The Gospel According to Trump

[00:00] Pod Save America is brought to you by SimpliSafe. Between the news cycle and [00:03] daily to-do lists. Your brain probably already has too many tabs open. Your home security system shouldn't be one of them. With SimpliSafe, you can easily customize the system that's right for your home at simplisafe.com, and it ships to your door in a few days. With that guided setup and no drilling required, you can install and arm your system in under an hour. No need to wait around for a technician appointment. It's not just a camera. It's a comprehensive ecosystem of sensors, cameras for inside and out, and 24-7 professional monitoring. In the event of a break-in, fire, or flood, SimpliSafe's agents are ready to take action. There are no long-term contracts or [00:33] Safe earns your business by keeping you safe, not by trapping you in a contract. Get 24-7 monitoring for a fraction of what the traditional brands charge. [00:41] Love it. Take it away. [00:42] I set up a simply safe home security system. Boy, it was easy to do. And I customize it and then it comes and you set it up in a matter of minutes. It's really intuitive. And then the app is really great. The customer support is very reliable and it just gives you peace of mind. [00:54] How about that? [00:55] We've partnered with SimpliSafe to offer an exclusive discount to our listeners. Right now, you can get 50% off your new system by visiting simplisafe.com. That's half off. [01:03] It's simplisafe.com slash crooked. There's no safe. [01:06] like SimpliSafe. [01:07] Looking for more than just a job? Brightview Senior Living is opening Brightview North Facts in Fairfax, Virginia. And we're hiring across all departments, from dining and caregiving to maintenance, sales and leadership. This is your chance to be part of something from the very beginning. At Brightview North Facts, you'll find a team that supports you, values you, and a career that can grow with you. Text BVJOBS to [redacted phone] or visit careers.brightviewseniorliving.com to apply.

[01:37] Thank you. [01:58] Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On today's show, the Holy War rolls on. Trump is still fighting with the Pope. [02:08] Father about theology, and Pete Hegseth is leading the troops in prayer using a fake Bible quote from Pulp Fiction. [02:15] We'll get into all of that, as well as the latest with Trump's other war in Iran, which, according to Trump, is either over or just getting started, sometimes in the same sentence. We'll talk about Republicans in Congress hitting the panic button on the, quote, nonsense coming out of Trump's mouth and RFK Jr.'s trip to Capitol Hill, where TMZ asked him about a newly surfaced diary entry in which he writes about cutting the penis on [02:42] off of a dead raccoon, [02:43] To quote, [02:44] Study it later. [02:47] That's what she said. I guess. I don't know. Then Minnesota Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan, one of the Democrats in the primary for the open Senate seat there, talks with Tommy about the race and dealing with the ICE occupation of her state. Quick reminder before we start, please consider becoming a Crooked Media subscriber if you haven't already.

[03:07] so that you don't miss out on any of the fresh, fresh content we're putting out just for Friends of the Pod. Subscribers get our new extra episode of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends. [03:19] Other subscriber-only shows like Polar Coaster with Dan Pfeiffer, [03:23] How's the new episode? What did you guys talk about this week? We talked about the impact of Eric Swala's campaign imploding on the California governance race and whether Democrats are still at risk of getting locked out of the top two spots. And I guess the answer is maybe. [03:36] The answer is there it. Everyone's got everyone's got to subscribe and tune into Polar Coaster. But yeah, I mean, let's not give the milk away for free here. I will say and, you know, I'm willing to do this. I was very I was very forward leaning on Tuesday's pod being like, no, I had read the message box. And I think that the math is it's I think now that Swalwell dropped out and Trump endorsed Steve Hilton were OK now. And Tommy's like, I don't know. I talked to some people. They're still a little worried. And I was like, hmm. And now Tommy was right. [04:06] No, I think, look, this is not the topic of this pod, but I think that we, there's still a risk, of course. I think the risk is dramatically less than it was prior to both the Trump endorsement of Steve Hilton and Eric Swalwell dropping out. And I will not ask you why, because everyone's got to go subscribe. [04:21] to Friends of the Pod, so you can go listen to Polo Coaster and all of our other good stuff. You also get access to all of our excellent sub-sect newsletters like Pod Save America open tabs, ad-free episodes of all your favorite Crooked Pods, and you get to feel good. [04:32] about supporting an independent pro-democracy media outlet. [04:36] What more could you ask for? Head to crooket.com slash friends and subscribe.

[04:41] All right, Dan, let's get to the news. The MAGA attack on the Catholic Church has somehow intensified since President Trump called the Holy Father weak on crime and warned the first American pontiff that he better, quote, get his act together. [04:55] our deeply Christian Speaker of the House and Catholic Vice President, faced with a choice between God and Trump. [05:02] did exactly what you imagined they'd do. [05:13] to be careful when he talks about matters of theology. I think he said several days back that something about those who engage in war, you know, that Jesus doesn't hear their prayers or something. You know, it is a very well-settled matter of Christian theology. There's something called the Just War Doctrine. There's a time to every purpose under him. There's just Catholics explaining to the Pope. I mean, there's just so much to say about this. So much to say. The absolute arrogance of J.D. Vance to lecture the Pope [05:43] on when it is appropriate to talk about theology and to have the audacity to compare the importance of his words as the mostly powerless vice president of the United States, whose job is to attend funerals to the pope, is nuts. It's just it's absolutely – there are so many ways to – just like – there are so many ways for J.D. Vance to address this, and he chose the absolute worst one. He just became a Catholic like five minutes ago. John, does he have a book coming out? Yes, he does have a book coming out.

[06:13] This is probably going to do wonders for his book sales, I guess. That book is about his conversion to Catholicism, which did happen seven years ago. The Pope, who is really just the direct descendant, really, from Jesus Christ himself and Peter, the first Pope of the church in Catholic doctrine. You know, what he says, that's sort of been church doctrine for a couple thousand years. [06:43] from BC to AD. That's how long the Pope's going. And J.D. Vance has about seven years and a fucking book under his belt. So that's what he went on to say, because the full quote was crazy, which we didn't have time for it all in the clip. But he said, and I think that one of these issues here is that there has been, if you're going to opine [07:03] On matters of theology, you've got to be careful. [07:07] you've got to make sure it's anchored in the truth. And that's one of the things that I try to do. And it's certainly something I would expect from the clergy, whether they're Catholic or Protestant. This is the tell, by the way, that he is a new Catholic, because you don't just refer to the Pope as part of the clergy. He's the pontiff. He's the Holy Father. He is the Bishop of Rome. It's like there is the theological... [07:34] Miss... [07:35] There's incorrectness in what he's saying, and then there's just the political stupidity of it all. [07:39] It's like you look like an asshole if you were telling the pope when they can talk about theology. You just sound insane.

[07:50] Before we move on from Vance, because I know there's a lot more to talk about, the U.S. Catholic bishops did release a statement in response to Vance. And first of all, they talk about just war theory. This is also a response to Mike Johnson, I guess, who's decided to riff on just war theory. [08:09] And then, this was the best line, [08:39] It's the vigor of Christ. And like... [08:42] Look, it's been a long time since I have delved into my Jesuit education, but – [08:50] Mike Johnson doesn't even understand chessboard theory. [08:52] Because there's two parts of it. There is the just war and why you go to war, which is what the bishops are about there. And then there is justice and how you conduct the war. And that's exactly what the Pope is talking about here, because the president of the United States threatened, regardless of what the original reason for going to war was, even if there was a just reason for going to war, it is not a just war.

[09:22] entire country, all the civilians, all the women, the children, the families, everyone else, off the face of the planet in service of trying to win that war. That is not a just war, and that is why the Pope spoke out. And someone shouted at J.D. Vance at that event, Jesus doesn't support genocide. And J.D. Vance did allow... [09:42] because he is a caring, thoughtful man. He said, oh, no, yes, I agree. Jesus is not for genocide. [09:51] So thank you. Thank you, teacher. [09:54] Not to be outdone by his colleagues, holy warrior Pete Hegseth, who often sounds like he turned a little too much water into wine before his public appearances. [10:09] to a Jewish religious sect that persecuted Jesus. Let's listen. [10:18] The Pharisees. [10:20] But their hearts were hardened. Even though they witnessed a literal miracle, it didn't matter. [10:27] They were only there to explain away the goodness. [10:31] in pursuit of their agenda. Our press are just like these Pharisees. Your politically motivated animist for President Trump [10:39] nearly completely blinds you. [10:41] from the brilliance. [10:43] of our American warriors. [10:45] It doesn't even make sense as an analogy, as blasphemous as it is.

[10:52] Like, so our military is Jesus? [10:59] in this scenario and in the around war is no no trump is jesus trump is trump is jesus right because and trump bombing iran is healing the sick yes yes yes and because they hate jesus so much they can't recognize i hate trump they cannot recognize the brilliance of our troops yes yeah and the fair i don't know where the troops fit into this i guess they're the healing [11:29] Against the troops. No, of course it's not. Press coverage is just covering a war. [11:34] Covering a war that is stupid. No one is even suggesting that the military... [11:40] has not done a very good job of executing... [11:42] the goals that were given to them. [11:44] They just think the war is stupid and the goals were stupid. Yeah. Yeah. What would be like, what would be like Jesus healing person in the temple? Would it be when we blew up a school in Southern Iran and, and killed a couple hundred children? Is that, is that, [11:59] Is that analogous to the story of the Pharisees and Jesus? Yeah, it's just, like, what is he doing? And there's just this other element of this, which is, this is like, now we're getting into Ben Tommy nerddom, but... [12:13] The audience for this in Pete Hanks' mind is Donald Trump and no one else. [12:17] But the audience, when the Secretary of Defense speaks during a war, is not just –

[12:24] the American public, it's the world. And when you're at war, [12:29] with a Muslim nation to constantly be using religious Christian, religious imagery to do it. You are that, you are, [12:39] That is so counterproductive because it feeds the suggestion that they can be weaponized against the United States that this is a religious war. It's a war on Islam, which is a tool that was used during post-911, the Iraq war by Islam. [12:56] Al-Qaeda, ISIS, others, to recruit people against the United States. It's so stupid to do it that way. Also, we blew by just using religious imagery a long time ago. He said today, he specifically said, we are fighting this war in the name of Jesus Christ. Yes. And everything you said is true. Also, if you don't expect to get pushback from the Pope and the Catholic Church when you say that you are fighting a war in the name of Jesus Christ, this isn't like... [13:24] God bless our troops. God keep our troops safe. It's nothing like that. It is like we are fighting a war in the name of Jesus Christ, which, of course, the Pope was like, wait a minute. No, that's a no, no. That's just a no, no. Always. I have a say on that. Yeah. Remember the Crusades? That was bad. We don't want to go back to that. So anyway, Pope Leo, who was in Cameroon on Thursday, delivered some remarks that may or may not have been a response to all this. You can

[13:54] But woe to those who manipulate religion in the very name of God for their own military, economic, or political gain. [14:03] dragging that which is sacred into darkness and filth. [14:08] Okay, then. Good for Pope Leo. Trump was asked Thursday morning about the church's statement that Pope Leo isn't expressing his opinion. He's preaching the gospel, to which the president responded, quote, I'm all about the gospel. [14:25] That's what everyone says about him, Mr. Gospel. [14:38] quote i don't think it's necessary day five of maga versus the holy sea what do you think dan this is going well for maga in this case we might take i mean let's not forget that what actually started this was the department of defense meeting with the vatican to threaten them with military military response yeah or opposing the war on iran yeah suddenly this is not just like a bunch of [15:03] which is possibly the most insane thing that's happened in all of the Trump years. Yeah. [15:07] Probably the most insane thing that's ever happened in the history of the relationship between the Catholic Church and the U.S. government. [15:14] Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know what... [15:17] I don't know if my historical knowledge would suggest that, but yeah, probably. I mean, it's pretty. It's wild. [15:22] And just – but also just the political idiocy of saying, you know what? I got high gas prices. I got this war going on. My approval rating –

[15:32] under 40 now, you know what would be a really good move for me? Let's pick a fight with the American Pope from Chicago. [15:39] Yeah. [15:40] It's just like, like what? [15:44] It's so stupid. And like... [15:47] Pope Leo, not backing down, he continued to say in that speech in Cameroon, the world is being ravaged by a handful of tyrants, yet it is held together by a multitude of supportive brothers and sisters. The masters of war pretend not to know that it only takes a moment to destroy, yet often a lifetime is not enough to rebuild. It's pretty, pretty direct. And it's also like Trump, Trump today. And that when he was being asked questions, you could tell that someone like someone tried to walk him back a little because he's like, I'm not fighting with the pope. The pope said Iran can have a nuclear weapon. [16:17] I just disagreed with him. First of all, the Pope didn't say that at all. But you could tell he was like maybe wanting to back down. But throughout the week, I mean, he called up an Italian newspaper to yell about Georgia Maloney, the Italian prime minister, because she defended... [16:33] the Pope who resides in the Vatican, which is in Italy. [16:38] And so he called her unacceptable and said she was cowardly, said, I thought she was brave, but I was wrong. So he pissed off his now former right wing ally, the prime minister of Italy. On Wednesday, the Miami Herald reported that the Trump administration abruptly canceled an $11 million contract with Catholic charities in Miami to shelter and care for migrant children who come to the U.S. with no parents.

[17:03] We must punish the migrant children because Trump said that Pope Leo was weak on crime, and Pope Leo said, no, I'm not. I'm the pope. I mean, I know you guys are talking about this on Tuesday, but I have been laughing nonstop about – Pope Leo, weak on crime. Just like what does he think? There's some silent majority who wants a law and order pope? Like what are we doing? Pope Leo is weak on crime, weak on nuclear. [17:29] He's – [17:30] It's so fucking stupid. He's for they them. Yeah, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I'm for you. [17:40] Someone should make a Trump attack out on the Pope. [17:49] But on Tuesday's pod, there was another AI image of Trump, of Jesus with his arm around Trump. Tucker Carlson said it looked like he was caressing Trump. Tucker Carlson, by the way, Tommy and I talked about this on YouTube. You should go check it out. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. But Tucker gave this monologue where he basically said, [18:11] Not basically, he did compare Donald Trump to the Antichrist by reading passages from the Bible about what the Antichrist would look like if he came. And sure enough, it was it was it was a little more similar than I had than I thought it would be. Actually, when I first when I first listened to it, I. [18:31] There was also an Axios story that sort of got to the bottom of how the original AI Jesus meme came to be.

[18:40] Did you read the story, Dan? Is this the Bill Pulte one? Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Bill Pulte. Every terrible thing that Trump does starts with Bill Pulte. Yep. Who, if you don't know, is the head of mortgages, basically? Yeah, he's supposed to be the Federal Housing Authority, Fannie, Freddie, Mortgages. [18:59] FHFA. FHFA, right. That's his official title. What he's been doing, well, what he's been doing is fucking up everything, but he's been [19:10] for mortgage fraud unsuccessfully. He's been pissing off [19:15] Scott Besant, who has gotten in fights with him and almost kicked the shit out of him. And apparently he was with Donald Trump in Mar-a-Lago. [19:24] And here's what Axios reports. At some point, Pulte brought the image to Trump's attention of AI Jesus, the meme. The advisors told Axios, it's not clear whether he just displayed the rendering on his phone or actually sent it to the president. Quote, everyone thought it was a joke, one of the advisors said. [19:45] in a smart brevity way, Axios writes, the intrigue. Adding to the strangeness of the AI-generated image Trump posted late Sunday was that it included a mysterious horned creature in the heavens that some interpreted as a demon, though art experts cautioned against reading too much into AI slop. But the original image of Trump as Christ-like healer didn't include the horned

[20:15] Trump posted it, the horned creature appeared. So, let's dig into this for a second. Lending credence to Tucker's belief that perhaps Trump really is the Antichrist. So, do you think that... [20:30] Bill Pulte just gave Trump a newer version of that meme or the White House altered it or at some point Satan himself got involved. [20:42] Honestly, none of those possibilities would surprise me. [20:46] Yes, in fact, the most likely one, maybe the last one. I was going to say, the one that involves the White House doctoring an image itself and trying to figure out how to act, that actually strikes me as the least plausible because that takes too much work and talent. So I don't think that's it. But who knows? Who knows? It's hard to say. How do you think Catholic Trump voters feel about this, Dan? Because I will say I would have thought not. They wouldn't be too happy about it. [21:16] Just so people know, Catholic vote, Obama won American Catholics 54-45 in 2008. Since then, Catholics have steadily moved right. Trump won them 55-43 in 2024. [21:30] And then I saw something rather alarming today when I read [21:34] JVL's The Triad, The Bulwark, as I always do. And he said that he's on Sarah Longwell's focus group pod this weekend. And he's like, oh, I don't want to give too much away. But basically he said that it was a lot of Catholics who voted for Trump. Like Trump voter, Trump supporting Catholics. And they took Trump's side in Trump versus Trump.

[21:55] Pope Leo. Let's lay the groundwork. Sure. Which is there are. [22:00] Um, in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona, more than a quarter of the electorate is Catholic. In the three blue wall states, there's about five and a half million Catholics. If 300,000 of those switch their votes. [22:15] In 2024, Kamala Harris will be president today. So like this is the Catholic vote is very powerful in this country and it's particularly powerful in the states that decide the presidency. And it's worth noting that a huge swath of Catholics in this country are Latino. [22:31] which is partially explains the big shit because Catholics in, [22:35] were basically tied in 2020 with Biden. Then they moved dramatically in Trump's way in 2024. That's mostly white Catholics, but also a lot of it is Latinos moving in Trump's direction. Makes sense. But it's also worth noting that people's, [22:50] Political identity is often preeminent on these things, which is why you had a bunch of Catholics who voted for Obama despite him being pro-choice, despite putting contraceptive care in the Affordable Care Act, changing position in 2012 to – [23:07] Being for same-sex marriage, all of those things. So you would not expect a triple-voting Trump Catholic to all of a sudden change their mind because of – [23:18] This fight. Yeah, that's true. Now, having said all of that, I think this is a problem for Trump beyond just Catholics. The dumb Trump fights that we've been living with for 10 years.

[23:28] Just hit different when gas is $4 a gallon. [23:32] And when people are upset about everything else, if the economy is humming and prices are low, people put up with a lot of idiocy from their president. [23:38] When things are not going great, they're just like this. This goes in there with the ballroom, the Iran war, all the other things he's doing other than solving my problem. So so I put it the following is this is bad for Trump politically, even if a tiny fraction of Catholics in the states I mentioned turn on Trump for this. That's that has real implications for Trump. [24:00] House races in those states, Senate races in those states, like the Michigan Senate race, for instance, and in 2028, if it stays that way. I also think if you're a Trump supporter who is... [24:11] either against or unsure of this war. And you were also sort of horrified by his threat to eradicate a civilization overnight. And then... [24:23] Pope Leo speaks and you're like, yeah, that's how I feel. And I'm a Catholic. And then Trump attacks Pope Leo. I think that's an added sort of push in another direction for you as a Catholic. So you're right. It's like this stuff is on the margins as everything is. [24:38] One more thing before we leave our Holy War section. Pete Hegseth, who is clearly well-versed in Scripture, delivered a stirring prayer to soldiers at a Pentagon worship service this week, an excerpt of which the Internet has helpfully spliced together with a monologue, [24:51] that may be familiar to you. Let's listen. Blessed is he who in the name of camaraderie and duty shepherd the lost through the valley of darkness. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will.

[25:03] Shepherds the weak [25:04] Through the valley of darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper. [25:09] and the finder of lost children. - For he is truly his brother's keeper. [25:13] the finder [25:14] And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to capture and destroy my brother. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. [25:32] This guy's crushing it, huh? [25:34] Well, it's important to point out that that's not a real verse. [25:38] It's based on a real verse, but it is – when you look at the real verse versus Samuel L. Jackson's monologue in Pulp Fiction written by Quentin Tarantino, it is quite different. Yeah, it's – Quentin Tarantino took it from a samurai movie, I believe, which is originally where this comes from. I learned this in college because I was in college when this movie came out. I'm old, I know. [26:04] Jesuit University, we were in theology. And so it was pointed out that this was not the exact right version of this line from Scripture. You think Pete Hegseth skipped that class, that theology class, whatever college he went to? Was it before noon? [26:22] enough said enough said anyway that's our that's our defense secretary right there just sending the troops into battle with that so good stuff

[26:42] Pod Save America is brought to you by HIMSS. [26:45] ED is way more common than most guys think. Millions of guys deal with it at some point, and that's exactly why HIMSS offers a straightforward way to handle it. HIMSS connects you with licensed healthcare providers online, giving you simple access to legitimate ED treatment options from home. No awkward appointments, no pharmacy lines, just complete a simple online intake, and a provider will review your information to determine if treatment is right for you if prescribed. [27:06] Your treatment ships directly at your door in discrete packaging. [27:10] That includes Sildenafil, also known as generic for Viagra, available through HIMSS at up to 95% less than the brand name version. And if that option isn't right for you, there are additional treatment options available so you can find what works best for your body. It's straightforward, transparent, and designed to make getting care feel easy. [27:27] So, you know. [27:28] Go check it out. [27:30] It says, you know, it says that you can get the straightforward way to handle it. Yeah, it'll handle it. You can handle it or not handle it. And it says that these are great treatment options from home. And I think home is the best place to do it. [27:41] You know, on the list of places where you could get the treatment. To get simple online access, to personalized, affordable care for ED, weight loss, and more, [27:49] Visit hims.com slash crooked. That's hims.com slash crooked for your free online visit hims.com slash crooked. Prescription required. See website for details and important safety information. So Denifil is the generic name of Viagra. Viagra is a registered trademark of the actress. [28:03] Specialty LLC, HIMSS is not affiliated with or endorsed by Viatris. [28:09] Pod Save America is brought to you by CookUnity. I love CookUnity. Love it.

[28:13] Uh, I've been ordering cook unity since long before they were ever a sponsor. My meals got delivered while we were doing this app. Literally. I was going to, I pulled up my order. Checking it out. Italian beef ragu with zucchini noodles. Sign me up. Martin's Ecuadorian chicken, braised beef, barbacoa tacos, crispy pan fried Cajun salmon. I could go on, but I won't. [28:33] It's all delicious. Come to the house once a week, get five or six meals. [28:38] Pop them in the microwave a couple of minutes or you can reheat them in the oven or the air fryer. Or their salads. You just eat them right out of the thing. They're great. They're fresh. I got the Italian chicken rollatini. The grilled chicken salad. The Middle Eastern chicken. Thai penang curry. I love the Thai penang curry. It's great. Love it. [29:00] So here's the deal. If you've got culinary taste, you know how expensive exploring your local food scene can get or how hard it is to find the time and energy to try somewhere new. Cook Unity is the first chef to you service delivering locally sourced meals from award winning chefs right to your door every week. And it's cheaper than other delivery options. Go to cookunity.com slash crooked or enter code crooked before checkout for 50 percent off your first week. Cook Unity works with some of the best chefs in the country to bring creative, delicious meals to you every week. [29:30] facilities, your food arrives fresh, never frozen, and packaging that keeps meals fresh in the fridge for up to seven days. CookUnity packaging is compostable, recyclable, or reusable. Pick as few as four or as many as 16 meals per week. There are hundreds of dishes to choose from, and the menu is updated constantly. Experience chef-quality meals every week delivered right to your door. Go to cookunity.com slash crooked or enter code crooked before checkout for 50% off your first week. That's 50% off your first week by using code crooked or going to cookunity.com

[30:00] Thank you. [30:04] So the war that the President and the Pope are fighting about is still very much unresolved, despite Trump's repeated claims to the contrary. The US is still blockading Iran's ports. [30:12] Iran is still controlling the Strait of Hormuz, and we learned on Thursday morning that because the U.S. and Iran are still far apart on minor issues like the fate of Iran's nuclear program, the two sides are looking at a short-term agreement before the ceasefire expires on Tuesday that would allow for more traffic to get through the Strait of Hormuz in exchange, potentially for unfreezing some Iranian assets. [30:42] So hopefully that holds. Trump was asked about all of this Thursday morning and gave his usual set of confusing and somewhat contradictory answers. Let's listen. [31:12] It's been incredible. It's been it's held. They're not doing any business. They're unable to do any business because of the blockade. Everything is gone, including their leaders. Now they have a new set of leaders and we find them very reasonable. There's no deal. Fight or resume. No deal. Fighting will resume. 10,000 more American troops are headed to the region right now on top of the 50,000 already there.

[31:34] So like it is really I found it more difficult today to figure out what the hell is going on than even most days, because you get all this reporting that like they gave up on the big deal. Now they're trying to get a smaller deal and a ceasefire because the ceasefire expires on Tuesday. And then Trump's out there being like, we're close. We're close to a big deal. And I think I'll fly to Pakistan, to Islamabad if there's a deal. And talks could resume this weekend. [32:04] resuming this weekend. Like, I have no idea what's going on. But do you think from a political standpoint, at least that Trump is succeeding in pretending that we've already won this thing, just to try to get it out of the headlines, or at least stop it from being a major topic in the midterms, which obviously, it still will be if gas prices are high. But what do you think? Yeah, so let's talk about what Trump's actually trying to do here, other than just vomit upwards [32:34] He wants the Strait of Hormuz open, and he wants to do that without him. [32:41] He wants to do that without admitting defeat. [32:43] But he wants a win of some kind and getting the dust would be a win, you know, getting some sort of agreement. Now, they clearly are. And he wants to keep sounding optimistic because that's the best way to keep the markets. [32:55] On board. [32:57] The stock market, not the oil market. The oil market doesn't really give a shit what Trump says. It really matters what's going to happen over the medium term and the long term here. But he's just trying to manage –

[33:05] The stock market. [33:08] The problem is, is that all of that runs into reality at some point. [33:13] And at some point you recognize that we have very little leverage in these discussions. [33:18] They control the straight. [33:19] We are unwilling or unable to do the things it would take to open the strait. [33:24] Iran could also start messing with other waterways like all of a sudden Houthis getting involved in the Red Sea. [33:29] And then we have huge problems. [33:31] And [33:33] So all but all of none of that matters in the end. I think we want to get to the political part of this, which is. [33:39] I think the most damage – [33:42] Long term damage has already been done to Trump, which is he is a guy who said he wasn't going to start wars and how he started wars. That's part one of the damage. The second part is there's always a moment in these presidents where voters have real questions, but they swallowed those questions when they voted for him. And one is that Trump's kind of a nut like Trump. [34:02] And he's, he's erratic. He's rash. He doesn't really pay attention to what's going on. And, and, [34:09] And we skated through without that being a huge problem in his first term until the pandemic hit. And then here – [34:16] Like this is what everyone warned about with Trump. It's a little bit like this is – [34:21] The Red War is to Trump what Katrina was to Bush politically, which was – [34:26] We knew the guy was kind of a knucklehead, right? And here it is. We see the cost of it. You're seeing the cost of it here. [34:33] COVID was like that too. [34:35] Yeah, COVID was, except people did not blame Trump for COVID. That was like, we see that, right? And people who really paid attention see the mistakes they made with the public never held Trump accountable for COVID, which is why he almost won re-election because of it. Yeah, I think the public definitely didn't hold him responsible for the economic impacts of COVID. I think that the way he handled that first year up until COVID.

[34:58] November of 2020, I think it probably hurt him. I mean, it's why he lost. That's why he lost. But it's on the... Like, he's still... [35:04] lost by whatever it was, 50,000 votes. Right. Yeah, not enough. Whether gas prices come down or not, prices are going to be higher than they were before. Any hope of some sort of economic miracle before the midterms that would put some wind in the sales of Republicans, that is gone now. That just simply cannot happen. Because gas prices, as far as anyone can tell, are not going to be lower than they were when he started this war, even if they're not at $4 a gallon come November. [35:30] Yeah, I was trying to think I'm like, because, you know, if the Iranians decide that even though they control the Strait of Hormuz, that their economy has been badly damaged, their infrastructure has been damaged, they've, you know, would they want to make a deal? The only kind of deal I could see them making. [35:50] ends up looking a lot like [35:53] the Obama's Iran deal, the JCPOA, right? Like they're already talking about, you know, that the U.S. is saying, okay, maybe we'll do 20 years of no nuclear activity. And then Iran says five. And then if they end up at 10, 10 is exactly what the Obama's Iran deal is. And you could imagine some kind of a deal that Trump decides to present as like the greatest deal on earth. And then when you look into the details, it is like strikingly similar. [36:23] to the 2015 JCPOA, in which case, you know, I think that like, I guess that he'll, he'll take that as a win, um, and act like it's the greatest deal. And then he should get the Nobel Peace Prize. But then it sort of begs the question, um, well, Obama got that through diplomacy and, um, you got that through, um, upending the global economy and, uh, killing a bunch of people and depleting a lot of our munitions and sending our military into battle and losing 13 American lives,

[36:53] I do not think the public will give him one ounce of credit. Yeah, no, I don't think so. I think he'll take the credit, but they won't. I don't think the public will either. But it'll be like, you know, the I think the Republicans who are sort of wavering, they'll all get back on side and then we'll be on to off to the next. You think the voters or the I think I think Republican elites, I think Republican elites. And then I think Republican voters who were mostly on board anyway. But I think that the ones he lost, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. [37:23] He's lost four points in overall approval ratings since this war started. So even getting even if we're to get every single one of the people back, it gets them to back up to 42. And I will say this is this would be the best case scenario for him. Right. And by the way, it's the best case scenario for everyone. Right. Like if there's a deal, that's that's wonderful. And the straight opens and we've somehow put new restrictions on their nuclear program. Like, great. It's I mean, awful that this happened. But of all the outcomes ahead of us, because if there is no deal, he keeps saying other than the fighting will resume. [37:53] yeah, well, we're still threatening the power plants and the bridges. They can go right back to where we were when it was bridge and power plant day and he was threatening war crimes. So that would be fucking awful, but who knows? It's like to what end? [38:05] Like that hasn't because you can destroy all those things. Like, I mean, Tommy, I'm talking about this all the time, but what Iran cares about is the people in charge care about staying in power. [38:14] And they're in power. Right. And they're not going to get – they are not concerned about the impact of destroyed power plants on the generic ballot. [38:22] No, like that. It's not that's not there. They just they can wait this out forever. Yeah. Speaking of the midterms, the Trump affordability tour continues. Took a little break. It's back on now to celebrate tax week. It was tax day this week. Trump went to Las Vegas on Thursday for a tried and true roundtable, plus remarks promoting his no tax on tips policy and broader tax relief.

[38:52] left for the trip. [38:53] Let's take a listen. [38:54] How much longer will Americans continue to see these high gas prices? Well, they're not very high. If you look at what they were supposed to be in order to get rid of a nuclear weapon, with the danger that entails. So the gas prices have come down very much over the last three, four days. I know, you know, and that's what ABC says. But the fact is that if you look at the stock markets up, everything's doing really well. [39:19] He just can't do it. He can't. [39:24] says that gas prices are high. [39:26] Okay, sure. ABC says it. Or you could just go to your fucking gas station and look up. Yeah, the one thing you're not pulling the wool over people's eyes is gas prices. The one thing that is advertised on every highway exit in America. And look, everyone knows what gas prices are supposed to be when you try to get rid of nuclear weapons, when you try to fight the nuclear. What is he saying? Is he saying imagine how high gas prices would be if we had a – I think he was – everything is – [39:54] Like I did better than I was supposed to do that. But that's either I did something amazing or if he knows he's in trouble. Well, what I did is better than what it was supposed to be. Like it doesn't make any sense. But he's trying to make the argument that like, actually, the stock market was supposed to be worse and gas prices were supposed to be higher and more people were supposed to be dead. And look, look what I did. It's not so bad. I saved us. The country would be destroyed without me.

[40:24] Fox [40:25] But it is a price – a sacrifice we all have to make to prevent Iran from posing an existential threat to the United States. Yeah, but he can't – Like that's the honest answer, but he's incapable – I mean no one would – that's not a deal anyone would sign up for. No. But that – Which he knows. [40:41] Yeah, but he can't say it. So he has to say there is this very important thing we're doing, but also gas prices are very low. And if someone tells you they're not, it's because they're fake news. So obviously Trump has stepped all over his affordability coverage by continuing his fight with God's emissary here on Earth. But question for you. [40:59] Is it clear that a day of coverage about... [41:02] The big, beautiful bill, the tax law, no tax on tips, affordability, bragging about low gas prices would have been better for him. This is the line you hear all the time from the Republicans, right? Whether it's Susie Wiles and James Blair in the White House or the Republicans on Capitol Hill, all the operatives working on the campaign superfaxes. We need Trump to get back to the economic message. [41:21] I'm just not convinced that that would work for a couple of reasons. One, Trump's incapable. He is psychologically incapable of delivering what would be the most effective economic message. [41:30] He just can't do it. He cannot say what he's doing to lower prices because he can't admit the prices are high. [41:36] Like that is the fundamental problem there. The second problem is, is that this is not Trump of 2016, Trump of 2020, or even Trump of 2024. This is a man who is 20 points underwater on the economy and 30 points underwater on inflation. He is not a trusted messenger. The efficacy of any message is intrinsically tied to the credibility of the messenger. And so Trump talking about the economy when people thought he was a, he was good on the economy was helpful.

[42:06] noise in most voters because they do not trust him. Yeah. And this whole thing about the tax bill and no tax on tips and Republicans will say, oh, well, this part's popular and that part's popular, but, [42:17] The fact of the matter is the increase in gas prices, persistent inflation has completely wiped away any gains anyone received from tax cuts, middle class tax cuts, to the extent there were middle class tax cuts in the big, beautiful bill, like no tax on tips. And I think there was a story in The New York Times about someone who was like, yeah, you know, I usually get a. [42:38] $350 refund and I got like a thousand dollars or so this year, but also way fewer people are coming to my business to buy things because it's just, it's tougher out there. And so I don't think he gets any credit for this. And you're right. Instead of talking about it as, hey, we made a down payment and we helped you out a little bit, but we need more Republicans in Congress to pass bigger tax relief or to do this, you know, like he's incapable of doing that. All he can do is [43:08] And everyone's rich now and gas prices aren't bad and the fake news media is telling you your life's bad, but everything's great. Like that's the only that's the only speed he has. I am just skeptical that when push comes to shove, the major Republican campaigns or the Republican super PACs are going to spend a lot of money touting the big, beautiful bill. [43:25] on TV and digital. They're going to spend all of their money trying to attack the Democrats. [43:31] on immigration, crime, cultural issues, et cetera, to try to disqualify them. Because that is the only chance they have is that there are enough –

[43:40] swing voters, soft Republicans, independents who are skeptical of Democrats that it might help [43:46] you know, tamp down their losses. But this idea that we are one affordability tour away from a Republican resurgence is absurd. Trump does seem like he's coming to grips with all of this, with how poorly the midterms are going. Here he is working through it on Wednesday with Maria Bartiromo on Fox Business. Do you expect the Republicans to lose seats in the House? And what does that mean for your agenda? When somebody gets elected president, that party always loses the midterms. I don't know why. [44:14] I don't know why nobody could explain it [44:16] I asked people that are deep into the psychological world, I said, why is it that a voter votes for the opposite party? [44:24] Even when you have a good president, I think I had the greatest year. Hello, people deep in the psychological world. Why is it? It's Dr. Phil. It's Dr. Phil. It's definitely Dr. Phil. Someone said Dr. Oz to me. I'm a different kind of doctor, but yes. Yeah, you're deep in the psychological world. Why is it? [44:43] That someone votes against... [44:44] A great president like me. There are so many public science professors right now who are like jumping through their phones to try to explain thermostatic public opinion to Trump. Trump discovers thermostatic public opinion. There it is. There it is. Unsurprisingly, Trump's fellow Republicans are starting to get nervous that Trump isn't exactly locked in message wise. Here's Tuesday's Politico headline. Republicans worry White House nonsense is hurting midterm prospects.

[45:14] [redacted address] to victory runs through a consistent economic message. Unfortunately, President Trump ignores the roadmap. No shit. Any takeaways from the from the Politico piece? [45:27] It is interesting that – because you don't see this that often, which is – [45:31] This is kind of a tradition in midterms where the folks on the Hill start to blame the White House this far out. And so all of a sudden you've got a lot of – [45:40] very brave Republican operatives, unwilling to put their names on things to start saying this is the white house's fault, but they are correct that look, if Trump was executing, um, [45:50] his political and message strategy perfectly. The Republicans would still be kind of fucked here. Like it is the set Trump's second midterm prices are high. There's a war in the middle East, but Trump is doing nothing to help them. And they're, they're just like, like he's doing nothing strategically to help them. He's not doing a lot tactically to help them. Let's not forget. We are now, [46:06] a month away from the Texas runoff, and Trump has not endorsed the chosen candidate of the NRC yet. Wow. There are things he could be doing to help, and he is not helping. And they are unfocused on everything, and that hurts them on the margins. Right. Right? Like the problem – I mean the real thing – [46:27] The nonsense hurts on the margins. Tariffs and a war in Iran, that really hurts. And that's the stuff that really matters here. There's a lot of focus on like Trump's going off the cuff again and not on the roadmap. And it's like, well, the war he started and the tariffs and the gas. Yeah. Like that's the it's it's not a communication problem. Yeah. It's just he's not even trying to make things better and he makes them worse when he opens his mouth. It doesn't seem to care that much about what's going to happen.

[46:57] . [47:01] Pod Save America is brought to you by Dose. Your 20-something self probably wasn't putting too much thought into your cholesterol. It certainly wasn't on my radar a decade ago. Nice that this ad thinks it was only a decade ago that I was in my 20s, but sweet of you to say Dose these days. However, keeping an eye on your cholesterol might be a standard part of your grown-up routine. That's where Dose for Cholesterol comes in. It is a daily liquid supplement designed to fit easily into your routine. It's a convenient two-ounce daily shot with a refreshing mango flavor. No mixing powders, no oversized pills, no elaborate routine to abandon after a week. [47:31] Thank you. [47:31] CoQ10 and Amla. And it is built to be simple. You grab it, take it and get on with your day. And it ships directly to your door, which makes consistency a lot more realistic. If you have been looking for an easy way to be more intentional about your daily habits, you can check out Dose for Cholesterol and their full lineup of wellness shots. New customers can save 35% on your first month of subscription by going to dosedaily.co slash crooked or entering crooked at checkout. [47:53] That's D-O-S-E-D-A-N. [47:55] I L Y dot C O slash crooked for 35% off your first month subscription. [48:01] Looking for more than just a job? Brightview Senior Living is opening Brightview North Facts in Fairfax, Virginia. And we're hiring across all departments. From dining and caregiving to maintenance, sales, and leadership. This is your chance to be part of something from the very beginning. At Brightview North Facts, you'll find a team that supports you, values you, and a career that can grow with you. Text BVJOBS to [redacted phone]. Or visit careers.brightviewseniorliving.com to apply.

[48:31] Thank you. [48:34] So, with everything going on this week, we have another chance to talk about the big news in Hungary, where autocrat Viktor Orban went down in a landslide after 16 years in power. [48:43] despite the last-minute rally from key surrogate and Catholic-splainer J.D. Vance. Orban was defeated by Peter Madyar, a conservative pro-EU former ally who turned against Orban and his party in 2024. Madyar campaigned aggressively on battling corruption and dismantling the media and political machine Orban had built. [49:13] he said had blacklisted him until now, where he told the pro-Orban presenter that he'll be working to revive independent media and that their work on the network would have made Goebbels and Kim Jong-un, quote, lick their lips. [49:29] This is wild. I've been looking at his Twitter feed, and he's just like, it's quite a victory lap here. He posted to the Fidesz leaders, that's the Orbán's party, I say this, no matter how much you pretend that nothing has happened, we know what you have done to our homeland and to the Hungarian people. Do not doubt for a moment you reap what you sow. [49:59] on the state television. And he said one of the first measures of his government will be the immediate suspension of the public media's news services until all conditions for impartial and objective journalism are fully restored and that he'll ensure press freedom, abolish censorship and eliminate prohibited state subsidies. Then he also he went to meet with the president of Hungary. The president is more of a ceremonial role than the prime minister there. But this was like an

[50:29] He said, I have arrived at the palace to meet the president. He's unworthy of representing the unity of the Hungarian nation. He's unfit to serve as the guardian of legality. He is not fit to serve as a moral authority or role model. Following the formation of the new government, he must leave office immediately. And it's just like a picture of the two of the meeting. Like, it's great. I love it. It made me think about. [50:53] fantasize about the, the, you know, what would happen if a, uh, if a Democrat comes to power in 2028. But I do wonder if you think there's any lessons for, um, the pro-democracy, uh, coalition in this country on sort of both how to take down a corrupt dictator and also what to do if we went. So let's talk about the, what to do if we went, um, [51:17] Because the... [51:19] The victory against Orban was years and years in the making and a resistance that was operating under much worse conditions than we are in the United States. We do not have state-controlled media here. [51:32] yet um and one way you can avoid that is by subscribing to boom to by subscribing to our friends of the pod at cricket.com slash friends organic mention exactly um somewhere elijah's will be cheering um i think the lesson for us is in response [51:48] which is you simply cannot turn the other cheek to fascism. [51:54] He cannot – and that – like we learned this lesson. This is essentially what Biden wanted to do. It's what Merrick Garland wanted to do until he was bullied into actually trying to uphold the law by the January 6th hearings in Congress. And there's going to be a massive project to –

[52:12] dig out root and branch all of the corruption and the corrupt that Trump has put in our government and to hold them accountable. And this is going to be hard because Trump is probably going to pardon [52:25] All of them. Yep. We didn't talk about the Wall Street Journal story from last week, I think, where Trump is reported as saying in meetings that he's going to pardon everyone who's come within 200 feet of the Oval Office that works in the federal government. And that and it's just putting a pin on that is worth noting that the Supreme Court gave Trump immunity to commit crimes and that Trump now is now given his staff immunity to help him commit those crimes. Yep. But we have to. [52:51] If you can't prosecute those people because of pardons, you have to call them out publicly. There has to be accountability hearings. They have to be named in shame. They have to be removed from their positions. We have to be tough with the people, with the law firms, the corporations, everyone else, the media companies who essentially engage in legalized bribery to try to win favor of. [53:12] with Trump, the ones who are spending money on his ballroom, who are changing the programming at networks in order to appease them. You have like and I think those people should know now and I hope the Democrats talk about this. Know now that those consequences are coming. Right. There is at least a 50 percent chance that a Democrat is going to be president in. [53:30] 2029. And what you do now is something that person is not going to forget. My head hurts thinking about the battle to come within the Democratic Party about this because.

[53:44] I would bet you that a lot of the pollsters and the strategists will say people that we know will say voters just elected ex-Democrat to to focus on affordability. And that's why they won. And they have to make sure they bring costs down. They have to be laser like focus on people's lives and their struggles and their and and we can't be spending all this time on hearings looking back because then voters are going to say, [54:14] prove my life. And all you're doing now is attacking Trump and Trump officials and looking backwards. And we have to look forward as a party. And that's that. So the strategists will say that. And then everyone else will yell at them. And it'll be a whole and it may not be even after we win. It'll probably be a fight during the 2028 primary. I bet. I don't think if I do the primary, I think they're going to be one upping each other. Yeah. Like we're like by the third debate, [54:44] live streaming of these officials. You know, and look, we know this because there was a lot of pressure on Obama to prosecute the Bush administration. [54:52] people for [54:54] Torture. [54:55] And that was a choice that Obama Department of Justice did not make. And the arguments for exactly that was that people wanted to turn the page. The issue here is that this is not a short-term political decision. This is a long-term decision related to the preservation of democracy, where that if you will, if you allow people to understand that. [55:13] Raiding our government and breaking laws for the consolidation of power is –

[55:19] something that has no consequences, and that will happen time again. And we will just be ping-ponging back and forth between democracy and being on the cusp of fascism every couple of electric cycles, and that cannot happen. I've thought about this. Here's what I would advise, which is taking a page out of the Trump playbook and Steve Bannon's sort of flood-the-zone strategy. I think you do it all. You do as much as possible in the first couple of weeks while you're still in the honeymoon phase. I saw that picture of him with the president. You go to the FBI, [55:49] cash patel you're fucking out right because the fbi director is supposed to have a [redacted address] obviously cash patel is going to stay there um and brendan carr right fcc chairman like all these people that are supposedly in the old world had terms that lasted uh through different presidencies you got to clear them all out basically every trump appointee every person trump hired i think you got to clear out of the federal government within like the first week [56:14] And because the whole prosecution thing is like, you know, [56:18] Right. Do people get pardons? Then it's like, can states do it? And the federal government doesn't control the state. So like that kind of stuff you got to just be careful about, I think. And you can't have it. You can't have it be dragging on for two years. But I do think you got to act fast in those first and that like first month to sort of and talk about it as rooting out corruption. Right.

[56:48] the work behind the scenes to like root out like, you know, de-Trumpify the entire government. And if you're doing it all at once, then that's probably even better because then they'll all bitch about it and scream and it'll be some stories like, or is so-and-so looking backwards, but then it'll go away after a month or two and then you're off to your agenda. [57:07] My hope is that this is a big part of the Project 2029. It's not just like who should be our undersecretary of whatever and what our global warming executive orders are. It is like how do we solve this problem and what is the playbook for doing that? [57:37] prosecuted, do that, but then also for the purposes of rooting the people out, holding them accountable publicly, all the above. Yeah. And you got to have a good, like, forward-looking, prospective anti-corruption agenda and put some reforms in place so that you can show people that this isn't going to happen again because we're actually going to put in laws instead of just having norms this time. Last thing before we get to Tommy's interview with Peggy Flanagan, RFK Jr. testified in Congress Thursday for the first time this year during a pair of hearings. [58:07] cutting health programs like Medicaid and nutrition for women and infants, his anti-vax policies in the midst of a measles outbreak. And according to Representative Linda Sanchez, quote, spending taxpayer dollars to drink milk shirtless in a hot tub with Kid Rock.

[58:23] It is what happened. He did put the video out himself. What he wasn't asked about, however... [58:30] is a new biography about him written by New York Post reporter Isabel Vincent, which contains the following excerpt from RFK Jr.'s private journal, written between 1999-2001. Quote, [58:43] I was standing in front of my parked car on I-684, cutting the penis out of a road-killed raccoon, thinking about how weird some of my family members have turned out to be. [58:57] Thankfully, even though RFK Jr. wasn't pressed on the raccoon penis during his testimony, TMZ's new DC operation was on hand to bring us this. [59:05] Secretary, what did you do with the raccoon's dead penis? Where is it now? Where's the penis now? [59:14] Bear cubs, whale carcasses, and raccoon penises. Oh, my. [59:20] Can I give people a little behind the scenes here? Yes. Before we do our first editorial meeting, we kind of jot out what the contours of the show might be. And we always call the last thing here that's a little bit of fun. We call it dessert. And on the outline, it said dessert colon raccoon penis. [59:37] Which it could be literal for RFK Jr. Yeah, we don't. [59:43] Refused to answer questions about whether he ate the raccoon penis. No, he's apparently going to study it later. This guy is fucking... For what? Exactly. This is our health secretary, our health and human services secretary.

[59:57] I was, I was hoping when you were raccoon penis in his pocket, I know you were traveling. Or is he happy to see you? Is that a dead raccoon penis in your pocket? Are you happy to see me? I got to say when I, when I woke up and saw that you said dessert for a raccoon penis, I was a little disappointed because I know you were traveling yesterday and I was hoping that maybe you had, why would you have missed it? You don't miss anything, but I was hoping that maybe you had missed the story and I could surprise you with raccoon penis. Yeah, no, I really saw it this morning. Um, yeah. [1:00:25] So you got my initial reaction was, oh, look, dessert. Anyway, he didn't have a lot of good answers about everything else that he's fucked up as health and human services secretary. Like, why did you cancel pro vaccine messaging public service announcements in the middle of a measles outbreak? And then he tried to say, well. [1:00:43] We're doing better than other countries. And then the representative pointed out, no, we're actually not. The incidence of measles has risen here in the last two years faster than anywhere else on Earth. So thank you, RFK Jr., for all that you're doing for health. But I hope you're studying hard. [1:01:01] I don't know. Sorry. Look, look. I didn't even try to. I mean, look, he has an agenda. His agenda is a dead raccoon penis in every pot. [1:01:13] bear cub in the park after a botched attempt to skin it. That's one. Decapitated the whale carcass. [1:01:21] cutting off the raccoon penis. [1:01:23] while thinking to himself, boy, have my family members turned out pretty weird.

[1:01:27] Yeah, those are all plot points in a Netflix serial killer documentary. Yeah, well, there you go. All right, when we come back, poor Peggy Flanagan. [1:01:38] What an intro. But when we come back, Tommy talks to Lieutenant Governor of Minnesota, Peggy Flanagan. [1:01:53] Pod Save America is brought to you by Quince. This time of year might make you rethink what's in your closet. You want to move away from clutter and toward high quality pieces you can actually live in. That's why you should check out Quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense too. [1:02:23] soft enough that you'll actually want to wear it all day. Nice. The best part is that their prices are 50 to 60% less than similar brands. How? Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. Everything is designed to last and make getting dressed easy. [1:02:38] Um, [1:02:39] Let's see. Love the sweaters. Love the pants. Yep. Also has some t-shirts from there. Oh, yeah. Great sweatshirts. They're all super comfy. They look great. And they last a long time, too, which is great. Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com slash crooked for free shipping and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Go to quince.com slash crooked for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash crooked.

[1:03:05] Looking for more than just a job? Brightview Senior Living is opening Brightview North Facts in Fairfax, Virginia. And we're hiring across all departments, from dining and caregiving to maintenance, sales and leadership. This is your chance to be part of something from the very beginning. At Brightview North Facts, you'll find a team that supports you, values you, and a career that can grow with you. Text BVJOBS to [redacted phone] or visit careers.brightviewseniorliving.com to apply. [1:03:35] Thank you. [1:03:38] My guest today is Lieutenant Governor of Minnesota and running to fill Senator Tina Smith's U.S. Senate seat Peggy Flanagan, great to meet you. Peggy Flanagan: Thanks so much for having me. Great to be here. So you're running in a primary. We've extended an invitation to your opponent, Representative Craig. [1:03:52] double back listeners when that happens um so i want to start with some like national stuff some senate specific stuff and then dig into some minnesota focused questions if that's cool um [1:04:03] a lot of [1:04:04] grassroots voters, a lot of Democrats feel like Democrats in Congress are not fighting hard enough against the Trump administration. I'm sure you hear this all the time. The pushback you hear from the House side is like, hey, we have no power. I think the senators would probably say, you know, we just shut down the government for like, [1:04:21] 40 plus days last year. DHS is shut down now. Maybe that's a lot of fighting back in their book. Where do you stand on this debate? Are they fighting hard enough? Well, I think, you know, what I'm hearing from folks as we're traveling across the state is that people are sick and tired of Democrats fighting from a defensive crouch or governing by sternly worded letter is something we hear a lot about. And I think, you know, fighting back can take on a lot of different tactics.

[1:04:51] Democrats leading on the shutdown really mattered, right, especially after what we saw in in the state of Minnesota with ICE, which I'm sure we'll talk about a little bit more. [1:05:21] the streets. I think that also matters, right? We had over 50,000 people [1:05:27] marching in downtown Minneapolis to show solidarity, but also to speak up. So there are lots of tools in our toolbox, but... [1:05:37] I just think people want to know that you're there for them, that you're fighting for them. And especially right now, when we see the influence of corporate PAC money, billionaires who have probably the biggest seat at the table in our politics, I think regular folks just want to be heard and want to know that when Dems come back into power, they are going to throw down on behalf of the American people. [1:06:07] lots of Minnesota and how inspiring the response was. But a couple more things. So, you know, another flashpoint I think you hear with the left and center, I mean, a lot of places is whether Chuck Schumer should continue to be the leader of the Democrats, whether Senate minority leader or hopefully Senate majority leader. Do you support Schumer's keeping that job? I'll say this. I feel the same way about Chuck Schumer that he feels about me. Uncommitted. What does uncommitted mean? I've heard you say that before.

[1:06:37] I think we should have a vote. [1:06:40] Is this Minnesota nice saying no? This is Minnesota nice, but it's saying I think we need a progressive champion to lead the Senate Democrats. And I think there's an example of a lot of leaders who are part of the group called the Fight Club. I'm sure you've heard of this group, right? The number one rule of Fight Club is that we're not supposed to talk about it, but right, we're going to talk about it. [1:07:10] Marky Merkley and, uh, [1:07:13] This group and Van Hollen and this group of folks, I think, are pushing back and are not part of the Democratic establishment and are really looking for those progressive fighters. I think that's what we need. And I think that's what we're hearing from folks all across the country who are ready for more. And, you know, so am I. It's interesting to hear you say, you know, focus on sort of the policy argument, because I think the other argument you hear is generational. [1:07:43] And there's, I think, ongoing frustration that we had this long... [1:07:48] sort of tortured discussion about Joe Biden's age and voters, I think, pretty resoundingly told us he was too old for another term. And yet the lessons learned have not translated to the Senate. Do you think there should be an age limit or term limits for the Senate? Yeah. [1:08:05] I think what we need are progressive fighters. And I think there are folks of all different ages who can take on that role. But what I'll also say is, you know, we don't have enough moms with kids under the age of 18 serving in the Senate. There's only four. And boy, can you tell by the kind of, you know, lack of policies that have to do with, you know, paid family medical leave, child care.

[1:08:35] making sure that, you know, kids have access to health insurance. They don't know who Miss Rachel is. They don't know who Miss Rachel is. That matters. Absolutely. I mean, and if you haven't been moved by an episode of Bluey, what are you doing serving in the Senate? No, I, but I think, I think that that matters that our elected officials accurately reflect the communities they seek to represent. Right. And so I think it matters that we have more young people who are serving in the [1:09:05] But I think it matters that, you know, we can elect the first Native American woman ever to serve in the U.S. Senate. That's healthy for democracy and it's good. And I think now as we're seeing these primary races across the country, you know, [1:09:20] that's good for us. It is good for the party. It's good for democracy overall. And I [1:09:27] Having people feel excited and engaged about politics, that's something we should all want right now, especially as we've got Donald Trump in the White House. [1:09:38] Every day. I mean, great. Yeah. Just yes. Just doing really. And this is my Minnesotan coming out. Really interesting things. Right. Interesting. Donald. Uh huh. Crypto is interesting. Yeah, that's right. I mean, and I just think it's it's an exciting time for our party. [1:09:59] If we choose to lean into that excitement and not get caught up with the status quo, we are seeing it everywhere. The people are demanding more. They want more. They want folks who understand what it's like to try to stretch 20 bucks through the end of the month. And frankly, I think if we had more people in the Senate who knew what that was like, we wouldn't have passed this big, ugly bill.

[1:10:29] And I think we can reinvigorate the U.S. Senate and the Democrats who serve there. We could certainly use some invigoration. Yes. It doesn't work there. After Watergate, after Nixon, there was a wave of government reform. It was we didn't just, you know, that scandal didn't just take down the president, but it led to this fundamental reshaping of American politics because people woke up and said, oh, that was bad. Let's not do that again. [1:10:59] look like that the Senate should be hopefully working on right now? We'll say a couple of things. I think there are too many folks who think, oh, once Trump's out of office, somehow everything will be OK. And learn that one the hard way. Right. Absolutely. And we'll go back to, you know, sunshine and rainbows. We have to be, I think, very clear about what the consequences need to be for Donald Trump and for folks in his [1:11:29] charges, what we have been through in Minnesota, there has to be some kind of reckoning. We also have seen as Donald Trump, you know, one of his first moves once he got back into office was getting rid of 17 inspectors general, right, and the very people who police fraud, he has enriched

[1:11:59] do is make sure that you can't get rich off of serving, uh, in public office. You're not going to bet on whether we're going to depose dictators in Venezuela and stuff. I mean, it's not my thing. I think, uh, you know, Kelsey is, uh, [1:12:13] another interesting thing that exists and we shouldn't be we shouldn't be betting on our our politics. No. But I would say, you know, holding these folks accountable, making sure that you can't enrich yourself. And then I think we have to look at reforms around the Supreme Court as well and just. [1:12:33] People have to trust the government again. And when I think about the opportunity to get in there, I think we will take back the House. I think we have a real opportunity to take back the Senate. And then everyone has to be really clear what their job is. Right. What you got to be in role. So what is this senator working on? What is this senator working on? How are we building a base of support for the reforms, for the policies that we want to that we want to move? [1:13:03] president in there, God willing, in 2028, thanks for knocking on wood, that we are then ready to go and rebuild. [1:13:13] What we watched Elon Musk and his doge bros do to this government, we have to rebuild. And we have to do so with a lot of intention. So it is pushing for the policies that Americans want to be able to afford their lives and making sure that this authoritarianism that is just galloped into the White House and into Washington can never happen again. Yeah.

[1:13:43] Do you think Democrats should get rid of the filibuster? [1:13:45] Oh, this is the tricky one, right? Because right now it's pretty helpful. But yes, I do. Because there are so many things that have gotten, you know, [1:13:54] stopped, right? Good stuff, right? And I don't want Kyrsten Sinema or Joe Manchin-esque people to be able to stop progress because they're bought and paid for by big corporations, right? Mitch McConnell. Yeah. What about the party party? [1:14:12] saying, [1:14:13] As a party, we're not going to take corporate PAC money. We're not going to take lobbyist money. Is that naive? Is that dooming ourselves to being outspent in every election? Like what kind of campaign finance reforms do you think are appropriate? I mean, I think the fact that. [1:14:29] corporate PACs and billionaires are running the show in Washington is a fantastic reason why we shouldn't take that money. I mean, it's, [1:14:40] For me personally, I have made that decision in my campaign, and I think it really matters. It mattered a lot for Obama in 07, I think. Yeah. It really did. It was a differentiator. Well, because people get it, right? People understand it. Let me tell you. [1:14:58] I knew the corporations had a lot of power in Washington. It wasn't until I ran for Senate that I actually understood just how much. And so... What did you learn in that process that kind of gave you that new window? I mean, it's just looking at...

[1:15:17] How folks are like, oh, well, that's too much. Right. Or when you say like, I'm for Medicare for all. Right. People are like, oh, but there's so many folks in the health insurance industry. And there are people. [1:15:34] a librarian in Canby, Minnesota, who's paying a $16,000 deductible and just paid five bucks, or sorry, 500 bucks for a five minute med check, right? Like that's, that's real. And so I just think that this is a route of why we are where we are, that big corporations, billionaires have [1:16:04] that I think this is the biggest contrast between myself and my primary opponent, Congresswoman Craig. This is where, you know, big oil, crypto, big pharma, APAC is, you know, they're all going to come in to this race. And for me, I can sleep at night because I'm not beholden to anybody but Minnesotans and I have integrity. [1:16:34] who are fighting to protect the environment, not taking money from big oil. We should be the folks who are anti-war, right? Not... [1:16:45] snuggling up, you know, to...

[1:16:48] AIPAC, who is a-okay with this war on Iran and what we see happening in Lebanon and Gaza, and the majority of Americans oppose it. And, you know, when we see... [1:17:00] these big corporations and corporate interests who are keeping people who are making incredibly low wage jobs who are struggling. Democrats should be the folks who are fighting against that, not saying, please contribute to our campaigns, because I think, you know, it's Tommy, what you just said, like people get it. [1:17:30] and be like, but also, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, if you could pay for my campaign, that would be great. People are so much smarter than that. And so that, you know, and I think that's coming for us, right? What we saw in the state of Illinois in their primary that they just had, my friend and my sister, fellow lieutenant governor, Julianna Stratton, crypto spent $10 million in that race. AIPAC spent millions, right? And, you know, [1:17:59] I know that they're going to come into Minnesota, too. But what I also know is that people are starting to understand why this matters. Right. I've been endorsed by and Citizens United in this race. And I think the best way to get big money out of our politics is to demonstrate that you can run powerful grassroots campaigns that are about the many and not the money. And you can still win.

[1:18:25] You mentioned APAC and the big fight in the Democratic Party about U.S. support for Israel. Does that lead you to feel like we should be cutting off military aid to Israel? For example, I know Bernie Sanders has a bunch of votes this week to try to cut off specific funding of weapons systems. Where do you land on that? Yeah, so if I was in the Senate right now, I'd be joining Senator Sanders in voting in support of those resolutions. [1:18:55] offensive weapon sales to Israel, I was asked how I would have voted for that. And I said, how I would have voted on it. And I said, I would have voted alongside my Senator Tina Smith and Senator Amy Klobuchar in support of it, because the same values that I have behind making sure that kids can eat breakfast and lunch at school, right, for free, those are the same values [1:19:25] the suffering that we have seen is, uh, [1:19:29] It's too much. Yeah, it's off the charts. Yeah, if there's tools in our toolbox that we can use, we should use them. Agreed on that point. Let's turn to Minnesota. So some of Minnesota's neighbors... [1:19:40] Iowa and Wisconsin have drifted, [1:19:44] right. Iowa, pretty far right in the Trump era. Minnesota has not. [1:19:49] I mean, I think we really care about each other. And, you know, we come from the state of Senator Paul Wallstone and everybody knows, right, the bumper sticker, we all do better when we all do better, which is, you know, a famous quote from Paul.

[1:20:08] And I think people of... [1:20:10] All parties believe that in our state. We really care about fairness and looking out for our neighbor. And I think that's what you saw on display in the response to Operation Metro Surge. But I really think that that's what it's about, that folks just think you should be able to live a good life, you know, make your own choices and just feel successful. [1:20:40] You mentioned Trump and his cronies have spent a lot of time attacking Minnesota. A shocking amount of time, right? Tim Walz gets targeted all the time. ICE and CBP descended on the state. There's this obsessive focus on Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, on the Somali community, allegations of fraud. Did it surprise you that Minnesota had the eye of Sauron trained on it like this? And what has the impact of those attacks been on people who just live there? [1:21:10] lives. So I'd say a couple things. One, uh, [1:21:14] You know, fraud of any kind is completely unacceptable. Right. And in Minnesota, if you commit fraud, you're going to be prosecuted for it. [1:21:23] But I also want to say that if this was really about fraud from the Trump administration, they would have said 3000 forensic accountants and, you know, 3000.

[1:21:41] that this has had on our state. I know that, you know, your listeners or your viewers, [1:21:47] probably watched the news and saw it and were horrified. But what people need to know is that it was so much worse in person. [1:21:57] Um, [1:21:59] The trauma, the violence, the chaos, the [1:22:03] the things that people experienced, [1:22:07] I guess I have a couple stories that I'd just like to share with you. Like my little auntie, who is in her 70s, [1:22:16] was forced off the road by ICE. They surrounded her vehicle. And she's this cute little grandma. She rolled down her window. And she's like, hey, fellas, how can I help you? Right? And they said, where are you going? And, you know, she had a... [1:22:33] She had a program. She was like, I literally was just leaving a funeral. You know, this is, this is the program from the funeral. And she's like, [1:22:43] Am I free to go? And they're like, yeah, go ahead. But she has... [1:22:48] bumper sticker on her car that says Black Lives Matter. And she's like, I'm pretty sure that was targeted. What authority did they have to pull someone over in the first place? That's crazy. Right? And this happened... [1:22:57] all over the state, right? We go to, I'm Catholic, so it's been a weird week for Catholics, but I have to tell you, I've never been more proud to be Catholic in my entire life. It is weird that your suitcase depicts you as Jesus. I know. Your staff thought it was normal. No, I'm a doctor. Yeah, I'm a doctor. Have you heard the theory that he thought, he was told to say it was doctored?

[1:23:23] But then he said, I'm a doctor. [1:23:24] I believe that theory. I buy it. I thought on Twitter, but I buy it. Absolutely. I think that's probably true. Run off the road. [1:23:39] stopped in the street simply because of the color of their skin. I'm Ojibwe. I'm Native American. We have a large urban Native population. And there were a lot of Native folks who are literally wearing their tribal IDs around their neck. [1:23:56] I mean, it's outrageous. And the children, right, they... [1:24:01] Liam? [1:24:02] Liam Conejo Ramos that [1:24:06] The Trump administration, right, detained. [1:24:08] In Texas, they're now back, but they're now being targeted aggressively for deportation. [1:24:17] I talked to a second grade teacher who said, [1:24:20] the biggest thing I have to figure out every day is... [1:24:24] you know, how I manage through [1:24:26] children who are crying at different times throughout class. [1:24:30] Like, [1:24:32] It's horrific. And we go to a parish in North Minneapolis. [1:24:38] And we've got a lot of mixed status families there. [1:24:43] And church was so empty. [1:24:46] And on Christmas Eve, [1:24:50] There may be 40 people. [1:24:52] It's usually hard to get a seat, right? And so, you know, throughout the occupation, we fed over 350 families. That work continues. People are afraid to leave their homes. They've been impacted financially in ways that I don't know if they'll ever recover.

[1:25:15] you know, and, [1:25:16] What I can't get over is [1:25:19] is that there are going to be some children in our state [1:25:22] who have an ACE score, an Adverse Childhood Experience score, simply because there were federal agents [1:25:31] in their neighborhood. [1:25:33] Um, [1:25:34] I don't have another word for it, but... [1:25:38] I am running to avenge Minnesota and bring justice for our people. [1:25:46] The drawdown has occurred. ICE still has a presence. They're more insidious now. But this certainly didn't just focus on the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul. We were traveling across the state. [1:26:00] We had a statewide tour and at multiple events. [1:26:05] people's phones went off because they were all right. Part of a group that was doing rapid response where ice was at a daycare center where they were at a construction site or a restaurant and, [1:26:20] And so I think people are... [1:26:23] starting to try to get back to normal. But this has changed. This has changed us. Um, [1:26:31] And on Palm Sunday. [1:26:34] Thank you. [1:26:35] It was packed. [1:26:37] And there were kids crying and laughing and toys dropping on the floor. And it was like a lot of chaos. And it was totally beautiful.

[1:26:49] Yeah, another good kid cast. Yeah, like it just... [1:26:54] So folks are coming back, but this is... [1:26:57] The financial impact of this on our state, the emotional impact, the impact on mental health, the economy. [1:27:09] It is unforgivable. And so what the federal government laid at our doorstep, they have to repair and heal and restore. You know, you think you spoke incredibly powerfully to the impossible to quantify emotional impact. I mean, for every story like Liam, there's other stories we all read of like kids who were just sick. [1:27:30] Didn't go to school for three months hiding in their houses, you know, and like the How we ever fix that, you know, like how we ever be able to help those kids readjust and not be afraid You also mentioned the just pure economic impact me I read the businesses in Minneapolis and st. Paul were reporting three hundred million dollars in losses um [1:27:51] So how how do they recover from that or how are they how are you guys able to help them recover from that? [1:27:57] You know, I governed under COVID. [1:28:04] We at least had a... [1:28:06] more of a partnership than an adversary and had resources. [1:28:13] now, right? It's the folks who caused this chaos and violence and

[1:28:21] killed two Minnesotans, right, who are supposed to be the ones who are our partners in recovery. Um, [1:28:29] Um, [1:28:29] I will tell you that we have watched Minnesotans step up [1:28:34] in a major way. Mutual aid, [1:28:40] people who are standing outside of daycares and schools, [1:28:45] you know, [1:28:47] In their neighborhoods, there's literally people who stand outside of our parish every Sunday just to make sure that we can worship safely. [1:28:55] The financial contributions have been incredible. Philanthropy has responded, but it's not enough. And at the state level, you know, there's, there are some things that we can do. I am hopeful that there will be some rental assistance that we'll be able to, to get past this legislative session. But we have divided government or a tie in our, in our house. And so that will be difficult, but, you know, [1:29:21] The recovery is going to be long. And I think this, again, is one of the reasons why, uh, [1:29:27] You know, we need folks in Congress and Senate to understand the need for [1:29:35] investment in this recovery. We can start by clawing back the $75 billion that was given to ICE to terrorize Minnesotans. It's a good place to start. I like that idea. I mean, as you know better than I do, Minnesota has a reputation, a well-earned one, for being a generous

[1:29:52] place to live because of all the social services. And as I mentioned now, I mean, the Minnesotans are facing all these accusations of fraud, maybe up to a billion dollars worth of fraud. Republicans are using. [1:30:04] those allegations, those instances to try to undercut the entire concept of a welfare state, right? To suggest that all governments are corrupt and we're wasting your money. And why don't we just give a big tax cut to everybody, hint the billionaires and claw it all back, right? How do you think we can fight back? [1:30:21] on those kind of attacks and sort of like [1:30:23] the kind of governance that you and I believe in. For sure. Well, I'd say a couple of things. One, you know, like I said, the fraud is completely unacceptable. I'm a recovering executive director and will tell you of Children's Defense Fund, Minnesota. So people... [1:30:42] stealing money from the most vulnerable folks in our state. [1:30:46] Makes me pretty angry. And so, you know, the governor and the legislature have put in place policies to stop fraud, to prevent fraud. And I still have hope that this legislative session, there'll be more that's able to get done. Republicans have voted down several measures, right, that would be helpful when it came to combating fraud. [1:31:16] Better angels like J.D. Vance? Yeah. You want him to come? Our C.L.O.G.ian, right? J.D. Vance.

[1:31:25] You mentioned going to church a few times. [1:31:27] What do you think of J.D. Vance saying the Pope shouldn't weigh in on war? If the Pope was mad at me. [1:31:35] and this Pope specifically, I would die. And if my own priest was mad at me, I would feel just, or disappointed in me. That would be the worst. But if the Pope was mad at me, I would just be like, and pack it in. I'd be like, that's it. I got to go. Yeah. I mean, we've all accused, I think, J.D. Vance of sort of selling his political soul to people. [1:32:01] get into Donald Trump's graces and do anything for power, but he's really going down here. But I think like, speaking of JD Vance, of someone who grew up on the margins and has completely had his brain sucked out and forgotten where he comes from, right? This for me, I think is also really important for us to talk about why these programs matter, right? I'm a kid who moved to the community of St. Louis Park where I still live with my family. [1:32:31] voucher. And that's how she did it. That's how we paid the rent. SNAP, which back in the day, we called food stamps, was how we kept food on the table. I was that kid with a different colored lunch ticket. And Medicaid, or what's known as medical assistance in Minnesota, was what kept me alive. I missed a lot of school. I was sometimes in the hospital more than I was out in elementary school. And so I am alive because of those programs. And when I think about, you know, my mom,

[1:33:00] She worked so hard and she went back to school and, [1:33:05] and was able to do so because of the child care assistance program. She went back to school. She got her certificate in phlebotomy. She's a professional vampire, as we like to say. And I remember when she walked across the stage, [1:33:19] And she got her diploma. She was in like a bright blue cap and gown. And it felt like I was walking across that stage. [1:33:27] All of those investments helped to lift my family towards the middle class. And now I get to pay that forward and pay it back in service. [1:33:37] That's what we have to talk about, right? [1:33:40] And for... [1:33:42] Children. [1:33:44] our seniors. [1:33:47] people who don't make enough money to qualify, right, for, you know, [1:33:53] or get healthcare through their employer. [1:33:56] we can't forget about people. And, [1:34:00] That, I think, is... [1:34:03] what I hope still makes us Minnesotans and still makes us Americans is that we care about each other and that we, [1:34:11] We're going to wrap our arms around you when you need help. [1:34:15] And then... [1:34:17] you're going to pay that back. [1:34:21] I think is one of the things that's just completely missing from this conversation. Just hearing you talk, I hear I can tell you worked for Paul Wellstone. I mean, odds are you did if you're in Minnesota politics, right? For those who don't know, Paul Wellstone was, I mean, truly one of the more most inspiring people in political life when I was sort of like coming up in politics and working on the Hill, I desperately wanted to work for him. He was killed tragically. Can you just talk about Paul Wellstone?

[1:34:47] what he meant to you, like kind of how he shaped your career in the course of Minnesota politics. [1:34:52] I mean... [1:34:54] I exist. [1:34:55] Because of Paul Wallstone. [1:34:57] um, [1:34:59] Thank you. [1:35:01] I was literally driving past the Wellstone for Senate office in 2002, my senior year of college at the University of Minnesota. And I was like, you know what? I like Paul Wellstone. Like, I'm just going to stop. [1:35:14] Really? He just popped in? He just popped in. And a guy named, now I know, is my friend Chris, was like, hey, are you here to volunteer? And I was like, [1:35:21] Oh, I guess. Sure. Okay. And I stuffed envelopes, which isn't really a thing we do anymore. But yeah, I stuffed envelopes for two hours with like complete strangers. And I was like, this is amazing. And I went back. [1:35:37] every single day. And so I started off doing, you know, tasks that just needed to be done and then, um, ended up, uh, leading our urban native, uh, organizing work, which, you know, as you know, is how things happen on campaigns, right? Suddenly you're running the thing. Exactly. Here's more work. That's right. And so, um, [1:35:59] You know, I was so moved by that experience and really just like seeing real people and who and everybody felt like that's our guy. Right. Paul's our guy. He's our senator. If it's the native community, the Somali community, folks up on the Iron Range, like everybody claimed him.

[1:36:20] Um, [1:36:22] And it was because... [1:36:24] He spent time with people. [1:36:27] all over the state. [1:36:29] And really like listen to them and met them and cared for them. And that is, you know, when we talk about politics, the Wellstone way, right? That's what it's about. It's about making sure that you're meeting people where you're at, they're at, and that the policies that you push for are directly informed. [1:36:47] by the people who are most impacted. And [1:36:50] I remember this moment. [1:36:52] When [1:36:55] After he had died... [1:36:57] And, uh... [1:36:58] Thank you. [1:37:00] Walter Mondale, um, [1:37:02] former vice president [1:37:05] was running in his place. And so we had to hand make a bunch of signs. And I'd mark her all over my arm and it was like hot in the back room. And it was, you know, and I looked around the room and it was full of people. [1:37:20] from all different walks of life. And I was like, oh, this. [1:37:25] This is what I'm supposed to do. [1:37:27] And I didn't think at the time... [1:37:29] at all that it meant run for political office. I just thought it meant like I'm going to be part of campaigns and organizing work. [1:37:39] Thank you. [1:37:39] And then I was taken under the wing of a lot of Wallstone campaign folks. [1:37:46] and worked at Wellstone Action for almost a decade afterwards, training people, tens of thousands of people across the country.

[1:37:53] to run for political office. That's great. If people want to have their own Wellstone moment working for you, where do they go? How can they do it? Sure. Folks can visit PeggyFlanagan.com. We'd love to have you on Team Peggy. It's going to take all of us. [1:38:07] Well, thank you for coming in. It's great to talk to you. Thanks so much. [1:38:15] That's our show for today. Thanks to Peggy Flanagan for coming on. Dan will be back in the feed on Sunday with a conversation with David Pakman. Have a good weekend, everybody. Bye, everyone. [1:38:26] If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to crooked.com slash friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. [1:38:35] Also, please consider leaving us a review. That helps boost this episode and everything we do here at Crooked. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farrah Safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reed Churlin is our executive editor. [1:38:50] Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. [1:39:01] Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcoat, Mia Kelman, Carol Pellaviv, David Tolles, and Ryan Young. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [1:39:19] . [1:39:23] you

[1:39:24] Looking for more than just a job? Brightview Senior Living is opening Brightview North Facts in Fairfax, Virginia. And we're hiring across all departments, from dining and caregiving to maintenance, sales and leadership. This is your chance to be part of something from the very beginning. At Brightview North Facts, you'll find a team that supports you, values you, and a career that can grow with you. Text BVJOBS to [redacted phone] or visit careers.brightviewseniorliving.com to apply. [1:39:54] Thank you.