NBA Lottery Karma Rankings, Jaylen’s Future, and a Blistering Wolves-Spurs Series With Nick Wright

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[01:32] We're going to talk about the San Antonio, Minnesota series. We're going to talk about my Celtics series. [01:37] And what the hell happened? And what's happening with Jalen Brown? Does he want to be a Celtic? [01:42] We're going to talk about... [01:44] LeBron? [01:45] Are we evaluating him correctly in the ringer? Nick was... [01:49] upset that we probably weren't. [01:51] A lot on the San Antonio, Minnesota series, which we both feel like something really crazy might be happening there. And then last but not least, I do this every year. [01:59] Usually we do it on a Sunday, but the latter is on a Sunday this year. Zach Lowe is going to be at it. [02:04] So instead we're doing the lottery karma rankings today. And that was the last part of this podcast. [02:10] Trying to figure out, [02:11] Who should win the NBA lottery just from a karma standpoint? So that is all coming up next. [02:18] Take a break and then [02:19] ProJet! [02:21] The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. [02:24] It's been a wild playoff run. Not over yet. Fando wants to bring you closer. [02:27] to the court to make all of that action. [02:30] come to life for you. [02:32] the basketball fan. Vandal, the best place to bet the team's players' plays during NBA postseason, build a same-game parlay for a shot at a bigger [02:40] pad or [02:42] Try live betting. [02:43] and jump into the action. [02:45] Right after tip-off, whatever you want. That's the whole point of live betting. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app. [02:51] Right now. [02:52] And play your game. [02:53] 21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. If you have a problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call [redacted phone] or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut.

[03:29] All right, we're recording with Nick Wright about an hour or so after you did first [03:34] things first. I like when you're a little groggy. I feel like I have an advantage. [03:38] You know, you've basically played a whole game. Now you're doing a doubleheader. This is good for me. [03:43] Correct, which is why I have a light rule that if I'm potting after 6 p.m. Eastern, I drink red wine while I'm doing it. But I really... [03:55] I need to be, have, you know, all my sensibilities, you know, [03:59] to be able to combat whatever stuff you throw at me. So I have a big glass of pink lemonade. [04:05] a backup bottle of water, I'm going straight sober, [04:09] Because I don't know how you're, I don't really know the state you're in. This is your, the Celtics who I picked to win the title. [04:17] And I know now you're like, ah, they were never going to win the title. You thought they could maybe win the title. [04:23] They're out. And so I don't know how you're doing. [04:25] Terrible. [04:26] yeah yeah excited you i mean the lakers are still playing the celtics are at home it's a catastrophe i woke up at four in the morning and i was just lying in bed staring at the ceiling and i just woke up i went for a power walk at like 7 30 in the morning was walking around talking to my dad [04:46] two days after the game, still furious at everybody. My dad, this is the maddest he's ever been after a series. [04:52] I mean, Ron Harper Jr. not going to save the season, it turns out. [04:58] I'm here's the thing I think I'm most stunned by.

[05:03] You could argue of every contender in NBA history. [05:15] There was not one better prepared. [05:19] for, oh shit, [05:21] our best players out for game seven, what are we going to do? Then this year's Celtics, who had 65 games of that scenario. [05:30] So I didn't understand that from Missoula's starting lineup. [05:34] And, you know, [05:35] How do you grade... [05:39] Four years of Missoula. [05:41] Year two, crush everyone en route to a championship. [05:45] And every other year... [05:47] horrifying defeat as huge favorite. Yeah, did you see the numbers? It's like... [05:52] Plus 500, plus 900, and plus 1,000, I think, were the three. Something like that. [05:57] Yeah, I mean, so we... [05:59] It's real. It's. And so I don't. [06:02] You know, and... [06:03] And then and you and you did a very I feel like you don't want them to break up Tatum and Brown, but you acknowledging that it might happen really helped the conversation get going. So it was journalistically, I respect it, even though it caused pain for you. But I think Jalen Brown, I think Jalen Brown. [06:23] I think there is a very interesting trade where Atlanta – [06:27] Sends a bunch of stuff, including Milwaukee's own pick, back to Milwaukee.

[06:33] Atlanta gets Jalen Brown, who would fit with them perfectly, and Giannis goes to Boston. That probably makes more sense than Giannis for Jalen Brown straight up, because why would Milwaukee necessarily want to do that? [06:45] that I think for Boston's a really interesting possibility here. [06:48] I have it in my notes. I mean, we hinted at it on the Sunday pod. As we were doing the Sunday pod, Zach and I, [06:55] Jalen was doing this Twitch stream. [06:59] It did not go over well with the fan base. I'll just say that. Uh, [07:03] Look, it's a free country. You do what you want. But over and over again, the theme from him this year has been, this has been the most fun season he's ever had. Time of my life. And even the Game 7 stuff of... [07:16] That was the pace we should have played all along. I liked the style we had that game. [07:22] And it's just very, it's becoming very clear to me. And I think to a lot of other people that he wants his own team. [07:28] And that's fine. But I think we can accommodate this. The trade you mentioned is the most logical trade because you left out one thing. They also have an almost $28 million trade exception. [07:39] So they can trade with Milwaukee. [07:41] And they can also take a contract back and actually save Milwaukee money because they got under the tax this year. [07:48] they can actually go over the tax, right? So they have Kuzma for one year left, like 22. You could just take that as part of the trade and absorb it. [07:55] Or you could take my, hey, did you not like the Miles Turner experiment? [08:00] We'll take them off your hands. He fits in that thing too. Who has the trade exception? Boston or Atlanta? Boston does. Okay. So Boston could basically get Giannis and a year of Kuzma.

[08:11] Send Jalen out. [08:13] send a pick to Milwaukee, and then Atlanta sends, you know, Reese Hachey, Dyson Daniels, and whatever that pick is. [08:21] Well, so, yeah, and the thing is, [08:23] It's super valuable in this regard because we'll see what that Atlanta pick, you know, we're going to talk lottery later. They have potentially a really good pick this year. [08:33] But since they have Milwaukee's 27 pick, [08:37] Milwaukee being able to get that back and be like, all right, next year we're going to suck. [08:42] and reap the benefits of it before we get going. And I think Jalen would be great with Atlanta. I think that would. Yeah, if you have him and Jalen Johnson, you bring McCollum back. Yeah, that's something. Here's, were you a wire guy? [08:56] Yeah, of course. So – [08:58] I used to do this thing when I had my column. [09:01] Back where my fingers were. It's about Durant and Westbrook. [09:04] about wondering if the Stringer-Avon thing was going to happen and bring them down. Yep. [09:09] Right. And I was writing about this and it really did not go over well with, I think, either of them or anyone in OKC. But the whole point was like the balcony scene in The Wire. [09:18] where Avon comes back, but Stringer's kind of been running the show and they start side-eyeing each other a little bit. [09:25] My fear with the Celtics season was that they were... [09:28] It was a little like the wire thing where Stringer was running the show. In this case, Jalen. [09:34] Tatum comes back like Avon. It's like, okay, guys, we're a partnership again. But Stringer got a taste of running the show. [09:41] I didn't really fully think until that Twitch stream that this is kind of what Jalen wants. So I want them to stay together, but maybe this is just how the league goes. So I want to talk about the Twitch stream for a minute. Yeah.

[09:54] Okay, so, because I find Jalen to be... [09:57] Both of these guys, Tatum... [10:00] I find I found Tatum's. [10:03] Openness and vulnerability. [10:06] In his recovery process, one of the most remarkable and endearing things from a star athlete I've ever seen. Him flatly saying before the New York game, [10:16] Yeah, you know, I... [10:17] it's in my head, but I need to get over it. Like being back on the court, like I thought it was stunning his approach there. And I thought, [10:26] His recovery that obviously hit a wall here at the worst time, [10:30] was, [10:31] Remarkable. And then I would also add just him traveling with the team everywhere and being... [10:37] kind of needing to be on the team and to be involved and watching them and being a part of it. Other guys just would disappear. He didn't. He's the blueprint now, I think, for how you deal with something like this. I agree. [10:48] Jalen, I find fascinating because I truly believe, [10:54] If all 450 NBA guys took an IQ test, I bet Jalen's in the top couple percent. Yeah. I think Jalen is a very thoughtful player. [11:04] And guy and a guy who's off court causes. [11:09] I think are really important and does like he does is a smart, thoughtful guy. [11:13] Well, and also the stuff he does in the city of Boston is the highest possible level of an athlete's relationship with the city. [11:20] That's another thing you have to think about if you're trading them. [11:23] Right. So all of that is like true.

[11:26] And here's what's also true. [11:28] He has some of the like wildest takes I've ever heard. Like the, the, the, [11:34] See you. [11:35] Part of the Twitch stream... [11:37] where it was... [11:38] Yeah. [11:39] There was basically a conspiracy against me from the league because I've criticized the refs. [11:45] Like, are you serious? Yeah. And where he's like, yeah, the refs confirmed it to me because before the game, they said we're watching. Like, buddy, that's not because you criticize him. It's because the other team's like, hey, he pushes off. So they're letting you know they flagged it to us. [11:58] Him, the... [12:00] The fact that he is that smart... [12:04] and yet thought it would go over well to be like, [12:07] Yeah, I know I've won a championship here and been to six conference finals. [12:11] But the year where my running mate was out with the torn Achilles and we flamed out a 3-1 lead in round one, best year ever. [12:19] Even if you feel that way, that ain't going to go over well. And then the decision to do it [12:26] And to do it with those three dudes just standing like none of it made any sense. [12:34] It was, and so I'm like, I know he's a smart, thoughtful guy, yet he's doing this. [12:39] which is... [12:40] Well, so, but you have to flip that around. [12:43] So why is he doing it? Correct. And he is a smart guy. [12:47] And I think that's... [12:48] My takeaway after that was... [12:51] He's probably okay with moving on. [12:54] And you forgot to mention with that thing about the best year of his career. This is my dad. I was...

[12:59] talking about my dad was like, [13:01] Angry for my dad, but then started talking about how the NHL ladder is tonight. And if the Maple Leafs fall to six, we get their pick. So he's moving on. But my dad was like, [13:11] We won the title two years ago. We were one of statistically the best teams of all time. [13:16] We ran through it. He was a huge part of it. He won finals MVP and conference finals MVP. [13:22] How is that not the most fun year of his career? [13:25] My dad was like, I just don't understand. I would love for him to explain how this was. And Jalen was saying, look, everyone counted us out. There was this adversity. [13:36] They were calling us the gap year Celtics and we banded together. [13:39] But the way the season ended, there's no way that could be your most fun year. [13:43] Correct. And it'd be one thing if... [13:47] You know, if Scottie Pippen, [13:49] said, hey, 94 was the most gratifying year of my career. I was always number two. Jordan won every award always. And in 94, we overachieved. We had a great season. We won a round. [14:05] That'd be one thing. I think that would also be insane. [14:09] I well, it would I understand that that you probably wouldn't say it, but I would get it more than if Scotty had in ninety three one finals MVP and people thought he was awesome. Like it was. Well, how about let's say you get hit by a bus tomorrow. [14:26] And you're recovering for nine months. And as this is happening, the first things first has to revolve around Wilds. That's what I said. And all Wilds is doing is like, this is the most fun I've ever had doing TV. People would be like, whoa, he must hate Nick Wright. What's going on? That's the exact comp. I said, I do the podcast I do. I think Wilds would say that, by the way. So I do that podcast with my son.

[14:56] Right. [14:57] I was like, if I got... [14:59] you know, pneumonia and was in the hospital for two months. And you were in a yacht, you were in the Hantavirus, you were on a cruise ship. You were stuck on a cruise ship for six months. [15:08] And you're doing the pod without me. And I keep seeing these clips of you saying to the producers, boys, I don't think the show's ever been better than right now. [15:18] I'd be like, what the fuck? [15:19] Thank you, buddy. I'm trying to get back. [15:22] And so, but that's what it was. And you said throughout the year, [15:26] And I think it's right. He was like 10% too happy about how it was going. He almost needed like a crisis consultant to say, hey, [15:36] Every three weeks, don't forget to talk about your brother, JT, and how great it's going to be when he comes back. But you could feel it in the playoff series because they did slow down. [15:46] They did play a different style. I was talking about it on my podcast earlier. [15:50] Every one I did, I was like, I don't, [15:52] really like how they look. [15:54] I don't, something's different. We're not using the bench. And this is, [15:58] you know, some Missoula stuff. But like I said, on Sunday, I think they were using that Sixers series. [16:03] as a tinkering lab for the next series, not realizing Philly was going to blossom into this [16:09] I mean, Philly might not win another game in the playoffs. [16:11] This might have been a five-day Philly run that is just this crazy blip. [16:17] Yeah, I mean, game one was obviously a disaster for them. Yeah, you knew they were going to lose. [16:23] Right, that's the thing. I think they can win the series, but they were drawing dead to win that game after the 3-1 comeback. We'll see what they look like in game two. They also might be, if Embiid's healthy, that's a legit, really good top four guys. Like Paul George playing the way he is, Embiid, Maxie, and Edgecombe. That's legit. They don't have a bench, but they have those guys. Here's my question for you on Boston before we get to the stuff you wanted to get to.

[16:50] Well, I have a Giannis thing we should talk about, too. Okay, let's do it. Because obviously the hot button thing is the threes. All the threes, all the threes. Yeah. [17:00] Do you think... [17:03] That. [17:04] That is while when our pal Daryl, [17:07] did that against the Rockets and did it or did I'm sorry, did that against the Warriors with the Rockets. [17:13] What was underlying all that was... [17:16] We're the underdog. [17:18] We need we are not they have more talent. [17:21] we need to add more variance to the equation. [17:25] Are the Celtics... [17:27] underselling their position in the Eastern Conference, [17:31] by adding so much variance to these playoff series? Should that be the strategy if you make the finals against the Thunder, but not the strategy in round two last year against the Knicks or round one this year against the Sixers team without Embiid? It felt like an underdog NFL team that's like, we're onside kicking every time back in the day, or we're going for trick plays, but you're not the underdog. Right, or they're doing five wide receiver every down, [18:01] Whatever. [18:02] And so that's my question for Missoula. Can you throttle it down when you have the better team and then throttle it up when you do need to add the variance because you're overmatched? [18:15] And he's just never done it. [18:16] It's just all gas at all times. In 24, it made more sense because the players they had were so good. And they had Horford and Perzingis and Drew Holiday. Yep. Three guys who weren't on this team.

[18:27] It felt like they had to do it a little more with the math before Tatum got back. But when Tatum got back, I think they were trying to change it a little bit. [18:35] And yet the habits and the games didn't reflect it. They shot, in game two, they shot [18:39] 53s, I think. That was with no Embiid. [18:42] I was just, the coaching strategy stuff, and it's weird because, [18:46] I think Missoula is a really good coach. [18:49] I just think he kind of whiffed on the series, but I don't think it was, doesn't make me think they should fire him or anything. I just think he, I think he misread it. Cause I think the way to beat the Sixers, especially those first couple of games without him beat is like, [19:03] You just got to stop Maxie. [19:05] Like we have all these wings. You have... [19:07] Hugo, Yvonne Walsh, [19:10] Shireman, let's throw Derek White on him. Let's just not let him get going ever. And instead they're like, hey, I wonder if Vucevic can... [19:18] hop out in time on these threes. It's like, I can tell you right now, I can't. It's definitely not happening. So yeah, but your bigger question is, [19:27] Do they need to game the math like this? [19:30] We saw it in San Antonio, Minnesota last night. We're taping this on a Tuesday. [19:36] You know what's really nice sometimes are like 12 foot Julius Randall. [19:40] you know, bang into the body shots just to keep going. You know, it was really nice for Philly. [19:45] That can be just getting nice, easy eight to 10 footers. And you need a balance of that. And they lost the balance. And there is... [19:52] One last thing before we do your Giannis thing.

[19:58] Three is worth more than two. [20:00] But, [20:01] A one-point lead. The difference between trailing by one... [20:06] and leading by one in a playoff game, [20:09] is 10 miles wide. And the difference between leading by one and leading by two is, [20:14] is [20:15] six inches wide. Yeah. So when you, when you had six possessions in a row down one point in the fourth quarter of a game seven, [20:24] I don't give a shit if I can be up two. I just want to be up. I just want Philly to have the ball. I want Philly to be like, oh, no, did we blow it? [20:33] and I, [20:35] And it's what we have seen. And I just think teams have... [20:38] screwed that up and I think [20:41] I am, I'm stunned, Boston. [20:43] lost the way they did. And it does make you wonder, like you said, [20:47] that Giannis would fix a lot of this just by virtue of the fact he ain't shooting threes he is giving you that fast breaks yeah the problem I went back and I watched that fourth quarter again and [20:57] The shots were actually good shots. They were. [21:01] Like Jalen had a couple of two pointers that he just made all year. They were like 12 footers. Now the one where I forget who someone falls down. Yeah. He's shooting it right inside the foul line jumper. Yeah. Pritchard in the corner. I would bet my life on that shot. He missed it. So you can go to the summer and be like, oh, we, we usually make those shots, but they lost the series in game two and game five. [21:24] That was when their style went sideways. So the honest piece, which I did a whole thing about it.

[21:29] I don't know, maybe six weeks ago, talking about my fears for trading too much for him because I think he's going into his 14th season. [21:36] The track record. [21:38] is terrible. [21:39] It's basically like just even guys doing 23 and 10. There's like four of them ever. [21:45] Not to mention he's been injured in some capacity, I think every year for the [21:50] Five of the last six, something like that. [21:53] Since the title, at least three of the years major in a lot of miles. And then you think about big guys with you think about Dwight Howard, the second part of his career. You think about Shaq, the second part of his career. [22:04] Like big guys, they don't necessarily age in the greatest ways. [22:08] Um, [22:09] I don't think he's worth as much as [22:12] We thought a year and a half ago where it was like, oh, my God, you trade everything for that guy. I don't think that's the case. I don't know. But you would trade that way. [22:20] But you would trade Jalen Brown straight off. Yeah, I think that... My point is, I think the Celtics have enough to get him without gutting the entire... [22:28] whatever, because I think his value is dropped. Especially because here's the other thing. [22:34] The reason why I think the Celtics have enough to get him. [22:38] Because a Shingun... [22:40] package looks less attractive today. No question. How about Ivan Mobley looks less attractive than it did a year ago? He's the same guy he was a year ago. [22:49] Right. And so like who you're competing with, [22:53] And how that now... [22:55] Atlanta, [22:56] putting together the package we're discussing and cutting Boston out.

[23:00] I guess is interesting if they decide that's the move. That's going to be this Sunday. And we're talking lottery a little bit later. [23:07] Sunday, if Atlanta gets into that top four, they're out of the J. I'd rather have the top four pick than Jalen. I think it has more trade value. [23:14] Oh, interesting. Yeah, there's no question. Jalen's making $60 million a year. [23:19] And you could have Cam Boozer or I love Caleb Wilson. I actually have Caleb Wilson higher on my board. [23:25] I'll show you. Wow. I have a board. No, I don't. But my, my fake board, um, you have those guys for 10 million a year on a rookie contract versus paying Jalen 60. They'd be irresponsible to trade that pick for Jalen. I think the, [23:38] So, yeah, I mean, I feel like... [23:41] I feel like four is where it's interesting. I think top three... [23:45] definitively has like this intense value. [23:49] I don't. [23:51] No, you... [23:53] You're going to get on board with Caleb Wilson. [23:55] Okay. [23:56] All right. I think he's higher than four on multiple teams boards already. [24:01] No, but that's what I'm saying. It's I'm what I'm I agree with you on that. [24:05] I don't... [24:07] I'm not as in love with Boozer as everyone else. I think if the draft goes... Do you do the thing I do when you're watching the playoffs and you try to imagine the guy in the game you're watching? I was trying to imagine him in the San Antonio-Minnesota game last night. I was like, well, all right, I could see him guarding Randall. I mean, I know this is going to sound pretty dumb or obvious. You know who Cam Boozer reminds me of? [24:29] Guy named Carlos Boozer.

[24:31] His dad. Like, I thought he was a guy that is going to have a really solid 12-year NBA career. I think he's a better passer. [24:40] Sure, the game's changed, but my point is... [24:44] a guy who I think of all the top prospects, [24:48] Cam probably has the lowest... [24:50] Bust potential like the least likely to be a bust. Yeah, but I think he's also the least likely to be an MVP. [24:57] Like, and so that's why I'm not as high on it maybe as other guys. I would take Caleb second. [25:03] Now I've reserved the right to change my mind. So you'd go Devansa, Caleb, Peterson? Yeah. [25:09] Peterson's interest. I think Caleb's going to be unbelievable. That guy... [25:13] The same thing with Castle was similar. [25:17] where it's just like the guy's too competitive. He's too athletic and he's too competitive. Those guys always win. We see it. Doesn't matter what team it is, what draft. He's got that. I know what that is. And he's like a combination of like Sean Kemp and Chet. [25:33] I think he's going to be really special. So I'd be careful passing on him. But yeah, for the honest thing, [25:38] If I'm in Atlanta, now if I'm in 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, now I could really think about the Jalen thing. [25:44] Because you think like now I could have, because Jalen Johnson, as much as I like him and I voted for him all NBA. [25:50] He's kind of a 1B. I'm not sure he's a 1A. You can feel it in that playoff series. [25:55] It's not like, hey, clear out, guys. I got this. He's not. That's not the type of player he is. [26:00] No, he's...

[26:01] His... [26:04] Ceiling is like... [26:06] a better offensive Iguodala, right? Yeah. Is it like a better Jalen Williams? Like that's like, yes, a guy who can do everything is a winning player, you know, can definitely be a key part of a championship team. But if he's your best player, you've got no shot. No shot. Just no, no shot of winning a title. So what would you give up? How, how much would you, [26:30] How crazy would you get for Giannis? [26:32] If I'm what team? [26:34] Pick a team. I mean, I think for Boston... If you're Miami, would you gut everything you had and all your picks? I don't know what that achieves. I just wouldn't. I know, because I don't know what that achieves. Now, all of a sudden, Giannis is just in Milwaukee South. Like, I... [26:48] I mean, the Knicks would have been the one that were like, fuck it, we have a window, we got to do this. But the Knicks are going to make the finals, I think. I don't see anybody stopping. And also, I don't love any of the Knicks' trades. Right. Like, because they traded their picks. No, I... [27:05] If I were... [27:07] Detroit. [27:09] Thank you. [27:10] Would I give up? [27:12] I haven't done the trade machine on them. You're looking at Durin and all your picks, basically. [27:20] I give up Dern and all my picks. And I don't even know if Milwaukee, if that's changing my destiny. Right, if Milwaukee wants it. I think the easiest trade would be, the reason I think the Celtics are very live here is because it's so easy. Jalen and Giannis make the same amount of money. You have a third, if you need a third team, Atlanta makes a ton of sense. By the way, you can't cut out New Orleans. New Orleans might be like, we've always loved Jalen.

[27:50] that they're in it. Oh, yeah. They're capable of anything. [27:53] Um, yeah, they are. That's when we do this lottery karma thing. I've got something on that. Uh, yeah. [27:59] So I but no, I agree with you. [28:03] that, [28:04] Giannis is right now. [28:06] the fifth best player in the league, and oddly... Does not have the fifth trade value. [28:11] No, not at all. And I think there's teams that would maybe be like, we're good. [28:17] Like OKC, San Antonio, I don't think those teams would trade for him. [28:22] Well, let me hold on. So that's an interesting one. [28:27] I think they love their culture and their young guys. I don't think they – I think they'd obviously love to win the title this year, but I don't think they'd feel like the season was a failure if they lost. [28:37] And they're looking at the long runway, you know? Not the seasons of failure, but let's just say – [28:44] Minnesota beats them in six and Fox struggles and get the way he didn't game one throughout the series. Then Fox is the fall guy after the series. Yes. And added bonus. Yes. [28:56] Wimby... [28:59] gets pushed around a bit. [29:01] Like he did in game one. You mean when he shoots five for 18 and short arms every big shot down the stretch? Like somewhere like that? [29:10] And and gets, you know, physically pushed around like that's the thing for Wimby. [29:16] is, A, he was exhausted at the end of that game. Right, falling down all over the place. He's not used to playing big minutes, and...

[29:24] And so he's doing all that. B, Gobert is strong as hell. And Nasri and Julius Randall are strong as hell. And they were pushing him around. [29:32] I do wonder if San Antonio loses in bad fashion. [29:36] If they feel like we're, listen, we're not abandoning our future or our plan and we're keeping Harper, Castle and Wimby, but... [29:47] De'Aaron Fox. [29:48] another contract and a bunch of our picks. [29:52] For Giannis, so there isn't such a heavy offensive load on Wimby. And oh yeah, by the way, we just become... [30:00] you know, [30:01] a better defensive team than OKC like that. [30:05] That's something I would think about. I would. [30:08] I'd be more excited to [30:10] just play Carter Bryant more next year and ride this out. And, [30:15] Giannis feels like a panic move to me. Like Sam Presti to me, I always say, what would Sam Presti do? That is if Sam Presti would not do that. [30:24] He would probably look at the Harper situation because we all love Harper. We're going to have to expound on him. [30:30] But, [30:31] As like, okay, Fox, Fox was our training wheels. [30:36] Now we've got to send Fox off. [30:38] Let's get like another score in that spot. Maybe somebody with a little more size and think about it that way. We got to take a break. I want to talk about San Antonio, Minnesota. [30:47] And, uh, and I think you and I are feeling similar about this series. Perfect. [30:53] The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel giving you better payouts on same-game parlays, all NBA playoffs long.

[31:00] with more ways to build [31:02] And more value every time you play. You can stack your picks your way. Every game. Every matchup. [31:08] Every single moment. [31:09] From spreads to player points to threes and more, build it all into one same game parlay. [31:13] and go for bigger payouts. So if you're betting same game parlays this NBA postseason, [31:18] Bet them on FanDuel. More options, better payouts, all NBA playoffs long. [31:23] Head to Fando.com slash BS. [31:26] to get started. FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. [31:29] Play your game. [31:30] 21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fando.com. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call [redacted phone] or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. [31:44] This episode is brought to you by PayPal. [31:46] On the court, the pitch, the track... [31:48] Even the pool. Professional athletes show extraordinary physical flexibility. [31:53] For us normal people, we've got PayPal's flexible monthly payment plans. [31:58] Pay nothing at checkout, then enjoy a flexible monthly payment plan that works for you. [32:02] With no sign up, [32:04] or lay fees. [32:06] And it's available. [32:07] in millions of stores. Pay monthly. [32:10] with PayPal. Subject to approval, pay monthly consumer loans made by WebBank, available through PayPal, Inc., [32:18] NMLS 910457. Learn more at paypal.com slash paypal. [32:24] Pay monthly. [32:26] The Minnesota Timberwolves. [32:28] who were such giant underdogs for the series and for the finals that Nick Wright has a story for us from his trip to Vegas.

[32:36] Well, okay. So I went to Vegas to see the Benavidez fight. [32:43] Who is one of the scariest boxers we've had in the last 20 years. [32:47] unbelievable. He broke the guy's face on Saturday night. No, he destroyed it. He broke his orbital. The guy we fought, Zerto, had never been knocked down, much less knocked out, was a total warrior, and Benavidez just annihilated him. [33:01] And, you know, [33:02] By the way, I had Benavidez by knockout. Nice little ticket with my buddy Nick Shulman, the world's greatest poker player. No brainer. That's like an automatic bet. And... [33:14] But so I'm in Vegas Saturday morning. [33:18] And I'm on my way to the sports book or I'm at the sports book to bet Benavidez. [33:23] Yeah. [33:24] And I and I. [33:26] See the championship odds. [33:30] at [33:30] And I see the OKC minus 125, whatever they were at the time. The Lakers at 28 to 1. [33:39] and then 28 to one well that's the california people come and they bet the lakers [33:45] But that's still important context for what I'm about to say. Then I see beneath the Lakers. The Lakers who play OKC and Luka is injured. Yeah. 28 to 1. [33:55] Minnesota? [33:56] is 200 to 1 Saturday morning. [34:00] Orlando was 400 to one. [34:03] This was 12 hours after Orlando played the worst half of basketball in television history. There's never been a televised half of basketball worse than what they did. They're not even going to make. Can we count fictional shows for that?

[34:15] Four of 37 is worth anything. I think Saved by the Bell probably had a word. Yeah, Saved by the Bell or Fresh Prince. We need a fictional basketball. So I'm like, Orlando's 400 to 1. I'm like, what the... I was like... [34:29] So I'm staring at it. [34:32] I'm like, hold on. I watched, speaking of Giannis, Giannis suffered this same injury Anthony Edwards did. [34:39] He missed seven days, came back for game one of the finals, and averaged 35-13-6. [34:46] I was like, I think Anthony Edwards might come back. [34:50] sooner than people think, [34:52] I think that [34:53] There is just always this weird... [34:56] specter of injury looming over Wimby. I was like 200 to one. It has to be mentioned. He's seven foot seven. At any point, he can get hurt. Correct. I was like, it's 200 to one. [35:07] So... [35:08] I'm like, I had one in poker the night before. So I'm like, I think I'm going to put like a thousand bucks on this. Yeah. [35:14] I'm texting my buddies. [35:16] All of a sudden, a couple of my buddies want in, want in, and – [35:21] They're like, hey, see if they'll take [35:23] $10,000 on it. [35:26] And I'm like, okay, my guess is... This is an amazing story. [35:29] I was like, my guess is they won't, but... [35:32] I'm not sharp action. Like, you know what I mean? It's not like they're like, oh, this like I come to Vegas to play cards. They see my history. I went a little in poker. I spill it off playing blackjack at four in the morning. They don't think all of a sudden I have like, you know, I have inside info. Yeah. Vacuum blackjack when they're vacuuming under you. Yeah, exactly. Give me your money away. They see on their cards. They're like, my God, we've got this guy. $1,200 in packs of Newports over the last year.

[36:02] So, [36:04] So I walked to the window and I'm like, hey, [36:06] Oh, and the Derby. And people are betting the Derby. It's a couple hours before the Derby. Yeah. And I say, I'm like, hey. [36:13] I'd like $10,000 on the Timberwolves to win the title. [36:17] And the lady pulls it up and she's like, oh, [36:19] She's like, I'm going to have to get a manager. You should have said 9,000. I think once it gets to five figures, they get freaked out. No, well, what she said was, [36:28] Any ticket that'll pay out more than a million, [36:31] which 5,000 would have paid out a million because it's 201. Right. We have to get permission. Oh, Jesus. I'm like, okay. [36:39] So I'm just sitting there. People are betting the horses. Lady's like, I think they'll, she's like, I'm sure they'll take at least 5,000 of it. So I'm texting my buddies because we're going to split this ticket four ways. [36:48] Like, you know, here's what it is. [36:51] I don't know. Five minutes later, guy comes. [36:54] He's like, you're good. [36:55] They printed the ticket. [36:57] So I have... [36:58] In my possession... [37:00] On the Minnesota Timberwolves. This is unbelievable. 10,000. [37:05] to win 2,010,000, [37:08] They were 200 to 1. [37:10] It's been three days. [37:12] What are they on FanDuel right now, Bill? They're 25 to 1? 35 to 1. 35 to 1? That's a great investment. [37:19] The ticket right now, the tickets worth $65,000. I mean, I would never hedge. I'll never sell it and it'll probably lose. But. [37:28] that it was just mispriced. It's like, it's just a mistake. [37:31] Just a mistake. You can at least try to hedge that with OKC. Like there's moves you can make. Well, I'll tell you another thing that you will laugh at me about.

[37:40] I have, not from Vegas, but from a gambling app, [37:44] the day before the playoffs started, [37:47] $1,000 just of my own money, $150 to one on the Los Angeles Lakers. So I just need a Lakers-T-Wolves Western Conference Finals, and I am free-rolling. [38:02] Um, [38:03] But I... [38:04] I was watching last night. [38:06] And I swear, like, the... [38:09] Watching Minnesota play so well and then almost blow it and then Champagny have a shot. Because I now think Minnesota is going to win the series. [38:19] And had he made that shot, [38:22] I think they would have lost in five. Right. I think it would have been such a stomach punch. Yeah. [38:27] Um, yeah, [38:29] So, look... [38:31] The Celtics had an awful loss on Saturday. My daughter turned 21-21. [38:36] I don't like to apologize to my listeners that often. [38:39] I really regret not studying the Minnesota-San Antonio thing way longer. [38:45] The Edwards thing's a great point. It was basically the same. Yeah, he came back in nine days. They said it was going to be 14. He was really only on paper, probably only missing game one. [38:55] But the thing I realized last night I was watching and I was kicking myself, I was trying to think of – [39:01] 21st century hall of fame. Fuck you. Basketball teams. [39:05] Just teams that [39:07] Just have fuck you. [39:09] All of everything they're doing, the way they're carrying themselves, everything. And I think the three I had were the pre-Melee Pacers.

[39:16] Which ended up the fuck you spilled in the crowd. But the way they carried it, that first month before the fight, they looked like they were going to win the title. And they looked like a more dangerous, scarier version of the 04 Pistons. The 07 Warriors in the We Believe season. Ironically, Steven Jackson on both of those teams. Yeah. [39:34] And I think the 2020 heat had it too. [39:37] And it was interesting because when that was the series, I screwed this up a pod before where Dragic got hurt, but, [39:42] There was something about that Heat team that they were just – they carried themselves – [39:46] Like Dragon Slayers. Like, do you watch Survivor? [39:49] No. There's this survivor contestant, Coach. [39:54] who tries to, he calls himself the Dragon Slayer and he tries to carry himself like a fuck you guy and it always backfires on him. There's certain teams that actually carry it and can do it. [40:04] The stuff they said after the game Where Shannon's like [40:09] I'm going to fucking drive to the basket. [40:11] And when we might block some of them, I'm going to keep coming and he can either block them or I'm going to score, but I'm never going to stop coming to the basket. It's like, I think that's exactly how you have to play San Antonio. Keep coming. [40:23] And you can't [40:24] Because here's the thing. [40:26] A blocked shot does not kill a possession as much as... [40:30] a shot clock violation because you won't put anything up yeah you might get the ball back [40:35] One of the biggest shots of the game last night. [40:39] was after a blocked shot. I think it was Conley, the corner three. Shout out Mike Conley, by the way. The Rockets could have had him. They probably saved their season.

[40:50] I would add maybe to your list the grit and grind Grizzlies who one time. That's another great one. [40:57] They didn't have their best player for a game seven. He punched someone in the head in game six of a series. That's a great one. [41:07] The 2011 Grizzlies, I apologize. That's the perfect ad for this. [41:12] And so I... [41:14] Here's the thing why I feel so good about Minnesota. [41:18] I don't think they played great yesterday. [41:20] They were all over the free throw line. Yeah, he was mad after the game. [41:25] They were awful from the free throw line. [41:28] McDaniels was in foul trouble the whole game so he couldn't do all his shit. [41:33] Ant was just getting back into the flow of it. You could see it, but he ran out of gas at the end and almost blew it. And he only played 25 minutes. [41:41] Right. [41:42] And they still and by the at some point, I think. [41:47] I.O. is going to take those Bones Island minutes. [41:51] And Bones Highland, he hit the 1-3. They took it off, but he's 0-6. [41:56] And you left out two other things. Nobody believes in this energy. They're like a football team. This is like watching an NFL playoffs. [42:04] Finch, what he said after the last series... [42:07] where he's like, they wanted to play us. This is what they wanted, and that really made us mad. [42:12] And now this series, same thing, where the Spurs, huge favorites, [42:16] The Darlings. [42:17] That's one. The other is [42:20] You don't really realize it sometimes until you're watching it.

[42:23] The Spurs are going to need Carter Bryant to come back. [42:27] and actually play real minutes, or they're gonna lose the series. Because Minnesota has a physicality advantage, [42:33] with Randall and with Edwards and, [42:36] And to me, San Antonio last night, three guards... [42:40] Vassell and Wemby. [42:42] It's not going to cut it. They're not big enough. [42:45] Well, and... [42:47] And, [42:49] There's two other kind of [42:52] And I'm not like an X's and O's guy, but it's very obvious. There's two things that jumped out to me before the series and now after watching game one. [43:02] When... [43:03] When Gobert's on the court, [43:06] He really is going to give Wimby trouble on offense. However, him being on the court fully unleashes Wimby on defense because Gobert is never going to be anywhere but by the basket. So Wimby can just play safety and block everything. [43:20] However, [43:21] When Gobert is off the court, [43:24] They can mitigate Wimby a bit because they can go five out. [43:29] And they can go five out because everybody can shoot. So that's the first. And then also multiple physical guys that can come in. [43:37] You just want to beat him up. He's 22. He's never played 10 straight weeks of playoffs like this. [43:44] Zach, I listened to Zach today. [43:46] Zach said last night was the third most minutes he's ever played in any game in his career. It was 40.

[43:53] It wasn't 46, it was 40. And at the end, he looked crazy. [43:58] The final possession, Derek Harper gets the rebound, gives it to Wimby. Wimby gives it right back to him. Like, I ain't, no, no. [44:07] He was gassed. And they didn't. Remember the Denver, the Saturday game against the back and forth with Joker? Same thing happened. He got gassed in the OT. Right. The game of the year. And by overtime, he's out. He's just out of it. [44:19] And you are... [44:21] How many... [44:23] elbows to the ribs, and he had those bruised ribs at the very end of the year. [44:29] Is he going to have. [44:31] From Gobert, Randall, and Nasri. How about how many guys going full speed, driving into him, knees hitting his legs, elbows, push-offs? I think their whole game plan is to beat the shit out of him. [44:44] Which is why winning, which is why they couldn't blow that first game, Minnesota. Like they couldn't have done all that and then lose. Well, that's my five game rule where it's like if you lose that game, now you basically have to win five games in a seven game series. You're not going to win. You have to win. Correct. [45:00] And so I and I just think. [45:03] Ant [45:05] I'm going to say one other thing that I think is like psychologically just true. [45:10] And this is a problem probably for a lot of Kevin Durant teams, to be totally honest. The best teams take on the personality of their best player, whether he wants them to or not. [45:22] Like my team, the Kansas City Chiefs, you know why there's never any bulletin board material? Because Mahomes is the most boring press conference there's ever been. And everyone just falls in line. Brady was like this too.

[45:35] Right. The Thunder, Shea is kind of a unique... [45:41] personality, I don't want to say corny, but whatever it is, he's got his own thing. Everybody's like, you know what? We're doing group photos, we're doing group commercials, we're doing that. [45:52] Ant is so crazy. [45:55] God damn fearless. Yeah. And confident. [45:59] that [46:00] Not only does the whole team take on the personality, you know who I think it is great for? [46:05] is Go Bear. [46:07] Who Gobert is just like, man, I've just been a fucking punchline. Everybody make me my own team. When I was in Utah, it seemed like sometimes my own teammates didn't like me. The inside the NBA makes fun of me. Draymond chokes me. I don't get the respect. And now I started COVID. [46:25] Yeah, well, that was – I mean, that wasn't great. That was not great. And now – [46:31] I like it's like I've got the toughest crew. [46:35] And guess what? [46:37] Joker... [46:39] Come deal with me. [46:40] Wimby, this is for... Gobert's going to be in the Hall of Fame. And this is the... Everyone's in the Hall of Fame. Could be... [46:48] What'd you say? Everyone makes the Hall of Fame, though. Right. I understand. But four-time defensive player of the year. No, he's going to make it. This is the moment where... [46:58] he can really puff his chest out and doing it against [47:02] Like, I don't know if Wimby's his protege, but... [47:05] you know, this, they're both French, like, he's known him since he was a kid, like,

[47:09] I don't know. I think Minnesota's dangerous. There's a little Big Brother, Little Brother thing to that. Like, when you know somebody, when... [47:16] you know, when they were 12 and you were 25 or whatever it is, like you're always going to kind of see them that way. What you just described with the Gobert thing with Ant, [47:25] It's one of my favorite basketball things. The best one ever for this was Bill Lambeer. [47:29] who ends up on a team eventually with Mahoran. [47:34] And then Isaiah, who was probably the toughest guy of the 80s, even though he was six foot two and that whole team. And then all of a sudden, Lambert is like, by 1990, Lambert is like, I think I can fight Charles Barkley. [47:45] and gets like, he's throwing actual punches with Barkley. He's clotheslining dudes that, that, you know, [47:51] You can do that when you have those guys around you. [47:54] And then in the early 90s, those guys weren't around him. And what happened? The Knicks, they come in, the Riley Knicks, and they basically just – [48:01] snatch their souls like a boxer. [48:04] But it's so authentic from... [48:08] Ant, Jaden, and Julius Randall. Those guys are like, we're badasses, and we're going to beat you up. That it is infectious for everybody. Randall and the Joker fight, it seemed like Randall was going to, or they're near fight. It seemed like Randall wanted to fight everybody in that. [48:24] Yeah, it's a tough day. [48:27] Yeah. And so I just I don't know, man, I am. So here are my concerns. [48:31] Can they ramp up Edwards' minutes enough? [48:35] They're relying on zombie Mike Conley, who played a good game six and played...

[48:40] Decent minutes for them yesterday, but old guys in a series always makes me nervous. [48:44] Um, what's going to come as I are going to be able to come back and actually play the Shannon thing, what he brought to the table in different Chenzo's place. I kind of liked it. [48:54] Like just, it just felt like another relentless guy who just, all he wanted to do was ball and get to the rim. San Antonio three point shootings. Always going to make me nervous with them. [49:05] The youth and the inexperience, including the coach. [49:09] And then, uh, [49:10] The fact that they need Carter Bryant, who's a rookie. I don't even think he's 20 yet, but they're actually going to genuinely need him in this series. And then the big thing is Fox. [49:18] Because Fox killed them yesterday. [49:20] And I felt like they didn't want to bench him because they didn't want it to become a story, but they should have. [49:25] And they should have played Harper down the stretch. [49:29] I'm not going to say Harper's better than Fox, but Fox was so bad in that game. [49:34] And it's going to be a story now because he knows he'll be the fall guy if they lose. [49:38] Yeah, the Fox thing's really disappointing. I've [49:42] Um, [49:43] I lived in Houston when he, we've talked about this a bit, [49:47] My son was a big time high school and then college basketball player. And so they, I was in a lot of the same AU events as De'Aaron Fox. Yeah. Uh, [49:58] And he's a little just a little bit older than my son. I mean, I watched him score 40 points in the first half of a running clock AAU game. I've never seen anybody like him on the court. And so I've always I rooted for him in Sacramento. Yeah, I've always liked him.

[50:14] But he is the... [50:17] fulcrum of this series because i don't care about harrison barnes experience harrison barnes is not a key part of the rotation luke cornett has experience he's a backup center the only guy with playoff experience that should be on the court in crunch time is five you would trust yeah and if he's not if he's not up to it [50:38] It's such you're going to have. [50:41] moments like the end of last night. Can we spend a minute talking about the very end? Also, he's going against Mike Conley instead of Ayo. [50:47] What happens when the Iowa comes back? That should have been the easiest game in this series for you. [50:53] What did you make of the final possession for San Antonio? [50:58] Young team, I'm calling timeout. [51:00] A lot of times I like to let the clock go in that situation. I think you do it if you have an older team, experienced team, like if you're the Knicks, [51:09] Young team on content now. [51:11] And I didn't think Champagne Shot was going in. [51:14] Even though it was wide open and it was the best possible shot they could have gotten and kind of that. [51:20] you know, Harry Caray kind of situation. [51:22] I would have called timeout, but it's like staying on 12 and blackjack. [51:29] You kind of have to decide, is this who I am with this moment? [51:33] You can't just be like, every time I do something differently. So that's apparently what they do. [51:38] So I... [51:40] to [51:41] takes, I guess. [51:44] If I'm Mitch Johnson...

[51:46] and I see Harper get the rebound and throw it to Wemby. The moment I see that, no, the moment I see that Wemby has now just passed it back, timeout. Yeah. Like, if he threw it to him and Wemby's ripping up the court, like, all right, you know what? You know what? [52:00] Win or die with what this guy decides to do. Either way, it's an important moment for him. But once he gave it back, I'd be like, okay, let's talk it over. [52:09] My other, I normally think down to go for the three because over time, like try to get the win. [52:17] It felt to me like [52:19] Because the one time I am a bigger fan of playing for overtime is when the other team has just absolutely melted down. Well, and also has a guy on a minutes restriction who's their best guy. I know Castle had fouled out, which works against it. Yeah. But... [52:38] It just like. [52:40] When LeBron hit the three in game three against Houston, he was a good one. [52:44] It was 100%. [52:47] That if Houston did not win in regulation, they were losing in overtime because it was such an emotional devastation that you were there. [52:55] Minnesota was upset with a minute and a half. But the Satners say their momentum doesn't matter, though. [52:58] I don't give a shit. There are certain things that you just... You know. You know it every time, especially if you're in the building for that. [53:08] Right. If you blow it, if you're a big underdog that had a game one and then lost it, but and it goes to overtime, it was missing the three in the corner. I knew we were going to lose. Game was over.

[53:21] And so... [53:23] I just, I wouldn't have hated... [53:25] a timeout, [53:26] And the other thing is this. Here's the thing that timeout allows for you to have. [53:31] If you are, like you're saying, San Antonio, trying to win and also – [53:37] trying to win next year and like develop something. [53:41] A good moment for Wemby either way. [53:44] Hey man, drawing this up for you. [53:47] Win or lose. We know you're 5 for 18, and they're going to put Rudy Gobert in now that we call timeout. All right, so that's a fair point. That's a fair point, keeping Gobert off the court. But this is the issue with them, is who is your... [53:59] I'm going to create a good shot going downhill for us on our team. And the answer is it's Dylan Harper, who's 19 years old. Even in that moment when he got the rebound, he's going to be a good shot. [54:09] Five years from now, he's going to know in his head exactly how much time is left and he's off. [54:14] He doesn't throw it to Wemby. He's just going because he knows I have eight seconds. I got to go. He's 19. He was like, hey, oh shit, there's seven seconds left. And you can see it the way [54:24] That's the problem with relying on young guys. By the way, I think I've been calling Dylan Harper Derek Harper. You did it once. Listen, listeners of this podcast are used to old guy things like that, so it's fine. I have a really important question for you about this series. [54:38] Yeah. [54:40] Who do you think OKC wants to play? [54:43] After they watched that first game. [54:46] What a great question. [54:49] I was thinking about this all day, and I don't even have an answer, but I think they would want to play Minnesota because San Antonio was such a weird matchup for them.

[54:59] But after watching that game, I think I'd be afraid of the fuck you with the Minnesota team. [55:05] Man, it's going to feel... [55:08] If Minnesota wins this series, it's going to be a good one. [55:12] It will feel a little Team of Destiny-ish, and we assume Ant will be, by the end of it, [55:19] in the best, like, [55:21] the healthiest he's been, [55:23] That team, I would want nothing to do with. How about the run of... [55:29] Beating Joker... [55:31] and beating them to the point that [55:33] Shams is on SportsCenter the next day going, they'll take calls on everyone on the team except Jokic. That's round one. Round two is we've cut the legs out of this Wemby juggernaut that everybody was just assuming it was going to be. Then round three, you beat the back-to-back potential champs. [55:49] who've just won [55:50] I think 140 games in two years or whatever it is. Yep. And then round four, you beat the Knicks. It's about as good of a run as you're going to have. Certainly would be as good at, [56:00] If, [56:01] It would be as good of a run to a finals. [56:05] As we've had... [56:06] in [56:08] Since Dirk's... Dirk in 11 or Hakeem in 95. Hakeem in 95 is the all-timer. [56:14] Oh, yeah. That's my favorite. But this team is a six seed, too. Yeah. And by the way, it came in 95, also ended with the Knicks. Well, here's the other question. Well, answer that one. It came in 95, ended with the Magic. Sorry, go ahead. [56:28] So who do you think they're rooting for?

[56:30] I think they'd, as crazy as it sounds, because San Antonio owned them, I think at this point, [56:37] They'd rather play San Antonio. [56:40] Who do you think the NBA is rooting for? [56:45] Because I think you could make the case... [56:47] It's better for the NBA if Minnesota wins this series. [56:50] Because Wemby is already going to happen. Wemby is inevitable. [56:54] But Minnesota elevates Ant. Yeah. And it gives – I think that is true. And I think there is a authenticity and charisma to Ant. [57:06] That is just infectious. Yeah. And... [57:10] That is impossible to. [57:12] not to be drawn to and [57:16] It is... [57:17] I also feel like Minnesota winning it [57:20] gives a lot of fan bases hope. [57:24] Because Minnesota is not a like considered... [57:27] They're just smartly put together. [57:30] They did get a number one pick in the draft. [57:34] Yes, Ant's a great, great player, don't get me wrong, but they don't look at him like an alien like Wimby. It's not like OKC, it's like, oh, well, yeah, they have a billion picks and pulled off this heist. It's like, no, actually... [57:47] We had a smart GM. We just lost the most improved player in the league. We left our team. We lost him and had to replace him. Nikhil Alexander-Walker, and we were fine. So I think that [57:59] is I think Minnesota winning it. I also, again, as your audience, as I just told them,

[58:04] I have a half a million dollar worth of equity in it. So I guess maybe I'm a little... It's an awesome story. I could not believe... [58:14] Sometimes I watch, like, you know, right away with a playoff series. Orlando, Detroit, it was just clear they were even. [58:20] And you could watch game one and you're like, oh shit, this is going to be a good series. [58:25] Boston Philly, [58:26] Game three was the game that worried me. Then Embiid came back and messed them up for a game, but [58:31] Game three, even though the Celtics win, it's like, [58:33] Ah, they seem... [58:36] really comfortable against us. This is a bad, bad sign. And I think that game yesterday, I don't think it was a fluke. Castle fouling out, you can point to. Fox was terrible. No Carter Bryant. Those are three things they can fix. But I agree with you. I think Minnesota could absolutely win this series and [58:52] Gun to my head, I think I would pick them. [58:55] Listen, I... [58:57] I think it is... [58:59] Minnesota was like, [59:01] plus [59:03] 800 and then the ant news came down and they were down to like plus 400. And then right before tip off was down to like plus 350. Yeah. And now right now I think they're like plus 160. And the only reason I don't think it is even is, [59:17] is because... [59:19] It's already if they started as such dogs, it hasn't totally fully overcorrected. [59:24] But I... [59:26] I think plus 176 right now. Okay. Plus 176. That's fair. Considering they have three home games left. The guys come back. We got to take a break and we have two more big topics.

[59:36] All right, pretty good NBA playoffs so far. In case you didn't know, all playoffs long, I'm looking at the Slates, sharing my favorite picks. [59:43] on Twitter. I almost hit everything. [59:47] last Friday and ended up Tatum gets hurt in the third quarter and doesn't hit his points rebounds over. [59:54] which he was very close on. Everything else hit. [59:57] This is what happens, but this is also why same-game parlays are so excited to do. I'm posting my picks on Twitter. [1:00:04] Usually for the Wednesday games and then maybe Friday over the weekend. [1:00:08] So I'll be looking at San Antonio, Minnesota. [1:00:11] Put in some sort of pick. I really think Minnesota every game is a live underdog because they are absolutely convinced that they can beat San Antonio. So stay tuned for that pick. When I bet, I bet with Fando, a brand I trust. [1:00:23] Easy to build your NBA bets on FanDuel. You know you're getting great odds, payouts on your parlays, many boost options. [1:00:30] and you're going to get your winnings instantly. FanDuel. [1:00:33] Play your game. [1:00:35] All right, I want to do lottery karma rankings with you, but you wanted to do LeBron and the Ringer 100 quick. So go ahead. You have the floor. Yeah. Well, I don't know how quick. You're going to have to cut me off. Make it kind of quick. [1:00:45] I know where you're going with it. [1:00:47] I just have a request. [1:00:50] To the founder of, [1:00:52] CEO and president of The Ringer. [1:00:55] to convene an emergency ranking session. [1:00:59] And be like, hey, real quick, everybody. [1:01:03] I just want to do a status check. [1:01:05] Do we still think [1:01:06] All the old guys are better than LeBron.

[1:01:09] Because all fucking year I've had to look at this and see, oh, Steph Curry's better than LeBron. That's cool. Kawhi, he's obviously better than LeBron. Kevin Durant, oh my God, he's clearly better than LeBron. James freaking Harden better than LeBron. I'm looking at it. [1:01:24] And I don't know. I live in New York City. I saw Steph Curry yesterday at the Met Gala. [1:01:29] Kevin Durant, I didn't see him, but I know what he's doing, hanging out somewhere, ruining a locker room via Twitter. Hey, Kawhi Leonard is winning our buddy Pablo Pulitzer. James Harden's going three for nine in a game seven, and LeBron's throwing goddamn alley-oops to his son in the same game he hit a series-clinching three, and I gotta say, he's not a top-20 player in the league. Give me a break. Can LeBron please be the highest-ranked old guy? Please? [1:01:58] Well, we do the list every month and it's a snapshot of where everybody is at that moment when we do the list. And I'm sure he'll be much higher when we do the list again. I think we need to add another list though. [1:02:09] Which, by the way, is always great content. But we have the Ringer 100. That's over here. [1:02:14] So somebody like Embiid's not going to do well in the Ringer 100 because he plays 30 games a year. [1:02:19] Like at some point you got to, [1:02:20] durability has to become a huge part of the ranking. I think we should start a list of [1:02:27] Best guys, if I know I'm getting them 100% healthy for one playoff series, what's your list? [1:02:34] And then LeBron moves up. [1:02:37] really high on that list. I think by that metric, first of all, I hear what you're saying about durability really matters. Not for the ringers. Favorite child, Steph Curry. He can miss 35 games. Nobody cares. He's got to be top 10. Not neither nor there. Fair. If that were the list.

[1:02:55] What you said exactly. [1:02:57] I think LeBron right now is still a top eight guy. [1:03:01] What you said, you get him fully healthy. I think he's 14 to 15 range, but you could talk me into 10, 11, 12, just because how fucking smart he is. [1:03:12] Yeah. That Houston series, and I should have probably talked more about it on this pod, but Houston was so... [1:03:19] disgraceful with the whole everything. It was also brutal. I was so mad about this. [1:03:25] It was the two critical moments in the series were Friday nights, which are terrible for TV shows and pods. Yeah, you're right. Game three, the steal in game time three is a Friday night. And then the masterpiece in game six is a Friday night. So it's just bad for content. But it was... [1:03:45] How many times have we seen him... [1:03:48] Just do that to a team. [1:03:50] where it's just like, [1:03:52] Jordan would do it with his prowess. LeBron kind of will do it with his prowess, but his brain. And he just kind of unlocks the other team. And you give him a team like that, [1:04:01] messed up Rockets team with no point guard and a weird coach. And I'm not sure the chemistry was great. And it's like fucking red meat for LeBron. No. Yes. And that's why. And so that's why. [1:04:12] I... [1:04:13] Like, [1:04:15] Is Cade Cunningham better than LeBron right now? Yeah, sure. Of course. He's Cade Cunningham. He's first-team All-NBA. Got it. [1:04:22] But Cade Cunningham and Jalen Brunson and Tyrese Maxey, all these guys who are better than LeBron,

[1:04:30] Even by I would say so. [1:04:33] could not [1:04:34] Have after a game and a half just been like, oh, I'm going to be a good one. [1:04:38] Here are the fatal flaws of Houston. And now you can't win. And, and I am going to, I am in the, I'm going to be in such full control. [1:04:48] I'm creating memes with little kids on the bench. I'm mortifying Shin Goon in front of his teammates saying, everyone else can complain about me flopping, but not you. All your teammates can, but not you. I'm doing all of this, and it is juxtaposed – [1:05:06] to... [1:05:07] one of his primary rivals of the era, [1:05:11] The story around him being... [1:05:13] Wait. [1:05:14] He's on an underwater treadmill during game three. Yeah. Wait. It's tough. The team, and I like Katie a lot, but oh yeah, as it turns out, [1:05:24] you know him shit talking his team actually bad for chemistry and it did kind of hurt the locker room no we learned we learned on an espn.com feature today that [1:05:35] The young guys on the team are used to criticism, so it didn't bother them as much as you'd think. [1:05:39] I would have fucking hated him after I read that. And I'm playing basketball with him and I've been like, fuck this guy. [1:05:46] Dude, of course. But also that feature was wild because that feature also said internally the Rockets view Reed Shepard. [1:05:54] With Steve Nash upside. [1:05:57] You know what Steve Nash could do early in his career? Dribble and pass.

[1:06:01] And so, yeah, I mean, I'm glad I got that off my chest. I'm glad you did too. And I do think we should have a, I know I'm getting you 100% healthy for this playoff series list. [1:06:14] I don't know what number he'd be, but I don't think I would have him as high as eight. [1:06:21] Okay, Ladder Karma Power Rankings. Let's go. [1:06:24] I first wrote this column in 2007, back when my fingers worked. I had more things on there. [1:06:30] Um, [1:06:31] Basically, the concept is who should win the lottery. [1:06:34] And we have four chances. They do the lottery for the first four picks. [1:06:39] The big questions, I used to have more questions, but for Karma... [1:06:44] Number one, is your team overdue to win the lottery? [1:06:48] Great. [1:06:49] So like Utah has never moved up. [1:06:51] that's the team I would say is overdue. Indiana, I don't think has ever had the first pick. That'd be another one. Um, [1:06:57] has the team's big picture game plan. [1:07:02] made any sense. [1:07:04] So Sacramento, for instance, paying the luxury tax for one of the worst teams in the league and not having a future. [1:07:09] They would count as not making sense. Like the Bulls. The Bulls. It's not making. Well, the Bulls actually make sense because they're like, we just want to cheap out every year and our fans are going to pay for tickets. Yeah, I don't know if Io was that expensive. He probably could be useful. The $7 million was too pricey. Got to cut that out. Kobe White had a playoff moment, but go ahead. Sorry. This one's a big one.

[1:07:34] Did they handle last season... [1:07:36] with dignity. [1:07:38] Oh, that's going to be a tough one for a few of these. Number four. [1:07:44] Did they ever make you say, why can people divorce their spouses, but they can't divorce their teams? [1:07:50] If any of these teams that we have made one of their fans say that to another fan, I'm [1:07:55] We have to measure that in the karma rankings. Then finally... [1:07:58] Do you honestly believe the Karma Gods would feel bad for this team? [1:08:02] is our fifth one. That doesn't happen all the time. [1:08:06] But I think Indiana would be a good case of... [1:08:09] Oh, man. [1:08:10] They were in game seven in the finals and their best guy blew out his Achilles. [1:08:15] So is that the full list of rules? Because I have a question. Those are just five questions, kind of thought starters to think about. [1:08:23] Is there any factor of... [1:08:26] it would be catastrophic for the league if this team won it. [1:08:31] It's a good ad. I think I used to have it. [1:08:34] Catastrophic in the, so you're talking OKC specifically. Yes. Yeah. It normally would not apply. [1:08:41] So we have that covered. I'll give you the categories because we have that covered. [1:08:46] And I'll just give you my list and you can be my conciliary for the list. Love it. First category is- [1:08:53] No karma points whatsoever. [1:08:56] So you're a big goose egg. [1:08:57] OKC is our first team. They're in the 12th spot right now. They have a 1.5 chance to win. [1:09:03] Um,

[1:09:04] There's also a scenario where OKC gets in the top four and Indiana stays in the top four. [1:09:09] AKA the Clippers Apocalypse. [1:09:12] where they would follow up by some sort of ruling the next day. [1:09:19] But yeah, OKC's had in the last 20 years, second, second, fourth, and third. So they've had some lottery. I give them no karma points at all. They're really good. They're probably going to win the title again. They don't deserve to get a top four pick. The other one I have in there, and tell me if I'm right, [1:09:35] And I say this, [1:09:38] With advanced apologies to the Maverick fans who love Luka and did not want to trade him. [1:09:44] They got Cooper flagged last year. [1:09:47] And I think that was the makeup call for the horrible trade. Nico got fired. They just brought him a Masai Uharry. [1:09:54] Things are okay. Kyrie's going to come back. [1:09:57] I think they used up all their karma points last year with the flag thing, but I'm willing to accept other arguments. [1:10:02] Nope, I have no other arguments, but I don't think they used up the karma points for the flag thing. [1:10:11] I think they had karma points even after winning the flag. So you think they have residue karma points? [1:10:17] I think they did. [1:10:18] What happened? And then I think... [1:10:20] Nico Harrison said, and I quote, [1:10:23] I hope people are seeing the vision now. Oh, that extinguished the cover points. Okay. And then they were like, you got to be kidding me. This guy. [1:10:33] So I'm with you. They're out. All right. So they have the eighth spot. They have a 6.7% chance to win.

[1:10:40] 45.2 for top four. [1:10:43] No karma points for them. [1:10:45] By the way, they'll get the seventh, eighth pick. They're going to get a great guard. They'll get somebody really good. [1:10:50] All right, next category is a small vial of karma points. [1:10:55] Charlotte, who's in the 14th spot, [1:10:58] 2.4% chance to move up. But they've picked, Kahn was the third pick, Miller's second, and Lomelo's third. [1:11:05] They don't really need another top four pick. They don't need another top four pick. You do give them credit, though. For the dignity of the season. They really put together a smart team. [1:11:15] And, well, the... Well, I mean, a smartly constructed roster. Yes, yes. [1:11:22] Trying to set me up. Yeah. [1:11:26] And... [1:11:27] Also, the fact that those guys... [1:11:30] If you redrafted, [1:11:32] They made smart picks. Yeah, they went three for three. You could argue Halliburton for LaMelo, but nobody would have taken Halliburton. Nobody would have taken that at the time. That's a different type of thing. So, yeah, so they made the right pick in those. [1:11:43] So they get a little karma for how well they've run the team the last couple of years. [1:11:47] Next one is Miami who's in the 13th spot They're not going to win anyway [1:11:51] Um, um, [1:11:53] They haven't picked higher than 10 since 2008. [1:11:56] They did get the decision and all the stuff with LeBron. [1:11:59] I think they're still dining on the karma points from that. [1:12:02] I had them at zero karma points just in general. [1:12:06] But Bam scoring 83 points on the tanking wizards. I think they won karma points for that. So I'm going to give them a little vibe. That's what I was...

[1:12:13] I was so hoping you were going to go there. Yeah. [1:12:17] That is correct. They get points for that. So if they get into the top four, it'll be like, oh, it's because of the BAM 83. It is because they... [1:12:25] said, [1:12:26] Oh, you're going to shamelessly tank, are you, Washington? Yeah. Well, we're going to scarlet letter you. Yeah. We're going to show you there's a penalty for trying to lose basketball games. And then unapologetic afterwards. Unapologetic. And the penalty is roughly, and again, this is off the top of my head, [1:12:45] The 374th best scorer in the history of the NBA is going to score 83 points on you. Right. And you're just going to eat it. [1:12:53] So I'll give them a little karma for that. [1:12:56] Memphis. [1:12:57] In the sixth spot, 9% to win, 37.2 for top four. [1:13:02] Um, [1:13:04] So Ja was the second pick and Triple J was also the top five pick. [1:13:10] They also took Kevin Love 5 and Sabit 2. [1:13:14] From 95 to 2002, they picked 63422264. [1:13:20] They've had 12 top six picks in the last 30 years, the Grizzlies franchise. [1:13:25] 12 top six picks in the last 30 years. [1:13:29] This is their second teardown slash rebuild in seven, eight years. Sorry, Chris Vernon. It's true. [1:13:34] Karma points for [1:13:37] Wasn't their fault. Ja flamed out. Everyone would have taken them second. And I don't know what, [1:13:42] they really could have done differently. So they get points for that.

[1:13:46] They're one of five teams that have never made the finals. [1:13:48] And recently LeBron crapped on their city. [1:13:52] And I think they get points for all three of those things where if they won one of the top four picks, I don't think people would be that upset. [1:13:58] So I'm going to give them a little vial. [1:14:00] Can I give them a little extra? Yeah. Okay. We can move them into the next category if you want. [1:14:04] I would like to rep for Memphis for a moment. Let's hear it. [1:14:08] So, [1:14:09] My sister-in-law lives in Memphis. I go there a lot. [1:14:15] LeBron's comments really, really, [1:14:19] Like, [1:14:20] hurt the feelings of folks in that city. [1:14:23] in a way that I thought was a little too much. [1:14:27] But it really bothered them. [1:14:29] There is a it's a very yes, it is a very tough city, but it is a prideful city. [1:14:34] And they did everything they could. [1:14:36] to really support and love [1:14:39] The jaw grizzlies. [1:14:42] And through no fault of the, in my opinion, the organization and certainly the fans, the [1:14:47] Just screwed the whole thing up. [1:14:50] And so you're we'll move them higher. OK, you're selling me. Yeah, I would like Memphis to have another shot at this. [1:14:58] And so, yeah, I would like to move up. So we'll revisit a little bit later. [1:15:04] So that list was just Charlotte and Miami. [1:15:06] You know, the thing about the LeBron comments, it was almost like a sucker punch. [1:15:12] It was like somebody punched them from behind as they're just walking down the street and they just woke up the next day like, what happened?

[1:15:19] LeBron punched you in the back of the head. But what? Why did he do that? There was no warning at all. And listen, as it turns out, because I then, you know, followed that story probably closer than most. [1:15:31] Man, NBA guys really do hate that hotel. That's it. It all comes down to the hotel. That's all that matters. Just build a four-story Mandarin and you're good. It's just the hotel. Yeah, that's it. [1:15:44] But LeBron, he was golfing, he was trying to make people laugh. He should have just really focused his critique on just the hotel. It wouldn't have hurt as bad. So, yeah. [1:15:54] I didn't mind it because I think LeBron's one of his issues over the years. I don't feel like we see the real LeBron in some of this stuff. Authentic LeBron that I'm sure he's actually like. [1:16:05] versus what's presented to us, [1:16:07] And I thought in that golf video, it's just, I think that's what he's like. So I was like, this is, [1:16:11] I wish he did more of this, but then he ended up, [1:16:14] you know, uh, making an entire city feel terrible for a week. Everybody got mad at him. All right. Next category, a soup cup of karma points. [1:16:22] So Milwaukee is in the 10th spot, 3.0%. [1:16:26] Top four would be 13.9. Ironically, they get the worst of their pick or Atlanta's pick. [1:16:32] Or the Pelicans pick that goes to Atlanta. Yes. [1:16:34] So I don't even know how to do the karma points here because if they go into the top four, Atlanta takes the pick anyway. [1:16:40] I'll give them a little though. [1:16:42] They need... [1:16:45] Ideally, both of them to go in. Yeah, they need both picks to go in. So they need both. So they need a lot of help.

[1:16:52] Here's. [1:16:53] Yeah, I'm fine with them not having a ton. [1:16:56] And here's why. [1:16:58] What's that? Go. [1:17:02] Everyone in the media. [1:17:05] has landed on [1:17:07] Jeez, Giannis. [1:17:09] Enough already. Ask for a trade. Move on. All the pressure's on Giannis. [1:17:15] When everyone I think acknowledges [1:17:17] Yes, it's best for Giannis to move on. It's also best for... [1:17:22] for Milwaukee to move on from Giannis. It's best for both parties. And there is... So... [1:17:28] There should be just as much, if not more pressure on the party that actually has to execute the trade. [1:17:35] To be like, you know what, Giannis? [1:17:37] We're going to move on from you. But they don't want to be a bad guy. And everyone's like, well, of course, you don't want to trade Giannis. I'm demanding it. And Giannis is like, well, I don't want to be a bad guy either. So I just think. [1:17:48] Pardon me. The organization hasn't been great. Also, Jimmy Haslam, [1:17:52] bought into the team. Karma's not coming his way anytime soon. So yeah, they don't need any extra karma. I forgot about the Jimmy Hatt. So we could move them back then. [1:18:02] That's fine. Yeah. Put them where you had Memphis. Um, [1:18:07] Yeah, the Giannis Milwaukee thing was like the benevolent version of the Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively lawsuit that finally got settled. [1:18:15] Neither one wanted to admit that they were the one that wanted to settle it, which is basically where we are with the Bucs. Okay, next one is Sacramento.

[1:18:24] I was very curious where you were going to have fifth spot, 11.5%. [1:18:30] They had the fourth pick in 22, Murray. [1:18:33] They had second and 18 Marvin Bagley. [1:18:36] One pick ahead of Luca. Luca. And then... Wadde said Luca's a big market guy. Can't do that. He was in Sacramento. Sacramento wasn't a big enough market. Can't take him. Got to take a more loyal, worse player. One of the craziest takes I've ever heard. He's like, how can Sacramento fans feel worse about this? How about this podcast interview from eight years later? And then Fox was the top five pick. [1:18:58] So from 2009 to 18, they picked 4, 5, 7, 5, 7, 8, 6, 8, 5, 2. [1:19:06] Um, [1:19:07] And I'm just tired of this team and this franchise. [1:19:10] But the karma points... [1:19:12] and this is why they're in the soup cup, their fans, this 20-year run for them, [1:19:17] Just for the fans only, there has to be like a significant amount of karma points. Like this is 20 years of just, ugh. [1:19:25] They've never had the number one pick, right? Never had it. [1:19:29] Oh, no, they had it once. Never Nervous Purvis. [1:19:33] Oh, okay. So yeah, that was late 80s. 89. So they haven't had the number one pick in 35 years. They've certainly been bad enough to get it. [1:19:43] There's six teams that haven't had the pick. Denver, Miami, Utah, the Hornets, the Lakers, and the Pacers. [1:19:51] The Lakers not having ever had the number one pick and having had the,

[1:19:56] nine number one picks on the team and their history is just bananas. Right. Um, yeah, I'm fine with that for Sacramento. Okay. [1:20:04] Now for a special part of today's episode where we unpack... [1:20:09] A six-pack, or rather six of the biggest things happening on and off the court during playoff season. [1:20:14] Brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. [1:20:18] and a superior person. [1:20:19] Light beer. I had a couple of them last weekend and, uh, [1:20:23] It really is superior. [1:20:24] Let's get started. Here's my six-pack. [1:20:27] Six possible trade candidate fall guys. [1:20:31] for round two as round two evolves here over the next two weeks. [1:20:35] who not only might take some of the blame for a playoff loss, but also it would open the door for them to potentially – [1:20:43] betrayed bait. [1:20:45] to improve the team. [1:20:46] I'm going to rank from one to six for the six pack. Number one, Jared Allen on Cleveland because if Cleveland – [1:20:52] Cannot get by Detroit. [1:20:54] That will mean they probably have to decide between Mobley and Jared Allen as... [1:20:59] they're quote unquote big. Maybe you could trade one of them to either, um, [1:21:04] Change the team. Get somebody like Giannis. If you put Moby on the table or just trade Jared Allen for somebody who's a little bit cheaper. But I think Cleveland would have to decide between those two guys because over and over again, it would have been the same story with them. That's one. Number two, De'Aaron Fox, which Nick Wright and Ty talked about on the Tuesday pod. [1:21:22] If he just cannot rise to the challenge against... [1:21:25] a Timberwolves team that has zombie Mike Conley and I had a soon move who's

[1:21:31] battling injury if he can't [1:21:34] figure out a way to really impact that. He would be a potential guy. Maybe they turned him into a shooter or somebody with more size. Number three, Nas Reed. I don't know if anybody on the Nobody Believes in Us Timberwolves, [1:21:48] would even be in the trade block. But this would be the one guy you would maybe think about because for what he's making, [1:21:55] and doesn't play a ton of minutes, and you have Gobert, and you have Randall, and maybe you could flip him into more guard help or something else. But I'm not even sure I really believe in this one. Number four, Evan Mobley. [1:22:08] For all the same reasons I mentioned with the Cavs. Number five, Carl Towns. [1:22:13] on the New York Knickerbockers, just because if they somehow blow this Sixers series, I assume there will be a fall guy in the Knicks and Giannis trade rumors, and he's the logical person that would be in a trade. [1:22:24] I actually like the way he's playing in the playoffs, but had to mention him. And then, [1:22:29] Number six, I have Isaiah Stewart on the Pistons, who reasonable salary. He's making like 15. Really good advanced stats. Could probably be the starting center for somebody. And maybe you see his usage gets yanked around. [1:22:43] on Detroit with Durant. Sometimes they get smaller. Maybe that's a piece they would want to [1:22:47] put in a trade to get the much needed second score they have. So Cade Cunningham doesn't have to shoot 35 times. Honorable mention Austin Reeves as a sign and trade. Just had to throw him out there in case the Lakers decide, maybe we do want to keep LeBron.

[1:23:01] Anyway. [1:23:02] That's it for today's six pack. [1:23:04] So now you can go grab [1:23:07] your own six-pack of Michelob Ultra. Plus, Michelob Ultra is giving you a chance to win exclusive prizes for [1:23:12] including courtside tickets and more. Enter now at MichelobUltra.com/CourtsideMichelobUltra.com. [1:23:20] superior, [1:23:22] is worth playing for. [1:23:23] Michelob Ultra Courtside 2526, no purchase necessary, open to U.S. Residents 21+. Begins on October 1st, 2025, ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at MichelobUltra.com slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, and prizes and details. [1:23:42] Next one. [1:23:43] is... [1:23:46] Brooklyn. [1:23:47] I didn't really know where to put Brooklyn. 14% they're in the third spot. [1:23:51] Top four, 52.1. They've only had one top three pick. [1:23:56] Really, in the last 20 years, Derek Favors, number three. [1:23:59] Um, [1:24:01] karma points for building the 2024 celtics [1:24:04] Inadvertently. Karma points for... [1:24:07] really trying to make a legitimate run with cap space and KD and Kyrie. [1:24:11] They trade everything for Harden and they get hosed. [1:24:14] I'm going to give them demerits for, I just think they're incredibly poorly run. [1:24:19] I don't understand just about anything they do. And so I kind of put them here. I'm willing to be talked out of it. Listen, man. [1:24:26] Sean Marks, he just needs a 13th or 14th year and he'll nail it. This could be the year. He might have figured it out. So I agree with you in that.

[1:24:37] I do want to give credit for the fact that Brooklyn twice... [1:24:43] in the last 15 years has been like, we are... [1:24:46] Yeah, we're going all in. We want to win the title. We're brazenly going after the title. Right. So I want to give them credit for that. [1:24:54] I want to give them non-credit for the fact that they had five first-round picks last year, and I don't know who any of them are. [1:25:01] I live, I want to, I, I want to give them non-credit for the fact that the first year that they had, [1:25:10] Kyrie, Katie, and Harden, I got... [1:25:14] Pretty good. [1:25:15] season tickets to the Nets. And midway through the year, they were a good team. [1:25:24] And midway through the year, [1:25:27] My wife said to me, next year, [1:25:30] Do you think... [1:25:31] It'd be better if we just spent the money on 10 good Knicks games. [1:25:36] And I was like, really? I mean, you could say five, five good names. Right. And she and it was and it's not like she's, you know, a huge fan of anyone on the Knicks or anything like that. [1:25:47] And she was like... [1:25:48] It just feels so much more fun there. [1:25:52] Like here... [1:25:53] Nobody's really into it. They had Katie, Kyrie and Harden. They had no fans like they. And so, well, you know, when it even gets worse, [1:26:01] The Liberty games are fucking awesome. They're awesome. In the exact same arena. It is the same arena. My daughter and I went to win the Liberty. Sellouts every time. The Clinton game for the title. Yeah. It's electric. Yeah. So that does work against them. Yeah.

[1:26:14] It would, though, they do have to get a superstar to have any chance to, [1:26:19] of getting any type of attention there. So yeah, a little bit. I mean, they've gone for it. I just don't. [1:26:25] I don't think I'm going to keep them in this category. Yeah. [1:26:29] We'd all be better off if they just moved to Seattle and we didn't have expansion. Next category is a salad bowl of karma points. You might disagree with this. I have Golden State here, 2.0%, 11 spot, top four, 9.4%. [1:26:43] They did have Wiseman as the second pick six years ago and Kaminga number seven. Those were their last two really good picks last 15 years. [1:26:50] This is just about... [1:26:52] This is where you're going to get mad. [1:26:54] Yeah, I don't want to see Steph just be on shit teams for the next three years of his career. I'm not going to get mad. I totally agree with that. Let's get him one more good guy. [1:27:01] So I, I'm, [1:27:03] So I don't know what category is bigger than salad bowl. There's two more categories. There's. Okay. [1:27:08] Oh, no, this is the second to last category. [1:27:11] Okay. [1:27:12] Steph, individually, [1:27:14] His karma deserves the biggest. [1:27:17] What works against him and brings it to this just second tier is the team. No, no. [1:27:24] The team being so smug. [1:27:27] in that [1:27:28] We've got one of the 12 greatest players of all time. He's still awesome. [1:27:32] Let's try to win while also preparing for a whole staff life. It was the same shit. I'll never forget. Never. [1:27:42] The Cavs in 2018, when Kyrie wanted out and they could have had Paul George, and the owner, Dan Gilbert, was like, well, no, no.

[1:27:50] We need a post-LeBron life. And so we need a pick that turned into Colin Sexton. And they got little Isaiah Thomas in that trade they did with Boston. That was your guy, though, LeBron. [1:28:03] What do you mean? Because he was going to leave after the year and they're like, we'll do the trade if we know you're staying and he would. Yeah. I am. [1:28:09] I understand. And guess what? Whether he was leaving or not, you know what you should try to do when you have peak LeBron James? Win the title that year. Instead, they were like, no, we have to be okay afterwards. He could have waited one more year and then gone into Lakers in 2019. He could have done all those things. He's been like, I'll sign a one-year extension if you do this trade. [1:28:28] Yeah, he could have done all those things, or the Cavs could have just made the better. First of all, it would have been the better trade. Second of all, planning for a post-affirmation. [1:28:37] A future post your all-time legendary player is dumb. So I hated what the Warriors did to Curry. Like this not maximizing... [1:28:47] those young players for win now guys. So he deserves extra karma. Okay. The organization deserves less. So leave it where it is. Also a little, a tiny douse of negative karma. [1:28:59] for Draymond... [1:29:01] Having the audacity to, [1:29:04] To be like... [1:29:05] Yeah, you know, Steve Kerr held me back. [1:29:07] What? What? [1:29:09] Are you now? I think he only did that to get talk show segments out of it. [1:29:15] Well, he got it. He got – there was content all over the place. Ringer favored Austin Rivers and Draymond. They might be meeting in Temecula soon. They're going after it, but it was – so go ahead. So I'm fired where they're at. Next one, Chicago.

[1:29:29] Top four for them is 20.3%. [1:29:32] They're in the nine spots, so 4.5 to win it. [1:29:35] They've picked fourth in 2020. [1:29:40] They had a stretch from 99 to 08, 144, 27, 32, 9, 1. [1:29:47] Um, [1:29:48] They've been the cheapest big market team in any sport. [1:29:50] If you think the three biggest markets are New York, Chicago, and Los Angeles. Yes. They've been the cheapest of anybody other than the Sterling Clippers. [1:29:58] It's been 28 years since Michael Jordan retired. Their fans deserve better. And all of those are reasons they should have karma points. Conversely, [1:30:06] Do the Reinsdorfs [1:30:07] deserve... [1:30:09] Where do we put this? This is way too high for Chicago. But can you blame the fans, though? So you would put them where Sacramento is, basically. [1:30:18] Yeah. All right, I'm moving back. [1:30:19] I don't blame the fans, but... [1:30:23] Listen, Bulls fans, they're also Bears fans. You just got Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson. You got a hockey team. You got two baseball teams. I don't think that's their attitude. They've just moved to the Cubs, and they've moved to the Bears, and the Bulls, they just assume, are going to go 42-40 every year, and that's the NBA team they have. [1:30:39] Yeah, and so the Ryan's door is just don't deserve it. All right, so we have Golden State, moved Memphis into this category. Utah. Thank you for that. Fourth spot, Utah, 11.5%, top four, 45.2%. [1:30:51] Last 15 years, they picked fifth last year, fifth and 14, took Dante Exum. [1:30:57] and Cantor in 2011.

[1:31:00] They have never moved up in the lottery ever. And they bastardized the sport to the point that they finally had to actually change the lottery rules and do this three, two, one thing. I think they got karma points for that. [1:31:10] They're the catalyst. Why? Yeah. They're the catalyst for changing the lottery in a good way. [1:31:16] It took them before the all-star break to do it. [1:31:19] This is a little bit of you love Danny Ainge and want good things for him. I mean, this is... No, Danny Ainge deserted us and took our best assistant. All right, so maybe... They, I mean... [1:31:34] Here is why the fans of the Jazz... [1:31:38] do deserve good lottery luck. [1:31:42] The fact that the team, that quite literally, for all, [1:31:47] All of NBA 8. [1:31:49] Past, present, and future. [1:31:51] is going to have the hardest time signing free agents. [1:31:55] In perpetuity. [1:31:57] Has never moved up in the lottery. Seems like a sick joke. [1:32:01] Although Salt Lake's red hot right now. [1:32:03] You know, I do believe it is... [1:32:07] I get a baseball team. It's really cool to go there. [1:32:11] I believe, you know, there are reality shows. [1:32:14] Wyoming is sick, is super hot right now, too. You know where you know what demographic it's not super hot around NBA players, NBA free agents, 27 year old NBA superstars, not very often being like, hey, guess where I just got a spread Salt Lake.

[1:32:32] And so they need some luck there. Okay. All right. So keep as is. [1:32:37] So Golden State, Memphis, Utah in this category. I have Atlanta. [1:32:41] via the New Orleans pick. So they had a good season. [1:32:45] They did win the lottery two years ago, so they lose points for that. [1:32:49] Top four, 29.3% chance to move up. [1:32:53] 6.8 for the seventh spot. And the case for them, for Karma Points, they built a really fun team. They did a good job for the most part. They have fun nucleus. [1:33:01] It would be fun if they got one of these guys. And I think this is around the right area for them. So – [1:33:08] When you first told me we were doing this, [1:33:11] My gut was I was going to say Atlanta should be number one. Oh, well, let me give you the other two teams then. Well, no, but I'm going to – but I know – I think you have it right. I know because – so my gut was – [1:33:24] It was such a savvy trade. [1:33:26] with Joe Dumars in New Orleans just to get this pick. [1:33:30] Them having the guts to finally move off Trey Young, the fact that CJ had this moment, all that worked for him. [1:33:39] And then what kept sticking in my head was, yeah, I'm not. [1:33:43] But they took Zachary Resachet, number one overall. So probably third is a good spot. So we have two teams left. [1:33:51] Two karma teams left. Two karma teams. One is in the same category. [1:33:56] The Washington Wizards. [1:33:58] Alright. First spot. 11.5%. [1:34:02] to win. Uh,

[1:34:03] No, that's not right. They're in the first spot. 14% chance to win. Yes. 52.1 for top four. [1:34:09] They picked SAR two years ago, number two. [1:34:12] They got the six pick last year with Johnson. [1:34:15] They've had 12 top six picks in the last 35 years. [1:34:19] Since they made the 1979 finals, they have five playoff series wins in 47 years, and they've never made the conference finals. [1:34:26] And their fans are in about as dark of a place as it gets. [1:34:30] And they're probably upset that they couldn't even win this. [1:34:33] So I have them second [1:34:36] And Anthony Davis is talking as if he's never going to play a game for him. [1:34:40] Yeah, he's on Redfin in every NBA city. Look at it. How is this? They have a pool? Is there an eight-bedroom place in Portland? So figuring out where he's going to be. [1:34:52] Um, they're also about to have... [1:34:55] The Trey Young experience, which I don't think is enjoyable, but, [1:34:59] Can I tell you something about Trae Young? [1:35:02] I think we've all blocked it out of our mind. I was just looking this up randomly the other day because I was looking at Yana stuff. [1:35:09] The Hawks won two games in the 2021 Conference Finals. [1:35:14] Yeah. That series was four to two. [1:35:17] Now, Giannis missed a couple of them, but if you go back and look at the box scores... [1:35:21] They look like two eight seeds compared to now. [1:35:24] It was, it was too, Giannis got hurt. [1:35:28] In game four. Yeah. So it was... [1:35:32] It was 2-2.

[1:35:34] With Giannis out for the rest of the series, Atlanta, [1:35:39] It was going to be, you know, Chris Paul was going to be a champion is what was going to happen. Right. If Atlanta wins that series. Yeah, it was 2-2 in the conference finals. It's remarkable. I think the 2020 and 21 seasons... [1:35:53] 50 years from now, people are going to be on basketball reference like, wait, what? [1:35:57] What's going on here? [1:35:59] I think [1:36:01] I think people will probably remember 20 is probably the final title for the greatest player of all time. It's neither here nor there. Um, [1:36:08] Atlanta, what's working against Atlanta? [1:36:11] is, or I'm sorry, what's working, pardon me, the, um, [1:36:17] The shamelessness, the embarrassment of being scarlet lettered by Bam. I mean, they have just been... [1:36:25] Their fans don't. [1:36:27] deserve it's not on their fans all right i'm fine with them being there i there there's you put atlanta over them [1:36:33] Yes. Okay. I would put it laying in the second spot. Okay. Okay. [1:36:37] And I love who you have number one. Yeah. So this is the last category. A swimming pool of karma points. [1:36:44] Indiana, 14% they're in the two spot. [1:36:47] Top four, 52.1. [1:36:49] An amazing wrinkle. [1:36:51] where, where, [1:36:52] They only keep the pick if it's top four. They could drop to five or six. Otherwise, it goes to the Clippers. [1:36:58] A little similar to, I don't know if you watch Survivor, but Devin's. [1:37:02] flipping the coin to basically try to stay in the game is kind of what they did with that pick

[1:37:06] they flip the coin and if it comes up heads their way and they get a top four pick, [1:37:12] And they get Zubats. [1:37:13] And they get Tyrese Halliburton coming back. Yeah. Like they're, they're probably going to be like the number two favorite in the East. [1:37:20] Well, yeah, and... [1:37:22] They... [1:37:23] If there is ever an acceptable reason... [1:37:28] to throw a season away. [1:37:30] It was them. [1:37:31] It's like, hey, [1:37:32] We... [1:37:33] They... [1:37:33] We made a finals the year before that. They made the conference finals the year before they made the finals. We made the finals and our best guy... [1:37:41] risked everything to play in game seven. [1:37:44] Take a chance and the worst possible outcome happened and ruined our next season. Ruined our next season. [1:37:50] And so we snap recalibrated. We're not, we didn't, [1:37:55] tear it down. We just took a gap year and... [1:38:00] We also also didn't they. [1:38:03] They had their pick only because of a trade pick. [1:38:07] They made a trade during the finals. [1:38:10] to get their pick back, [1:38:12] So they they did that with a little maybe a little premonition of what was to come. That came across conspiracy bills desk last summer. [1:38:22] Why did they make that trade during the finals? Was it like Halliburton protection, like getting protection in blackjack or something? It's crazy how it happened. It was days before the guy gets hurt. Yeah. [1:38:36] They're well-run...

[1:38:38] They have a plan and it, [1:38:42] It is, it's not quite [1:38:44] The 03 lottery where Jerry West is sitting there. [1:38:48] I either get LeBron James or nothing. It's the all-time either or. Although now we know LeBron would have been out of there in 07. Maybe they – no. Can I tell you something? [1:39:01] Not only would LeBron not have been out of there, they would have a 30-story, 30-story, [1:39:07] seven star hotel with what that's downtown would have been if LeBron was there. Um, [1:39:12] The Memphis montage Indiana Being like alright [1:39:20] They're going to be watching the lottery just knowing that, [1:39:25] If three teams move up, [1:39:28] If they come up five or six, it's over. And then if you're... [1:39:32] So the best thing they have going for them is the Clippers would benefit from this. [1:39:37] I don't know if the league would be doing backflips that the Clippers... [1:39:42] Got the fifth pick in the draft. [1:39:43] So and then could if let's say a ruling came down, they decide the Clippers did all this stuff. [1:39:48] Could they then just say you don't get the fifth pick that's going to be part of the penalty? [1:39:53] I don't know. But so I think Indiana... [1:39:56] Indiana... [1:39:58] They don't have to get the number one pick. [1:40:01] But they've got to stay in the top four. So I like them. I like them being number one on this. All right. So I'll recap.

[1:40:08] From no karma points to a swimming pool of karma points. Yeah. [1:40:13] OKC, Dallas, Charlotte, Miami, Milwaukee. [1:40:17] Sacramento, Chicago, Brooklyn. [1:40:20] Golden State, Memphis, Utah, Washington. [1:40:23] Atlanta, [1:40:24] Indiana. [1:40:26] Having the most camera points. That's a good list. [1:40:28] It's a good list. Congratulations, Indiana. [1:40:31] Congratulations, Indiana. Good luck, Atlanta. [1:40:34] Memphis, I hope this made Chris Vernon and everyone happy that there was, you know, somebody repping for Memphis. [1:40:41] What does conspiracy Nick think would be the fishiest outcome? Last year, we hit the fishiest outcome when Cooper Flagg. [1:40:49] Went to the Dallas Mavericks. [1:40:50] I think it's Golden State getting a top four pick. [1:40:53] would be the one that would make me go, oh, yeah, if I was running the league, that's what I would have done. [1:40:58] All right, so Golden State certainly is the one that's best for the league. [1:41:04] There's no doubt about that. [1:41:06] It's like them just getting DeBansa. [1:41:10] who could play right away for them. [1:41:13] What about this one? [1:41:16] And I don't know, again, I don't know if they would do it, but maybe they would. [1:41:20] What about Brooklyn getting a top four pick and using that [1:41:24] as a trade for Giannis. Like that is... [1:41:29] Well, here's the thing with Brooklyn. They don't have their pick next year. [1:41:32] Thank you. [1:41:32] Because Houston can swap it. Oh, yeah. It's part of that weird deal they made. So they actually have to be good next year. So, yeah, Brooklyn would be another one. I'm not sure they're anxious to help out Brooklyn.

[1:41:41] No, that's probably true. Dallas could be the other one. It's like, hey... [1:41:45] You owe us for the rest of the Luca trade. We know you promised us one lottery, but it was actually two. Two lotteries to send Luca to Los Angeles. Just so you know, I just clicked SimLottery on Tankathon.com. [1:41:58] And the result was... [1:42:01] Milwaukee moved up to one. So that goes to Atlanta. Wow. And the Clippers moved up to two. And that goes to OKC. [1:42:11] That would not be great. [1:42:13] That's what just came up? [1:42:15] And the one that I just did, Milwaukee goes to Atlanta as one. The Clippers, which goes to OKC at two. Washington three. Utah four. Poor Indiana drops to five, and it goes to the Clippers. Oh, gamut of emotions for the Clippers. Gamut of emotions. OKC moving into the top four of this lottery would enrage people. [1:42:40] I. [1:42:41] It would be a catastrophe. I was on the air when Cleveland... [1:42:44] won the 2014 ladder and I kind of melted down for like a minute. Yeah, I remember. [1:42:50] I remember. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. This is the third time in four years that they won the lottery. Um, real quick. [1:42:59] Is it weird to you that it's on a Sunday? Yeah, I hate it. [1:43:03] I hate it. It's supposed to be Tuesday night or Wednesday night, right? Well, they're going to have, so it's a 1230 game. [1:43:09] Lottery after the 1230 Pacific, 330 Eastern game lottery. And then the next game.

[1:43:16] And I don't like that at all. [1:43:19] I don't like it either. I don't like it either. [1:43:20] I liked when it was the middle of the week and we could get content out of it. Yeah. All right, Nick Ray. I took enough of your time. [1:43:26] This was a true pleasure. Thanks for doing the karma rankings. Thanks for talking basketball with me. It was great to see you as always. [1:43:32] You know what? You as well. I'll tell Kevin Wilds. How about this? I'll tell Kevin Wilds you say hello. And you tell Joe House, who I've never met, but in my head, we're friends. I say hello. All right. We'll do that. All right. Great to see you. Thank you. Yeah. Bye. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Nick Wright. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. Don't forget about the new rewatchables we put up. There's something about Mary. [1:43:54] Don't forget about La Gata finally ended. The conclusion, the last seventh episode of the series is up, and you can rip through all of them now. I'm going to be back on Thursday with one more podcast. Can't wait. [1:44:23] We saw. [1:44:25] So I. [1:44:26] Thank you. [1:44:29] Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Get in a problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call [redacted government id] or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call [redacted phone] for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE.

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