expelled from summer camp. [24:25] and she was staying [24:27] It says, and staying only for a few months at a Philadelphia boarding school, Kennedy was sent to a convent school in Washington, D.C. Kennedy began sneaking out of the convent school at night. [24:38] The nuns in the convent thought that she might be involved with sexual partners and that she might get an STD or become pregnant. [24:45] And so then they decided to give her a fucking lobotomy. I don't know. [24:49] Imagine that you send a young, healthy girl to a convent with a bunch of fucking creepy nuns. And she just like breaks out in the middle of the night, like go to hang out with her friends or go meet up with a guy or fucking something. Yeah. And so they go, well, the solution to this is cut her brain. [25:06] and [25:06] have her talk until she can't talk anymore and then we know when to stop cutting that's insane [25:12] Meanwhile, Kennedy's got his. That wasn't even a hundred. He's running his escapades. Oh, yeah, they all were. The father was. I don't know whether it's true or not true because we used to say it and then there's been things disputing it. But of course, who knows how much money is involved in this in the first place. But supposedly, Kennedy Sr. was involved in illegal liquor during the time where there was prohibition in this country. I thought he was a mobster. [25:39] He definitely knew some people, which was what helped his son win Illinois. Right. Yeah. It's just like I don't know what's true and what's not true in terms of him being a moonshine runner. Right. But it tracks. You know, and the whole family. It seems like an incredibly lucrative business to get into during Prohibition. I don't know who –

[25:59] Who wouldn't be running liquor? Especially when you can control the police, you know, especially when you had money and you were involved and you had your foot dipped in all sorts of organized crime and, you know. [26:11] Then you had souped-up NASCAR cars that they were using to drive. That's where NASCAR comes from. Yeah, I guess that's the roots of – [26:16] Yeah. Running from the cops. If it weren't for Joe, we wouldn't have had Dale. Yeah, right? Wouldn't have had the loop. Yeah, it's – [26:28] It's just a crazy practice that they did for a long, long time just to [26:34] Get rid of people that were a problem. So what's the modern lobotomy? What are we doing right now that we're going to read on wiki – [26:43] Or, you know, whatever. There's probably quite a few of them. 15. There's probably quite a few. Holy cow. [26:49] I'm sure gender transitions for children – I'm sure that's going to be on that list. Or taking – [26:55] I don't know, like... like... [26:57] prescribing benzos and stuff. Oh, that's going to be on that list for sure. Benzos are the craziest one. Just like a chemical lobotomy. Well, benzo doesn't give you a chemical lobotomy, but it does make you 100% hooked on it. Yeah, it's just the stress you would undergo getting out of the addiction, you might never come back fully. It gets your life all the way back after an addiction like that. [27:27] problem and it is a real struggle right like jordan peterson has publicly talked about it it took him over a year to recover physically just from being addicted and that's actually going to rehabs and stuff like that there's a lot of folks most folks they ain't going they don't have the money nowhere right now they get off it and then drink themselves to death or or do cocaine or do something yeah find some find something or you know or the psychiatrist puts you on some new

[27:57] You can get off one and hop over to the other. Uh-huh. [28:00] Yeah. Go back and forth. It's a real problem. And when someone gets on that ride, it's hard to get off. [28:06] It's hard to get off the take this pill to fix it ride. [28:09] Yeah. That ride is a very popular ride. Yeah. [28:13] I mean... [28:14] you [28:16] Folks like having a... [28:18] Having a doctor tell him [28:20] It's all right, you know. I guess it's like a... [28:25] It's like they get it, they're [28:27] An authority figure told them it's all good to take this pill, you know. [28:32] Not only that, especially with benzos, especially in the early days, nobody even told them that it was almost impossible to get off of. [28:41] I mean, could a patient kind of figure that out pretty quick? Well, they don't because they keep taking it, right? You keep taking it because you're addicted to it. If you forget. [28:51] "'Forget a dose.' [28:53] Thank you. [28:53] You start feeling those withdrawals come in, you know, or... [28:56] Well, apparently with... [28:58] Find this out if this is true. Apparently one of the things about benzodiazepine is that [29:05] It alleviates anxiety, but if you stop taking it, your anxiety maybe even elevates past where it was before you first took it. Oh, yeah. So there's like a slingshot effect. That's what I'm saying. When you get off of anything, all sorts of stuff rattles loose in your head, man. For sure. For sure. And everything gets worse for a period of time. But what I was going to get at is it's one of the few where you could die if you get off of it. Right. It's like that and alcohol.

[29:35] So here it is. During early withdrawal, an individual may experience a return of anxiety and insomnia symptoms as the brain rebounds without the drugs. [29:44] But does it say... [29:47] How long does it last? Many people stop taking these medications and experience increased anxiety or restlessness referred to as rebound anxiety. Rebound effects from benzo withdrawal such as anxiety or insomnia typically last two to three days. I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. I mean, the insomnia itself is... [30:07] Is enough to cause all sorts of different. [30:10] Oh, yeah. [30:11] How long does Benzo belly? What is that? [30:15] Benzo belly can depend. Is it like a diarrhea? Such as the type of dose of benzo. What does it mean? Some people experience... [30:24] What was that? [30:26] What does it say it is? [30:28] Benzo belly. What to know? Put that on. Common side of – oh, cramps. Yeah, gastrointestinal symptoms. Oh, well, you're fucking poisoning your insides. Add that to the – To the Pepto list. Your body's like, what are you doing? Oh, look at – you could get nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, bloating, ingest – you know how they do that at the end of the commercial? Yeah. Indigestion, loss of appetite, constipation, weight loss. [30:47] Bloody diarrhea. You might want to die. That's the craziest ones when the side effects of antidepressants are suicide. [30:56] Yeah. [30:57] There ain't no you in United. [31:04] Folks are making money. Yeah. Keep the money rolling in. Yeah, as long as they keep mushrooms illegal. There's a lot of things that could be fixed in a very natural way that people have been doing for thousands of years that you can't do.

[31:19] At least in Texas, they opened up Ibogaine again. [31:21] Right. So that's new where, you know, they're going to do these. They've done so far these trials with soldiers and it's super effective, man, especially for getting off drugs. Yeah. Like really, really, really effective, like 80 percent for one dose in the 90s for two dose. People just quit pills, quit everything, quit drinking, whatever. [31:51] behavior patterns and they don't know why. They don't know how to get out of them. They keep falling into them because they're like tightly grooved into the way you think. Yeah. And unless you can leave for a moment the connection that you have to this existence where you're completely continually trapped by your patterns, unless you can leave and look at those patterns, you're just fighting against so much gravity and so much momentum. [32:21] You're around the same people. There's so many things that make it very difficult to really change your life outside of escaping briefly and getting a look at it from some… So there's like I've again like… [32:36] Like smooth out all the ruts? I began – I've never done it, so I can't really speak to this. But from the people that have done it, what they explain – [32:45] That does. First of all, it actually stops physical addiction somehow. They don't totally understand how it's doing this, but it stops physical addiction and sort of rewires the way your brain, for lack of a better term, looks at addiction.

[33:02] It's not a drug that you could abuse recreationally. Apparently, it's not a fun time. And it's a 24-hour experience. And this 24-hour experience. Is it psychedelic? Yes. And this 24-hour experience is essentially a review of your life. And showing you, like, you remember this happened. These guys beat you up after school. And then that sent you down this road. And then this is why you think about this and this. [33:32] life do you have a like a spirit guide i don't know i don't know i mean i think i have a game council you mean while you're doing it yeah yes yeah yeah yeah they they have centers what is the place called in mexico that uh former republican governor rick perry is an advocate of this right and he went to that is it beyond b-e-o-n-d [33:55] But for the longest time, they've been doing these things down in Mexico because it's legal there. Right. Does Ayahuasca do something similar? Yes. A lot of people go down to Costa Rica and do that. Or there are certain churches that have a religious exemption in America. Which is wild. What? You go to church and really meet Jesus? Yeah. Like for real, for real. Like Utah or Wyoming. Like New Mexico, places like that. [34:25] somewhere where like, "Well, how many followers you got? You got 1,400?" [34:28] Don't get too big. I've been to a church in a couple of basements. Really?

[34:34] Well, you know, the weird thing is if anybody wants to start a new church now, like, good luck. They'll crawl up your fucking ass with a microscope. Like, if you want to start a new church now, it better be a Christian church. Like, you better be following the same religions that the people have been following for thousands and thousands of years. Because if you try to cook up a new religion today, they will Waco you, son. They will fucking... [34:55] Yeah. [34:56] I mean... [34:58] You get a good following? Religions, they get weirder and weirder. I don't know. [35:04] in America, they get weirder and weirder the more west we went, the more we manifest destinied out. That's a good point. [35:16] land and New England. [35:20] And... [35:21] The weirdest of them move a little bit more west, or they just go to – the Quakers just go to like Nantucket. They'll be on an island and be isolated. But eventually, in about 100 years, you've got – [35:33] Mormons? [35:34] Yep. You know? [35:37] Give it another hundred-something. Then you got Scientology out in California. Yep. Right? [35:43] Have you seen American Primeval? [35:46] The Netflix series? No. Really good. Really good. And it's about the settling of the West, but a big part of it is the Mormons. Right. And how fucking gangster the – we think of Mormons as being like these really sweet people, like – [35:59] uh-uh no not back then no no no no nothing nothing was in the west man yeah it was it was death and car like uh i don't know i i imagine it like blood meridian like like mccarthy's mccarthy's book where basically you know like follows the story like this kid who goes on a scalping mission you know where their their job is to go down into guadalajara and then come up in through the states

[36:29] discriminately and then take those scalps back for dough. It's, you know, for a bounty. Which is crazy. How much is the scalps worth? I don't know. Imagine that. You just find some dude who's like... [36:41] fucking... [36:43] taking care of a lawn or something like that. I take that over a lobotomy. [36:48] My scalp. Some people lived. Grow back. Yeah, yeah. There's people that lived. Yeah, it's really crazy. I've seen that picture. Yeah. I had a top hat on over this giant... [36:58] Wound. Wound over the top of his head, which I wonder how long he lived because he basically had like an open – [37:05] skull facing the earth. I guess you play dead. [37:10] While it's going down. Maybe they just let him live. I don't know, man. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. There is such a thing as having too many options to choose from. Like when you're scrolling on the TV trying to find something to watch or – [37:24] Have you been to one of those ice cream shops where they have hundreds of different toppings to choose from? It's overwhelming. The same thing can happen when you're hiring and you get inundated with applications. Well, it's time to stop stressing and use ZipRecruiter instead. Their innovative resume database can help you find and connect with the best people for your role. Try it for free now at ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. [37:54] the advanced filtering feature. [37:56] You can use it to hone in on exactly what you're looking for from the hundreds of thousands of resumes that are uploaded monthly to the site. And when you find a potential candidate, you can unlock their contact info instantly. Skip the candidate overload. Streamline your hiring with ZipRecruiter. See why four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.

[38:26] Again, right now, try it for free. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash Rogan. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. [38:36] Chihuahua's bounty program offered fortune seekers 150 to 200 Mexican pesos for each Apache, depending on age and sex. Men worth 50 pesos more than women and children. [38:50] And children... [38:51] Yeah. Today that equates to about $8,200 per scalp. This is far more than most prospectors would ever make in the California gold fields. $8,000 per scalp. [39:04] That's crazy. [39:06] how many people [39:07] just... [39:08] innocent people. [39:10] That just happened to have dark hair got scalped. [39:13] They would – like in McCarthy's book at least, which follows the Glanton gang, I'm pretty sure at times they kill some of their own gang. I'm sure. Just because they were dark-haired. The most prolific of these operatives was an Irish-American named James Kirker who led a massacre of more than 150 Apaches in 1846 and ultimately killed at least 320 Indians during his bounty hunting campaigns. [39:40] Scalp trade. [39:43] $8,200 for scalps. [39:46] Can you imagine if you... [39:48] If you have a lawless country... [39:51] Which is essentially what the Wild West was. What that was, yeah. And then you offer up $8,000 every time you kill a person. Yeah. Ooh, you can get rid of people quick. And you're going to have the wildest of the wild are going to go out there and tame that land, man.

[40:08] The craziest to the crazy. And that's essentially. Calls them out. [40:16] And that wasn't that long ago. No. That's what's so crazy. Yeah. [40:21] You know, we're talking about 150 years. Like, what is it? How long ago was it? Not that long ago. [40:29] In California, scalp warfare eliminated nearly 90% of some tribal populations. Holy fuck, man. Were they doing that into the 1890s? [40:41] Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. That's 135 years ago. [40:48] Thank you. [40:49] How good? [40:50] How crazy is that? [40:51] Thank you. [40:53] It's pretty wild. That's hard to believe. [40:56] Direct government support for bounty payouts. Whoa. Direct government support for bounty payouts with blunt calls for the extermination of tribes and mass murder of men, women and children. [41:09] provides an important new perspective on the question of genocide across the long arc of Euro-American interaction with Native communities. [41:17] The Apache scalp that FBI agents seized in 2022 is one of thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, that were taken, redeemed, displayed in rare cases like this one, preserved as a part of a long and gruesome history of scalp warfare. [41:31] So... [41:32] - [41:34] So it was in an auction house? [41:36] That's how they found it?

[41:39] Whoa. FBI investigating Apache scalps seized from Fairfield Auction House. The item was seized from the Puleen Art Antiques and Auction House as part of an investigation into the illegal trafficking of human remains. [41:58] Whoa. And like when... [42:02] Imagine someone kept that. When does the karma come in on this bloodshed that founded? Well, I'm certain it did for the individuals involved. [42:15] I just, I wonder if it's generational, if these things... [42:19] Thank you. [42:21] If the universe will... [42:23] continue to sort itself out over this time. [42:28] I think this is a very unique time for understanding people. You know, I think... [42:35] We have to – when people look at all the conflict and all the drama with human beings right now, you have to realize, yes – [42:46] Yes, we could certainly live better lives, and we certainly had a... [42:50] We can certainly have a better civilization than we have right now. We can do better. But we also have to realize what we're coming from. Like to make an adjustment from 1890 to 2025 – [43:01] I mean, this is a big swing of this fucking battleship. Unrecognizable. People were horrible... [43:08] all throughout human history. I think that's what we really have to come to grips with. It's not just, I mean, we can go back to the Mongol invasions in the 19, what was the year, the year 1200? How long ago was that? What year was that?

[43:23] Mm-hmm. [43:24] With the Mongols. [43:26] I think it was in the 1200s. [43:28] You know, I mean, the Inquisition, we can go to World War I, World War II. People were fucking horrible forever. [43:37] And it's just more people are talking about it now than ever before. [43:42] You had universities in America, which were – the anti-war movement started in the 1960s and the hippies, and they were starting to get acid and realize there's more to life. This is bullshit. The way our parents are living is bullshit. They're miserable, and they're going to die. Yeah. [43:58] It takes a long time to turn this big-ass battleship around. [44:02] But... [44:03] I think we have to give ourselves some understanding about the past and realize like part of the reason why we're so fucked up today is like look what we come from. [44:12] Right. Yeah. Look where we come from. I know we can do better. We definitely can do better. We should do better. We should have a way better life, way better society. But look where we come from. Right. [44:22] We come from madness. Yeah. [44:25] Absolute chaos. [44:26] Chaos and bloodshed, my friend. It's just the ability that... [44:32] A person has to sign off a person in the government say, yeah, OK, give them some money so they go kill some Indians indiscriminately. [44:40] Give them $8,000 per scalp and a little less for the women and children. [44:46] *Sigh* [44:49] You know, 130 years ago, 140 years ago, 150 years ago. That's nothing, man. That's nothing. You know, that's your great-grandpa.

[44:57] He was alive back then. [45:00] Hard to believe. [45:02] It's far out. It really is, man. I wonder if things are... [45:08] You know, probably seem a lot cleaner. [45:12] As far as chaos and bloodshed now in the Continental... [45:18] US and the union and stuff but [45:21] who... [45:23] is sending folks to go do that abroad. [45:28] To protect the homeland under the – [45:32] under the auspices of [45:34] Thank you. [45:35] Protecting the homeland who's doing the exact same thing. Yeah, they were doing then just a different way because I really I really think we we [45:43] We stay this... [45:45] As much as has changed, and we can measure that. We can totally camp. [45:51] But I think also we stay the same. [45:53] you know, [45:55] Well, until we're forced to change. Until something or until we recognize the need to change collectively. [46:01] Yeah. But there has to be a discussion of it. It's not something that just organically happens. [46:07] You know? [46:08] Thank you. [46:09] I think of like... [46:12] Jersey... [46:13] I've... [46:14] This is Hollywood, but Apocalypse Now? [46:18] Sure. [46:19] Francis Ford Coppola and Martin Sheen. [46:24] Marlon Brando and... [46:26] Dennis Hopper And Robert Duvall And

[46:30] All those cool cats and... Dope movie. But... [46:34] It's written on this... [46:38] premise of a book that was written in... [46:41] like 1899 by Joseph Conrad, like Heart of Darkness. Oh wow, it's that old? And [46:48] "'Heart of Darkness,' [46:50] was talking about... [46:52] Thank you. [46:53] a conquest of, I believe the Dutch, I'm not sure, into... [46:58] the Congo. [47:00] and [47:02] some [47:02] atrocities and stuff that were happening there treating people as subhuman and I don't know if there was I don't know if there was scalping or anything but I think that there was slavery and that sort of thing but [47:15] Coppola was able to adapt that [47:17] And then put the Vietnam War. [47:20] as the new premise. [47:22] Going into... [47:24] I think they, I think Sheen's mission and the... [47:29] in the movie at least, was to go... [47:31] go up river and... [47:35] Cambodia or Laos, I'm not sure which. [47:38] and take out a rogue... [47:41] US general who had basically enslaved a population of [47:48] of indigenous there. [47:52] I [47:53] All that to say, I wonder if... [47:56] Like in... [47:57] in Vietnam, if the folks fighting out there felt like in that moment, in that moment where you're

[48:06] where you're killing somebody, [48:08] If you realize at that point that nothing has ever changed... [48:14] And that this is... [48:17] There's something primeval... [48:20] in man with this violence, that this violence is innate. [48:26] Or, you know, is this violence innate? Is it... [48:30] Is this how folks are and there's no helping it? And there's nothing that's ever going to change it? Because you can get kind of cynical that way. Or... [48:38] And I kind of tend on this more idealistic and at times it seems naive or stupid. [48:46] to [48:47] have an ideal that [48:49] Folks can... [48:51] could live in harmony and peace. [48:54] without taking one another's lives, you know? [48:57] Thank you. [48:59] The problem is they've never done it before. [49:02] That's mind-boggling. Mind-boggling. Because it is in all... [49:07] I think it's in a lot of us. [49:10] deep down to... I don't... [49:12] Well, it has to be because it's the only way we survived. That's the only way we got to where we are today. Right. Because we existed before language. We existed before… [49:22] empathy before we understood each other before we communicate so any being that you didn't know from somewhere else wanted what you had and they would try to take it by four so the bigger stronger ones survived and that's why the best genetics kept going and going and going i mean it was survival of the fittest it exists in nature and exists with humans and that's the basis of our dna unfortunately like that's how we started right and so that

[49:47] The way it manifests itself today is fucking drone warfare and bombs and dropping bunker busters out of B-2s. That's what it is. Or B-12. Is that what it is? The B-12? [50:00] What's the big one? [50:02] Me too. [50:03] It feels like it should be a bigger number because it looks like a spaceship. [50:08] You see how they flew it over Putin? Like, look at my dick, my flying dick. [50:14] You see Trump did that when Putin was in Alaska. [50:18] They flew a bomber over his head like, what are we doing? What? [50:22] Why are we flying the radar-resistant bomber? [50:27] Over Putin's head. It sounds like a show of force. Look at my dude. This is what... [50:34] These games. [50:38] Is it... Yeah, I just... [50:41] I wonder, is it within... [50:43] Humans... [50:46] to [50:47] to exist in peace without... Well, we certainly can... It couldn't be done. ...in small groups, right? Like if you, me, and Jamie, I've said this before, but, you know, about other guests, if we were on an island all together, we wouldn't... [51:00] lock each other up. We wouldn't. We just, we just figure it out. Like, okay, I'm going to go fishing today. We need firewood. You want to get the firewood? I'm going to go for a long jog. Okay, get that jog in. Get your cardio in. You know what I'm saying? Like, we wouldn't, there's only a limited amount of us. We wouldn't.

[51:19] have a need to go to war. [51:22] And most war today is about resources. Most war today is about controlling parts of the world where there's an infinite amount of money in the ground, whether it's oil or now it's rare earth minerals and stuff they need for batteries. And that's what a lot of it is. I mean, that's what a lot of conflict is in this world. [51:42] And that's gross. It's scary. [51:45] It's scary, but if you ask... [51:47] The average person, like, what are the odds that there will be no more war in your lifetime? And they'll say 0%. Yeah. Everyone will say 0%. I don't know. It's so far out. It's just – like, I think – [51:59] Thank you. [52:00] You know, the folks that... [52:01] that go to war. Like, if you... [52:05] If he signed up and went to Iraq and, you know, and like, oh... [52:11] 03 [52:12] and you're securing... [52:15] or maybe not Iraq, but you're going to Afghanistan and you're securing... [52:21] opium fields [52:23] and stuff and [52:25] You're out there, you're risking your life [52:27] You got the gun on. [52:29] You... [52:30] are prepared to take somebody's life. [52:34] But for what? [52:36] We need opium. What are you asking? We'll fight. [52:44] Thank you. [52:45] It seems like for the sake of [52:48] Just for the sake of the hunt or something like that. Well, if you ask the soldiers when they're signing up, hey, do you want to go to Afghanistan and guard poppy fields? They've been like, what? No, I want to fight terrorism, motherfucker. I want to stop the people that did 9-11 from doing it again. That's why a lot of people signed up. But then the reality kicks in once you're standing around poppy fields with a machine gun.

[53:10] Oh. [53:11] Oh, this is a scam. [53:13] And, you know, I don't know how much Internet access they had while they were over there. But if they did and never Googled what percentage of all heroin comes from Afghanistan, the answer they would have got is 94 percent. Yeah. They would have been like, wait, let's talk about Service Titan. Over 10,000 contractors already run their businesses on Service Titan. Now they're building an A.I. trained on real trades workflows. This isn't generic A.I. This is A.I. built specifically for contracting work. [53:43] HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and more. It's booking calls, helping run your back office, and growing your revenue automatically. Every other industry is still trying to figure out AI. The trades are about to lead from the front. Service Titan, the AI for the trades. Learn more at servicetitan.ai. This episode is brought to you by Gold Belly. Gold Belly will ship you the most [54:13] from Terry Blacks in Austin, massive, juicy beef ribs that take a day to cook, and you just [54:19] sink your teeth into them, Gold Belly will ship them to you anywhere. [54:24] And you've heard me talk about Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles from L.A. Man, now you don't have to sit in L.A. traffic to get some of that chicken. Just order on Gold Belly. So ship, Dad, something awesome from the most iconic restaurants across the USA. Go to goldbelly.com and get 20% off your first order with the promo code ROGAN. That's goldbelly.com, promo code ROGAN. What is this? So then it takes a larger – it takes –

[54:53] essentially a psyop [54:55] In order to get... [54:57] "'Men to fight.' [54:59] for the interests... [55:01] Of the people who are performing the psyop. Yes. You have to create a psyop that puts a narrative out there that makes it noble for us to be doing what we're doing. Noble. Noble. We're such suckers. Yeah. It's a noble cause. What's more noble than letting somebody live? Yeah. We're less suckers now than ever before. But yes, a lot of us are suckers for these narratives. Well, I'm – [55:24] I'm a sucker for it. Oh, I am too. Everyone is. Did you ever read that War is a Racket? [55:31] Smedley Butler. Did you ever read it? No. It's really good. It's not long. It's really good. And it is essentially outlining what we're talking about. But it was in 1933. And Smedley Butler, who, when he went to all these places and did all this work, he thought that he was... [55:50] doing good he thought he was protecting people even though but then at the end of his career when it all like the fog of war had kind of faded and he recognized the patterns like oh each time pull it up jimmy just so we can get a look at it was smedley the one where there was a coup and they had asked him to they asked him to take they asked him to overthrow the fucking government there was a documentary i used to watch uh by francis o'connelly i think is his name but it's

[56:20] Yeah, he was a bad man. [56:23] in a good way. But this thing that he wrote, so you can get just a – [56:30] If you go to the Wikipedia site, Wars of Iraq. I mean, it was before even World War II. [56:37] There it is right there. It contains the summary. Make that a little larger, please. [56:42] Who makes the profits? It says war is a racket. It always has been. It's possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It's the only one international in scope. It is the only one international. [56:54] in which profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to be to the majority of people. [57:04] Only a small inside group knows what it's all about. It's conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the very many. [57:14] Out of war, a few people make huge fortunes. Butler confessed that during his decades of service to the United States Marine Corps, I helped Mexico, especially Tampico, save for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. [57:41] I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1909 and 1912, where I've learned – where have I heard of that name before? I don't know. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916.

[57:59] China, I helped see to it that standard oil went its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I have given Al Capone. I might have given Al Capone a few hints. [58:12] Kind of crazy. [58:13] Yeah. [58:15] Because they've been doing that forever. [58:18] And if it wasn't for this one guy writing about it, this one very decorated man who – pull up the thing about the coup. [58:28] where they tried to enlist him, which is part of the reason why I'm sure he wrote this. He was like, what the fuck is this? You guys want to take over the United States government force? Now imagine if they were successful. Imagine a military coup. [58:44] really did work in like 1930 or whatever it was, how fucked we would be now. [58:48] I don't know, I'm being... [58:50] Like, it's interesting how – [58:52] History pivots oftentimes. [58:54] Like one or two crucial... [58:56] Right. [58:58] And this guy saying no to this, who knows what would have happened if he said yes. [59:05] Is that the premise of Man in the High Castle, Philip K.? [59:09] Dick. Is it? [59:10] I don't know. [59:11] I should read more, Joe. [59:13] business plot is that what we're talking about not the coup the coup [59:20] We're talking about the coup. I know. Nothing in his Wikipedia says coup, but business plot comes up at the end. What is the business plot? That's what I think he was talking about. [59:28] about how this was all military, like the military industrial complex stuff before it started.

[59:33] Right, but wasn't there a thing where they tried to enlist him to do something? [59:37] I mean, this was after he was retired. He's gone on anti-war lectures. [59:41] It might have been. It just goes into his whole career here, and Koo wasn't like a... [59:45] A highlighted paragraph. Is that just in Wikipedia, though? [59:48] Can you just see if there's anything about it online because it might not be something that Wikipedia would put in? [59:56] He had a whole bunch of nicknames. Did he? Did he see that whole list of nicknames? You kill a lot of folks. You get a lot of nicknames. Gee whiz. [1:00:04] it's it's so weird to see when you think about going what's that jen and business plot pops up people used to have fun nicknames so it was a business plot so it's not necessarily like a military coup like what was the actual plot wall street putsch [1:00:21] Political conspiracy in 1933, the United States to overthrow – oh, this it is – overthrow the government of the president, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and install Smedley Butler as dictator. Butler, retired Marine Corps, major general, testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans organization with him as its leader and use it as a coup d'etat to overthrow Roosevelt. [1:00:46] In 1934, Butler testified under oath before the United States House of Representatives Special Committee on Un-American Activities. [1:00:54] on these revelations, although no one was prosecuted, the Congressional Committee was prosecuted, you would think that that might... [1:01:02] put you in jail. You're trying to overthrow the fucking government. These folks get away with it. But it's kind of crazy. No one was prosecuted, although no one was prosecuted. The Congressional Committee final report said there's no question these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it

[1:01:23] expedient you know it's funny that no one was prosecuted but if you did insider trading you go straight to the pokey martha stewart no one was prosecuted for that they put martha stewart in jail [1:01:36] For lying to the cops. But not... But there's actual... You know, there's Congress folks that do it all the time. They made an example out of the... [1:01:44] Martha Stewart, I suppose. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, there's... [1:01:50] Nancy Pelosi is now estimated to be worth $400 million. [1:01:54] You know, and that she's just a great job. It's a great job. What a great job to have. I should have gone into what makes you wonder when you have $400 million and you're 82 years old, shouldn't you be like going on cruises and just like enjoying your time off? And why are you still working? [1:02:09] What are you doing? Lust for power. No, I really care about these people are clinging with the with their dying breath to every ounce of power. No, no, no. I care. I care about the American people. Who really genuinely believes that anybody cares about us? Oh, there's some lobotomized, no pun intended, suckers out there. [1:02:32] No. There's some suckers out there. And then there's a lot of bots. There's a lot of people that aren't real people. [1:02:38] that are [1:02:39] commenting on both sides of the issue. Like on the internet, yeah. [1:02:43] On both sides of it. [1:02:45] Stay out of the comments, kids. Stay out of commentary because it's not real. If you're interacting with narratives that are propped up, might be propped up by AI, might be propped up by bad state actors. There's a lot going on, folks. It's not all people talking about things, and that should be illegal. Are there bot wars now? 100%.

[1:03:06] Yeah. [1:03:07] Yeah, 100%. There's bots fighting against bots. Versus your bots. 100%. [1:03:12] It's probably a giant chunk of the Internet. [1:03:14] Are they actual bots or are they like people in a call center? Both things. Both things. Both things are real. There's AI for sure that people are running programs that are saying certain things. But there's also people that get hired to do it. [1:03:28] There's some – these pro-American sites and then people have done like an IP trace and they find out these people are in fucking Karachi. They're in fucking Pakistan. They're in India. They're in China. It's like who knows who's doing it and why they're doing it. But there's a bunch of foreign countries that would have a vested interest in keeping America very unstable. [1:03:58] That's good for them. It's good to crush our faith in democracy and make people consider communism. And it gets really weird when you have a bunch of people that are throwing a bunch of opinions into any sort of like real – [1:04:16] important discussion about civilization, and you realize like, oh my god, 80% of the people talking are [1:04:23] aren't just people. Yeah. They're either being hired to do this, or it's AI, or they're bots. It seems to be like manufactured chaos in order... [1:04:33] to [1:04:34] Take the air out of the room to suffocate information. Also to make laws so they can clamp down on dissent.

[1:04:43] So the more you can have chaos online, the more it becomes unmanageable? [1:04:48] the more you have to manage it. Right, right. Right, and the more people ask you to come in and save them. Please save us. Save us from this. There should be laws. Hate speech shouldn't be legal. That's kind of the idea behind, like, the false flag. 100%. Gun gangs are, like... [1:05:09] I don't know. Well, that's what got us into Vietnam. I think like Vegas. Yeah. [1:05:13] Yeah. Like the Mandalay Bay thing. Like there's a lot of theories behind that one. That's a weird one. That's a weird one. That one is going to bother me forever. Because that one actually happened while I was... [1:05:25] awake and paying attention and it just... nothing lines up with it. You weren't there, were you? Were you in Vegas at the time? No. No, I was sitting in Nashville, but I just met... I was... [1:05:39] I was paying attention. Yeah. That was a crazy one. And there's multiple reports of more than one person shooting. And then there was like, how did he get 400 pounds of equipment into his room without anybody noticing it? [1:05:54] That seems crazy. [1:05:56] A rifle case is a very distinctive kind of case. I'm assuming he's carrying some kind of pelican box, something, some snap-down box. That's a pretty big box, man. If you've got a bunch of those and you're bringing them in along with boxes of ammunition, how much does that weigh? How strong are you?

[1:06:18] If you had to carry 400 pounds of shit into a hotel room... [1:06:22] That would take a long time. That dude wasn't doing all of it. That's what I'm saying. And I mean, didn't like the security guard witness go on Ellen to explain it? Yeah. Did they? Yeah. Was that? Was his name Jesus? Yeah. [1:06:35] Yeah, Campos. Jamie's all over this. Are you all over this one? I've been all over this from the jump. Oh, okay. Is it you? Yeah. This is one of the ones I know a lot. Oh, speak to us, young Jamie. Speak to us. You haven't said anything wrong yet, but... [1:06:51] There's a really good website someone put together called the LasVegasShootingMap.com. [1:06:56] They've got [1:06:57] track little, it's a Google map, but there's like little dots for [1:07:02] YouTube videos, cell phone footage, 911 recordings... [1:07:06] photos, [1:07:07] it's a complete timeline from the like, [1:07:10] time before the concert started to like five days after. What is the best theory about why that happened? Conspiracy or real? What's a conspiracy? Give me the juiciest one first. The conspiracy that you read online, like especially on a place like X.com, would be that there was a – [1:07:26] Let me try to word this right. I think they were worried about the Saudi family or whoever's in control in Saudi Arabia was worried about MBS taking over. [1:07:34] And there was an event happening that he was in Vegas for, and they tried to use this chaos to take him out. Whoa. He found out about it, and then this leads to this – [1:07:43] Event happening the next month in November where he got all these. [1:07:46] all the families to come to Four Seasons.

[1:07:48] There was like kidnappings and... [1:07:52] extortions and all sorts of money. He basically was pissed and he found out about it. Oh, that happened a month later? Yeah. Whoa. People have heard about that event happening, but tying it to the Las Vegas shooting... [1:08:03] not a lot of people have done. I just read about that part recently. Holy shit, dude. There's not a lot of proof of any of that happening, but that's the conspiracy. [1:08:11] I thought it was like metal detectors in the casinos. I mean that's part of it. People thought that they were trying to create an event so people would have to get body scanned in every casino. Because there were people in the state government that had stock in these security systems. Oh, God. I mean it's diabolical. God, I hope that's not true. But there was apparently like there's shells that were found in places that – [1:08:36] were outside of that hotel room. [1:08:38] Outside of the hotel room? Yeah, or away from those windows. Some people think that the second window was broken after the fact. Yeah. [1:08:46] Thank you. [1:08:47] That one don't make no sense. And he died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, allegedly, right? Yeah. So is the idea that he's a patsy? [1:08:55] I guess. [1:08:57] I mean, if you're going to follow that conspiracy I just laid out, then 100% you'd have to be. [1:09:01] But again, there's not a ton of evidence for that one. [1:09:03] There's some. [1:09:05] Wow. Yeah. Wow. [1:09:08] Mysteries. What's the other theories? Enigmas. Sort of what he was getting into where it's like there was this like – [1:09:14] tie in and just get body scanners everywhere. That one makes sense. The funnest one, I'll show you a picture of. You know how there's like a playing deck...

[1:09:22] of cards that's got like every conspiracy from like the last 20 years in it. There is? Have you ever seen that going around? No. It's like the Twin Towers are in one picture. [1:09:30] The one with Vegas, I'll show you. Sam Tripoli pointed this out to me the other day. You ever get into the Oklahoma City bombing? [1:09:37] Okay. [1:09:38] I'm familiar. That one gets real weird. We got Ruby Ridge, Waco... [1:09:46] Tim doing his thing, possibly with the team. [1:09:49] Yeah, those are all... [1:09:52] Big, what I'm getting at, what is this? [1:09:55] This is the card, the playing deck cards. This is the Vegas card. It's got this, it says that there's... Is that a tattoo? Is that a tattoo? [1:10:00] This is Jason Aldean's tattoo, who was the guy on stage when the shooting started. What? It just so happens to be it's a jack and an ace. [1:10:08] Now, that's a coincidence. [1:10:10] But that's a crazy coincidence. [1:10:12] It's like how that could have been planned. Don't know. That's his fucking name, bro. Jason Aldean. That's ridiculous. That's a crazy connection to make. His literal name is Jason Aldean. Oh, J.A. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's a microphone and a jack and an ace with a J and an A on it. It's wild. So that's silly. Yeah, that's silly. That one that one needs to be shut up. That's that's outrageous. Yeah. But. [1:10:42] *sigh* [1:10:44] It's just... [1:10:46] When you think that someone might have done something like that, someone might do a mass shooting so they could take out one dude, like blame it on this guy. Like how much planning?

[1:10:57] has to be involved in that. And then, like, how do you get the patsy? You get this guy who's just like a... [1:11:02] a degenerate gambler, [1:11:04] That's what he was, right? He was just a poker player, right? Yeah, they said he made a bunch of money playing video poker, which is like, if you make that much money playing video poker, they're not going to let you keep playing. Really? [1:11:14] Dana made money playing blockjack, and they're like, you can't play here anymore. If you're good and you're making money, they say... [1:11:19] We don't want you to do that. Yeah, they booted Dane out of the palms back in the day. That's what it was with the palms, I think. [1:11:26] Um... But with like... [1:11:28] I don't know, OKC, was that to destroy information? Is that the conspiracy... [1:11:35] Thank you. [1:11:35] There? That like in the Oklahoma City bomb, there was a bunch of info in the building that they wanted? Perhaps. Because I know some of Bill Clinton's stuff maybe disappeared. I don't know the specifics on that, but what I was getting at was the specifics of the bomb itself. That a fertilizer bomb would not be able to do that kind of destruction. And that destruction was the way a bomb generally works. [1:12:05] the energy goes outward, right? If you're parked... [1:12:10] Right in front of a building. How does the building blow outward this way? And why were there all these reports of the FBI... [1:12:18] And bomb units pulling additional undetonated bombs from the building. Right. Look at how the building blew out. I know. That's – It's kind of crazy. Absolute devastation. I mean, but it really depends entirely on the size of the bomb, right? So if you have a bomb – like see where that blue area is? That's where supposedly I think where the bomb went off. If you have an immense bomb –

[1:12:41] that is right there and it just blows up and that's the force of it all around like in a sort of conical effect. That kind of makes sense. [1:12:49] But a lot of people think that the amount of power that you would generate from a fertilizer bomb is not really capable of doing that kind of damage. [1:13:02] And Alex Jones, who – [1:13:06] This is the first person that I ever heard talk about this. He played all these news reports of them talking about – [1:13:14] Finding additional bombs. Right. Right. [1:13:18] Like it was on the news. They were talking about the FBI or whoever it was. Was the ATF in that building? [1:13:24] I believe something like that. Then maybe they would have had... [1:13:28] Some information. Well, I mean, change some of the laws. This episode is brought to you by Dodge. The new Dodge Charger scat pack is built for people who still believe driving should be exciting. You want to talk about performance? Let's start with a twin turbo six pack gas engine. [1:13:58] Woo! Unlike vehicles that make you choose between traction and attitude, the Dodge Charger Scat Pack comes with standard all-wheel drive and a selectable rear-wheel drive mode so you can get confident handling when you want it and the freedom to still be able to do burnouts.

[1:14:28] Learn more at Dodge.com. Dodge is a registered trademark of FCA US LLC. This episode is brought to you by Chime. Chime is bringing something fresh to banking. J.D. Power just ranked them the number one choice for new bank accounts in America. And that's not a small thing. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. [1:14:58] No overdraft fees and thousands of free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. If you get their Chime card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category that you actually pick yourself. [1:15:11] Your savings rate, nine times the national average. That's crazy high. Go to chime.com slash Rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for more details. [1:15:37] That bombing. Some explosives could have been in their possession even or something. Oh, like it blew up because of the other thing blowing up? Perhaps, but they didn't say that. And it's pretty odd that the ATF offices would have just bombs laying around. Yeah, yeah. That doesn't make any sense. Like, why do you guys have bombs in the break room? Well, they're studying. Yeah, we're studying actual live bombs. I don't think so. That doesn't make any sense. They're pretty good about taking care of bombs.

[1:16:07] reports of additional bombs from Oklahoma City. I know they were looking for a second person for a while. Yeah, they were looking for a second person, too. [1:16:18] But I mean there's also this problem with the fog of eyewitness accounts and everything after a catastrophe. Like one thing that happens about events is no one really – like if you're there and some fucking thing blows up, it's entirely dependent upon your makeup whether or not you can even objectively recall exactly what happened. [1:16:44] how freaked out you are by this and how used to being freaked out you are. Right. Maybe you're a veteran. Maybe you've served overseas and, like, you can actually give an accurate account of this because you've been around crazy shit. But if you haven't, it's very likely that, you know – [1:16:58] People are very confused afterwards. I would have been totally shook. No credible evidence of additional bombs being found. Initial confusion. This is AI over you. AI, by the way, that still thinks the COVID vaccine saved millions of lives. In the immediate aftermath of the bombing, some news reports and individuals speculated about multiple explosions. [1:17:24] Okay, news reports. [1:17:26] Why would they say that if there was no reason to say that? Conflicting reports. Some theories suggest that a second, even third bomb were involved, citing nearby seismograph readings and observations.

[1:17:38] witness accounts seismograph so there was multiple seismograph readings [1:17:43] Experts, expert disagreement. Oh, I love when they call on the experts. However, experts, including physicists and engineers that are not named, stated that the second tremor recorded by the size of graphs was likely caused by the buildings collapsed. [1:17:59] Not another bomb. [1:18:01] Go to sleep, America. Conspiracy theories. Some conspiracy theorists continue to promote the idea of additional bombs, even though there was news reports, often citing discrepancies in the observed damage or expert opinions. Yeah, the observed damage is kind of crazy. [1:18:17] The damage is kind of crazy. It looks like it's blown out. [1:18:22] You know? That's it. [1:18:23] That's a huge... [1:18:24] Huge demo job, man. Well, it's just weird. You know, and it's his, Timothy McVeigh's reason for doing it. All of it is weird. [1:18:34] Right. Like. It was revenge for the government's intervention with Ruby Ridge. Yeah. And the Waco. Right. Right. [1:18:44] So he was going to... [1:18:45] take on the... I mean, how many of these extremist organizations get infiltrated by the government when they find some suckers? Well, didn't they find the folks who were going to kidnap the governor or something? It was just like, wasn't it all the gov? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was 12 out of 14 people were government agents. Oh, [1:19:07] I

[1:19:08] And then those two guys went to jail. So the two that weren't? Yeah, exactly. And the two that weren't, it wasn't even their idea. They were like dorks that were LARPing. Right. Like, yeah, man, we're going to blow up the government. Right. They were fucking losers. They wanted friends. They wanted friends, and they found friends and these extremists. [1:19:26] And they thought that these guys, you know, they fucking meet up and talk about kidnapping the governor. Like, they thought it was all bullshit. Those guys literally said they thought we were never going to do this. Yeah. And then the feds come knocking on their door. [1:19:38] One of the wildest ones, they radicalized this young guy who was 19 years old. I believe it was in Dallas. They radicalized him. [1:19:47] And then they gave him a bomb that was fake and then gave him a cell phone to detonate the bomb. And then when he did, when he tried to use the cell phone to detonate the bomb, they arrested him. [1:19:58] Because even though it was fake, even though it didn't work, even though they gave it to him, even though they talked him into doing it, they arrested him. [1:20:06] For terrorism, because he was willing to listen to them. [1:20:09] Which is crazy. Why do you do that? Well, also, you're doing it to a young guy who probably... [1:20:16] This is the first time in his life he felt like he had any purpose. Like you've mind fucked him into believing that he's doing this for a greater good. You're mind fucking him to telling him that he's going to put a dent in the great Satan by detonating this bomb. And you're going to go down in history. You're going to be huge. And he's just a dumb guy, just a dumb dude who they talk into it and then they arrest him.

[1:20:40] Like, we stopped terrorism. You fucking made it, bitch. You made it. You make the problem, fix the problem. It's kind of like the pharmaceutical industry or something. Well, it's a pattern. It's a pattern. But it's just a weird one that we tolerate under the rule of law. Like, that seems pretty crazy that you guys made a plot to kidnap the governor. You got 12 out of 14 of the people who are involved working with the government. [1:21:10] And then, you know, it should be like, okay, whose idea was it? [1:21:16] It was Mike's idea. He was the first one to say, Mike, you work for the government. This is crazy, Mike. You can't arrest Tom because it was your idea, Mike, you fucking asshole. Yeah. [1:21:25] But yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was working with the government. I mean, I was like, I'm fine, right? Right. [1:21:30] And then he gets... [1:21:31] They all get... [1:21:32] Thank you. [1:21:33] Just disappear. Nobody hears them. Nobody knows their name. Nobody knows who they are. They're probably doing it right now somewhere else. They go into the private sector. They're – I don't know. Who knows? [1:21:44] Who knows? Over with Blackwater or something. Sure. Who knows who was instructing them to do what they were doing in the first place? Why did you guys decide that you were going to kidnap the governor? Is there higher-ups that told you this was a good idea to plot this? [1:22:00] Like, what are we trying to do? I just wonder how much within those... [1:22:05] Thank you. [1:22:06] Within even these buildings, like... [1:22:10] What's the communication like?

[1:22:12] in a huge organization like the FBI or something? Are there people over on floor two that have no idea what's going on on floor four? 100%. You know? 100%. And – Yeah, 100%. Just pockets, pockets of intelligence, little microcosms of – [1:22:30] Thank you. [1:22:30] Have people work – well, talking to people that actually work in the government, they'll tell you there are people that are in charge of each individual office, and they're like a czar of this office. You've got to get through them, and they can put the kibosh on anything you're trying to do, and they're hiding information from the rest of the office, hiding information from other agencies. Right. [1:22:53] Yeah. [1:22:54] When I was a kid, I dated this girl who worked for the government, and one of her jobs was – this was like really the very beginning of computers. So 91 maybe, somewhere around then? [1:23:08] maybe two, maybe 92. And her job was to help [1:23:13] uh distribute information say if the navy did a study that the army would have access to it you know so it was all on a database okay so this was like really really early on right because they didn't share information with each other they still don't share information now though they're in competition with each other yeah yeah yeah some of them don't like each other yeah there's agencies that don't let those fucking pussies over at the cia and those right faggots over at the fbi

[1:23:43] There's a lot of that stupid shit that goes on, just like there's people that root for the fucking dolphins and other people root for the raiders. People get tribal. People get really weird, man. They get tribal with every damn thing that they do. Every damn thing that they do. And it's us against them. [1:23:59] Xerox is going to take over the copying world. Fuck all those other pussies. It's like as above, so below. And the patterns go down forever. [1:24:13] territorial apes. That's the problem. We have the consistent patterns of territorial apes and those patterns find their way into everything. They find their way into [1:24:23] Fucking poetry slams. I mean, it's music. Yeah. Music's like that. Oh, for sure, right? Yeah, for sure. Comedy's like that. It is to some extent, yeah. Yeah, I mean, in certain circles it is, in certain circles it's not. [1:24:37] But it's – [1:24:39] It's like that with everything. Everyone is fighting for dominance. Yeah. In this really gross, weird way. [1:24:45] Thank you. [1:24:46] And I think it's just our genetics. I think it's the pattern of how we got here for the first place and how the human reward systems were all set up. [1:24:56] - Yeah. [1:24:57] They're set up to try to conquer things. And, you know, whether you're conquering video game development or fucking you're making the best folding phone, it's like we're going to kick ass over Google. You know, everybody has their own little thing, their little realm they're trying to conquer. Right. [1:25:12] And it feels great.

[1:25:14] No, I don't think it does. You don't think it feels great to kick ass at something? Well, I mean, you want, like, I think the pursuit of excellence is, like, the most joy-rendering thing that there is. That aspect of it. But the aspect of crushing your enemies. I wonder how much fun that is. Well, you don't have to have, like, I don't. [1:25:33] This is the thing. It's like playing guitar or something. I don't have an enemy. But you're an artist. You're not a corporation. I just – I – [1:25:41] Corporation. Are you in LLC yet? Did you sign up for the devil's deal? Limited liability corporation. A lot of people do. I don't have a record deal if that's what you're saying. [1:25:54] No, no, no, no. When you start making money, they tell you to form an LLC. [1:26:00] What is it going to do? It's like you become like a little corporation. [1:26:03] And that way you pay yourself from the corporation. You can lease a car from the corporation. [1:26:08] That would be kind of cool. You'll probably have to do that someday, eventually. I'll be in a corporate. Maybe after this podcast you'll have to do that. [1:26:17] Call it Bottomless Wells. [1:26:19] um [1:26:24] Thank you. [1:26:25] That's the most fun, and it does seem like... [1:26:30] It is what... [1:26:31] Anytime you're in a hard place or anything like that mentally or [1:26:38] Yeah, like the best way out is like find something. [1:26:42] to try to get good at, or try some, you know, and then try your best at it.

[1:26:47] Yeah. I get in... [1:26:49] It just seems innate. I think so. Like, no matter what it is. Right. But the problem is if that thing is making money, then it gets weird, right? Like, if your whole thing you're good at and you try to get better at is just making money, that's when things get really squirrely. Because the same thing that makes you really good at writing songs could make another person, like, really good at being a psychopath. [1:27:10] because the best way to make money is to be completely feelingless and not give a shit about who this is going to impact. Ship all those jobs overseas. Look how much money we're going to make. Do this to that. Fuck all the... Listen, if we don't [1:27:24] Take care of this environmental pollutant and we just let it leak out. We save X amount of money. Right. Do that. Right. Then that's where things get weird. You figure out the best way to make money. You're really good at making money, and that becomes your creativity. You get really creative about moving around the law in order to make money. You get really creative about how you establish relationships with people and how you can make sure that laws are passed that favor what you're doing. That's a strange art, weird art. [1:27:54] Thank you. [1:27:55] That's a dark art. [1:27:56] That is the dark art. Snape never taught about that one, dog. Well, it's not a creative art, but it is creative in some ways. It taps into that same thing, but in a very negative way. [1:28:09] It's maybe positive for that person's bank account but negative in terms of its impact. But do they even care about their bank account? Like what is it to them? It's just something totally different. That's the world they live in, man. Like if you're a fucking prison warden, the world you live in is like these are the rules in order to stay alive as a prison warden. This is what you're going to do. If you're a prison guard, if you're on the floor with all these inmates, this is what you do to stay alive. This is what you do to maintain order.

[1:28:39] people listen and fall in line like that once you're there that's you have to do that right like if you're there if you're if you're a prison guard this is what you do and i think if you are a guy who is in charge of uh like you're an economic hitman like john perkins you know that you ever read that book uh-uh uh [1:29:01] What they do is they would give enormous loans to countries that definitely couldn't fucking pay it off. And then, you know, come in and start extracting resources. [1:29:10] Yeah. Yeah. [1:29:11] I mean, China does that. The United States does that. Many countries have been involved in that kind of shit. [1:29:18] And... [1:29:18] They're creative in that way. Are there NGOs doing that? I'm sure. Like, is that what... I'm sure. Is that what... [1:29:26] Oh, Billy G's up to? Billy G? Yeah, Microsoft. Oh. [1:29:35] Well, he's involved in a lot of the... Do you give a big loan or give a big favor out and then... [1:29:42] take and then just [1:29:43] Take whatever you want from them. Because everyone's got notes once they... [1:29:48] Yeah. Well, it's called philanthrocapitalism and that being a philanthropist is actually very profitable. [1:29:55] Which is weird. No, I... Like, Bill Gates made hundreds of millions of dollars off of the pandemic. Yeah. Just from vaccines. Dude. [1:30:03] Philanthropy. [1:30:05] It's far out. I have a song about philanthropy. Do you? It's called... [1:30:08] Philanthropist.

[1:30:10] Thank you. [1:30:10] Let's hear it. Put it on there. Jamie will find it. [1:30:15] But real true philanthropy when you're giving money away because you're just a kind person is wonderful. [1:30:22] It's beautiful. [1:30:23] You know? I like it when it's done silently. [1:30:27] That's the only way to properly do it, right? Here we go. [1:30:57] I'd get them two sides fighting and I'd empty both of their pockets. And if I got bored, harmony weary, I'd try my hand in dabbling and social engineering. I'm going to be a billionaire with a big foundation. We used to rule in shadows, but I'd come right out and I'd rule the nation. I'm going to do all my own laundry in a third world nation state. Experiment with the locals like some philanthropic saint. [1:31:27] I never make a cure. I'll get you a treatment plan. You can die in slow installments. And I'll bleed you while I can. And I travel around the planet in a big old mystery jet. What I did would be my business. And what you did, I would collect. If I was a philanthropist, just run around. I'm a philanthropist. Not a whole lot of help just for myself.

[1:31:57] Look, I'm dancing. [1:31:59] you nailed it that's that's philanthropic capitalism right there dude in a song it's far out [1:32:11] That's a great song. It shouldn't be... [1:32:14] It shouldn't be allowed. It shouldn't be allowed. Well, it shouldn't be that easy to trick people. Who believes it? That's why I'm just – I'm like, who in the hell would think that this is – [1:32:26] Thank you. [1:32:27] Good things happen because of it, but more bad things happen than good a lot of the time. [1:32:33] And you're holding an entire nation hostage or an entire group of people hostage by lending them money. Mm-hmm. Well, that's not freedom. No. No. [1:32:43] You got to be free. [1:32:46] It's real weird. [1:32:49] Um, [1:32:50] Because... [1:32:50] So there's certain people that are like genuine philanthropists, but even them, when you're donating money to specific organizations and you find out that most of their money goes to overhead. Right. Most of their money goes to employee salaries, which are ridiculously high. Right. [1:33:04] And you go, oh, this is a scam. This is clearly a scam. You aren't kind people trying to fix the world. You're profiting off of this idea of being a kind person that wants to fix the world. And you're doing a little bit of help. You're doing about 10% of help, maybe 20% of help, maybe even 30% for a good organization. But the reality is it's about you. [1:33:24] Which is crazy. [1:33:25] Thank you. [1:33:26] Imagine if just you said, hey, man, my friend's sick. Do you think you could donate some money to him?

[1:33:33] to my friend, you know, because he doesn't have any health insurance. And we were like, yeah, man, what do we got to do? And then everybody gives you money and then you take 70% of it. And we go, hey, dude, what the fuck? And you're like, hey, man, I worked. [1:33:50] To get that money for him. Yeah. I had to call you guys. I really – I put in the time. I need some of that money. I need 70% of that money. You'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about? Your friends would never talk to you again. No. Everybody would hate you. [1:34:02] But meanwhile, if you do this for... [1:34:05] an NGO, you get celebrated. Right. [1:34:08] insane it's real it is insane and it's real the weirdest thing about it is this isn't a conspiracy theory this is real this is really how most of them operate some of it's 90% some of it's 90-10 yeah [1:34:24] there's good ones out there though there's really good ones where most of the money goes to the charity and that's awesome there's real people out there that are really kind people that are genuine philanthropists and most of them live very humble lives because that's [1:34:39] You don't make a million dollars a year if you're doing it right. Right. You just don't. Right. You know? You just don't. And if you are making a million dollars a year, chances are you might be a vampire. Yeah. [1:34:55] I mean... [1:34:56] That guy was all over the... [1:34:59] All over the flight logs and everything. [1:35:02] Which guy was? Which guy? Gates. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:35:06] I'll... [1:35:06] All tangled up and all sorts of stuff, man. Yeah. [1:35:10] He was tangled up in all sorts of stuff. [1:35:12] After that guy went to jail. [1:35:14] After he went to jail and came out the first time. [1:35:17] Yeah. Gates was hanging with him still. Yeah. [1:35:19] as were many people [1:35:21] It's real weird stuff, man. It's real weird. [1:35:26] Because it seems that it's like... [1:35:30] Once you develop a network of people that trust a person like that and like, come, come hang out with him. He's cool. [1:35:37] it's a good place to go and get your freak on. Because if you're a really rich... [1:35:42] international businessman and everybody knows who you are like a bill gates type character you can't just go get some head like what do you do how do you how do you how do you go get your fuck on you know what do you do is that is that what the is that what jeff was i don't know was he the the fixer in that i would just be speculating this episode is brought to you by blinds.com texas summers don't mess around with patio surfaces easily reaching 150 degrees hot enough to make [1:36:12] like a punishment. And if your windows are bare, indoor temperatures can go up 20 degrees. Get ahead of it with custom solar shades for your den and your patio from Blinds.com. Whether you want to do it yourself or have a pro handle everything, they've got you covered. It's all online so you can shop whenever you want but still have access to real design professionals. They'll even send free samples. Blinds.com has been doing this for 30 years and they back everything with a 100%

[1:36:42] satisfaction guarantee so you can order with confidence right now my listeners can get an exclusive 40 off when you spend 500 or more at blinds.com and use the promo code rogan 40 limited time offer blinds.com promo code rogan 40 rules and restrictions apply [1:37:02] This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew, the number one brand for better sex. Blue Chew just dropped something crazy. Blue Chew Gold. Blue Chew has made it easy for 5 million men to get hard, but now they've made it easier to get horny too. Blue Chew Gold gets your brain and body on the same page fast. Other options just help blood flow, but gold combines [1:37:32] and two, boost arousal and intimacy. So for a good time, go to BlueChew.com. And we've got a special deal for our listeners right now. When you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third free with promo code ROGAN. You also receive an additional 10% off plus free overnight shipping on your first order. Visit BlueChew.com for more details and important safety information. Blue Chew is number one for a reason. [1:38:02] I would just be speculating, but a good friend of mine who's very intelligent said this to me. He said, there's people that want certain experiences, and there's people that provide these powerful people with experiences.

[1:38:13] And that's how they fit into the social structure. [1:38:16] They're there to help. They can keep their mouth shut, and they help people. [1:38:20] get these experiences. Right. And then there's probably some sort of a wild rush of being naughty and doing things you're not supposed to be doing. We can get away with it because we're worth 80, 100 billion dollars or whatever the fuck they're worth. They're trying very hard to get away with this one. I don't know if the people are going to... [1:38:41] Forget. People are never going to forget. The problem is, do we have any power? [1:38:47] What do we do? What do you do? I mean you definitely can change the way you vote. [1:38:52] like if it comes up again but the problem is this is a bipartisan issue I don't know I heard it as a democratic hoax yeah I don't think that's true well it's certainly not a hoax if you go to jail [1:39:07] Certainly not a hoax if Ghislaine Maxwell is in jail too. So she's in jail for sex trafficking. Excuse me. She's in jail for sex trafficking. But the question is to who? [1:39:17] You have to be sex trafficking too much. [1:39:21] Someone. Somebody. In order to go to jail, right? [1:39:25] How's that work? She's been in jail for years. So like, how's that work? [1:39:31] Is she looking at a pardon? Are they going to... [1:39:34] I don't know, but they just moved her to another prison. They moved her. It's supposed to be a nice prison. [1:39:39] As far as prisons go. I'm over there. [1:39:42] To kill her?

[1:39:43] Could be. [1:39:45] *laughs* [1:39:46] But why would you waste the money to move someone if you wanted to kill them? [1:39:50] I'm sure they could kill her pretty easy. I don't know. [1:39:53] But the question is, does she have dead woman switches? You know what I mean? You know what a dead man switches? Like a tripwire? Yeah. Like if I die, I want you to do this for me. [1:40:05] And then whether it's in Israel, whether it's in Canada, whoever the fuck the person is that you have that you give this information to. Yeah. You just say, if anything happens to me. [1:40:14] Let this loose. [1:40:15] And then you tell them. [1:40:17] Like, look. [1:40:17] I have this, that, this, and that. I have all these tapes. I have all these videos. And if anything happens to me, all this goes online. [1:40:27] So leave me alone. [1:40:28] If that were true... [1:40:30] That's a real thing that people do. It's called a dead man switch. [1:40:33] dead man switch. Yeah. [1:40:35] That's how people maintain life. [1:40:39] If you have information that's really sensitive, they have to trust you. If someone trusts you to not tell something that can ruin their empire of hundreds of billions of dollars and put them in jail possibly – [1:40:54] They have to trust you. They're not going to trust you. They don't trust you. [1:40:56] But if they know... [1:40:58] that you know that if you tell, they'll kill you. [1:41:01] And then they know that if they kill you, you have the dead man switch. [1:41:08] Okay. [1:41:09] We got a stalemate. Let that motherfucker live. This is mutually assured destruction. Some kind of nuclear standoff. Yeah, they're pointing missiles at each other. Information missiles at each other.

[1:41:23] It's dark, dude. [1:41:26] But it makes for a good spy novel. [1:41:28] If just America, the way it actually really works, would be a crazy novel. You'd be like, this is nuts. I get Tom Wolfe. [1:41:34] something or another. [1:41:37] If you actually knew the actual facts, I bet it would be quite fascinating. [1:41:41] You know, like we have these narratives that we assume are real about even about history. And I bet a lot of them are full of shit, too. You know? [1:41:52] Bill Murray was on the podcast. It was really interesting. And he read Bob Woodward's story about his good friend John Belushi. Right. So he said – I read five pages of it. I was like, oh, my God, they framed Nixon. Right. [1:42:05] Isn't that crazy? Well, I mean, isn't Bob Woodward? He's known to have been hired... [1:42:09] or at least worked with CIA. He was an intelligence agent. Yeah, he's an intelligence agent. That was his first job. And he builds the narratives. It was also his first job as a journalist. Yeah. [1:42:20] Which is how? How do the senior journalists not get that job? You're literally going to take down a president. I didn't see that aspect of it in all the president's men. Who is that? Justin Hoffman and Robert Redford? Yeah. [1:42:33] Yeah, you don't get that. You don't get that. [1:42:36] Because that was before the internet. Yeah. They could get away with a movie like that. I kind of wonder if they... [1:42:42] Listen, I'm sure this... [1:42:44] Right. [1:42:46] I'm... actually, I don't know anything about... do you know Tom Hanks? [1:42:51] Tom Hanks, the actor? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know him personally. Oh, okay.

[1:42:54] I just wonder if every... [1:42:57] Every once in a while. [1:42:59] When... [1:43:00] The government needs to explain something. [1:43:04] To the public. [1:43:05] In a way that puts us in the best light. [1:43:08] and [1:43:09] Um... [1:43:10] If they commission a movie... [1:43:12] through Hollywood and stick Tom Hanks in it, man. He's just explained. [1:43:16] so much to us over the years with Charlie Wilson's war it's like here's how this goes um [1:43:27] You know, Forrest Gump is kind of a nostalgia fest. [1:43:31] about the, you know, Vietnam War, kind of, [1:43:34] makes light of it. [1:43:37] Thank you. [1:43:37] um... [1:43:39] You know, the Polar Express. I actually don't know about the Polar Express. The animated movie. Well, my friend Sam was telling me, my friend Sam Tripoli was telling me that, and I had heard this, that during World War I, they had a problem that soldiers were not shooting at the enemy. They didn't want to kill them. They didn't want to be there. And so they were firing their guns, but not even aiming them at the enemy. Right. So to combat this, they started making movies. And then in the movies, these war movies, the soldiers would shoot the enemy and they were like really heroes. [1:44:09] those. [1:44:09] And so then in World War II, people were much more willing to shoot the enemy. [1:44:15] Gee. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Like, so... [1:44:20] The intelligence communities have been deeply involved in movie making from the very beginning because back then movies were the most powerful narrative in all of society.

[1:44:31] And there was no counter-narrative, not to speak of, nothing that went global or even that was like publicly mass distributed. I mean you might have people in coffee shops saying, hey, man, I read this and this and that. But there were small groups of people, and most people were in the dark. [1:44:48] Even if you had a counter-narrative, you'd be like Pete Seeger and get blacklisted in the 50s. Or you'd be Smedley Butler. Right, who was in a... [1:44:58] At the end of his career. Yeah. Yeah. [1:45:02] It's a wonder he survived his own... [1:45:05] his own tell-all. [1:45:06] There with War is a Racket. Yeah. [1:45:09] It is. It didn't seem to do a whole lot. Whatever. [1:45:13] World War II is just... [1:45:15] You know, six years after. I know. Crazy. Isn't it crazy, though, that they made movies about war to encourage people to just shoot the enemy when they see them? Because most people, it's probably so abstract to them, like they're from like, especially if they had just gotten there from Europe. Right. So imagine if you're dealing with World War One, like a lot of those people probably recently arrived in America. Right. [1:45:45] Now you're being sent over to Germany? Right. Like, you're involved in a fucking war now? You're in a trench war? Well, I don't know. America was pretty – was really not wanting to get in with World War I anyway. Yeah. You know? [1:45:57] Was it the Lusitania? Some folks think that even might have been a false sinkage. Do they think that was a false flag? It could have been. Well, I mean, there's a long history of false flags.

[1:46:09] That got us into war. [1:46:11] I mean it goes back to Nero burning Rome, and what they did with the Gulf of Tonkin incident is – What happened with Nero? Let's go pull that up. Nero was so crazy, dude. You know one of the things Nero did? What? He beat his pregnant wife to death, and then he found a slave that looked like his wife, a boy, castrated him, and said, this is my wife. [1:46:33] and paraded this person around. Sporus was his name. French stuff. Yeah, and just fucked this poor dude with no dick that he had his dick cut off and then passed that guy off to someone else, and that guy eventually wound up committing suicide. [1:46:48] Yeah. Yeah. Nero was a complete total psychopath. So there was this one false flag incident. [1:47:00] See if you can find what Nero did... [1:47:05] You know, that was also like Hitler, Hitler burned the Reichstag. [1:47:08] That was a false flag too. [1:47:11] The Gulf of Tonkin one was a crazy one because that was, what was that, 67, 68 or something like that? So we had already been in Vietnam for years at that point. No, no. That was the – they had some limited operations. Right. But it wasn't like we were full-scale soldiers invading Vietnam. Right. Is this precursor to like Tetafel? [1:47:31] Ted Offensive or something? I don't know, but this was the incident that dragged us in. [1:47:37] Burning Rome, burning Christians. Year 64, during the Principate of Nero, the night between July 18 and 19, the fire broke out in Rome within nine days, destroyed or badly damaged a substantial part of the city, leaving many dead or homeless. Rumors circulated the fire had been set by Nero, who, it was claimed, sought to divert blame from himself by holding responsible a new sect of aggressively proselytizing Jews, known as Christians, who were in the city of Nero.

[1:48:05] Wow. Most recent scholarship has rejected the popular view of Nero as an arsonist who fiddled while Rome burned, in quotes. Largely ignored, however, has been the question of whether or not the Christians generally regarded as innocent scapegoats of Nero might, in fact, have played some role in the fire. There's controversy. [1:48:35] evidence that Christian involvement is not out of the question. Not out of the question, but the narrative has always been that Nero did it to divert. [1:48:42] Attention. But the point is, look, they tried to do that with Operation Northwoods. It's one of the things that Kennedy vetoed. The Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on an operation to do a false flag event where they were going to blow up a drone jetliner, blame it on Cuba, and they were going to arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay. [1:49:06] And Kennedy vetoed it. But it was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. [1:49:10] Right there, like, sounds good. [1:49:12] Right. There's fucking smoke. I mean, is this what the Bay of Pigs is? No, the Bay of Pigs is a different thing. The Bay of Pigs is after that. And the Bay of Pigs, the problem with the Bay of Pigs was that they planned it without Kennedy knowing. The men were already there. Yeah. And then they had air support, and that was part of their mission. And then Kennedy denied air support. [1:49:34] And then the men on the ground got slaughtered. Yeah. And so they – my friend Evan who –

[1:49:40] was a ranger he believes [1:49:42] It's very possible that some of the people involved in that might have been involved in the assassination of Kennedy because they had a huge grudge, and these were hardened assassins. Yeah, if there's something that you'd go and mine – [1:49:56] Yeah. People out of that operation. There was a lot of people that hated Kennedy after that. Yeah. A lot of people. We don't think about it now because we think of Kennedy as like being loved. But there's people that celebrated when he got murdered. [1:50:09] Thank you. [1:50:10] Gee. [1:50:12] Yeah. [1:50:14] That... [1:50:15] I can't imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like today. Like if Trump got murdered, there's people that would celebrate. [1:50:22] Or if Kamala Harris had gotten murdered on the campaign trail, there's people that would celebrate. There's gross people on both sides of the aisle. It is – I mean it's a sign of something's not good when we're celebrating – [1:50:36] Just death. [1:50:37] No. I feel like. Well, it's certainly a society that's lost its way if that's the only solution is to kill people. [1:50:48] you know? [1:50:49] Or if you don't like how the results turned out, you do everything you can. [1:50:54] to destroy that person. [1:50:57] which I think the most interesting version of that is happening right now in New York City. [1:51:02] that Mondani guy who's essentially... [1:51:06] Like at the very least a socialist but kind of leans towards a communist direction. Right. Both sides are trying to get rid of that guy. They're like, we can't allow him to be mayor. Okay. But the people elected him. He won the Democratic primary, and he's like 44 percent ahead of everybody else in the process. So there's still – sorry. You've got to kind of fill me in. So the actual election is not until November, right? So they have the primary first. Mondani won.

[1:51:36] the governor of the state and everybody thought he was going to win right and then people like holy shit this communist guy is going to be the fucking mayor of new york city okay and he's promising to jack up taxes and he's promising to have like city funded grocery stores and like a lot of communist ideas and so both the right and the left like we got to get this guy out of here okay there's no way but it's like [1:52:00] If you believe in the democratic process... [1:52:03] Like this is what the people wanted. Right. Let's find out if it works. So let's find out if it sucks, if it makes New York City even worse. Well, then in a few years you get to vote again. Yeah. I was going to say, how long is the how long is mayorship? I think it's four years. Four years. Right. Is it a four year term for mayor of New York City? [1:52:22] It has to be, right? Because in two years, you're basically just using the time to campaign for your re-election. Because you'd probably – by the time you got in there, it's like – [1:52:30] 24 months later, you got to do it again. Right. You're like, ugh. So what are the two sides doing to – [1:52:38] To bring him down. Talk about getting him out of the country. [1:52:42] There's people that are talking about is there a way to expel him from the country? [1:52:47] To revoke his citizenship? Yeah. There's talk of that. People are trying to figure out any way to get rid of this guy. But he is a citizen, of course. He is, but he wasn't born in America, which freaks people out. [1:53:00] He's a Muslim. He's from Uganda. That's where he's from. [1:53:03] He's only been in America for a certain amount of years, and he's only been a citizen, I think, for seven or eight years, something like that.

[1:53:08] and [1:53:10] He won. You know? Yeah. If you believe in this thing, like, that's what people voted for, and you've got to do better. [1:53:17] That's the game. That's what the folks want. That's what the folks want. Yeah. Well, the thing is, there's a lot of people that live in New York City that live in... [1:53:26] any city really, that don't feel like their needs are being met by the government. Right. [1:53:31] and they don't feel like the government has their best interests. If some guy comes along with some radical ideas – [1:53:36] that [1:53:37] he says are the solution. Well, [1:53:41] If the people believe him and it's not true, you've done a terrible job. You've done a terrible job of both distributing information and taking care of these people because they're looking for any kind of a solution. Right. Even a solution that might wind up – [1:53:54] causing a bunch of corporations to leave the city and a bunch of money to leave the city and a bunch of jobs to leave the city. [1:54:01] This is [1:54:03] Things are desperate, right? I... [1:54:08] What the politicians? [1:54:10] really controlled by like... [1:54:11] Like three main things, like special interests... [1:54:16] Donor class and multinational corporations. So anybody who looks like they're disentangled from any of those things is looking pretty appealing. Exactly. Exactly. That's why he's way ahead. He's ahead by 44%. Everybody else has like 12%, 20%. I think the highest one other than him in the most recent polling was Cuomo, who's still running somehow or another. I don't know how he's doing it. It's like, is he an independent? Like, how is Cuomo running? Is that what it is? Yeah.

[1:54:46] So he's running as an independent because he couldn't win the Democratic primary. Yeah. But he's still way behind this guy. [1:54:51] Yeah. [1:54:53] According to polls, the problem with polls is, of course, who the fuck answers polls? Not you. Not me. No, not me. I think polls are just made so that news people have something to talk about. Well – I wouldn't be surprised if they're the ones – well, they probably are. They probably go to the poll center and they say, run this poll because I got to have something to talk about on Wednesday. Yeah. You could rig them, right? [1:55:23] and you started asking them questions on things or a specific group of people, a specific part of the city that you knew was more progressive, you would go there. If you wanted to rig polls and then you push that narrative out, this is how the people feel. It's like, okay, but who's answering? A very small percentage and mostly dopes. Mostly dopes are answering polls. Sorry if you answer polls. But most of the people have nothing else to do because if you call me – I never met anybody who's answered a poll. Bingo. Bingo. [1:55:49] I met a lot of folks. You met a lot of folks. Exactly. You ever met anyone who answered a poll? No. And the presidential polls are the weird ones because sometimes they're wildly wrong. [1:55:58] And yet somebody got paid to make those polls. I think it's – [1:56:01] I think it's the news. I think the news is an incredibly lucrative... [1:56:07] It's an entertainment business. There's not news every day. There's nothing. And they've got to run 24 hours. They're making up...

[1:56:19] They're making up new... They should call it... They should call it the old... Because it's always the same shit happening, man. Like, it's not even... Yeah... [1:56:27] It doesn't matter where you're getting it either. It's also a lot – I mean CNN tried to separate themselves from that when they realized it was like financially – [1:56:38] kind of devastating to the company to have like really bad editorial comments which is what they did so they got rid of all their head newscasters okay because everybody was terrible and everybody hated them so they just got rid of most of them right and they tried to go objective with the news but the problem is like that way people aren't outraged and the only way people are going to pay attention now because you spoiled them you gave them candy and now you can't give them filet mignon like this is bullshit i want cheetos i want snacks right like you're not [1:57:07] You've ruined them. [1:57:08] And you gave them this for decades. And so now if you want your ratings, you have to give them outrage. You have to have a bunch of people yelling at each other on TV so they pay attention. [1:57:21] Thank you. [1:57:22] like colorful people that they would have had on their things have gone indie now. [1:57:27] You know, like Tucker Carlson has... [1:57:31] his podcast and like... [1:57:35] Let's see. [1:57:37] Candace Owens was with like Daily Wire and now she's like got, she's got her own. [1:57:42] Yeah thing and there's and then there's smaller there's smaller ones you got like I [1:57:48] Breaking points is one.

[1:57:51] Um... [1:57:52] The real problem is the left ones never succeed once they're fired. [1:57:57] The people that leave CNN, they're always like, [1:58:01] Well, the talent – I mean, we have to be talented to do that, to sit there and look at a camera and just talk for hours about – you've got to be really talented. You've got to be really dedicated. Yeah. [1:58:13] And you have to... [1:58:15] You have to understand how people are receiving what you're saying too. And the problem with like – [1:58:19] a CNN-type job, is that you're being told what to do. You show up. You read the news as written by these people. You have a teleprompter. Right. You really can't stray very far from the narrative, and you're allowed to – [1:58:35] You're allowed to elaborate inside the narrative as long as it fits with what CNN is trying to promote. Right. And as soon as you deviate from that, you're cooked. You're gone. Yeah. So then there's really no – there's not much career for you after that. Yeah, because once you leave, everybody knows you're a propagandist. [1:58:54] Like no one's ever going to really truly believe you. You weren't coming up with anything yourself. It was all fed to you. Exactly. You're a drone. Exactly. And then we also watched as you did elaborate on your own about whatever you thought about the narrative. You're a dope. You're a dope that's only on television because they put you there. You're not like – you didn't rise through the ranks. Like this is one of the most interesting people I've ever heard talk on television. Like no, this is not that at all. You're not sincere.

[1:59:24] What people like is authenticity. You want to know that someone is actually telling you what they think. [1:59:30] And you don't get any of that from them. As soon as you don't get that from people, you never want to listen. Whether you believe Tucker Carlson or not, [1:59:37] He's being authentic. Like what he's saying, he believes. Right. This is who he is, and that's why he works. That's why it works outside of Fox News when he left. Those folks – all these folks who do – I think even Bill O'Reilly – [1:59:52] After he got kicked out from broadcasts, he has... [1:59:57] he's got his podcasts and stuff. If they... [2:00:02] They really believe their stuff, man. Yeah, whether they're right or wrong. [2:00:07] Well, it's not about that. I feel like the public has to understand that at the end of the day, these guys are – whether they believe it or not – [2:00:17] This is entertainment. These guys are entertainers. Yes. Like this isn't the new – they're telling you stuff. They're feeding it to you, and you've got to take things with a big-ass grain of salt because this stuff is – these are entertainers. Well, there's definitely that aspect of it. And if you're not entertaining, you're going to get removed from your job, and you're going to get replaced by someone who's better at your job. Yeah. Or hotter. Yeah. [2:00:40] You know? Someone who's got a nice rack and a short skirt and who's really good at talking. Like, wow. I really just want to watch her talk. [2:00:51] I guess that's for the cable folks or something. Yeah. I mean, that's part of the gig, right? Like how many of those ladies on Fox News just look hot as the sun –

[2:01:00] while they're telling you [2:01:02] Whatever the fuck they're supposed to be telling you. Yeah. [2:01:06] it's a special kind of hot too that like ice queen hot that Republican like hard nosed hot I don't get it I don't get it man [2:01:18] I don't... you... [2:01:21] So, [2:01:23] That's the cheapest price. [2:01:25] That's the cheapest thing they can pull over on the news stations is to have sex appeal. Yeah, but they've always – I mean that's how they sell cars. That's how they sell everything. [2:01:36] People use that for everything. [2:01:37] Because we're dumb. [2:01:39] I'm optimistic, man. I think we're going to wake up. [2:01:43] I'm going to say, I don't care what the hot lady on Fox says. [2:01:48] They're murdering people. [2:01:51] I'm optimistic too and I think you're right. I think we are doing that right now. Believe it or not, your songs are a part of that. [2:01:59] It's – whatever. [2:02:02] percentage [2:02:04] you you reach that's it's not zero there's there's people that you reach like that united health how many views did that get all told i don't know it has to be millions it got a lot of millions and millions and millions i know i sent it to a lot of people [2:02:18] Things... [2:02:19] The tunes get passed around. Some of them get passed around. Did I repost that? I reposted it, right? Yeah. Okay. If I repost it, I can find out how many people... [2:02:29] just saw the one that I reposted. It'll be a lot. It resonates, man. It's like people are...

[2:02:36] How long ago was that? When you shared the list, that one blew up too. Yeah, that was a good one too. [2:02:43] How long ago was that, the UnitedHealth one? That was in December. What is it, Jimmy? You posted it eight months ago. Eight months ago. This is going to take a while because I'm a chatty Kathy. It was December 15, 2024. [2:02:57] Oh, that's not that long ago. Okay, so here's Fetterman. That's around that time. [2:03:02] Let me try to... There ain't no you. [2:03:06] Thank you. [2:03:07] Come on, cocksucker, where are ya? [2:03:10] Thank you. [2:03:11] There's no shortage of stuff to make tunes on. [2:03:16] How do you decide what to make tunes on? Do you just sit and when something resonates with you and pisses you off? Yeah, when something is like, you know, gee – [2:03:27] Gee, I got... [2:03:29] I got something I could say about that. [2:03:32] Um... [2:03:35] Then that's when you do it too. [2:03:41] Thank you. [2:03:42] I know it's on here. How would I search for it? I don't think you can because you're trying to see the views. Oh, found it. Here we go. Sorry. Okay, view insights. [2:03:54] 6,742,803 views. [2:04:02] The watch time is three years. [2:04:05] 104 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes, and 8 seconds. Folks got too much time on their hands. There's a lot of people on the toilet right now, bro. They need something to listen to. You ever go to the toilet without your phone? It's weird. You just sit there like, wow, I'm alone with my thoughts. It's like a spacewalk without oxygen. No one knows how to do it anymore. Yeah, it's...

[2:04:32] Read the Dr. Bronner's bottle. [2:04:49] Throwing their coins into this big pile and trying to figure this out. [2:04:54] And more so now than I think has ever happened at any time in human history. [2:04:58] There's more discussion. It's just... Yeah. We're so upset that it's not fixed. [2:05:05] And... [2:05:05] It... [2:05:07] It's on its way in the right direction, I think. It's just... [2:05:11] not satisfying the pace in which progress is happening. [2:05:16] Everybody can get on now too. I mean like that's it's just like I prop up my iPhone and [2:05:24] And like play a tune. [2:05:25] Mm-hmm. [2:05:26] Everyone can just like get the phone in front of their face and like get it out there. [2:05:32] You know? [2:05:32] Yeah. [2:05:33] Yeah, anyone can now, which is great. [2:05:36] I mean, this allows guys like you to just all of a sudden have a following. All you have to do is have some talent, some talent, some creativity, some hard work. [2:05:45] Bam. [2:05:46] There you go. [2:05:48] It's kind of cool. I mean, that's the beautiful side of social media. It's good. There's no rules as far as, especially in the music industry and stuff, there's no rules anymore. Anyone who tells you that they know what to do or that they know what they're doing, they're so full of shit, dog. Nobody knows what they're doing. Yeah. And, like, we want people to know because we want to ask, like, what could I do to do?

[2:06:10] you know, to have, to be successful or whatever, then nobody knows. No. Nobody knows, and there's no gatekeepers or anything like that. All you have to do is want to play music. [2:06:22] Yeah. [2:06:23] And then go and do it on your phone and see if anyone likes you. And if they like you, you're, you know, that's good. Yeah. Then everybody will come to you and say, I know how to make this bigger. And they don't know what they're talking about either. No, they're generally, they're vampires. [2:06:39] And they're trying to take a piece. Yeah. They're trying to... [2:06:42] clamp on to you. Oh, they come out of the woodwork, dog. Have you had people offer you a bunch of money? Not a bunch, but they'll offer you a little for a lot, you know? A little for a lot. Yeah. They want your future, right? Yeah. They'll go, you know, here's [2:06:58] There are all sorts of folks in the early days coming through labels and stuff going, here's, we'll give you a... [2:07:07] 10 grand for like 30 songs or something like that. And it's like, this is insulting. Yeah. I don't want any of this. I don't want any. I don't need any of this. Oliver Anthony was going through that. [2:07:18] Right after Rich Men from Richmond. Right. Rich Men North of Richmond. Yeah. A song came out. Like they just came after him with all this money. Oh, they will. All his fucking promises. They will. All this money. They give you so much up front and you don't even – like if you don't know, it's just a big-ass loan that you're never going to recoup. And then you're not even – you're not living off your own dough at that point. No. You're just living off of borrowed money like everybody else in the States. And you're attached to them forever. Yeah. Yeah.

[2:07:46] You're attached to them forever. They own your masters. You'll never see it back. I mean, I was signed to a label when I was like 22. I've been through all that crap. How old are you now? I'm 47. Are you really? You look great. No, I'm going to be 33 this year. Yeah, baby. I believed you. I was like, man, kid's living good. Hello. [2:08:08] Hello, I'm just joshing you. [2:08:16] become hugely successful and get a gigantic following with no one attached to you. [2:08:21] Well, you don't have to have all those people. They're not going to help you. No, they don't. Too many cooks in the kitchen. Mm-hmm. [2:08:28] Way too many people wanting to sign off. And too many people eating at the dinner plate. [2:08:37] let's say he took the deal, you know, or whatever. If Oliver Anthony took the big deal... [2:08:44] Then he's got all these people up there in the office with tax write-off MacBooks telling him what to do with his music because they opened their wallet. Yeah. And they're going to have to give you notes. Yeah. They're entitled to give you their opinion at that point, and he wouldn't be able to just do whatever the hell he wants to do. Yeah. You know? And I think it's so important for artists to be able to do whatever the hell they want to do because that's the only way they can be themselves. Exactly. And then that's the only way you can be successful is to completely be yourself at all times, 100%. Yeah. [2:09:14] about yourself. And you see that one thing that does happen when people do take the money is that part goes away.

[2:09:20] Because even though you think you're kind of sort of being yourself, everybody knows you're not totally. You're not totally being yourself anymore. And dough will change your life. [2:09:31] in a way that you might not be ready for or something. You're going to think, "I got this dough, now I can leave this town I don't like," or "I can get the house that I was wanting." When it was really being in that town, [2:09:48] and kind of having things [2:09:50] difficult pressures around you and stuff that was creating these diamonds, that was putting you in this situation to make good art and stuff like that. And you... [2:09:59] take away... [2:10:01] all your discomfort and then realize you can't make art and you're not happy and then you start getting nostalgic about the good old days when you were broke and shit like that it's just it's better it's it's better to just take [2:10:15] Only what you need. Well, then there's also the problem once you become successful of worrying about not being successful anymore. [2:10:24] about maintaining it that's terrifying sure i gotta keep this going like i can't i can't fall off but it can't be less successful i can't i used to be poor and now i've got money i gotta make sure this doesn't go away it's how you measure your thoughts and you measure you know you're measured in what you say no no it's your measure of success is like how much can i be myself i'm [2:10:49] and uh...

[2:10:51] and be happy. [2:10:52] be happy that way if you can still be [redacted address] to the end of the line then that's your success yeah like that's but that's a smart way of looking at things [2:11:03] Most people look at things in terms of like what is the way that's the most profitable. Right. [2:11:07] So they'll avoid certain controversies. But we know even from talking about people whose art is money, it creates misery to be chasing people. [2:11:20] the bank account to constantly have the dough. [2:11:22] You know, like you create a wake of... [2:11:25] You create bad art. [2:11:27] Alright, your album starts to suck. [2:11:30] You might be getting in bigger, bigger places and stuff like that. But yeah, it's going to fall off. And when it does, you know. [2:11:39] then... [2:11:40] Then you have some existential problems to deal with at that point. Well, there's always the devil's bargain, right? That fucking story is as old as time. [2:11:50] That's the Robert Johnson story, right? [2:11:54] They thought he sold his soul. Yeah. Yeah. [2:11:56] Van Halen definitely sold his soul to the devil. You think so? [2:12:00] No. You look like Eddie Van Halen, dude. You look a little like Eddie Van Halen. I fucking love Eddie Van Halen. Yeah, he's the man. Oh my god. He was the man. He's the Robert Johnson of the late 70s. Angus Young sold his soul. Isn't it funny, though, that that story was like... [2:12:17] Always around. [2:12:18] The story of selling your soul for success?

[2:12:21] Yeah. [2:12:23] It's an interesting... [2:12:25] metaphor that doesn't but it doesn't make any sense as far as like robert john he's like he sold his soul i guess so he could play and then not be successful in his lifetime and die poor and then we would all find him later i think the thought was that he was so much better than everybody else there's no way he could have gone [2:12:43] that far ahead without some help. [2:12:46] He's spooky good. Yeah. He's spooky good. He's working in the future. But that's always – there's always guys like that, like Hendrix. Yes. If anybody sold their soul, it's Hendrix. [2:12:55] Yeah. Not that I think he did, but it's like when that guy came around, everybody was like, what the fuck is going on? In every generation, there's a player, man. Yep. I mean, maybe you could trace the line. Johnson... [2:13:06] Hendrix, that's skipping a few. But to Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, and then you've got like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani and like these virtuosos. Stevie Ray Vaughan, so important to Texas too, Stevie. Yeah. [2:13:22] We have a photo of him on stage at our club. [2:13:26] Because, you know, I own this place that used to be a theater that he performed at. Okay. And there's a photo of him on stage in 1983. So as you're walking to the stage, there's a photo of Stevie Ray Vaughan on stage. [2:13:38] in the back. He's so cool. I don't know if you've seen him at Austin City Limits slinging his guitar behind his back. Oh, he was the coolest. Playing with his teeth. He's got all his scarves and stuff. I almost got to drive him once when I was driving limos, but he wouldn't take limos.

[2:13:52] What did he want? I drove Jeff Beck. He wouldn't take limos. Jeff Beck? Yeah. He only took cabs. Okay. They'd get him a limo. He's like, eh. Eh. [2:14:00] I'm getting a cab. Okay. He'd hop in a cab and talk to the cab driver. He didn't want to be Mr. Fancy in a fucking limo. Yeah. Yeah. [2:14:07] Isn't that interesting? Salt of the earth, dude. I was pissed, though. I was like, fuck. Yeah. Almost got to drive Steve Ray Vaughn. [2:14:14] I was one of those talents every generation. But it also shows you how dumb limo drivers are, like the companies. Like you let a fucking psycho like me, a 21-year-old maniac, drive one of the greatest guitars of all time. Like I was a bad driver. Like I was a reckless kid. Like all of a sudden I had this job driving limos because I wore a suit. Like you're going to trust me? Steve or Avon? I mean safer than the helicopter pilots and stuff. [2:14:44] In the end, yes. No, I'm just kidding. I mean, I was a good driver when I was driving limos. I thought you were a great driver. Thank you. But it is kind of crazy that they let a 21-year-old me just at the helm of a car with one of the greatest musicians of all time in the backseat. It's always fun to think back on that. [2:15:01] Like when I was 18, I did a radio program for KDYN Real Country Radio every Saturday morning. It was called Dial-A-Deal where people call in. It was basically like an on-air Craigslist. But I was alone at the station after football games. Football games would be like Friday night. Go to bed all beat up. Wake up at like 5 a.m.,

[2:15:27] Go into the station, record the obituaries real quick because those are going to run on Saturday. [2:15:35] And then do like a, you know, an on-air Craigslist radio program, and you're just like 17 years old with the entire radio station to yourself. [2:15:43] Wow. I was a total dumbass too. I could have been like, "Anyway, here's Graham Funk Railroad." Did you have a specific list of things you were supposed to play? [2:15:53] The list was programmed in, and then you had to record weather? [2:15:59] So you would pull up the National Weather Service on the screen, and then you would record yourself doing the weather, saying, you know, winds are going to be southeast, southeast. [2:16:08] southeast northwest out of 15 miles an hour or whatever you do the obituaries but um no you didn't actually dj it was just like you would hit the space bar music would start playing and be like okay folks if you can't tell by the music i'll go ahead and tell you myself it's time for dial-a-deal remember um [2:16:26] Our numbers up here are 667-4567 or toll free at 888-325-KDYN. That's 888-325-KDYN. Remember, no commercial real estate advertisement. Please limit your calls to once per program. And keep in mind, I can't always keep track of these numbers up here myself. So if you remember them on your end. [2:16:44] You're doing me and you a favor. [2:16:46] Let's get back to the dial-in and a deal-in. And then people would call in and they'd say, [2:16:51] be like, I'm looking for my dog. And I'd be like, somebody find that dog. [2:16:56] And then, you know, list off their number. Or, uh...

[2:17:00] Did you ever play any of your songs? [2:17:02] No. [2:17:03] No, it was a classic country radio station, so I'm up there listening to, like, Willie... [2:17:08] Waylon. [2:17:09] Hank Sr. [2:17:10] Hank Jr., [2:17:12] And then also they were playing like some modern... I remember Brad Paisley was being played on there and he just shredded. [2:17:19] No, I couldn't. I couldn't. I was in a grunge band at the time. I couldn't play. Were you really? Yeah. I think that, yeah. [2:17:27] I couldn't put – once I printed out the track listing for the record that I had made, I would make CD records and sell them at school like five bucks a pop. I made more money selling records in high school than I ever did as an adult. [2:17:43] I... [2:17:44] Printed out all the song lists. Anyway, the album was called Mom, I'm Gay and all the [2:17:51] I left a bunch of them, like, at the radio station. I remember the guy who was running it, he came to me, and he was like, did you print these out? [2:17:58] Are these yours? And it was just kind of awkward after that. A small town in Arkansas. Kind of far out. That's funny. [2:18:09] But, you know... [2:18:13] Folks will let a... [2:18:16] Let a young person do all kinds of stuff. I guess they see an aptitude in you. They trust you. So they let you drive a limo. I think they just needed a job. They needed someone to do the job. It's that simple. [2:18:28] And most people would... [2:18:29] only temporarily keep that job and they would leave right yeah high turnover yeah

[2:18:35] Yeah. There's high turnover at the radio station because we weren't making any dough. [2:18:38] Right. You know? [2:18:40] What year was this? This was in 1927. [2:18:46] No... [2:18:47] 2010? [2:18:49] I used to do a lot of radio when I was young and doing the road. So I'd do like morning radio shows in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. And it was the only way to promote things. Like say if you're going to do some gig in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, like you get on local radio. You tell everybody drive time radio. So you're on the air. It's like 630 in the morning. Yeah. And let everybody know you're going. Yeah. [2:19:12] Radio was a weird thing, man, because it was like a local connection, and all that stuff is kind of gone now. Mm-hmm. [2:19:19] You know, local connection used to be fun. There was something about listening to the local radio in the morning when you're on your way to work. [2:19:27] It was kind of cool. It was great. And you knew that most of your friends were listening to. Right. They had a program called... [2:19:35] Like, I forget what it was, but... [2:19:37] on... [2:19:39] Every morning, they would go through the sponsors of the radio station, which were all local businesses, and they would say, here's a cup of coffee for Burns Drug. And it was just like a call out to Burns Drug, Burns Pharmacy or whatever, and then you'd hear the sound of a coffee cup. The obituaries ran, you'd listen to them, you'd be like, oh, Janine died. [2:19:59] Damn it. We had to go to the memorial. They would tell what the hillbillies – like the mascot was the hillbillies and like how high school football was doing and stuff like that. I wonder if anybody is creating that in podcasts. I wonder if there's any good local podcasts.

[2:20:17] that are just about the community. [2:20:19] That you could like tune into every day. Like here's the news, you know. [2:20:24] I might have to start one. [2:20:25] Why not? This local. Why not? Anonymous and local. Yeah, just don't even say it's you. No, no, no. Make up another name. Yeah. Yeah. [2:20:33] This is Bob Butts. [2:20:35] And people go... [2:20:36] I know who that is. No, you don't. I heard that dude. I'm not who... You gonna do a different voice? I know you... [2:20:43] But you don't know me. Are you going to... [2:20:47] Change your voice? You should do that. Do the local news with one of those things like an FBI informant. We went into the house at 4.30 in the morning. You know what I mean? Those are spooky. When they have those people on TV with their face blacked out. [2:21:02] Those vice. Are you sure that the government was involved? 100%. They had to know. [2:21:08] The information came down from the top. Shother face. Yeah, shother face. They're going to get him killed. [2:21:16] Oh, man. Um... [2:21:19] How many... do you do a lot of live gigs? Yeah. How many live gigs do you do? Do you do, like, in a week, do you do a bunch? Like, how do you do it? No, I just schedule tours, so... [2:21:30] Like tomorrow I'll announce a tour and I think it's like... [2:21:35] 20 something dates and [2:21:37] Then I'll go out for... [2:21:39] two months and play. You just play solo? Do you bring someone with you? No, I bring a band. Oh, that's cool. I bring a whole band.

[2:21:47] Um... [2:21:48] And then right now I've just been in festival season, so I just played the Newport Folk Fest, Shout Out Newport. Do you do any of these songs, like United Health? Oh, yeah. You do all of them? Yeah. Nice. I got – because I'm just always putting out albums, like – [2:22:02] Yeah, like on Friday I'll put out another record too. [2:22:04] How many albums do you have so far? [2:22:06] Like five or six... [2:22:09] I'll... [2:22:09] You know, I can't... [2:22:11] I wrote like... [2:22:13] A hundred songs in twenty-four. [2:22:16] And just like put them all out. And that's what's great about being indie is like you can just – [2:22:21] you just put out music as soon as you make it. Right. So, um, so there's, but there's a lot of tunes to choose from, right? Usually, you know, on the set, I'll play a lot of these, uh, a lot of these topical ones and then bring the band up and then we'll play the other records that I got. Um... [2:22:38] But no, it's just that new... [2:22:40] Newport and then we did Edmonton Folk Fest and uh [2:22:45] Here in a little bit I'll do Farm Aid and Healing Appalachia. [2:22:51] was... [2:22:52] Like last year around this time, John Cougar Mellencamp sent me an email... [2:22:57] and was like, Jesse, I would like you to play at Farm Aid. [2:23:02] But it was from a weird email address, and I didn't believe it was him. But it was totally him, just, like, emailing through his, like, girlfriend's email or something. That's hilarious. And so I, like, I showed it. [2:23:13] to one of the...

[2:23:17] like one of my friends he has managed and he's like i'll vet this out we'll see if this is legit and sure enough it was anyway go down to farm aid and that's like one of the first [2:23:30] gigs that I play as this iteration. [2:23:33] of myself. [2:23:36] But I got to meet... [2:23:38] A lot of cool people and get to be friends with... [2:23:41] with a lot of them too. Lucas Nelson is [2:23:45] It was very cool to meet him last year. Now I think we'll be doing a tune together here before too long. Nice. [2:23:52] Him, I got to meet Charlie over there at Farm Aid. Charlie. Charlie Crockett. Oh, Charlie's awesome. He's super cool. I really enjoyed talking to him. Yeah, he's great. He was a great guest. What a wildlife that guy's lived. Yeah. That's like, that comes out in his music. There's something about hard living, like living an authentically difficult life that you hear it in the way they sing. Yeah. You hear it. It's real. Yeah. [2:24:20] You know, there's like an intangible element to certain songs. [2:24:25] you know, [2:24:26] It's how it be. Yeah. Yeah. [2:24:28] Well, AI is not going to fix that. They're not going to – you know what I mean? Like AI is not going to overcome that. No, I don't know. That's maybe the only thing that AI is not going to overcome. I would be worried. I don't understand why. [2:24:42] musicians. You know, they're making... I'm going to send you something, Jamie. I don't know if you've seen this, where they made a female indie, like, emo, whatever it would be, band lady. And

[2:24:56] It's really fucking good. [2:24:58] Like you listen to it and you're like, holy shit, I sent it to Patrick. [2:25:03] uh, from, uh, the black keys, Patrick Carney. And, uh, [2:25:08] And his answer was like, pop music is AI, has been for a while. Good thing I suck at drums and make it human. Yeah. [2:25:16] Yeah. [2:25:18] I'm going to send this to you, Jamie, because you... [2:25:21] You hear it and you're like, oh my god, this could be a fucking giant hit. And the crazy thing is that AI makes this in seconds. [2:25:30] I mean in literal seconds. Like you watch this guy put in the prompts. [2:25:35] You watch it make this song, and then you listen to the song, and you're like... [2:25:39] Oh my god, and it's better than most [2:25:43] of these songs. Like, listen to this. Create a square avatar of a fictitious female alternative slash indie singer and a name for her. [2:25:51] Wow, Sadie Winters. Sadie Winters, okay. The song is about walking away from someone who never really saw her worth... [2:25:58] It's just going to create the song lyrics. [2:26:01] Look at that. Wait, how many seconds was that? [2:26:03] That was like about four seconds. Look at that. That's got a bridge. Did you even read any of these? You don't care. [2:26:10] I don't care. Put my lyrics in. The lyrics that happen in four seconds. Yes. And then hit create. Let's listen. This is the world premiere. I was paper. You were scissors. Cut me out.

[2:26:29] She's a good singer. Good singer. [2:26:36] Ooh, that's nice. Pretty good. [2:26:40] Where are we, Rick? Where have we found ourselves? How crazy is that? I mean, it's pretty amazing. Jewel even says, Jewel goes, wow, it's a great melody. Yeah, listen. Everything that can be replaced will be replaced. [2:26:56] Okay. And pop music was already AI. Patrick has a great point. Yeah. [2:27:03] I don't think artists... [2:27:04] what you're making. Knock, knock. [2:27:08] I don't think you got nothing to worry about. [2:27:10] Well, [2:27:11] It's not a worry. I mean, for some people, I'm sure it's a worry, but it also is just... [2:27:16] a concern that there's a new element [2:27:18] of society. So, [2:27:21] There's... [2:27:22] creativity is being replaced in at least a form in front of our eyes. Regardless of what you think about pop music, there are some people that are making pop music as a creative endeavor, and that just did it way better than they do and did it like that. They'll have to find something else to do. They'll have to find something else to do. They'll have to listen to something else in JCPenney. [2:27:48] Who still goes to JCPenney? Are they still around? [2:27:52] You're at JCPenney? Yeah. At where you are? I go with JCPenney. I'm not knocking it. I'd go if I needed something. I'm just saying I haven't seen one in a long time. They're out there. I see Targets everywhere. I don't see JCPenney anywhere. The music like that always, yeah, I feel like I'm in an academy. Yeah. Yeah. Right. You're buying sneakers somewhere. I just need something to go in the background, some non-confrontational music. Yeah.

[2:28:19] carry through. But what you said, I think, is right. [2:28:22] That if you can be replaced, you will be replaced. Yeah. All things that can be replaced will be replaced. It's how it has always been as long as man has been around. Everything that can be replaced will be replaced. But there are things that are irreplaceable. [2:28:35] Right. [2:28:36] Yeah. [2:28:38] I mean, that's kind of... [2:28:39] in every... [2:28:41] Every new iteration of technology, we're seeing things get replaced, right? Right. Like when I was a kid, VHS was the newest technology. Like, oh my God, you could watch a movie at home. Yeah. No one ever thought Blockbuster was ever going to go away. Of course there's always going to be a Blockbuster. Right. Every Friday night, everybody goes to Blockbuster to find a movie to watch. [2:28:58] Gone. Yeah. Doesn't exist anymore. Gone like that. Like real quick. Streaming, internet speeds, pickup, it's over. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, remember record sales? Yeah. [2:29:07] Oh, my goodness. They would make millions and millions and millions just from selling records. Now it all went away. Napster came along, and some people freaked out. [2:29:16] And some people lost a lot of fans because they freaked out too, like to try to stop the tide of inevitability. And you didn't. [2:29:23] Thank you. [2:29:24] Hetfield and... [2:29:26] I mean Metallica was eventually kind of right about [2:29:30] What they said about Napster, right? Oh, they knew. Yeah. They knew what was – Well, they knew it was going away. Yeah. It was all going away. I mean everybody kind of understood that this is – if you're logical and objective, you could pretend like, oh, don't worry. We're going to be fine. But if you're logical and objective, you go, oh, this is just the first bullet that landed in this never-ending war. Right. Right.

[2:29:52] with digital... [2:29:54] information like you're not going to be able to prevent this from happening yeah i think the record companies have figured out how to make money off of streaming and to make sure that the artist probably doesn't get all that much of it well this is the beautiful thing about being independent if you're independent you can make money off of streaming and if you're independent [2:30:12] You get all of your touring revenue, which is really where it's at. You get all of it. Yeah, you make enough to pay for another tour. Well, it depends on how successful you are. But this is what's really crazy about some of the deals that some of these artists are signing where the label gets a giant percentage of their touring money, which didn't used to be the case. It used to be like an artist. They got to find a way to pull it in somehow if they're not selling the records. Exactly. They get a piece of merch. They get a piece of this. They get a piece of everything. They just own you. [2:30:42] And what value do they provide other than you getting the security of saying, "I'm on Warner Brothers"? Just standing in the way every time you try to put out an album, they go, "I don't hear a hit here." It's like, "Well, because there are none." Okay? Wait for the next record. It's out in two months. But they want to make as much as they possibly can off of one record. And the one record, it puts an immense amount of pressure on an artist without... [2:31:07] without developing the artist at all. [2:31:10] Ah... [2:31:11] It's, what's Hunter Eston? The music industry is a shallow money trench where good men die like dogs, you know? [2:31:21] It's a racket. But don't you think that now less of it? Because there are people like you out there. There's Tyler, the creator, didn't he make most of his – everything was just created by himself online, right? I don't know. Isn't that the case?

[2:31:36] I don't know. [2:31:37] You don't know? [2:31:38] You don't know? That's too hard. I don't know. Was it a weird one? [2:31:43] I don't know. Him specifically, I don't know, but I would say that's the story that's being told. Okay. But some people have done it. Oliver Anthony for sure did it. Yeah, yeah. And it's a new pathway. If you have something that really resonates, like your United Health song or any of your songs, like – [2:31:59] That's all you need. [2:32:00] And then that one thing could change everything, and then people listen. [2:32:05] Totally. Yeah. Yeah. [2:32:06] And the fact that you're able to do it completely independently, you're able to have – [2:32:13] Like a truly authentic voice. Like it's like when you sing – [2:32:17] about who's the guy that created it that doesn't give a fuck what's his name richard t burke yeah richard t burke you could sing about richard t burke doesn't doesn't give a fuck like [2:32:28] It's... [2:32:29] no one's in your ear. Nobody's telling you to be careful. Yeah. So like I'm here and I'm like, yeah. You know, people know. [2:32:39] They know when something is authentic. It's real weird. [2:32:43] They're fucking... The way people tune into a song... [2:32:47] It's... [2:32:48] There's something going on with songs. It's not just a bunch of music and a bunch of lyrics. It changes the way you feel. Yeah. It's a drug. Yeah. It's a weird... A good song is like a good drug. Yeah, dude. Have you heard Freebird? Oh, fuck yeah. Dude. I've heard that song about a thousand...

[2:33:06] More than a thousand times. Yeah. Yeah. [2:33:08] 100,000 times maybe. Yeah, if you don't think music's a joke, listen to that fucking guitar solo. Run them with the devil. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. [2:33:18] Yeah. Yeah. [2:33:20] Yeah. [2:33:21] A whole lot of love. [2:33:23] Yeah. Yeah. It's fired up, dog. There's songs that change the way you feel that if that was a drug, that would be a very valuable drug. Yeah. [2:33:32] You know? [2:33:33] they're little little mood capsules man yeah I want to feel melancholy here's yesterday by the Beatles right right yesterday yeah there's a bunch of songs like that Captain Jack you know Captain Jack Captain Jack will get you high tonight [2:33:51] Oh, I was thinking of Captain Fantastic with Elton John. Captain Jack is one of Billy Joel's greatest songs. It's a great fucking song. This guy living on Long Island. [2:34:02] It's great. [2:34:02] It's a great song. It's like you listen to it, you're like, God damn, he nailed it. He fucking nailed it. [2:34:08] He's one of the greats, man. Dude, um... [2:34:12] I really appreciate you coming in, and I really love what you're doing. Thanks for having me. I just wanted to. [2:34:16] So I want to have you in here, shoot the shit with you, see what your process was and how you think about things. I really enjoyed it. [2:34:23] Thanks for having me, Joe. My pleasure. Tell everybody what's the best place to find you and find your stuff. [2:34:30] I'm... [2:34:30] You know, I'm online. [2:34:32] So... [2:34:33] Go, you know, get online. Do you have a – what is your Instagram?

[2:34:37] Wells Music. Wells Music. There it is. W-E-L-L-E-S. Yeah. So it's wellsmusic.com. Tour dates are all there. Yeah. Go out and see them. [2:34:52] Support. [2:34:53] Dude, continued success and best of luck to you. I really enjoy what you're doing. Thanks very much. My pleasure, brother. All right. Goodbye, everybody. [2:35:15] This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew. Listen up. Blue Chew just dropped something wild. They're calling it Blue Chew Gold. And honestly, the name fits. The stuff is setting a whole new standard for performance in the bedroom. It's not your typical blue pill. It combines two ingredients for blood flow with two for mental arousal and connection. [2:35:45] It's not just about being able to perform. It's about actually wanting to. And I've got a special deal for you listeners. Right now, when you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third free with the promo code ROGAN. You'll also receive an additional 10% off plus free overnight shipping on your first order. Visit BlueChew.com for more details and important safety information. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact.

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