An MSG Miracle, the Wemby Arrival Game, Tottenham’s Nadir, and 'Euphoria' Season 3 | With Joe House, Chris Ryan, Anthony Dabbundo, and Zoe Simmons

[00:00] For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. [00:07] Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required. [00:30] of Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. Call [redacted phone] to learn more or visit TrimphiaRadio.com. [01:01] . [01:06] The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new rewatchable on Monday night. [01:13] We did Borat. It was me and Kyle Brandt. I had a great time. We've been doing comedies all month. And it turns out it's, [01:19] kind of politically incorrect comedy month, because we did, there's something about Mary, [01:25] We did Tropic Thunder. We did Borat. And now this... [01:28] Monday, the next one's going to be Animal House, which is also on Netflix. They have a bunch of great comedies. Somehow we've never done Animal House. Probably the...

[01:36] the most influential modern comedy of the last 50 years, uh, [01:41] That is coming. [01:42] I'm really excited to do it. This movie's been in my life basically since I was nine years old, 10 years old, whenever I wasn't allowed to watch it. And I did anyway. So Animal House is next. [01:51] Go check that one out. For this podcast, [01:54] Joe House and I are going to react to game one. [01:57] Next. [01:58] Cavs, as well as rehash. We've had a day to sit with one of the great basketball games of this century, OKC San Antonio, game one. [02:08] I have some big picture stuff about it, and then we're going to talk about where that series might be going. So that's up first. Anthony DeBundo and Chris Ryan came on. [02:16] to talk about Tottenham potentially being relegated [02:20] out of the premier league, if they lose on Sunday, basically, um, [02:26] Soccer. [02:27] I'm going to start doing more of it on this podcast. I had a great time talking to them about that and the World Cup and a whole bunch of things. And then last but not least, [02:35] My favorite guest, I'm not allowed to pick favorites, but she is my favorite. My daughter, Zoe Simmons, came on because she just turned 21. And we want to talk about a bunch of TV culture and all kinds of things. And we're joined by a very, very special guest who had never been on the podcast before. [02:50] who has four legs. [02:51] So if you're watching this as a video podcast, I think you'll enjoy the third person on that segment. Anyway, it's all next. We're going to take a break. [02:59] Pearl Jam! [02:59] And then Joe Hass and I coming off game one. [03:03] The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The conference finals finally is here. We are down to four teams. I think you know it'll go down, take a shot with FanDuel.

[03:13] Get closer to the action. And as you know, I've been telling you for years, Fandle, the best place to bet the teams, players and plays during the NBA postseason. Build the same game parlay. [03:23] for a shot at a better payout, or try live betting and jump into the action after tip-off, or just follow me and my picks, because every once in a while, I'll put them on social. Download the FanDuo Sportsbook app. [03:34] Right now. [03:36] and play your game. [03:37] 21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call [redacted phone] or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. [03:48] I'm recording this part of the podcast a little after eight o'clock. [04:16] Tuesday night. House, this is the best 24-hour run of basketball we've had in a while. We had the incredible... [04:22] Spurs. [04:23] Thunder game last night and then the next game. [04:26] that looked terrible, and yet notice, even when the Knicks were down 22 with like seven and a half minutes left, [04:31] I never sent you the text. [04:33] Let's start early at three minutes. [04:36] Let's just get going because this is what the Knicks do. And by the way, this is kind of what the Cavs do too, but an incredible comeback. Jalen Brunson on an all-time heater down the stretch.

[04:46] James Harden, I think, started decomposing at one point. And the Knicks... [04:50] Did that [04:51] It didn't make up for the Halliburton game last year, but it at least made some inroads. [04:57] Yeah, I mean, the storyline here, are you not entertained? I mean, my God, the first two games of these finals, unbelievable. I have to give you a hard time. How, in the face of what Wemby did last night, was there no Bill Simmons content immediately thereafter? I never thought to have a live podcast last night. It was a game one. [05:22] It didn't have to be live. Something. I'm doing it with you. We're going to do it after. We're going to do it after we talk about the Knicks. The Wembygasm was last night I was covered. I mean, I smoked four cigarettes. It was like I couldn't. I hadn't changed the sheets. There was so much. It was outrageous. We had some good ringer podcasts today. I'm going to levitate in with some big picture stuff. Let's talk Knicks first. [05:44] Better win for the Knicks or worse loss for the Cavs? Always a fun game. I feel like this was actually a worse loss for the Cavs. [05:51] Because now they basically, I always say this, now they have to win five times in a seven-game series. [05:57] They shot their wad in all these different ways. I thought, I didn't agree with really anything the Knicks did for three quarters, but I didn't [06:03] They finally decided to just do five shooters down the stretch with Shamit. [06:09] And Kenny Atkinson, I think, had an ice cream headache or a brain. I don't know what happened to him. He just... [06:14] Kind of died on the sidelines. James Harden just getting torched by Jalen Brunson over and over and over again. He kept the two bigs out there. I don't know where Merrill came in, maybe three minutes left. I don't think we saw Struis at all in the fourth quarter. Yeah, that was the bizarre thing to me. That was a rock and a hard place game because you had to choose which side of the narrative coin you wanted to subscribe to. On the one hand, the Knicks, nine days off.

[06:44] the rust factor, the three-point shooting was abysmal for three and a half quarters. On the other hand, all of the numbers in the history of the NBA say that a team coming off of a Game 7 win with a short turnaround time on the road, it's very much in favor of the home team with the rest. And, you know, that's definitely the betting angle that you're supposed to... So somehow that got borne out because that's what happened and the Knicks somehow covered... [07:13] And yet, if you watched the game, you felt like the Cavs were in complete control. I was wondering... Complete and complete control. I was wondering three quarters in. I'm like, fuck, what do they do with this big lineup? Like, are they going to have to... [07:25] start Townsend Robinson next game? Are they going to have to match the bigs with the bigs? And then they went the other way. They went shooters- [07:32] And... [07:33] I think Mitchell... [07:34] I had him down... [07:36] After the third quarter... [07:38] with 24 points. So he had five points in the last 17 minutes of the game and just was not involved. [07:45] I felt like Harden had the ball all the time on one end, [07:49] And then on the other end was just constantly defending Brunson over and over again. [07:54] And, uh, [07:55] I don't know where Mitchell was either. [07:57] So that was your worst case scenario if I'm a Cavs fan. I have in the deep recesses of my brain, I'm terrified of James Harden in big games. I'm terrified of teams... [08:06] honing it on him and making him play defense. And then I'm also worried that there's going to be a little who should take over here. [08:12] which I thought they had solved, but I guess they didn't.

[08:15] We had another, oops, he did it again. James Harden, five main field goals, six turnovers. Five main field goals, six. How is that possible? How in this era can a guy have this many turnovers? [08:34] games where turnovers surpassed Mayfield. Well, he's old. I mean, he's old. That's what I'm saying. One thing I noticed the Knicks were doing with him, and I didn't understand why the previous two playoff teams didn't do this, [08:46] I don't really think he can go by anyone anymore. [08:49] And the Knicks where he does the thing, he does a lot of stutter steps like he's going to, and then he does the step back. [08:55] And I thought the last two rounds, everyone was falling for that. And then this, especially Bridges, who I thought was great tonight. Bridges was like, dude, I'm not falling for that. I don't think you're going by me. [09:05] And when you go and do that step back, I'm going to be right there in your face. And I just thought Harden had a lot of trouble getting going. Mobley was really good. [09:12] And then Mitchell was... [09:14] I had all these notes that I guess I just have to throw away about Mitchell after three quarters because – [09:19] I had this whole thing about [09:21] Is this Mitchell's moment? [09:24] First-team All-NBA guys who never made the finals, which is kind of a shorter list than you think. It's basically like Dame... [09:31] Nash, Paul George, C-Webb, Trace McGrady, Joel Embiid. It's less than 10 people. [09:37] And it was like, can he get off that list? Can he have like his, maybe this is it. [09:41] And the Knicks looked so dispirited. It just felt like...

[09:45] Um, [09:46] Maybe we read this series wrong. I really thought the Knicks were going to kill the Cavs in this series. [09:51] Well, the version of the Knicks that I thought was the advantage version was the first quarter where all of their points are coming in the paint. And that's true. They dominated points in the paint this entire game. And their ability, especially you made the good observation about Bridges and his defense on Harden. He just they have an advantage over Detroit. [10:21] He doesn't have any guards that could put any pressure at all on Cleveland's guards. But immediately, the Knicks made Harden and Mitchell uncomfortable. Now, I thought Mitchell was pretty awesome across the game, but it's the full Mitchell experience. So the fourth quarter. [10:36] Guess how many free throws he took? How many? [10:39] 1. [10:40] He was one for one from the free throw line. And this is the issue, right? [10:44] He ended up with three assists and four turnovers. But here's the thing, right? When you are... [10:52] in the midst of the run that the Knicks went on. And they waited about as long as they could wait. It was, you know, a historic win. It was 22 points with seven and a half minutes left. Like, this has happened five times in the history of the playoffs. [11:06] Right. But the true greats, the true greats, [11:10] The guys, the first team all NBA guys recognize what is happening and they go into their bag. Yeah.

[11:17] Right. They settle their own team down, settle down. They change the pace of what the other team is trying to do. You've got to get to the free throw line at that point. [11:26] You can't keep just chucking up threes, and that's what Cleveland did. [11:31] That's why Mobley ended up with 16 attempts. Right. [11:35] Eight three-point attempts from Mobley. [11:38] You know, [11:39] I just think blowing a 22-point lead, I don't care how great the crowd was. We'll talk about the crowd in a second. How... [11:45] Much of a heater Brunson was on. [11:47] 22 points is so many points in seven minutes. It's so many points. I felt like Atkinson was just this passive observer to the whole thing. [11:55] I remember, I've told this story before, but the [11:58] Celtics Pacers game seven in 2005. [12:02] So this is Ricky Davis, Paul Pierce, that team, and it was the post-Melee team. [12:06] Pacers. [12:07] And I thought that was one of the best coaching jobs I've ever seen by Carlisle that year. And he was like, he was still missing some of his guys, but they took a big lead. [12:16] And every time the Celtics even had a chance of coming, he was timeout, like, or like some sort of thing to stop it. And it was just disjointed from that point on. That Knicks run, it just felt like it was continuous. It was like watching a sports movie. Just felt like Brunson had the ball over and over and over again. They didn't really trap him until like two minutes left. And then the big thing was Towns had that terrible foul. [12:38] Where he has to pretend he can't believe they called it. It's like, you fucking pulled the guy, Towns. OG is inside the free throw line with six feet of space in front of him. And Towns is holding Allen. And I think that was to cut it to two. And then the Cavs went back up six.

[12:53] And I was like, wow, Talens just screwed up the game for them. [12:56] But then Bridges made a huge three. [12:59] And that like near the end of the shot clock too. And then Shamit made a massive three and all of a sudden it was tied. [13:04] Ben Harden made a really nice... [13:06] little James Harden foul line thing. Brunson came back and made it. We got to talk about how great some of that shot making Brunson. I mean, we've seen him do that. So you almost take it for granted. [13:16] But he had five holy shit shots during that run. He had like [13:20] opposite hand floaters off the glass. He had like high ones that seemed like there was no chance it was going to go in, but it did. He was in threes. [13:29] He threw us off the scent. He threw us off the scent. The second and third quarter, he was shit. They scored 23 points the first quarter, the second quarter, the third quarter. 23, 23, and 23. Well, the thing is... [13:42] And we're texting at the end of the third quarter. [13:44] about a live bet on the Knicks. Because we've seen this Knicks game... [13:48] 15 times this year, right? And we thought they had graduated out of it. Maybe the Hawks series and the Phillies series. Like this is now the new Knicks. They're using Townsmore. [13:57] But the reality is they played a bunch of games like this this year where they look like shit for three quarters and then they go on a heater. [14:03] And I think the crowd was waiting for it. [14:05] I was waiting for it. [14:07] Um, [14:08] But once it got to seven and a half minutes left, down by 22, it's like, okay, I guess maybe they missed the window. And then Brunson was just like, boom. And the crowd knew it. [14:16] They knew when it got to within 15, they knew it was happening. And I thought that crowd was a 10 out of 10. Kudos to everybody who was there.

[14:25] Though they were dying, they were waiting for any, just the slightest opening. And the fact that it came with seven and a half minutes left, just all they needed the Knicks to do was string together a couple of buckets. But I do... [14:39] want to pat myself on the back a tiny bit. For your last bit? [14:43] Yes, because at the end of the third quarter going into the fourth, what I texted to our thread, does anyone feel like the Knicks can make a fourth quarter run in this shit fest? What did I text you back? I said yes. [14:55] I'm staring at 10 and a half like it might grow a pair of boobs. That's what I wrote to our group. I'm staring at it. Direct quote from us. And then, you know, to Raheem's credit, Dream says, [15:07] You know what? [15:08] On Christmas Day... [15:10] We had a very similar scenario where, [15:12] Me and our boy, JJ Jastrzemski, tried to talk, Dream and JJ tried to say, no, don't do it. Don't mess with it. Yeah. You don't, don't. And then, and then by golly, the Knicks came all the way. And you reminded everybody, this is the Knicks. This is what the Knicks do. It's incredible. This is what they do. Oh. [15:29] With that said, [15:30] At the end of regulation, Sam Merrill. [15:32] Semi-wide open. [15:34] Takes a three. [15:36] It was down. Mike Breen gave it a half... He gave it a buff. Did you hear this? I rewound it to make sure I said it. Here's the mayor from three. But no, it's out! He said the buff! He said the double bangs. This was his first buff. He was going to bang it. He was going to bang it. And it really did. It went in and rattled out and just got the ghost MSG kicked it out. But that thing was dead center. You think the Cavaliers can lodge a complaint about Breen doing these games in MSG?

[16:06] the karma of Mike Breen calling a Knicks. He is the most impartial. He's brilliant, but [16:15] I mean, the karma, buh. Did he do the one last year, though? Did he do Halliburton last year? That would be, maybe he didn't. I don't remember. [16:22] Because it switches every year. [16:23] Uh, so Brunson ended up, what did he end up with for the game? [16:28] Did he have... [16:30] 38, but he had 36 after regulation. [16:34] And so... [16:37] I 42-11 run for the next at one point. So I don't know. What do we name this game? Is it the Buh game? [16:44] Is it the God Hates Cleveland game? [16:47] Especially a guy who hates Cleveland games. [16:49] I don't know. It's too much. It's an outcome where... [16:54] Uh, if you had shown this to us, this box score, oh, it went to overtime. That's cute. [17:00] You say, oh, Cleveland, good job. Good job, Cleveland. Good effort. Good try. So much worse than that. [17:05] It was Because you can't be up 22 Because they had this whole narrative about getting over the hump [17:13] We thought they revealed themselves on Friday night when they completely choked at the trick game and they were just awful. [17:19] Right. Then that game seven Mitchell plays one of the best games of his career. They toss their balls on the table. [17:27] And yet today they reverted back to who they were. 53s, by the way, 16 for 50. 53s, I don't love from them either. I just don't like that. 19 turnovers. I don't like it. [17:35] They have all the eight threes for Mobley. I just don't like it. And for three quarters, I thought they were doing everything right. Like even when they started doing the hacker Robinson, I was like, yeah, I kind of like this. Don't let the Knicks go back in the game. They definitely have an advantage inside. I mean, there is Towns was lost. They can't run him at the elbow. You know what? The way that the Knicks had so much success in the last series, they had the

[18:02] Carl Anthony Towns at the elbow. Did you see his turnovers? Yeah. And they were putting little guys on him. And the announcers, Jefferson and Legler, our guys, they were like, I don't understand why they don't put Towns on the low block and try to punish these guards. It's like, can you... [18:19] Yeah, we ask that question every time this happens. They never do it. He doesn't want to go down there. That's just what it is. So they got to unlock him. I thought they were way too Brunson-centric for the first three quarters. Fourth quarter they had to because that was the only way they were getting back in the game. But they felt very stagnant. Same old... [18:35] fronts and stuff and [18:37] The Mitch and Towns, I would consider... [18:40] Throwing that lineup out there together a little bit too. For Cleveland... [18:45] The version of OG also. First game back in, what is it, two weeks now? And that was another big Cleveland mistake. Two for nine. Guess who I'm leaving wide open in the last five minutes of the game and trapping off this guy, OG. [18:57] I didn't think his threes were going in. He shot that air ball in overtime. I didn't. Well, he didn't think they were going either. He didn't want to shoot it. He was like trying to pass him. He stopped taking the threes and he started driving in and to get to, you know, inside the free throw line, he was going for a floater. And that, I mean, he was going for a floater on the play that the towns committed the foul. Yeah. Um, [19:17] The crowd tonight. So this has been obviously the Knicks have [19:21] ignited the city. [19:23] this series and then the finals that they can get there are going to be among the hardest tickets in New York history. [19:29] Crowd was locked in today. Nobody left. There was a moment, I think it was after, maybe when...

[19:36] Shamit, whoever hit the game tie in three is either Shamit or Bridges. And they wide shot it. Cleveland didn't call timeout. And the announcers weren't even talking because I don't even think they could hear it. And they did the wide shot. [19:46] And people were just jumping up and down. It was like a walk-off baseball home run or something. Everybody was just so deliriously happy that they came back. It was a really great atmosphere. I kind of wish I had gone. [20:00] I think it would have been worth a 3,000-mile trip to be there for that one. [20:04] Game one? No, I'm just saying, I wish I'd been in the atmosphere of that. Yes, for sure. I mean, the Knicks fans are about as thirsty as it gets. Pretty soon you'll be there with A.J. DeBansa and Towns and Trae Young. [20:18] Maybe. [20:19] Keishon George, [20:21] Maybe. Why not? Why not us? Could happen. All right. So what do we think for the series? I'll give you some odds. Don't look. [20:31] The series odds right now. [20:34] Every time I go to FanDuel now, they send me to the... [20:38] prediction thing first, then I have to go round about around it. Come on, FanDuel. [20:43] playoffs, futures, [20:46] Okay. [20:48] Oh. [20:50] That seems high. [20:52] Minus 375 for the Knicks? [20:55] That sounds right. Just for winning game one, which they were supposed to win? [21:00] They had the, the, you, you said at the beginning, right? [21:03] Cavs have to win four out of the next, you know.

[21:08] Well, you got to tell us. [21:10] Is this it? [21:11] For the Cavs. [21:13] Is that a death blow? What, [21:15] No, I mean... [21:17] Do you think they could win this series? Would you... [21:20] Would you wager on the Cavs plus 310? [21:24] I didn't wager on the Cavs at the beginning of the series. Nothing's changed about my opinion on this. I think they're done. I think they had to win this game. [21:34] The single biggest difference to me is the return of OG, who got to the free throw line 10 times, even with all of the stuff he's coming in. Yeah. [21:43] It looked explosive, too. [21:45] Yeah, it's just a deep team. It's just, they have weapons in a lot of different ways. They can defend, you know... [21:53] with the best of them and the fact that they were asleep for two quarters after not playing competitive basketball against a team that just came off a game seven win yeah you don't it doesn't change my opinion uh overall of what this next team is all about and where i think they're headed [22:09] Rusty and lethargic. [22:11] I have more concerns about towns than I did three days ago, but I feel like they can... [22:16] Some of the stuff that Cavs were doing, am I wondering, the next series... [22:21] especially if they play the Wembley UFO. I think, I think, uh, [22:25] I think some of the tricks will be emulated. Okay, we've talked about the Knicks series enough. That was a great game. [22:31] Not as great as the game last night. We're going to take a break. We're going to take a break, and then we're going to talk about [22:37] One of the great games of the 21st century.

[22:40] Thunder. [22:42] Spurs. [22:43] Game on. [22:45] The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. We are halfway through the NBA playoffs, and they're getting better and better. Every possession matters. [22:53] Every bucket swings the game tonight. [22:56] is your chat to boost your bet because all customers get a profit boost [23:00] Tonight on Fando, so when the moment hits, you win bigger. Fando giving better payouts on same-game parlays, all NBA playoffs. [23:07] long. I'm going to figure out something for San Antonio OKC. [23:11] Game two, a series that I am obsessed with. I have a lot of thoughts on matchups, who might play. I think I can put together a good SGP for this. But lock in your bets, boost your odds, make the playoffs pay off with FanDuel. Official sport betting partner. [23:25] of the NBA. Head to Fando.com slash BS to get started. [23:28] FanDuel. [23:29] Play your game. [23:31] 21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fando.com. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call [redacted phone] or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. [23:44] This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. [23:47] You know what my favorite thing about the playoffs is? [23:50] I like... [23:52] And it's usually maybe a game four, might even be a game five. Game seven, everyone's nervous. There's a different level of energy. But game four, game five. [24:00] For one of the two teams, there's this realization with like five minutes left in the fourth quarter. It's like, uh-oh. [24:08] Our fate is suddenly...

[24:10] in real flux right now. Who's stepping up? What are we going to do? Let's calm down. [24:15] Can we rise to the moment or are we going to shrink from it? It's as great as opening up [24:20] of Michelob Ultra, a nice cold one, crisp, refreshing, the ultimate prize. Plus, as the official beer partner of the NBA, they're giving fans a chance to win courtside tickets, [24:31] custom merch, and more. [24:34] You could be at one of those games when the pressure rises. Miklo Bultra, superior is worth playing for. [24:40] Enter now. [24:41] at Michelob Ultra. [24:42] dot com slash. [24:44] Quartz said. [24:46] Michelob Ultra Courtside 25 to 26, no purchase necessary, open to U.S. Residents 21 Plus. Begins on October 1st, 2025, ends on June 30th, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules at MichelobUltra.com slash Courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, and prizes and details. [25:04] All right, House, the arrival. [25:07] The UFO has landed. [25:10] Wemby has emerged from the UFO. [25:12] He's seven foot seven. [25:14] And he's here to dominate the league. [25:16] I... [25:17] Had a Tiger 97 Augusta kind of feeling. [25:20] watching the game last night, like that something was changing for real. The sport was being appended. [25:26] in a real way. And I know that's going to sound stupid if they end up losing this series, but [25:30] I don't even think the winner or lose the series doesn't matter. [25:34] He was doing something last night that I just, [25:37] felt like something... [25:38] The sport had shifted. And I'm not the only person to say that, but it did bring me back to Augusta,

[25:44] And all of a sudden Augusta, [25:46] It just felt small for Tiger. Remember? We were like... [25:50] Fuck, this was like the hardest... [25:52] weirdest course we have. And he's like just annihilating it. What's happening? [25:57] Everything Wemby was doing last night, he took out SGA. [26:01] SJ was a mess. [26:03] He completely took out Chet to the point that it was almost debatable whether he should be out there. He took out Hartenstein. They had to take out two minutes into the game. [26:12] He changed 50 shots, 41 points, 24 rebounds to blocks. He had a 32-footer to tie the game. He had a game-tying shot in the end of regulation. [26:21] And did this all on the road. Did this with the fuck you energy from the MVP. Not getting that. Shout out to Hakeem in 95 against Robinson. It was hard not to think about that moment. I sent you the YouTube clip last night. And just backed it up in all these different ways. And I think. [26:36] For me, I'm not. [26:38] It's that he walks the walk and then backs it up. [26:42] and does shit that we've just never seen. And it, you know, [26:45] Talking about arrival games... [26:47] MJ's 63 point game. [26:50] Kobe in the 2000 finals after Shaq fouled out in game four. [26:54] LeBron in 2007, the 48 special against Detroit. [26:59] Curry had that unbelievable 2013 game one against the Spurs, which everybody forgets now because there's been so many great games, but, [27:06] When he goes into the next round against the Spurs, I think he has, I don't know, like 10 threes or 40 plus points and just was going against this great Spurs team by himself.

[27:18] Felt like on that level, like it was a before and after with this game. You agree with that? [27:23] Of course. And the numbers back it up. I mean, you have to go all the way back to 1970. [27:29] to find a performance where a player 22 years old or younger can, [27:35] has a combination of 40-20. That's Kareem. There's only two players in the history of the game at that age to have a 40-20. That's Kareem and now Wemby. Yeah, and you have to use as your reference point, [27:52] all of the great playoff performances, the highest leverage performances to create the context. And [28:00] If we didn't have that Pacers comeback last year against the Knicks, that just incredible out of the... The Halvern game, yeah. You could say, like... [28:10] You know, so I was in my text thread. [28:12] greatest game one in a conference finals ever? [28:17] I have the list. I made a list. In the conversation. [28:20] Thank you. [28:21] Here's what I wrote down. You tell me if it beat these games. [28:27] I went to this game, so I'm a little biased. 2018 Game 1 Finals, the J.R. Smith game. [28:32] Thank you. [28:33] I think that was the last great game. [28:35] That game was eight years ago because LeBron... [28:38] He's going against this [28:40] juggernaut all-time Golden State team. [28:43] and he's basically taking it to him by himself, and physically dominated them. I think he had 50 or 51, whatever he did.

[28:50] Cleveland lost. Cleveland lost in OT. That's the problem. I'm just talking about as a game. That game is fucking awesome. That game was off the charts. Awesome. I understand what we're doing. Duran and Curry at their peak and the Warriors still really good. That game was awesome. [29:09] The Halliburton Miracle last year, that was a game one. [29:12] And then... [29:13] The Iverson 2001 finals against the Lakers. [29:18] I think those are the most important four for this century for different reasons, right? Iverson really needed that one in the legacy of... [29:26] In the big picture. It was the only time he made the finals. He took, that was the best Laker team. And I think that was probably the second best. [29:33] team of this century. [29:35] And he just went toe-to-toe with Shaq and Kobe and beat them, did the step over. [29:39] Shaq had a 40-20 that game. We were reminded inside the NBA this evening. So I would go those four games. [29:48] And then the runner-ups... [29:51] So, [29:51] 2008 finals Celtics-Lakers game one, the Paul Pierce wheelchair game. [29:56] So even that became the, and it was also a really good game. [29:59] But just that the Celtics and Lakers were in the finals again, and the hype leading up to that, I think, is there. [30:05] Dallas, San Antonio, 0-3. [30:08] Um, [30:10] Dirk had a 38-15, Duncan had a 40-15, and this was like, we thought this was going to be the start of a Dirk versus Duncan run. [30:17] And it ended up, for a variety of reasons, not getting wet. But that game was awesome. I don't want to sleep on that. 97 finals.

[30:24] Chicago, Utah, Malone wins the MVP, and then Jordan hits the game winner. [30:30] And does the... [30:32] Yes. That's got to be on there. 95 finals, Orlando, Houston, Nick Anderson, the free throws, the four free throws. I wouldn't say that was a great game, but if you're talking drama and memory, it's a [30:43] It was one of the most memorable games of every season. I remember watching it. I know right where I was. I could put myself right back there right now. Same year, Indy New York round two was the Reggie eight points in nine seconds. [30:54] Okay. [30:56] 92 finals, Chicago-Portland. MJ hits the 6-3s, 35 in the first half, does the shrug. [31:02] That was game one? Yeah. [31:04] And then the 91 finals Which is another one that's like an awesome game But it's 35 years ago Bulls-Lakers, Magic vs. MJ For the first time [31:15] Magic hits Perkins for a three to go ahead. MJ has a jumper to tie it. [31:20] And it does the Mike Breen bar and rattles around, but doesn't go in and they lose. [31:24] And I think in the last 40 years, those are the ones... [31:27] And I could go send these. Incredible list. But those. Tell everybody, go on YouTube and watch some of these games. Please go watch those. But I really think this century, those four, 26, 18, Gold State, Cleveland, the Halliburton game and the Iverson game. I think those were the best four. Usually game ones aren't great. We've had some fun, weird ones. Like, remember that year Phoenix beat San Antonio in like 03, 02, somewhere in there with Marbury? Yeah. [31:52] Marbury hit like a half court shot. Yeah, that was crazy. And it was like the one great Marbury Phoenix moment. Maybe it was 2001. I don't remember. 2003, whatever it was. We've had some good ones that have,

[32:03] Celtics-Bulls 2009, Rose's rookie year was good, but [32:07] Um, those are the best ones. Usually the series, there's like a feeling out. [32:11] And this one didn't. And it was one of the things I wrote down was like, [32:15] House, like the speed of that game. [32:18] Compared to what normal basketball is, like you watch a game like tonight and it just feels like it's a podcast that's 1.0. [32:25] Versus last night, the game was at a 1.5. [32:28] Well, part of that is because these teams are familiar with each other, this iteration of these teams. And what the Spurs did that's so remarkable over the course of the regular season, they used each of these matchups with Oklahoma City as referendum games for them. Yeah. Like, this is why that organization... [32:47] is heads and shoulders above all others in the league. It's why the Spurs have occupied rarefied air for 35 years, 30 years, let's say. Well, they've also had some... [33:00] Some fucking luck. No doubt. [33:02] No doubt. They won the Wemby lottery and the Duncan lottery. And the Duncan lottery. They had three teams pass on Stefan Castle, including your stupid team. [33:11] And then Dillon Harper at 2. [33:14] All that is true. [33:17] And yet they are, they are, they've, [33:20] routinely maximized that good fortune they really have good fortune and they jump through the opportunity door and it's apparent that this season coming into it they're like every time that we play oklahoma city we are going to get in that ass we're going to it's an experiment we're going to be physical we're going to run sga off the ball i mean part of the thing you you gave wimby

[33:44] credit for some impact on SGA. The answer to that, to me, is yes, but it was a masterful game plan. It was everybody. It's the physicality of those guards. They double him. They run him off the ball. And what that creates is open shots for Alex Caruso. [34:04] That's fine. [34:06] Because Caruso knocked a whole bunch of them down. And Oklahoma City could have won. But I think the Spurs are like, if we lose to Alex Caruso, we'll be right back. [34:15] That's okay. We are willing to live with that outcome. That's, by the way, what the Cavs should have done today with Ann and Obie. [34:20] I mean, the thing last night, [34:23] Wemby's point guard, because De'Aaron Fox doesn't play, Castle mostly plays point guard. He's 11 turnovers. He played hard. He did a lot of good things, but 11 turnovers. He was trying. And the other ball handler, Dylan Harper, who had an awesome game, and I want to talk about him in a little bit. [34:41] But he's 20 years old. And they're in OKC. [34:44] And at one point, there's a couple points where OKC's like, here are our best defensive guys. We're just putting them all out there. Good luck. And it felt like they couldn't start their offense within 40 feet from the basket. It felt like they couldn't even figure out how to get Wemby the ball, even though he's 7'7". [35:01] 25 feet from the basket. [35:04] And Wemby still pulled off the game with some help from his guys. There's a couple of big threes. Like Champagne hit a huge... [35:11] Three in the corner. [35:12] I thought Vassell had a couple really big plays. He did. Castle never lost his confidence, even with all the turnovers, which I really appreciated.

[35:23] And, you know, [35:24] I thought the defense... [35:25] The fact that I wrote down in my notes... [35:28] Um, [35:30] They basically... [35:31] They basically forced OKC into this lineup. [35:35] that I'm not sure they're going to not be able to do the rest of the time, where they basically had three guards with J-Dub, with Chet. Yeah. Because... [35:44] They have to figure out a way to pull Wemby away from the basket. [35:47] So they're just going to, like Hartenstein, I don't think can play in this series. [35:51] I'm not positive Dort can really play big minutes in crunch time in this series either. [35:56] Because whoever they have who's not a threat, Wemby's just going to guard that guy and [36:00] help off them. So, um, it's going to be a chess match, but I feel like the, [36:04] the chess has already been played to some degree. [36:07] We'll see. The questions for me is, [36:09] In the next game, are they going to just say Fox and Harper... [36:13] shoot threes until your heart we're going to double team wendy we're going to trap them we're going to make them give up the ball and if you guys hit threes god bless [36:21] I would assume that's the move for them. OKC, I think I already made their moves by the second half of that game. [36:28] I don't know. There are some things it feels like OKC can do to free up SGA. [36:33] Like, you know, we're going to see some innovation yet to get, [36:38] Well, I mean, there'll be some unique screening kind of situations. You know, we're going to see a version of SGA, I imagine, that's akin to the way that Steph gets free. They run him off of, you know, Pinda. He's running the entirety of possessions. No, but that's not totally his game, though.

[37:00] I was wondering, are they going to stagger him for when Wemby's out of the game? You try to have SGA in the 10 non-Wemby minutes and stuff like that. [37:09] That also sounds like a fine way of doing it. But what they have to get comfortable with and what SGA has to get comfortable with is he's got to be a mid-range shooter now. Because you just can't go... [37:22] go to the rim. You can't get to the rim. And then you can see Oklahoma City and [37:29] palpably, dramatically impacted. It's not just the blocks and the altered shots. It's that the lane is no longer available. So you have to become comfortable in the mid-range. And that is... [37:43] A version of basketball that you and I watched, we grew up with it, but that's not how they play modern basketball. Yeah, there was some good stats. [37:52] DL43, David Lay, that's his Twitter account, though, was talking about how... [37:57] SGA drives basically 19 times a game during the season and passes 38% of the time. [38:04] But last night, 30 drives... [38:07] And you pass 54% of the time, right? [38:10] So it's not a huge thing, but it felt that way watching it. Like he was trying to get to spots and there was always Wemby. I had this. [38:17] Reader, listener sent this great email about how we should nickname, change Wimby's nickname to Jaws. [38:24] Because when the people decide to go in the paint, it's like when the swimmers go in the water and it's like, nah, nah, nah, nah. And they're tripling and just – and Wemby's just kind of looming around with the shark costume. But it does feel like he's changed –

[38:42] I don't know how SJ snaps out of it. [38:45] But SJ just didn't seem as comfortable. He actually seemed the most comfortable just doing step back threes. [38:51] So that could work. That could work. I mean, he is the MVP of the league. We are going to see some wrinkles out of this [38:58] This Oklahoma City. This is part of why this series feels so rich. It's because the strategy element of this, I expect to see something new every game. [39:09] But we're not going to see the same game twice, I don't feel like, in this series. Well, you know what else we might see in this game, this game too? [39:17] is, hey, can we start roughing up Wemby here? There was a clip that went around this morning about, [39:23] Chet stepping on his foot during a free throw. Did you see that? No, I didn't see it. They were next to each other boxing out. And right when the ball went up, Chet just stepped on his foot to try to trip him. [39:33] And I wonder if they're going to start doing a whole bunch of stuff like that and trying to get in. I said, one thing with San Antonio, they don't really have an enforcer. [39:39] Well, this is like if you're going to play Hartenstein, he has six fouls. That's the point of Hartenstein being on the floor is the six fouls that he brings to the table. It just unleashes Wemby on the other end. He can just do whatever he wants. But you're right. [39:54] Maybe use them to [39:56] beat him up. I think ultimately... [39:58] Chet's going to have to figure out a way to defend him because – [40:01] The problem with putting the guards on him, which sort of worked and got Caruso going, [40:06] But then you give up all these offensive rebounds. Like he had nine offensive rebounds last night. [40:10] So you're making it harder for him to get the ball.

[40:14] But then on possessions, you're giving them like an extra six, seven, eight possessions a game. [40:20] And I don't think that's worth it. [40:23] Big picture on Wemby, we weren't there for Wilk. [40:26] We were there for [40:28] We're old enough to remember 70s Kareem with the goggles. [40:32] And then obviously 80s cream when he wasn't really the same. [40:36] But, [40:37] This does feel like what that must have been like when you just went to a game and Wilt was just destroying everybody. Sure. We've had some great centers over the years that we've certainly loved talking about and loved watching. [40:50] But when somebody can do it on both ends like that, [40:54] and just completely destroy the psyche of a crowd. [40:58] Um, [41:00] End. [41:00] We didn't talk about the 32-foot shot yet, which was one of the great moments of the century for basketball for me. Like an all-time holy shit from the exact Steph Curry spot. [41:12] Did you think it was going in? Because I actually did. [41:16] I don't know why. It happened so fast. It was both an ooh, and I was actually, I had my kid with me, because I grabbed him. I'm like, you've got to watch this. You're not permitted. This is history. You're going to be pointing to this as you grow up as something significant. And we both, I had an ooh. I was like, when he pulled up, I go, ooh. And I was like, oh, what are those? What are those?

[41:46] Unbelievable. I was looking for it because he kind of likes that shot. The problem was he was so far away. He was so fucking far away. But I saw him trailing, and I was like kind of just watching it. But then when he pulled up, I thought he was going to stop and realize he was too far. And he just... [42:02] Just fired it. [42:03] Somebody took the clip of Steph doing it with Breen's double bang and synced up the timing with Wemby. So they're on top of each other. And it's really whoever did an extraordinary job. It's basically the same spot, right? It is. It is. You can see that's that's what makes it so impressive. [42:24] Is it like Stefan and Wemby are in the same spot on the floor? I went back and I read the piece that I wrote after LeBron's 48 special against the trait. [42:34] And... [42:35] It was like this real-ass potential thing for all of us. And I thought I actually kind of liked what I wrote. I was like, all right. I kind of captured that one a little bit. But it was basically like, here's this guy with all these tools – [42:46] And we're hoping it's inside him and we're watching game after game, week after week. [42:51] kind of hoping something like this will happen, and then it started happening. Now, he's doing that against [42:55] An 07 Pistons team that was getting a little long in the tooth. The league's pretty weak that year. There's only like five teams that, you know, the Cavs made the finals that year with one of the worst finals teams we've had. [43:06] But it was a moment and it was like a really good sign when it happened, like, [43:11] oh, this guy, he really might have it. This might be a real Jordan challenger. This is the first real sign we have that,

[43:18] There's some real specialness here. [43:20] I already felt that way with Wemby. [43:23] And even we were texting before the game, the MVP thing, it was like notable because of the history of what's happened in basketball with this with Jordan and Malone in 97 and with Hakeem and Robinson. It was like, this is interesting. He's not going to like that they gave SGA the MVP. [43:39] And I think that's my favorite thing about him about anything is I think he's a – [43:44] real fucking dick. He's a competitive motherfucker. I do love that. Did you see that video of him watching the ceremony? He was pissed off. [43:53] Yes, yes. I mean, and all of those historical parallels that we just eat up. We just can't get enough. Yeah, this is what we love. [44:01] And we get the benefit. I mean... [44:04] There were... [44:05] a half dozen different ways for the Spurs to lose that basketball game. Sure was. Including the 32 foot three. [44:15] And that was the first overtime. They were down three at that point. It wasn't even regulation. It was an overtime. I thought they were going to lose. I did too. Because of the minutes. [44:28] Yeah, because we haven't seen it out of him and the impact of No Fox, what that meant, you know, the extra minutes on Harper, the extra minutes on Castle and the turnovers. I mean, what did Harper and Castle combine for turnover-wise? [44:47] I, they were, [44:48] discombobulated. I kept thinking back to that Denver, that Saturday Denver

[44:53] San Antonio game that was awesome that went in overtime. Jokic's last great game. [44:57] The game that earned Jokic number two on my MVP ballot. [45:00] Um, [45:01] I thought Wemby got tired in the overtime of that game. You could see it. So when I was watching the game last night, I kept thinking he was going to wear down. [45:10] And he just didn't. Whether it was the adrenaline of what was going on or the fact that [45:15] They hadn't played for a couple of days, but I never thought he looked that tired. The Spurs guys after the game said... [45:21] He had no legs. We couldn't believe he took that. [45:24] I never felt like he was worn out because I think when he gets worn out, he starts falling down and you can kind of see it. I didn't feel that way last night. [45:31] I felt like he showed some fatigue, but I think... [45:38] The Oklahoma City couldn't be, can't be, we'll see how it goes, as physical as Minnesota was. So like, I, you know, I think it was a little bit of a breather for him against Oklahoma City because he just didn't have to take on any of that physicality. I mean, the size of Minnesota was... [45:58] was legit. And it was the only way for them to, to really compete was to lean on him, to push him to be in his space. And they could rotate, uh, go bear and Randall in, in that role. Um, and, [46:11] Oklahoma City doesn't have that. [46:13] Now. [46:14] The other thing with Wembe, [46:17] I don't say this lately. I really feel like he checks all the competitive boxes.

[46:23] Even when I've seen him in person, I don't feel like he's... [46:27] mailing it in, [46:29] Doesn't give a shit. Like, I feel like he really cares and he's really competitive all the time. No, honestly, the way Jordan was, that was one of the things we loved about Jordan. [46:37] Jordan always cared. He always put... [46:40] put the proper level of competitiveness and respect on the game and really like, just wanted to cut everybody's throat out. And it, [46:47] It does feel like Wembe is wired like that a little bit. And for a center, that's a really rare treat. [46:52] That's the accelerant. This is why we're in this position where we're having to revisit our priors on how quickly can a young team come together and really properly threaten. The history of the NBA is littered with upstart teams, upstart young teams who have the talent but don't have the basketball IQ, the wherewithal, the reps under these high leverage teams. [47:19] moments. And I wonder if... It's the 77 Blazers is the only team that did it. [47:25] That's really it. [47:27] I wonder if they were accumulating those reps over the regular season. How about this? This is what I mean. Did Wemby, was the Olympics his version of those reps? I got that email a few times from people because it's not like, oh, he's never tasted his own blood. It's like he actually did it in the 24 Olympics. [47:42] That was the first time he took some haymakers. Steph gave it to him, and he got to understand what it was like. But this is why I was wondering aloud about this idea of each of those games against Oklahoma City in the regular season as refereeing games, as measuring stick games. And they kicked ass all season long. They did not take nights off, to your observation, your point. That's right. They didn't. That competitiveness, and it wasn't just Wemby. It was that whole Spurs team because Wemby missed a whole bunch of games.

[48:12] you know, won the number that they won. [48:15] And it was like 25 games over whatever their win total, 20 games over what their forecasted win total was supposed to be like. [48:23] I said Sunday. I genuinely thought they were going to win this series. And I think Wemby... [48:28] I just think we're going to be coming to grips with what's happening here over the course of the next four weeks. I was on one text thread where they were like... [48:37] said like, [48:38] Oh, this doesn't mean he's the face of the league and doing all that stuff. That's like, I didn't. [48:41] I don't know what face of the league means. [48:43] I just know that this is... [48:45] the biggest appointment TV viewing [48:48] that the league has had since Curry and the Warriors in the middle of 2010s. [48:52] And this doesn't happen very often. We weren't sure if it was going to happen again with anybody we had. [48:58] And we always try to put the guys that we have in position [49:01] You and I love watching Joker. Not everyone loves watching him. [49:06] Wemby appeals to every single person because of how tall he is and how skilled he is and how unusual he is and how much he gives a shit. [49:14] And I think this will end up being probably the most watched series ever. [49:18] non-finals that the league has had at least in 10 years. [49:22] And it definitely passes the mom test. I'm sure whoever's mom or dad that doesn't follow sports probably brought up the Wemby game to you today, right? Or to whoever's listening. [49:35] It's just the way it is. And people who missed it, they won't miss tomorrow night. They won't miss the Wednesday night game because it is absolutely appointment TV. We have the reigning MVP of the league in SGA. That's a controversial figure. The worm has turned a little bit. You got to get 50-50 on foul merchant out of SGA. They went calling him yesterday. The refs were great yesterday. I liked him on both sides. You and me both?

[50:05] thought it was fine. I thought it was a very fair game. But you put that alongside a player that none of us have seen. You had Jamal Crawford last night say, we've never seen a guy like this before. We can't really process it. I mean, I have my quibbles with Reggie Miller. Oh, really? [50:29] Oh, God. Let's leave it alone. There's no reason. He's a nice guy. [50:35] Dylan Harper. [50:37] Okay. [50:38] Let's do it. I watched a game yesterday with my daughter, who's coming up later on the podcast, actually. [50:43] who was half paying attention all the time. [50:46] And at one point she turned to me and said, [50:49] Wow, you really love Dylan Harper. Is he like your favorite non-Celtic? [50:53] And I said, I think he might be. I think after Yoko Chikuri... [50:57] I just love Dylan Harper. I love how he plays. I sound like Collinsworth. I just love that kid. I just love Dylan Harper. I just love that kid so much. I was just in awe of what he was doing yesterday. [51:11] Where they're like, hey, Fox isn't playing. We know you're 20. [51:15] And we know we're going against [51:17] The team that has the best collection of defensive guards probably in the last 15 years. [51:21] Do you think you could give us 40 plus minutes tonight and do a whole bunch of shit and maybe go ISO every once in a while and go grab some rebounds? Oh, and jump in the passing lanes and get, what do you have, seven steals? And get big rebounds in traffic. Oh, and don't get tired, even though you should be like a sophomore in college.

[51:38] I thought what he did was out of control. And if anything, I was texting people during crunch time in the OTs, like, as you know, as the castle thing was really going sideways, like, [51:50] Why don't they run stuff for Harper? Why don't they run... [51:53] High pick and roll for him with a shooter. Like, I want to see... I think OKC would have trouble... [51:58] defending the head. He had to get the ball across half court in the first place. He ended up being the guy a bunch of times. Yeah, I think they really need him in this series. What he did yesterday, I thought I was just [52:10] I'm so impressed. [52:11] And I'll say this, Tass. You know I don't say stuff like this lightly because you've known me for almost 40 years. [52:17] To me, we saw Kate in college – [52:20] And... [52:21] The first five years, you and I were, I didn't even have an internet call when he got traded the first time. [52:28] And you and I were so apoplectic that they traded him Dallas. [52:32] We were like, [52:33] How do you trade Jason Kader? That's insane. How do you ever in a million years do that? I think of him. I think of Chris Paul in the mid-2000s. [52:43] We're talking about top 50 guys ever and some of the best young guards we've seen in our lifetime. [52:50] And I think he's going to be as good as those guys. I really do. I think he's going to be like a Hall of Fame, multiple first-team All-NBA type of guard. [52:59] Well, the cool thing is if you had Harper stock when, when they drafted him, Hmm. [53:07] An important element of what's going to propel that stock into...

[53:12] return on investment, double-digit strata. [53:17] is how free he can play basketball with playing alongside Victor Webb in the aisle. [53:22] He's the perfect guy to play with him. He's absolutely... [53:27] perfect. That's exact. He only shot one for seven from three last night. I know. And it would have been, but he got to the free throw line. I mean, he's the multi-faceted, 11 rebounds. Like, how is he getting double-digit rebounds? Well, that's what the team needed out of him, and he was able to drop down and grab and... [53:49] The poise... [53:50] going to the hole. This is what was so remarkable. Poison physicality. [53:55] There you go. That's it. That's right. Exactly. He took every bump. He took every bit of, and this is why the Spurs are so live in the series. It's because... [54:07] I think they can out physical Oklahoma city. [54:10] They took the blow that Minnesota represented. Minnesota was a wake-up call. Game one of that series was a wake-up call for these Spurs. Welcome to the playoffs, gentlemen. Now we've actually started. [54:23] Yes. And to their great credit, they recalibrated. They're like, oh, okay. Well, here's what we have. Here's what we can do. And they could handle that physicality. I think Minnesota did them a great service in preparing them for this series. And they showed up ready to get in that ass. And they did. They were in it all game long. They were physical with SGA. Now, the one thing you said

[54:53] throughout the balance of this series. And in fact, let me just ask you right now, what's that whistle going to be tomorrow night, Wednesday night? [55:00] The line is the exact same. It's the exact same line, which suggests that, what, is Fox playing or not playing? It'll be a game time decision. [55:11] I would assume he's playing... [55:13] He should play. And I would assume. It would be better. I really think this series is going to get small, and it's going to be the three guards against the three guards on OKC, whoever they are. [55:22] Um, [55:23] J-Dub and Vassell and Chet and Wemby. And that's just... [55:27] That's just what we're going to do. [55:29] And it's going to be an OKC will probably look at that game one and say, we should have won. [55:33] The Champagne-3 [55:35] Really hard shot, shouldn't have gone in. Jalen Williams, the double OT. [55:40] terrible shot he took with like 35 seconds left, that kind of rush shot. It wasn't necessary. He had like bad shots. I'm sure they looked at the tape and were like, we should have won that game. That was stupid. The difference is Fox is going to come back and Harper got a taste of it. [55:55] Harper now knows the speed. He understands like a three-hour game like that, that there's levels to it. You got to save stuff. [56:02] Um, [56:03] I look at Harper and I'm like, [56:06] This is the worst he's ever going to be right now. [56:09] Right over the next 10 years. [56:12] This is the worst version of him, and he's already awesome. And then Castle's 21. [56:16] That's the other crazy thing. [56:18] It's not, you almost look like Castle's like a 27 year old and he's 21 and, you know, botting through everybody. And he's one of the most physical guys in the series. I still think San Antonio is going to win. I thought that before the series, I think that after game one, I don't know how many games it's going to be.

[56:35] But I just think I hope it's seven. I want seven of these. This is an incredible matchup. [56:42] So the guys to watch in game two, [56:44] Number one is Chet. [56:46] I think this is the biggest game of his career so far. He's going to have a long career, and there'll be a lot more good ones. But I thought he just got his ass kicked in game one, and he's got to figure out. [56:56] He can't only have seven attempts. [56:59] I need to feel you in this game. I did not really feel you in that first game. I felt Caruso. [57:05] And then the other thing, which I mentioned before the series, and maybe it'll... [57:10] shake itself out with Hartenstein not playing as much. But they played 11 guys in the first half. [57:16] And that was a big thing I was worried about with OKC is like, do they know who their best guys are? Do they know what their best lineups are? I still don't think they totally know. [57:23] I think they have like eight guys they trust. [57:26] But I'm not sure he knows what should be where. And the Jalen Williams thing is a big thing to introduce out of nowhere in the third round. [57:32] And he took 25 shots. Welcome back, JW. Right. They were open. Get your 25 piece. I mean, he took two more shots in SGA. [57:43] I'm going to read you a list of the best 21st century games. [57:48] And you tell me, [57:50] was the game we saw last night. [57:52] I'll go game by game. You tell me if it was better or worse. [57:57] We just did the game ones. No, I'm going to best games. It was an incredible go. Go ahead. Fine. Just trust me.

[58:06] Okay. [58:08] Was it better than the Halliburton game last year? [58:13] I liked it better. Does that help, Eddie? That's the right answer. I liked it better. Was it better than this? You know why I liked it better? Because... [58:22] The Spurs were seven-point underdogs missing De'Aaron Fox, and they had every excuse in the book to not, you know, to just come into that environment on MVP night. [58:36] Right? And... [58:38] Just, [58:39] show a great effort. [58:41] And then let Oklahoma City do what they do, which is win by 10 or 12. I have it over that game. [58:47] Do you have it over game four 2022 finals, Curry-Curray? [58:51] Basically his legacy game. [58:53] That led to his fourth title. No. [58:57] Much more at stake in that game. [59:00] much more at stake. The leverage is so different. [59:03] So that's a, I'm going to make that a TBD because if San Antonio wins this series, I'm [59:09] I'm going to tell you right now, I'm going to have a hard time. [59:12] putting that game last night, a game one in a conference finals with a brand new team with the identity of the Spurs over any finals game, any legacy games. I think that's the right answer. I'm with that. [59:25] Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Game 7, Durant, foot in the line. [59:31] Damn. Pretty great game. [59:32] That was an awesome game. I think last night was better because I think the quality was better. Because that game had...

[59:38] Durant was great, but it had James Harden on one leg. There was no Kyrie. [59:42] Yep. [59:43] No, last night was better. [59:45] Thank you. [59:47] Philly-Toronto, Game 7, Kawhi shot that bounced way up in the air and went in. [59:52] Oh... [59:54] I think I got to give it to that Philly Kawhi. I think that one was better. I think that one was better. Yeah, that one. That game was unbelievable. It was. [1:00:03] The J.R. Smith game. [1:00:05] LeBron's 51. It'd be pride after that game. We didn't have any tears last night. No. [1:00:10] Game one finals, I think... [1:00:14] That's a really tough one. [1:00:16] That was like LeBron's last stand in Cleveland, basically. [1:00:20] That 2018? Yeah, that game won. LeBron by himself against the Warriors for two and a half hours. [1:00:26] Last night was better. [1:00:29] That game felt more... [1:00:33] 2016 game seven finals that beats this. [1:00:36] Come on, man. [1:00:38] The Clay Thompson. You just had to mention it? The Clay Thompson game. [1:00:43] Which is game six against Houston. No, game six, Golden State at Oklahoma City. [1:00:48] Oakland State down 3-1. I said Houston. I knew it was hard. Yeah. I knew what I was talking about. [1:00:57] you [1:00:59] It was Durant-Westbrook, not Harden. [1:01:01] We're old. We're allowed mistakes. [1:01:04] Clay Thompson gets on the heater right as the Golden State 73 win season is about to go down the tubes.

[1:01:11] It's a pretty great game. [1:01:12] Damn. [1:01:13] I'm going to give it to Clay. [1:01:18] I think that's the right answer. [1:01:21] San Antonio Clippers game seven, round one. I think this was better. [1:01:24] Even though that was a fucking awesome game that I went to, by the way. [1:01:30] 2013 game six finals, San Antonio, Miami. [1:01:33] the Ray Allen game. [1:01:35] There's no way that game was not better than last night. Yeah. Okay. All right. You're just trying to set a context here. I appreciate it. [1:01:44] Last one from the last 15 years. We'll have two more from the last 15 years. [1:01:49] The Bulls beating Miami to end the 27-game win streak, [1:01:53] Thank you. [1:01:54] was my favorite game that nobody talks about anymore. That game was fucking awesome. I love the wind streak. It's a regular season game. I love the wind streak. I wrote like a 7,000 word column about the wind streak. That was a great column. [1:02:05] The win streak was awesome. That'll never happen again. Nobody's ever winning 27 straight games ever again in the regular season. [1:02:13] I wouldn't say that. [1:02:15] That without road management shit's never happening. The Spurs might want to try and do that next season. [1:02:21] And then the last one I had was 2011 Game 5, Dallas- [1:02:24] Miami, which I went to. [1:02:27] Jason Terry hit the big three to end it. But that was like, [1:02:30] So not one, not two, not three, Miami Heat. [1:02:34] Just taking it on the chin in game four and game five, and the crowd was delirious. [1:02:39] I still think last night was probably slightly better. But anyway, those are the ones I had from the last 15 years.

[1:02:45] So we kind of had it slated somewhere in the middle there. [1:02:49] The thing is, if San Antonio wins the title... [1:02:53] And this was the best game of the entire run. I think that gains in significance, right? Okay. Okay. I'll accept that. Yeah. No pushback for me on that. [1:03:02] What was the best Tiger... [1:03:04] Holy shit, he's in our lives forever, Masters. Was that 2000? [1:03:08] Wow. Well, because, yeah, 2000. 2000 was that we're in trouble for a decade now. [1:03:15] We're not at that point with Wemby yet. We're in the 97 Masters area of Wemby. [1:03:20] Because it's an arrival moment. It's an arrival. Right? Yeah. This was the highest stakes. I mean, unless you want to use the Olympics... [1:03:31] as the highest stakes, the gold medal game, [1:03:35] France against the U.S., [1:03:37] Yeah, it was July 24th. [1:03:41] Yeah. [1:03:42] That was a pretty important game for Wemby. [1:03:45] But he's bigger now. He's stronger now. [1:03:48] Well, the greatest players ever. [1:03:50] all have a knack of coming through at a pretty precociously early age. [1:03:55] Even Magic won the title when he was age 20, right? [1:03:59] Bird won a title in his second year. [1:04:03] Um, [1:04:04] Kareem won in his second year. Russell won in his first year. [1:04:08] It took LeBron a few years, but that had more to do with the crappy guys on his [1:04:12] on his Cleveland team. Same thing for Jordan. But for the most part, they kind of start telling us who they are pretty early in their career. And I think he told us last night.

[1:04:22] would be my big takeaway. [1:04:24] But the Dylan Harper thing. [1:04:25] Long term, the fact that they have those two guys together with Castle as a third, [1:04:30] Can you believe we live in a world where they're... [1:04:33] Set up as better than OKC's already. It's like that would have seemed impossible a year ago. [1:04:40] Oh. Impossible. [1:04:42] I'm not sure it's better. What happens if OKC wins a series? Wendy would have to get hurt for it not to be better. [1:04:49] What if Oklahoma City wins this series four games to one? Because they go on a heater. I'll take Wemby, Harper, and Castle. [1:04:57] You take SGA and any other two OKC guys, which three would you rather have? [1:05:02] Well, when OKC has Giannis next year because of all of the picks that they have and all of the... [1:05:09] I mean, which OKC are we talking about? That's the other question from this series. What if they, if San Antonio thumps it to them, [1:05:18] is there some sort of move now? [1:05:21] Do they look at this and go... [1:05:23] Uh-oh. [1:05:25] I would. Five games to one? That's a feature, not a bug. They've played six times, these two teams, regular season and now one playoff. [1:05:37] And, [1:05:39] It's five games to one. Like, the evidence continues to mount. I'll just put it that way. I mean, I know a bunch of different times when they played, not all of the, both teams weren't their full, complete versions of themselves, so on and so forth. But, yeah.

[1:05:55] But San Antonio is hell-bent on sending a message. They are hell-bent on sending a message to Oklahoma City. They have it circled in red on their calendar, and we're just going to see. We're going to see how this plays out. Do you see yourself turning on Wemby at any point? [1:06:10] over the course of the year, over the course of the playoffs, I loved the comeuppance. I felt like it was a comeuppance when the Joker and Denver beat them on that incredible Saturday night game. It was like, this is a measuring stick game, and look how close you are, and yet [1:06:28] there's just one other level. Extra level. That level, unfortunately, included Aaron Epping Gordon not [1:06:38] being hurt, god damn it, I'm going to be bitter about the existential crisis that Denver is in now because, and I mean, I'm not [1:06:47] I'm mad. [1:06:48] denigrating Gordon. He just couldn't get healthy in the playoffs for two consecutive years now. And we're losing out on this joker moment. And that Denver team was supposed to be better. Because none of us like Kareem. We can be honest about that. [1:07:04] I've never, you know, it's not in my DNA to hate on him. No, we respected him, but nobody was like, I'm a huge Kareem fan. [1:07:14] I love Kareem. Kareem's my guy. [1:07:16] I think there are Lakers people that would say that they love Kareem. Yeah, because he was on their team. [1:07:21] Yes, that's right. You talked yourself in a lake in Gilbert Arenas for four years.

[1:07:26] Gilbert Arenas was fucking awesome for one season. He sure was. [1:07:30] No, I think [1:07:31] Usually with the tall giant guys... [1:07:33] Eventually they become the villains and, [1:07:36] This has happened to pretty much every tall guy who's ever played basketball. I don't know if it happens with them. [1:07:42] Because he's so different and he's so much fun to watch and he's so competitive. [1:07:46] I think if somebody cares as much as he cares on top of the talent, it's really hard to root against that. [1:07:52] I think there's an undercurrent out there. Ask Jacoby. Oh, I know there's an undercurrent. I don't know. Well, there's the xenophobia thing that's happening, too, where people are like, oh, what's happening? We're losing our sport to the internationals. [1:08:08] Nah, I mean, that part I don't care about. I do like the tough guy stuff. This is why I enjoyed what Minnesota did to him in game one. And what Lou Dort's going to be doing to him in game two. [1:08:24] Through the entire series. I mean, they baited him into the elbow to the throat. That could have been a suspension. I'm glad it wasn't a suspension. But they won two games by being physical with him, knocking him out of his cadence. Lou Dort's going to do the Bret Hart when Bret Hart put the metal vest under his hockey jersey when he was against Bill Goldberg. Bill Goldberg speared him. But Bret Hart had a metal vest on. I think Lou Dort's going to wear that tomorrow. [1:08:54] Thank you. [1:08:55] It's going to be Rammie Wemby. That's what the Fowls are for. That's what the Fowls are for. I can't wait. I think tomorrow, I think this whole series...

[1:09:04] It's like, you can't miss a minute. There's no excuse. [1:09:07] Tell your wife, tell your girlfriend, tell your spouse, your boyfriend. Leave me alone. Whoever doesn't want to watch basketball with you, they can fuck off for three hours. This is a must watch every minute. We don't know when we're getting another series like this. It hasn't happened for eight years. [1:09:21] Don't... [1:09:22] sleep on how impressive these two coaching staffs [1:09:27] are and can be and the innovation we're going to see. It's the diametric opposite of what we watch with Cleveland. It's like Kenny Atkinson, but after a cup of coffee? I just can't. I still can't unsee that Detroit. I'm so glad it's over. [1:09:43] I'm sorry I lived through it. This is the diametric opposite. These are two staffs that are so goddamn innovative. Every game's going to look different. Jamal Mosley back in action with New Orleans. [1:09:55] Congratulations. Jason Kid fired today. [1:09:58] Saw that. That was one of the more... I forgot to predict that on a podcast, because the combo of Masai taking over... Masai wants his guy, which is understandable. But then Jason Kidd... [1:10:10] who, [1:10:11] During at least the last year, Luca was there. [1:10:14] was complaining about him to everybody. And there's no way he didn't know about that trade. And there's no way he wasn't trying to Jedi mind trick people into trading him [1:10:22] And he definitely knew about it before it happened. [1:10:26] And then the trade happened. It's like, I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know what happened. They were definitely going to. [1:10:31] They're going to Joe Pesci him at some point. [1:10:33] are out is like he was hoping for a front office kind of thing. Like maybe there was a job last summer. He pushed him to, you know, he definitely wink, wink the trade. And then four months later, it's like, yeah, I'd love to check out this next thing. That was definitely one of the possibilities out there. Well, maybe the Portland guy will hire him at a discount because he's already getting paid by somebody else. That guy fired 70 people today. I saw that.

[1:11:01] What the fuck is going on? Like, what is this league? The three most recent owners. Now, you can, you know, [1:11:11] take Ishbia and say, okay, classic new owner syndrome, came in, tried to make a splash, tried to throw a team together and build excitement. I want the best players. And he hired two consecutive coaches with some pedigree, guys that had accomplished some things in Vogel and then Bud. But I don't [1:11:35] He spent money. He was just misguided. [1:11:38] And then he listened to good basketball people and the team that they feel that the season was like, okay, this is, this makes sense. That's competitive. It's like for that. Well, [1:11:45] The Dallas, it's just like Vivek, the Dallas situation is, [1:11:51] With those people and whatever scheme that they have up their sleeve with it, we want the casino and – [1:11:58] You know, we sanction Nico getting rid of our best, the antagonism towards the fan base. And then this fucking guy comes in to Portland. [1:12:07] And he's like, I'm not paying splitter. [1:12:10] uh, he coached this team to, to unprecedented outcome. They made the effing playoffs. And then the, you know what? Oh, uh, [1:12:20] congratulations playoff team. I'm getting rid of two thirds of the infrastructure that, that we, we have here in a city. That's a, it's a captive audience, right? Like the only other pro they have, um, the women's team, the women's WNBA team selling, they have a soccer team. They have a soccer team. So I'm, you know,

[1:12:40] Like... [1:12:41] The Trailblazers are... [1:12:43] tied to that community and by the way that community is subsidizing your fucking stadium bro the state and the city approved you know 350 million dollars of renovation and he's going to come in and run the organization like what what to what ends hockey strategy [1:13:01] His NHL strategy. He's trying it out. [1:13:04] I don't know what he's doing. [1:13:05] I don't understand why you spend this much money on a team and then you try to cut costs all over the place. It's so weird to me. [1:13:13] What message are you sending to the fans? What's the purpose of doing it? It's not a company. [1:13:20] Go ahead and run it like a company. You're asking people to pay their money. [1:13:25] The revenue is what the Bulls do. He's looking at what the Bulls do. And it's like these dumbasses are paying for their tickets every year. [1:13:32] Maybe I'll do that. I won't pay the luxury tax. I'll save money all over the place. I'll be profitable. [1:13:37] it's very cynical. The built in subsidy that comes from the national TV contract, they're all buoyed by it. The franchise is only going to move in one direction because, you know, these rights continue to go and we'll see how, what, what packages the NBA innovates itself into in terms of streamers on, on, you know, that whatever the cup and these, these sets of games or whatever over the next 10 years. But the, [1:14:01] The 80 billion, what is it now? 70 billion that's left, 65 billion that's left on this rights deal ensures a trajectory for the value. And he paid what he paid. They got a valuation out of it.

[1:14:14] He was a good soldier in that respect, right? What was the valuation? Four and a half billion bucks. That's what he paid. I don't know if it was the valuation. Yeah. Right, exactly. But that's the problem. All these people are spending, they're spending that kind of money. [1:14:29] But if the team isn't profitable, then they have to zag the other way, which raises the question, why did you pay for the first place? [1:14:35] Yeah, and it's set in the form for the expansion teams that we'll see if they get the money or not. [1:14:40] We have to go. [1:14:42] We have to go. On that note. Congrats on the most boring PGA tournament we've had in a while. Made up for it by Wemby. [1:14:50] Great winner, Aaron Rye. Everybody's the people's champion. People's champion. Great guy. There you go. House, you're the people's champion. Thanks for staying up with me. We're going to take a break. We did it. [1:15:00] We're going to come back with CR, Chris Ryan, Anthony DeBundo. We're going to talk some soccer next. [1:15:06] So all playoffs long, I've been looking through the lines, the props, the futures, everything. Sharing my favorite picks from FanDuel Sportsbook. [1:15:14] on my Twitter feed, I share. [1:15:16] A lot of times, [1:15:17] A straight up bet, parlay, I'll do some add-ons. [1:15:20] And I'm looking at this game, too, OKC San Antonio. [1:15:24] Um, [1:15:25] I think there was some really instructive lineup stuff. [1:15:28] that my guess is OKC is just going to have to go smaller. [1:15:33] And then conversely, San Antonio might have to play more guards as well. So I want to try to figure out the way I kind of, [1:15:39] same gamer that, uh, [1:15:41] steers towards some of the [1:15:43] some of the shorter players shall we call them so i will have a a final pick on that um

[1:15:50] Before game two on my Twitter feed, still debating who's going to win. [1:15:54] I think every one of these games is going to be close. You look at game one, if Caruso doesn't hit, [1:15:59] 10 shots, he makes like 6-7 threes. If he doesn't have basically the shooting game of his life, I think [1:16:06] San Antonio would have won that game by 20. And that was with Castle turning the ball over 11 times. No Darren Fox. So I feel like all these games are close or San Antonio is going to win. So I'm probably leaning San Antonio plus the points. When I bet, I bet with Fandle, a brand I trust. It's easy to build my NBA bets on Fandle because I know. [1:16:23] I'm getting great ads, payouts on my parlays, boosts every day. I'll get my winnings instantly. [1:16:29] Play your game. [1:16:30] This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. [1:16:33] Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. [1:16:40] New Whole Foods Market Peach Apricot Rose Italian Soda. [1:16:44] Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango yuzu chantilly cake. [1:16:50] But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales signs storewide.com. [1:17:01] and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. [1:17:09] This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it.

[1:17:22] Presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head. [1:17:26] Backyard tradition now available behind the counter. [1:17:29] Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boreshead, committed to craft since 1905. [1:17:38] All right, CR, Chris Ryan is here. Anthony Dabundo here as well. You can hear him and listen to him and watch him all the time on the Ringer Gambling Show. And this is his time because basketball NHL playoffs, [1:17:50] Tennis. [1:17:52] Although we lost Alcaraz for Wimbledon today. Wimbledon. [1:17:55] World Cup's coming. [1:17:57] Champions League. And then I just have so many soccer questions that I know nothing. So I'm like, I'm just going to bring two smart guys on the pod who follow soccer and they're going to tell me stuff. [1:18:06] Let's start here. Tottenham, [1:18:09] Bye. [1:18:10] Might be out of the Premier League. I shouldn't be laughing. I had my second kid, and I just fell off with them, and I apologize. But – [1:18:17] So they lost today. [1:18:19] Explain the stakes to Bundel on Sunday. Walk us through everything we have to look forward to. When is this game going to be on? What's going to happen? Can I wager on this? Walk us through it. [1:18:30] So Tottenham are two points ahead of West Ham with one match to play. And all 20 teams play simultaneously on the final day, 11 a.m. Eastern. So 8 a.m. Pacific Sunday morning. A little coffee and football. Tottenham are at home against Everton, who have nothing to play for, but I'm sure would love to play spoiler. [1:18:50] West Ham host leads who also have nothing to play for Tottenham just need to draw. If they draw,

[1:18:56] they will be safe. However, if they lose and West Ham wins, then Tottenham, one of the 10 richest teams in the world, one of the six richest teams in England, and one of the biggest clubs and historic clubs in the sport, will be relegated to the second division, which, as a Spurs fan myself... [1:19:12] is an existential crisis that I've never felt as a sports fan in my life. Our American teams have bad years. We're like, okay, we'll get them next year. This is not something I've ever experienced. So now I'm kind of terrified. So CR, what's the history of this? What's the worst example of this ever happening? Honestly, well, one of them is Leeds. So Leeds, like who flew too close to the sun about, I guess, would that be back to 20 some years ago, went down and it took them forever [1:19:42] like fully stabilize themselves as a premier league club in the last couple of seasons. Um, [1:19:47] The one silver lining to this that I would give to Bundo is that we have recent history with clubs like Aston Villa and Newcastle going down and then coming back up. Tottenham has like too much money to fail. Ultimately, like they'll lose some really good players. It's going to be tough that they have essentially the crown jewel stadium or one of them in the entire country. And they're going to be hosting like really small clubs if they go down. But I don't think it's done deal yet. When I watched West Ham, [1:20:15] the last West Ham match, I was like, that club looks like [1:20:19] fully on its knees. [1:20:21] But Tottenham really needed this one today. And I think it's probably all the more painful that Chelsea beat them today.

[1:20:27] So this is as much drama as we could possibly get on a Sunday, other than if the actual title was at stake. Yeah, it would have been cool if City had won today just for last day final stakes. But yeah, Arsenal is now officially the Premier League champions as of today. [1:20:43] which is an even bigger buzzkill for us, as Spurs fans, your biggest rival could win the league and you could get relegated in the same year. [1:20:51] It's like the worst year imaginable for us. So Devonda, what is the NFL NBA equivalent of this? [1:20:58] Everything that's happening right now, would it be like if the Sixers were in danger of getting relegated? Like how big of a team are they? [1:21:04] I don't even think there is a comp. I was thinking like the New York Giants maybe. [1:21:11] It's not the Cowboys, but the Giants or the Chicago Bears. [1:21:15] Just being out of the NFL for a year. It would be honestly a good, a good one would be the Red Sox have to go to triple a baseball for the season while the Yankees are coronated as world series champions. [1:21:26] Oh my God. [1:21:27] I can't even imagine. For Arsenal and Tottenham fans, that's what the rivalry is, except it would be like if it. [1:21:32] if they were in the same city and they just hated each other, if they were the same part of the same city. [1:21:37] So from a bragging rights standpoint, can you come back from this? [1:21:42] No. Yeah. It would take multiple generations. I mean, look, Arsenal had a holiday that they used to call every year St. Totteringham's Day. They would celebrate it every year when they finished above Spurs. And for 20 straight years, they did. And honestly, as a Spurs fan, the year we finally broke that, it shouldn't have mattered, but it really did. We finally were able to have a run of dominance. And for five or six years, Spurs were the best team in North London. That has dramatically flipped now the last three or four years,

[1:22:12] Tottenham haven't been relegated in this era of the Premier League. It hasn't happened to the club since the 70s. And then since the Premier League was founded in 92, they've never been relegated. So this would be about as bad as it gets. And also a huge deal. [1:22:24] Like CR said, you don't know what the team looks like next year. They're not going to be able to recruit players. They're going to lose all their good players. If you're a good Tottenham player, why would you want to stay when you can go play for another better team? It creates a bit of a snowball effect down the hill here that could happen for the club. [1:22:41] I'm so fascinated in this and I wish I had gotten more fascinated sooner because I would have really enjoyed the, I first remember mid season, like, Hey, they might get relegated. It's like, there's no way. [1:22:52] They have way too much money. But to be in that crazy stadium they have playing second league games, I don't even, I can't even, it breaks my brain, much like Wemby's 32.3 foot three broke my brain last night. You know, and it's not dissimilar from that where it's like a great reminder of why sports is just amazing to watch. Where it's like, for a couple of years, it felt like maybe the gap was getting too wide between championship and Premier League football. The money was getting too distorted. [1:23:22] have teams that came up and went right back down. And in some ways, some teams actually modeled their success in [1:23:28] by getting up for a season to get Premier League money, getting the parachute payments going back down, that it was its own kind of money ball in a sense. There are clubs like... [1:23:37] Ipswich or West Brom who might even have said to like, oh, this is how like our model for our success. It's not supposed to happen at Tottenham. You know, like this is Tottenham was.

[1:23:47] a couple years ago, knocking on the door of the top three, four in the country. And they built this enormous stadium and mortgaged a lot of their future on this stadium. [1:23:57] And now they have to, you know, they're gonna have to figure out a way to pay for it with like no walk coming to town. Unbelievable. They've also financially built a team. [1:24:06] around the club. Everything off the field about Tottenham is great. The books look great. Everybody's happy with the business, the stadium, all that stuff. And it's come at the expense of they had the same guy running the team, Daniel Levy, who's been running the club for 25 years. He just departed. The club became so big to the point where he wasn't doing a good enough job overseeing the actual soccer team, the buying and the selling of the players. And they just let the transfer strategy completely rot. And they embraced the bad kind of analytics that got [1:24:36] a lot of bets on a lot of players that didn't have upside that maybe they thought they did. And now they're left with a pretty rotting core of untalented young players. So is there a villain? Like, who are the Spurs fans? Who are they mad at? They would probably point to, I think some Spurs fans would probably point to Thomas Frank, who managed the club at the beginning of this season and was a really heralded, [1:24:58] Hiring. He had come over from Brentford. He played smart. [1:25:05] football, which was tactically astute. And he had Brentford, it was a really pretty small London club, punching way above their weight. And I think people thought it was a pretty logical hire. [1:25:14] And it just went so disastrously and so poorly. And then, to wonder who was the manager in between Frank and Deservey?

[1:25:21] Igor Tudor. Very short-lived run. This guy who's supposed to be basically an emergency room surgeon, and his expertise is to keep them up. And he shows up, and I think he was gone, what, in 19 days? How long was he there, right? It was less than Liz Truss. I think it was like 40-something days. This is one of the first Liz Truss mentions on Bill's Pod. This is great. And now they've got this guy, Roberto DeZerbi, who came over from – he was coaching in France at Marseille, [1:25:51] electrifying football, but it just might be too late. And, you know, these guys are coming in, it's like hiring a coach in any other league midseason. It's like, you're not practicing all the time. You've got games every like three days, pretty much. And now it's really just a like, [1:26:06] all hands on deck. Sunday's going to be nuts for that. So is... [1:26:11] What are the stakes for the players on the team? Right? Because if this happened to like... [1:26:16] I don't know, the Chicago Bulls. Josh Giddey would care that he was down in the G League for a year and he would have no way of getting out of his contract. Can all of these guys get out of their deals? What happens? [1:26:26] That's the thing. It's a little bit of a black box. You don't really know... [1:26:30] Now, a lot of the lower ranked teams, when they sign contracts with those teams, the players will get some kind of relegation. Yeah. Yeah. [1:26:38] Clause. But [1:26:39] When you're negotiating with Tottenham, are they still making sure to cross the T's and dot the I's to make sure that there's clause in there? So we don't entirely know yet. It's not entirely public. Just how many players can leave. However, they do have still multiple world-class players. Christian Romero, who's going to start for Argentina this summer. Mickey Vandeven. James Madison, who's been a Premier League champion in the past. There's plenty of players in this team that...

[1:27:06] Could... [1:27:07] go and play in other Premier League teams or other countries and be very, very successful there. So those guys are going to want out and you can't just, [1:27:15] Hold them hostage. [1:27:17] So it's going to be very fascinating to see what happens this summer. They're also going to want to sell high on whatever. I mean, if you call it selling high because they've been relegated. So their value... [1:27:26] on a player-for-player basis is probably lower than it's ever been. But they'll probably try and sell high to mitigate some of the financial losses they're going to experience. From having no fans for a year? And the money, the TV money. There's something to be said for... [1:27:41] I've seen, there is history of teams going down and like, it's almost like, um, a cleanse. You know what I mean? Like we have to get. [1:27:49] all the bad blood out. Maybe we get some of these contracts out. We're going to immediately be these runaway favorites to go wire to wire to win the championship next year. I mean, Tottenham in the championship, [1:28:00] is insane. So I would assume that they will probably have [1:28:05] a pretty glorious run in the championship where they they kick ass all season and their fans, the ones who show up, I don't know if they'll be like a full capacity. [1:28:14] Tottenham Stadium, but it'll be like [1:28:17] fun you know what I mean it's just gonna be weird because you're in the game nice to win again you know yeah [1:28:21] So this is Red Sox and then AAA. [1:28:24] Yeah, basically. But you did ask, Bill, like, who is at fault here? Daniel Levy is the first name. Johan Long, who's the new sporting director, he's the second name. But this is not a one year issue. And I think that's the one other problem. They finished 17th last year.

[1:28:38] They had the most bizarre season in the past. [1:28:40] where Ange Pastakagu was their manager. They finished 17th. [1:28:43] And I, [1:28:44] They were never actually in danger of getting relegated. 18th is relegation because the gap was pretty big. But they barely won any games the second half of the season. They put all their eggs into the Europa League, which is a secondary competition. They won that. [1:28:56] They won their first trophy in... [1:28:59] 18 years to 17 years last year. [1:29:02] And then they had to make a decision on the manager. He just won you your first trophy in 17 years. But you were awful most of the season. They fired him. And a lot of people had mixed opinions on that decision. He's probably looking down smiling at the moment at the fact that he might be relocated. And it's Pasta Coglu. So for the people that don't know this, that are listening, I wrote a whole giant column about trying to pick up Premier League team, I think in 07. It was before my second kid was born. [1:29:27] And I really tried to get into it for a couple of years. And I watched a lot of soccer and my daughter started playing and I, [1:29:33] I actually did follow it. [1:29:35] And then I just couldn't keep up. There was too much sports. There was too much parent stuff. [1:29:39] It is funny, CR, that I picked what seems to be the perfect team for me. I think I really would have enjoyed this Tottenham ride the last... [1:29:47] 20 years, I would be losing my mind right now if they're about to get relegated. [1:29:51] Yeah, you should also maybe have chosen Liverpool in the first place so you could see where all of John Henry's money was going. [1:29:56] Yeah, that was the runner up, but I think they had had a little too much success when I was trying to figure it out. I wanted... [1:30:03] I wanted a team that [1:30:05] they were going to rise up and exercise demons, all this stuff. And it just didn't happen. Yeah, there's nothing like Rafi Devers getting traded and me being able to text you and be like, thanks again. Yeah, seriously. It didn't really work out, though. Liverpool just spent the most money they've ever spent on one player the same week that Rafael Devers was traded. Unbelievable. That's why we all want him to sell. So West Ham, what is the NFL-NBA equivalent to them? Like mid-level? That's a good question. I think of them more like a Chicago Bulls.

[1:30:35] historically really well supported club. [1:30:39] They... [1:30:40] I don't even know if they've ever they never really had a Jordan era, although they have been great in the past historically, but they have moved into the London Olympic Stadium out of Upton Park, which is where they moved into, you know, this giant cavern of a stadium. [1:30:59] And have been pretty bad for the last couple of seasons. I think they did. They made some noise in the conference league to Bundo. I can't remember. They won the conference league. They won the conference league. The third tier European competition. Below the NIT level tournament in Europe. But if they go down, it's actually equally catastrophic. I mean... [1:31:18] Their owners are embattled. They've got a lease on this stadium that their fans don't like going to. And they don't have nearly the talent pipeline. I don't think the Tottenham doesn't. You know? No. No. [1:31:29] They don't have the resources either. I mean, they're a mid-table financial club with more history than that. But you mentioned the stadium thing. [1:31:37] I went to London Stadium last year. It is not a very exciting place to watch a game. They don't get great crowds. The noise is kind of just... It's got a running track that separates the stands from the field. So it's just like... Oh my God. I went to that stadium for the 2012 Olympics. I can't believe that that's where they play. Yeah. And Upton Park was famously very loud and a tough place to play. And they just haven't had that. And they've done a similarly bad job with squad recruitment. They've recruited a lot of players that don't really fit together.

[1:32:07] and none of them have worked. But since David Moyes left, it's been a steady decline. So this was the biggest Premier League story this year. Was there something else? [1:32:14] I mean, Arsenal winning the title for the first time in 18, 22, 22 years. Yeah. That's the big story. I think the reason why maybe people who are outside of the internal like the Arsenal fandom, like I was funny, I was just recording Wait a Second with Concepcion. And he was saying that he was going to London soon. And I was like, Oh, for the parade. [1:32:34] He's like, what do you mean? I was like, Arsenal just clinched the title. And he had like kind of a stroke when I told him that. But, you know, for Arsenal fans, I think it's been incredibly rewarding. And I used to have a lot of affection for Arsenal as like a neutral kind of like I liked watching them play. But this season has been pretty... [1:32:53] It's kind of like what happened to the Thunder, where it was like they were everybody's darlings a couple years ago. Oh, are they flopping? No, but they've scored a quarter of their goals have come off of quarter kicks. I have a comp, CR. I have a comp, and a lot of people in my community got mad at me for this. They are the Eagles. Oh, man. [1:33:10] They are the Eagles. Like the 2025. Yeah. They literally are essentially boring to watch. [1:33:19] They win with their elite defense and their goals this year. Like the main difference between them and their main title contenders was that they mastered the art of the set piece. And they built what's called a meatball where they just like block the goalie out and then they send the ball in and they're bigger and taller than everybody else. So they just score all these headed goals of set pieces. And look, credit to them. Don't hate the player, hate the game. But they're not a fun team to watch. So it's like when you watch Caruso and Dort like foul four times in a possession. It's like, well, you can only really call one foul.

[1:33:49] like, we'll just do it everywhere. Well, CR, you know I'm a big set piece guy. [1:33:53] for real I really feel like it's the underrated part of soccer the czar of the set piece listen my daughter who's coming up later on this pod we've spent 17 years of watching her on soccer teams and as you get older there are always these teams it's like the secret sauce and they figure it out [1:34:10] And they get like one free kick goal, one corner kick goal, and they win two nothing. And you're like, what just happened? We dominated possession the whole time. Anyway, I like the set piece. That's Arsenal. And that's honestly, it's creating a larger question about the World Cup this summer too. [1:34:25] How is that going to be officiated? Because the ball was in play less this year in the Premier League than it's ever been. [1:34:31] Setpiece goals were up. It's not even just corners and free kicks now. Teams have guys. Brentford has a guy whose main job is that he can throw the ball over his head 40 yards. And they just make sure to bring him in so that he can, you know, whatever side of the field they're on, he comes in and throws the ball 40 yards into the penalty area. And then they just scrum around. It's not the most exciting. When you think of the beautiful game, you're not thinking of that. A lot of people watched the Premier League this year and were like, eh, there's something kind of missing here. [1:35:01] a Champions League semifinal between Bayern Munich and PSG that happened a couple weeks ago. Electric. It was like shooting like drugs right into your carotid artery. It was like, I was like, oh, this, I've missed this. [1:35:15] this is what this sport's supposed to be. This is so electric. And then you go back and watch guys who are just basically like fouling each other on set pieces on their way to a title. It's kind of a bummer.

[1:35:25] So Champions League, the final... [1:35:29] Tupundo, did you make a pick yet? [1:35:31] Yeah, it's funny. I think it's a toss-up. And the betting odds have PSG as a favorite. This is the classic clash of styles. PSG have way better attackers. [1:35:41] But when they played last year, Arsenal was right there. I think Arsenal's very alive to win it. They're not, again, it's not the sexy pick. Even Victor Wembenyama weighed in. He was making fun of Arsenal's play style. Said, of course, PSG. Of course, he's French. But he was saying, you know, nobody wants Arsenal to win except for Arsenal fans. It does feel that way. [1:35:58] As the numbers nerd, though, I do think they're pretty even teams. CR, Premier League title and Champions League in the span of a month. That's impressive. Yeah, it would be really like. [1:36:08] a really significant achievement for them. And for Arteta, the Mikel Arteta, the manager for Arsenal. It's been the other big headline coming out of the Premier League season. If since you asked like that a couple of minutes ago is this, we found out is going to be the last season that Pep Guardiola manages Man City. So he's been there for, what is it? [1:36:26] 13, 10 years, something like that, like, [1:36:29] He's won an obscene amount of titles, like in terms of Premier League titles, FA Cups, Carabao Cups. [1:36:36] Over that time period. And it kind of marks the end of an era. In the Premier League. [1:36:41] Do we like Arsenal fans? [1:36:43] I love many Arsenal fans. Jeff Chow's an Arsenal fan, right? Ian Wright is an Arsenal legend. What kind of personality type is an Arsenal fan? Are they the most popular fan base in America? I think there's a huge crossover between Arsenal and Knicks fans.

[1:37:00] Oh, that's enlightening. That makes sense. I feel that too. [1:37:04] Who is our least favorite fan base right now? [1:37:08] Well, my answer is still going to be Arsenal. [1:37:11] That's because my phone has been just off the hook. And what am I supposed to say? I mean... [1:37:16] I picked them before the season. I told you guys it was going to happen. You can't throw it in my face. They still will, of course, as they should. What about you, CR? What's your least favorite fan base? I think as a Liverpool fan, Manchester United fans are my least favorite fan base. [1:37:28] I remember when I was doing that exercise, [1:37:31] I really was intrigued by Newcastle. [1:37:34] But part of the exercise was I need to go – [1:37:38] If I go overseas for a game, what would be a fun trip? [1:37:41] in Newcastle a lot, but I really liked how... [1:37:44] kind of tortured. There's a fair amount of speculation. So Newcastle in the intervening years, they were heavily invested in by the Saudi PIF. [1:37:54] And now people are speculating that [1:37:56] something similar could happen to them that happened to live. [1:37:59] Oh, yeah. Well, it won't be as catastrophic, probably, but they are looking for outside investment. It looks like they are trying to unwind their... [1:38:08] World Cup starting... [1:38:11] What are we down to a month? [1:38:13] Last week, less, less, three weeks from Thursday. Yeah. Um, [1:38:18] Dabundo, this is the greatest summer of your life? [1:38:21] I'm very excited. But greatest sports year of my life. I was talking about this with Shield a couple weeks ago. We just had the PGA at Aronimic. I was down there on Sunday. We've got all-star game in Philly this year. It's a great year for Philly. But then, yeah, the World Cup, the Winter Olympics were great. I'm not sure we'll have a better sports year. However, that could change on Sunday. If Tottenham gets relegated, I do not feel like this is the best sports year of my life. Have you checked any of the resellers to see what those World Cup tickets are going for in Philly yet? They're dropping.

[1:38:49] Are they dropping? They are now. [1:38:51] Okay. I mean, we didn't get the best slate. Have you looked at the Philly slate, CR? Yeah, it's not that great. It's not the sexiest slate. Ivory Coast, Ecuador. That's going to be like the dark horse battle. But other than that, we got a pretty mediocre slate. Dabundo, you know about CR, right? [1:39:04] World Cup bigamist. [1:39:06] leading two separate lives. It's like those lifetime movies where the person has the separate family. What would be my Netflix title for you? World Cup Bigamist. [1:39:17] That would be it with a picture of you with like a jersey that has two different logos on it. That's right. So who did you root for on Black Friday in 2022? I don't, I can't recall. [1:39:26] Did you give a nice little golf clap when it ended in a draw? Honestly, he's not going to say, but he's like probably 60-40 England. [1:39:34] Honestly, it's not that hard to be a 6-0. If you're rooting for a team that has a chance... I don't really like the USMNT, honestly. That's the thing. That's what he's talked himself into, is... [1:39:44] I don't like how we're run. I don't like our style and country. I don't like our youth program system. [1:39:49] I'm rebelling against this. I was introduced to the game through his perspective, through his lens. I always enjoyed the drama around the England national team. I support it. You don't have to apologize to us. But when you're a sports bigamist, there's always a chance the two teams are going to play and you're going to have some real reconciling to do. [1:40:09] I don't think that will be this year because... I don't think that's going to be a problem this year. I don't... It doesn't seem like... [1:40:14] I saw Rob Stone this weekend, actually, who's obviously have been involved in the World Cup. And I was...

[1:40:19] pushing him to get me excited about [1:40:22] the American team and... [1:40:25] He tried. I felt like he was going through the motions. And it just feels like even though everybody seems to agree, it's one of the more talented teams we've ever had. [1:40:34] And we have all these good American soccer players. Nobody seems to think they're going to do that World and World Cup. So you agree with that, Dabundo? [1:40:40] Well, I will say they got some bad news because their best center back went off injured. [1:40:45] Crystal Palace over the week. So if he's out, [1:40:49] they have no good center backs. They're already at a problem where they only have one. You need this. The second one is going to be 38-year-old Tim Ream, who's looking a little old for MLS. [1:41:00] And so the defense looks problematic. The goalie situation is the worst it's been in my lifetime, and the defensive situation looks bad. However, the good news is their star attacker, Christian Pulisic, [1:41:11] He has not scored yet in Serie A in 2026. So he's doing great too. A lot of excitement for Team USA at the World Cup. Brutal. Who do you think is going to win? [1:41:21] This is one of the hardest ones for me to pick in a long time just because of... [1:41:28] The unique nature of playing outdoors in America in the summer is going to, I think, [1:41:33] sweat down some of the veteran teams. So I think... [1:41:37] I am leaning... [1:41:40] France? [1:41:41] But I don't really know. I mean, France is just so talented from like one to like, they could, a second team France could probably make it to the last four.

[1:41:52] You know, like, [1:41:53] So, DeBondo, that's what I was looking at, too, because I think Wemby's going to win the NBA title. [1:41:58] And I'm a big believer in the cluster. [1:42:00] theory and him winning the title on American soil, followed by France, followed by all of us wondering how we let this happen with France. And we thought we got rid of them a bunch of times over the years. I made fun of France on a pod. I got a long email from somebody who's like, hey, we've been there for you for like seven wars. What the fuck? Yeah, Lafayette. That got really, really bad. Lafayette did not all that for nothing. Sorry. But yeah, I do wonder if there's a cluster theory. Who do you like for the World Cup? [1:42:26] I mean, if you just lined up the team, France is the most talented. Like, I don't even think it's debatable. And by the way, if you're doing narratives, too, Keelan Mbappe. Talk about a guy who kind of needs a big World Cup. Yeah. [1:42:37] Because PSG might win a second consecutive Champions League since he departed. Look, ultimate Ewing Terry. [1:42:43] Real Madrid is exploding on his watch right now. There are 40 million signatures from Madridistas to get him... [1:42:52] out at Real Madrid. They're not very happy with Kylian, even though he scores a lot of goals. But yeah, I mean, France is the most talented team. Spain, you know, Laminia Mall is their best player. He's not going to be healthy for the start of the tournament. He's got a leg injury that he probably won't be 100%, and you never know with those. I actually like CR's England a lot. I like that they have a real manager who has tactical know-how this time, unlike Gareth Southgate. But again, do I trust the English in the American

[1:43:22] It's going to be quarterfinals, semifinals, and it's a penalty shootout. [1:43:27] It's hard to project out when you know that's looming. I think that there's a couple of interesting storylines going into the cup. One of them is, Dabundo just alluded to, that there's a couple of really good managers working in this one. Obviously, Pocatino is managing the USMNT. He comes from, among other places, Tottenham. Carlo Ancelotti is managing the Brazilian national team. I think this is his first time as an international manager, [1:43:52] But he... [1:43:53] Just win shit. [1:43:54] a lot and I would keep an eye on Brazil even though they've got kind of a chaotic roster. [1:44:00] And Thomas Kuckel, who's managing England, is pretty tactically astute. So there's a lot of interesting stuff happening in that department. It's probably the most talented group of managers we've ever had at a World Cup. You don't often see a lot of the elite club guys go do international. And a lot of them are just like, yeah, I'll go take my shot at the World Cup. Why not? [1:44:18] Any weirdness for England, considering it'll be 250 years since we sent them the fuck out of here, CR? Sent them packing? Think it'll be weird to come back on an anniversary or no? That never comes up. It's not going to come up at the pregame? What if they play on July 4th? They're definitely losing, right? Yeah, they'll be in the back of their head when we push them out to Bundo. Can you give us a dark horse, please? Yes. [1:44:41] U.S. is 55 to 1 to win the World Cup. I would advise people not to wager on that. [1:44:45] No, please do not bet that. Underdogs never win, actually win the World Cup. There's only eight countries that have ever won it. Seven of them are in this tournament.

[1:44:53] Italy, who I guess would be my second country. They didn't quite make it once again. But Ecuador is going to be my team. I love this team. They were actually better than Brazil. [1:45:02] in World Cup qualifying. They have three or four guys who are mainstays on Champions League teams. 80 to 1, Dabunda. [1:45:09] Yeah, I don't think they can win it. [1:45:11] But like, you know, they're in a group with Germany. I think they match up pretty well with them. Ivory Coast, like that's going to be a really fun underrated group. [1:45:18] And I think nobody's going to want to play them because they only gave up, I think it was five goals in 18 South American World Cup qualifying matches. So elite defensively, not a ton of goals there. So probably low ceiling, but I think they can make a run. They're not that different from what Morocco did a few years ago in terms of like having a handful of really good players and a good system and a good defense. It would have been funny if DeBundo's like, you know, I'm looking at Sweden. [1:45:44] Really well-run country. Really have liked everything. Everything I've heard about those guys. I don't like the Swedes. Oh! As a dark horse? Yeah, what do you got for a dark horse? I love the Swedes as a people, but not as the soccer team this year. You know, Netherlands at, what are they, plus 2,000? [1:46:00] Yeah. [1:46:01] I mean, that's interesting to me. They have a lot of really nice players. They tend to burn quick and then flame out at crucial moments in tournaments, but they have a really solid squad, so I think that's a nice one to look at. [1:46:15] I'm a little bit Eurocentric when it comes to the World Cup. [1:46:18] kind of favoritism though. It's hard for me. [1:46:20] to see Argentina, for instance, at plus 900, getting back into it here.

[1:46:27] As it stands now, I'm looking at the Netherlands. So eight countries ever and one is not in. [1:46:32] Yep. [1:46:33] Hmm. [1:46:34] that's italy three straight world cups our italians missed i want to do a 30 for 30 about that netherlands team in the 70s and we never got it together oh the johan kruif yeah yeah yeah they're kind of like the 2000 steve nash sons of the 1970s basically we were talking about that back in gerlin i remember that yeah we we always circled that idea we never we never got there [1:46:55] All right. Well, to Bunda. [1:46:57] Good luck. [1:46:58] on Sunday. It sounds like you're okay. You just need... [1:47:03] Need a draw against a team that doesn't care if they win or lose, it sounds like. That's right. And West Ham could lose anyway, and they could be fine. [1:47:11] Yeah, odds are probably like six to one that we go down, five to one. [1:47:15] But it's high enough that I'm uncomfortable. All right. [1:47:18] CR, I'm glad we're still getting along after Sixers Celtics. I think there's water under the bridge, brother. [1:47:25] It just turned out badly for both of us. You know what? That's one of the things that was actually comforting about watching the Spurs last night. And I was like, oh, you know what? This is a different sport. Like, it is. We had no fucking shot. Honestly. [1:47:39] We were going to play Keita against Wempenyama? Yeah. I mean, not that we would even go to the finals anyway. But this happens right around now in the last couple of NBA seasons. I'm like, oh, that's how far we are. Forget it. There are levels. I'm not even mad. Yeah, there's this speed thing. And you can really feel it with the perimeter guys, too. [1:47:55] Thank you. [1:47:56] There was a speed thing going on. It's almost like watching two lightweight boxers or welterweight boxers, and they're just flying. And you're like, oh, man. I was watching Caruso getting stronger as the game went on, and I was like, never mind. Yeah. See, I was wondering what was going on with him.

[1:48:12] Yeah. Maybe he got some Paul George tips. I was like, this is nuts. Yeah. Are they just going to leave him open all series? Is that the plan? [1:48:18] Well, that's the Spurs... [1:48:22] On the flip side, I think they're going to let Fox and Harper just take threes now. [1:48:26] I think you have to double Wemby. [1:48:28] Right. [1:48:29] You basically have to live and die with guys on the Spurs hitting the ground. [1:48:34] perimeter threes would be my guess but are you up or down for the playoffs debundo [1:48:39] I'm up. Thanks to Jalen Dern. [1:48:41] What a guy. He's been great. You know, you hate to do a hate watch sometimes. What, did you short him? I bet under points, rebounds, and assists in every game. Wow. Terry Rozier. We went 6-1. Did Terry Rozier? Yeah, I've been listening to some of that. In the Pistons Cavs series. Oh, my God. And then I actually had Caruso over last night, which might have been the easiest win of my life. Oh, my God. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. I went big on Spurs-Knicks after round one. [1:49:06] Um, [1:49:07] I went on the Spurs this year. I have a lot of Spurs stuff. [1:49:11] I just said at some point... [1:49:13] Just at some point was like, what are we doing here? These odds are out of whack. But now the odds are, now it's like they're dead even. It's minus 108 for Spurs or OKC. It couldn't be more even. [1:49:22] You know, we're on the verge of NBA history, Bill. [1:49:25] Which one? Never before. [1:49:26] as the NBA Cup Final... [1:49:29] than repeating. I know, you love this. The long storied history of the NBA. You made Sal love this. Sal is now excited about this. He somehow corrupted Sal. He's like the NBA Cup. We've never had a rematch. We could get a rematch if we get Spurs-Knicks and the Cupheads are very excited about it. We're very excited. It does feel like the biggest possible finals we could have.

[1:49:47] Wemby in the Garden is the best we can do, I think. [1:49:52] Right. And probably the toughest, I would say, if it does happen, those tickets at MSG... [1:49:58] will be the single hardest finals tickets probably ever. [1:50:01] Do you see there's already a StubHub courtside price? [1:50:04] for game one of the finals for the Knicks. [1:50:06] Is it like 30,000? [1:50:08] There was one listed for 100,000, which I think might have been overlisted. [1:50:13] Somebody tweeted for 100,000, I got to be checking into the game. Well, the other thing – that's probably fair. The other thing is Dolan – [1:50:21] controls all this stuff and isn't going to work with the league. And he's just going to be like, I've made promises to Bobby Bacala. [1:50:27] And Matthew Modine and all these other people that had been going forever. We always got to drag Modine through the mud here. Modine's been a great Knicks Liberty supporter. [1:50:39] We still I'm still trying to get to the bottom of that Sixers game three. [1:50:43] Whether it was really M. Night Shyamalan who gave his tickets to Timothy Shalom, they allowed him to sit courtside in Philly. [1:50:50] Oh, is that a rumor? It's a controversy. Would that be a, we'd have to ban him, right? [1:50:55] Yeah, I mean, to the extent that he is the most notable courtside guy. I mean, that's disgusting if that's what he did. That would really be horrible. CR, I'll see you on Friday because we're doing Animal House. It's the last comedy. This could be the last rewatch ever. To Bundo, I'll be watching on Ringer Gambling. Say hi to the crew for me. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me. [1:51:16] This episode is brought to you by Fox One. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World Cup live in 4K for just $19.99 a month with three days free. Build your own multi-view, choose up to three streams, and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights, and instant replays. The FIFA World Cup, streaming live on Fox One. Offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions.

[1:51:44] Thank you. [1:51:44] Study and play. Come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the Unreal College Deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last. Ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college pc. [1:52:15] All right. It's a family reunion. My daughter is home briefly from school. She has to leave for an internship. Murph joining us for the first time ever. Is this his first on-time cameo? I think it might be his first podcast. We wanted to put a mic in front of his face, but... We thought the mic would freak him out, but he's here. It looks like he's going to nap during this. He's just happy to be here. He's happy to be here. All right. So... [1:52:36] We used to call this, for realsies, we called it Team Patrol. [1:52:40] Now you're 21. You turned 21 two weeks ago. You're a young adult. [1:52:44] I am. How does that make you feel? Are you feeling old? Terrible. Yeah, I'm sorry. I feel awful. It was fun having drinks with you on your 21st birthday, though, and watching you flash your ID to everybody. I'd like to stay at this age forever. Now that I'm here, I don't want to get any older. It's an exciting time for me, but probably... [1:53:01] a daunting time for you and mom. Do you want to say final thanks to all the [1:53:06] fake ID people you were over the years. I will say goodbye to Quinn. I'll say I was Quinn. Thank you, Quinn, for your service. [1:53:12] I was Zoe Simmons, but I lived in Bakersfield. Yeah. So I lived in Long Beach. I appreciate all my old homes. Thank you, everyone, for your service. I told you I was Bart Osmond for like two and a half years. I just can't believe that anyone would believe your name was Bart. And I was 5'10", and I would always crouch when I was buying. So anyway, I'm glad you're 21. Welcome to adulthood. We're going to talk about Euphoria first, the most important show of your generation of the 2020s. Went away for a while.

[1:53:42] became super famous. [1:53:44] almost too famous to be in a TV show. Now the show is back and polarizing? Are people mad? What's the deal? Yeah, people aren't happy about what's going on with this season. I have a few issues with it. Well, first of which, it's the Cassie show, which no one signed up for. At the beginning of Euphoria, it was all surrounded by Rue. Rue was the center, and then all of the exterior relationships were kind of side plots. But this season, it feels like [1:54:11] Sydney Sweeney and her boobs are the two main characters and everyone else is just kind of doing their own thing. So there's been a lot of dialogue in our house about this, about why they chose to do this. [1:54:22] And either she's making fun of [1:54:24] the persona that [1:54:26] people seem to think she is the last four years or Sam Levinson, the creator and director, he's making fun of her and she doesn't realize it. So where do you stand? Um, [1:54:35] I would like to believe that the first reason would be the correct one. But at the same time, Sydney Sweeney and every single brand deal, every single [1:54:44] internet thing that she's done has made me believe that she genuinely is that type of person. [1:54:50] Like the American Eagle ad was a conversation within all of my classes in college for months on end. Far too long. People were triggered. There was some triggering. People were triggered. [1:55:00] But like, I mean, it's I just don't I, I think she that is who she is. And honestly, props to her for standing so true to me. [1:55:09] her identity, I guess. But I think Sam Levinson is making fun of her. The monstrous boob version of Sydney Sweeney destroying all of LA was kind of like, oh, maybe he's not on her side here. The Godzilla boobs? Godzilla boobs. She said it was like one of the highlights of her career to do that whole scene. It was because her career is within this area of her body. So of course, she's going to be ecstatic that her boobs were bigger than like the stadium or the Staples Center.

[1:55:39] a movie is what you're telling me i thought it was pretty good i'm sure it was i i don't know i have a problem with her where i can't get into her characters because she's just the same person in every show yeah and euphoria to me feels the most authentic to her and this season has reigned true to that um but she's the first biggest problem okay my second biggest problem is that nate jacobs has become am i allowed to say the p word here [1:56:02] Sure. You say what you want. Nate Jacobs has become a major pussy. [1:56:05] And he's, but he's, [1:56:09] We have to remember that he beat up Maddie Perez in season one. He single-handedly put his father in jail and uprooted his whole life. And he was the biggest bully at the school that they went to. And now he's getting bossed around by Sidney Sweeney and her big boobs. [1:56:23] And these gangsters that are extorting him for money. Right. It's like, Nate, wouldn't you think that you should start carrying like a gun or maybe like a pocket knife or something to defend yourself? You're just going to keep getting limbs cut off without doing anything. You're 6'5 and you're a former quarterback. You can't fight back against anybody. That's what I'm saying. I really I dislike the fact that he has been completely emasculated in this season. [1:56:46] I liked when Jacob Elordi was like this force in euphoria and he's no longer that. So that's [1:56:54] A major problem. Okay. I'm also just not understanding where the season's going to go. [1:57:00] Because we're six episodes in now and Rue has almost been murdered multiple times by the new person that she works for. Maddie's somehow getting involved in this entire stripper deal. And it's just Sydney Sweeney boobs. So it's like, where is everything going to come together? I'm not sure. And it's Rue making this face for...

[1:57:19] Pretty much 90% of the episodes. [1:57:21] Yeah. [1:57:23] She always looks like that. [1:57:24] That's a good job, Dad. You look pretty happy. I don't like you looking at me like that. [1:57:29] I'm scared. [1:57:30] Yeah. [1:57:31] I don't like that. Yeah, but you have to say something too. She's like, come on, man. Come on. [1:57:38] I don't know. I feel like she's... [1:57:41] Great actress, obviously. [1:57:43] I feel like she's a little bit on autopilot this season. [1:57:46] I mean, she has a lot of shit going on. She's probably the biggest female movie star we have. And she's like, oh, fuck, I got to be on season three of this show. So I feel like if this was basketball, this would be like Jason Tatum in February playing the Nets and just kind of running up and down and shooting threes. I'm with you. It seems like Sydney Sweeney is the only one that's really into it. And she might need this. [1:58:06] this was her starting place and maybe, I mean, she's huge. So I don't know if that's accurate. So how much, how much content have you consumed about, [1:58:14] Sydney and Zendaya and not, not being in the same place and never filming the same. Cause you, you pointed out in the wedding scene, you know, [1:58:21] You never actually saw them on screen together. They're never on screen together. And Zendaya just doesn't like her. [1:58:27] I mean, that's at least what I've read and I've heard through the media. I just don't want to say things that might not be true. I don't think she likes her. [1:58:35] And more than that, [1:58:37] I do respect the fact that she values herself as an actress to such a level where she's not gonna like [1:58:42] put herself in that position to be in scenes with someone she dislikes. At the same time, it just, it fucks with the show. And there are multiple relationships on the show where people don't want to be on screen with one another, which is problematic. Well, and they got rid of the girls from Faces of Death. What's her name? Oh, um, Barbie Ferreira. We kind of liked that movie. We were all right with it. I thought it was good. She was definitely dialing it up. I like her a lot, but she also had her own problems with Sam Levinson. It just seems like it's been too much time, too much baggage, too much shit has happened.

[1:59:12] in. [1:59:13] Honestly, I was surprised that this season is as compelling as it is because I thought it was going to be a total train wreck. Yeah. So I'm I'm happy to watch it. You know, I'm not a tough audience. Like I can watch anything and be like, that was enjoyable. I'm having a good time. I just want to know, like, some consistency of the plot line or where this is going. No tell me lies for you. [1:59:34] What do you mean? Like not even close to Tell Me Lies, how excited you were after that season. No, because that, I mean, because we had a villain the whole time. This show, it's like our villain is so inconsistent. And I wanted Nate Jacobs to be the villain because he's my favorite villain. Yeah. And now he's just like this fucking loser that's like hiding out in his house, waiting for more toes and fingers to be cut off. [1:59:54] how many does he have? 10 fingers 10 still has like 17 left that can get cut off yeah it's like maybe Nate Jacobs pick up a pocket knife that's all that I have to say and you were happy with the Tell Me Lies season finale right? absolutely [2:00:08] I mean, it was great. Some people had some things to say. I honestly like that Steven won because I thought Lucy was a bigger loser than he is. Interesting. At least he had some... [2:00:18] ambition and he was committed to the fact that he's an awful person. Lucy spent the whole season trying to convince everyone that she wasn't. Meanwhile, she is. So... [2:00:27] And then you loved JFK Love Story. Oh my God. The best. Even though it kind of ended weekly. I hate to say this. I probably should have known more about what happened with them, but I really didn't know much. Yeah. So watching this show for me was like, [2:00:41] It was a lot to take in because I really didn't know much about what happened to him or her. But she's incredible. You knew they died, right?

[2:00:50] I only knew that JFK died. I didn't know that Carolyn Bassett also died. So that was... [2:00:57] I mean, I loved that show. I wish more shows like that would come out, just about the ins and outs of really popular relationships. You might like the OJ show. Maybe we should watch that before we leave. I mean, that was the left turn. No, that was the same kind of show where it was like... [2:01:12] real life, but really well done with good actors and [2:01:15] I think she's great too. [2:01:16] the lady that plays Carolyn Bassett. I can't remember her name, but she'll be huge. She's gorgeous. I like to call her Bassett. Bassett? [2:01:23] I think it's Bissette. Bissette. Carolyn Bissette. Sorry, Carolyn. [2:01:27] You liked her. You thought that 90s style was back. Oh, yeah. The clothes. Well, she's just classic. And I like that the Internet's like dressing like Carolyn Bessette today. And it's like, no, like you're just dressing like a chic, normal person. But the Internet just likes to ascribe labels and names of things that don't need them. But I do like that. [2:01:44] Her style is coming... [2:01:45] back into the forefront because she's great. And you like that roommate show on the movie, The Sandler's Daughter? Awesome. [2:01:52] I love everything that those two girls do. And obviously Sandler is like my, he's my peak. I just, I love him the most. Yeah. That movie was great. [2:02:01] I mean, as someone that's in college and you have roommates, and obviously my roommates have never, ever been like that person, but... [2:02:07] It's just interesting to see and to watch and be like, that was funny. And I understand what you mean and how you feel. The algorithm really understands you. So your MVP of 2026 is Lorde. Yes. Who you just saw in concert last week. And you said it was the greatest night of your life. She's just, I don't have many musical artists that I feel that way for.

[2:02:29] With her, it's like, [2:02:30] Time stops. Like, I get really weird about Lorde. I love, love, love her. Is that a polarizing opinion, or do most people feel that way? No, I think that people, because she's been labeled, like, cringe at times, or her music is, like, [2:02:45] too old or outdated because we all listened to it when i was 10 remember royals cringy though though oh royals yeah but just because she's been around for such a long time people have problems with people who have remained successful that long and also like she's had some moments at concerts where she's like shushed the crowd and done some things but she's just like really feels things and the [2:03:05] Um, I think that people that listen to her music feel the same way that I do. And you like to have Maggie, what's her face too, right? [2:03:12] Maggie Rogers. Oh, yeah, she's great, too. Me and mom have loved her for forever. But Lorde is is everything to me. And her concert was impeccable. There's just not a miss in any of her songs. Even if you don't know her music, it's just like every song has a beat. Every song is cool. And she is like a polarized like the way that she dances just her as a figure like she's just she's awesome. [2:03:33] What's her demo? [2:03:35] I'd say people my age... [2:03:37] So everyone in the crowd was like around. Yeah. Around. I mean, we were in the pit and that was like all the people that are dancing. But I think Lord is for everyone. Like mom loves Lord. [2:03:47] I think people who like music like Lorde because she's a great lyricist. And like with the way that she writes and the things that she says, like they really relate to people. [2:03:57] So who else do you like these days? Who are you listening to? Well, I'm still a big camp fan. I know you have your mixed feelings. I'm not against it. You and mom just need to get a room. Yeah, we'll get a room and go to camp. But I love camp. Mumford and Sons are, I mean, that concert last summer was probably one of the best I've ever seen. I'm going to see them again. Yeah, you'll see them. Absolutely. Like they he is. Marcus Mumford is incredible. It just brings me

[2:04:21] A lot of joy to see artists who are like sticking true to who they are and don't have to do all the theatrics in order to perform and can just like let their voices be the thing. [2:04:30] I also like Sabrina Carpenter now, though, which kind of goes against that. Yeah, that was an interesting turn for you. Yeah. You didn't like her for a while. I really like her music now. But it's also because I think I'm in a more fun part of my life. Yeah. And I love to go out with my friends and dance. And her music is dancing music. So now it's a little more relatable to me. And also when you're happy, I feel like you like happy music. And her music is happy music. Sabrina Carpenter, good hang or bad hang, do you think? I think she's probably great. [2:04:58] She's definitely great. [2:05:00] She's been media trained. She's been in like on Disney Channel since she was 10 years old. At that point, you can't not be great. [2:05:05] She's great. I'm telling you. Chaperone Tuffang. [2:05:09] I don't even want to speak on her. She doesn't deserve it right here. Speaking of Tuff Hanks. Oh, God. Alex versus Alex happened. That was another thing you were fascinated by. Alex Earl versus Alex Cooper. [2:05:19] And you were listening to Call Her Daddy back when it was pretty raunchy. Yeah. And then you stopped at some point. Back when Alex Cooper, like, when her pod was good. Yeah. Yeah. [2:05:28] I don't... [2:05:32] It's safe to say I have my side and it's with Alex Earl. Stay true to Alex Earl. Yeah. I think this argument is so ridiculous. Well, can you give us the backstory? Because I guarantee 99% of my audience doesn't know what this is. I know. It's not exactly. Here's what I know. Alex Cooper... [2:05:50] First, she has her partner, Sophia. Yes. Who she somehow cut out and got the pod herself. Grew the pod, came to Spotify, became a much bigger pod, went to Sirius.

[2:06:01] did like some really strange documentary that, [2:06:04] your grandfather stormed out of the room for him. He did. He literally left. He doesn't storm out of most things either. I've never seen him storm out of a room before. He's like, I don't like this person. I'm out of here. But anyway, she builds this little... [2:06:16] I guess, little media empire. Alex Earl is her first big hit. [2:06:21] but they have some sort of falling out, which to me from afar, knowing nothing. Well, I can fill you in. Yeah, tell us. So I'm assuming from what I've read... [2:06:30] Alex Cooper gave Alex Earl a non-compete. [2:06:33] contract where she wasn't allowed to, obviously, non-compete contract means you can't do anything that would be competitive with Alex Cooper's brand. And then Alex Earl comes out with Sipmarg's [2:06:45] which is obviously a hit because it's a low-calorie tequila drink, and all of Alex Earl's fans are like little girls that just like, I mean, not little girls, girls that would like, [2:06:53] like to drink that. And Alex Cooper came out with that unwell hydration drink, which I mean, I've never tried it. I have heard good things, so I won't give shit to that. But [2:07:03] I think that was where the problem kind of started to arise, where Alex Cooper was like, hey, fuck you. I told you not to do anything that's going to compete with my... [2:07:11] But even before that, Alex Earl's podcast was on Alex Cooper's Unwell Network. Yeah. And then something happened and all of a sudden it was out. I think that kind of started it. Oh, you think the drinks thing? I think Alex Cooper is a mean girl is what I've gotten from the internet. And I think she's... [2:07:28] Insecure, in a sense. [2:07:30] So she had somebody that was on her podcast network who was turning to eclipse her. That was bigger than her. Yeah. Like, and in a more authentic way, because Alex Cooper was...

[2:07:40] cool and people liked her because of the stories that she would tell. Yeah. Which without a doubt are super raunchy and like intense and people's feelings are at expense of her stories, but they're interesting. [2:07:52] And Alex Earl is kind of like a more authentic, cool, relatable, older sister type who people just like in a way that's like more... [2:08:00] connected than people like Alex Cooper. Yeah, because you'll watch her. She does stuff like she's just doing her makeup, getting ready to go somewhere. And it's the whole process of hanging out with her as she does that. She feels like a friend. And Alex Cooper couldn't do that because... [2:08:15] she's not likable to most people because she's known to be mean. [2:08:19] Yeah. So I think that was, obviously it's like, well, to some degree, cause she has a pretty big audience. [2:08:24] I was a part of that audience at some point until all of this people on the internet are calling her a vulture, I guess, which is I mean, I have nothing to say on that. But people are saying and part of the problem is that Alex Cooper will come to you and you've had some terrible traumatic life event and will be the first person to kind of. [2:08:43] pick at your body and be like, let's talk about this. I didn't say that. That's what the internet saying. [2:08:48] But that's kind of like a part of the thing. So then anyway, Alex Cooper comes out with this video, adding Alex Earl being like, [2:08:56] Alex, I've seen you reposting all of this stuff. Like, just come out and say it. We were all like, holy shit. But it also felt like a skit. It was like the weirdest video ever. Just like...

[2:09:12] I mean, you think that she has such a big team where they'd be like, maybe make this sound a little bit more, whatever. [2:09:17] Did you feel like at all that in wrestling we would call this a work? That they were trying to do this to elevate each other? Yeah. But then it's weeks and weeks, and Alex Earl hasn't responded or addressed anything. She went on a talk show, and they asked her about it, and she was like, I didn't prepare for this. I don't want any negativity, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Like, did not even... [2:09:37] Give it a second of time, which leads me to believe that like obviously they had a falling out, but people thought it might be a PR stunt, like something else might be going on. [2:09:45] But clearly something deeper rooted has happened. And Alex Cooper is more willing to like, [2:09:51] blow things up and kind of be immature. And then Alex Earl wasn't wanting to feed into it. It's a whole debacle. But my stance is I'm on Alex Earl's side. And I think Alex Hooper's being a little immature. [2:10:03] What are Alex Earl's, what are her next five years look like? Well, she just launched a skincare brand called Real Actives, which people had interesting feedback for because most people thought she should have come out with a bikini brand or something that felt more like [2:10:19] authentic to her audience and a skincare brand like lingerie like sydney sweeney she's too cool for that sydney sweeney can stay in her lane that she can do that but alex earl like she she there were opportunities she chose skincare which is i mean sure um so that seems like it's going well i've seen posts about it people seem to like it i haven't purchased it myself and i don't think i will but good for her so your lane would have been core power yoga

[2:10:44] Something, you know, like something that would have prompted people to purchase it more. I don't know. I think skincare is a tough whatever. It seems like she's doing well. And then she has sit marks. So she's successful. She seems like she's doing well. Just so people don't think you're catty, two people you really like. [2:11:02] Did I sound catty in that? No, not at all. I apologize. Not at all. But you really like Kylie and Kendall. I do. I really do. [2:11:10] We told this to me, I was surprised, because I felt like the Kardashians... [2:11:14] They get a tough rep. They do. That's for sure. [2:11:18] I wouldn't say it's... [2:11:20] you know, completely undeserved. Yeah, sure. [2:11:23] At the same time, I am like a huge Kylie stan. I'm still unclear on how I feel about Kendall because she has taken my husband. So I'm going to need a minute to think on that one. I'm not even ready to talk about that yet. [2:11:35] How long have they been together, Kendall and Jacob Lurdy? Too long. They went to Hawaii last week. I almost threw my phone out the window. [2:11:43] Whatever. [2:11:45] Kylie's great. [2:11:46] She just really is. I love her. What's great about her? Tell me why you like her. I think she's a super authentically kind person. [2:11:55] And obviously people might be like, what are you saying? She's one of the biggest stars. And like, how could she be an authentically kind person? [2:12:01] But in every single interview, in every single fan interaction, everything that I've seen of her, she's just like a nice, cool, normal, down to earth person in light of everything that has happened to her. [2:12:12] Like she's been in front of a camera since what she was like,

[2:12:16] eight years old. Right. And the fact that she's like a normal, cool, kind of person that's liked by most of the people that she meets, like that is, that says a lot to me because she, [2:12:25] People aren't like that these days. What was the thing you were telling me about when she had a kid and she gained weight and she was like, well, she went on podcast last week, which is where this like real love ignited for me. [2:12:37] Because I just... [2:12:39] I loved her personality. I was like, I'd be friends with this person in a heartbeat. Like she seems great. [2:12:44] Don't have a heart attack over that one. You'd be friends with whoever you want. You tend to overrate all Jake Shane appearances though. Uh, I, but, [2:12:52] She was talking about how when she had her daughter Stormy, she was in the best shape of her life. [2:12:57] And then she got pregnant and was eating pints of ice cream every single night and bagels and all sorts of things. And by the time she was giving birth to her daughter, she was 200 pounds. [2:13:08] And didn't even like flinch in saying that. And I just think in this day and age, especially with how skeletal people in Hollywood have become and like the GLP one and everyone's just so, so skinny for someone to admit that they're, [2:13:21] they were 200 pounds, someone as much of a force as Kylie Jenner is, and she's constantly talked about for her looks and everything. Yeah. I mean, I thought that that was pretty a cool thing to do. [2:13:32] So I'm big in on her. In the rundown you sent me, things you want to talk about, you wrote, Kylie and Kendall have single-handedly taken down the Twin Towers, Jacob and Timmy. Well, that is my only problem with them. And they just went to Hawaii. Yeah. Yeah.

[2:13:46] Well, Kendall and Jacob went to Hawaii and then they got caught on a double date. And there's some awesome paparazzi pictures of them in a car, like covering their faces. I think Kendall and Jacob are a great couple and will probably have beautiful children if that's the route that it's going for. I do think that they're too big on their own to be able to be together in a way that could ever be normal. But I could be wrong. [2:14:12] You know my theory about this. I've talked about this forever. I haven't. Two celebrities, when they date two famous people, they have to stay in the same level and the moment one passes the other, they have to break up. Yeah. I don't know. It's got to be like this. I can't start doing this. [2:14:25] I don't think that the last, it's a fun moment though. And my prayers go to Olivia Jade because that's a tough one. That was the before Jacob already won? Jacob's ex who was on and off for like seven years. That's the one who was the Lori Loughlin's daughter? Yes. I love her too. [2:14:41] Do you like her? I love her. The USC girl? I love her. I watch all of her videos. Why do you like her? [2:14:46] She's super cool and normal. Her videos, she doesn't really let her personality shine. It's just kind of like, [2:14:52] aesthetics getting ready, but she's super cute and has great style. I just, I like watching her stuff and her outfits and things. What's the TikTok Instagram... [2:15:00] attention- [2:15:01] span? What's happening in 2026? What's different in the last six years? In terms of people being able to [2:15:08] What do you mean when you say that? Are there any trends? Are people starting to realize maybe I shouldn't be on my phone this much? What's happening? I mean, people will say that, but will that ever happen? Like, no. I think TikTok is just as big, if not bigger, than it was before, especially because there's now the shop.

[2:15:25] which is incredibly annoying to me, but a good move on their part. [2:15:29] You know about the TikTok shop. [2:15:31] do you buy stuff? Yeah. Like the fact that there's consumer things now too, it just drags even more people in. Okay. Instagram, at least for me, is just becoming a place to post. It's not really a place that I like frequently scroll on. Instagram reels are great, but they're not as, I don't like get as much into a trance as I do with TikToks. Do you still go on people's posts when they post pictures of themselves and go gorge? I really don't anymore. Hearts? No, I don't do gorge or hearts. [2:16:01] I'll only really comment on like my best friends posts. Yeah. You phase out of it, you know? [2:16:06] I'd like to get off of Snapchat at some point soon, but it's my main form of communication with my boyfriend and other people. Snapchat still kicking in. Don't judge me for that. What? [2:16:16] That's people judge for using Snapchat, especially in relationships. But I just like to see the face. I like to see someone else's face. Well, you, you, your generation has this whole thing where you just take pictures of your, where you are and send them to each other. Yeah. Like be real and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. [2:16:31] I mean, that is how it is. I would rather, I just want to see photos. I think texting all the time is boring. Anyway. What social media device do you think Murph would use? [2:16:40] He needs a lobotomy or something. I don't know what's going on with him. He really has chilled out. It's impressive. He's old. He's almost six years old. Don't say that. He's not old. If he was human, he'd be like 40. He's a baby. He still doesn't like other dogs. Yeah. All right. Other stuff. You...

[2:16:57] You deep dove the pit. I did. [2:17:00] Which last time you did a hospital drama that you binged was Grey's Anatomy during COVID and you, you, your personality changed. It put me into a place. Yeah. You were like in a dark spot for like three months. Well, you'll be happy to hear I did rewatch Grey's Anatomy this last semester. That was my show. The entire show? It's like 18 seasons. No, no, no. We only got through like three, three seasons, I think. Yeah. He hasn't even seen George die yet. So hopefully he's not listening to this. Yeah. He's definitely listening to this. And then. [2:17:28] We switched over to the pit. [2:17:31] halfway through watching Grey's Anatomy and it was like I can't ever watch Grey's Anatomy again the pits just yeah the pits spoils everything yeah I mean what an amazing show [2:17:39] I hate to say it. My attention span is short, especially when it comes to watching television. [2:17:46] My attention span in regular life is fine, but when I'm watching TV, I need to be stimulated by something else, which is something I'm trying to work on. Yeah. Like even yesterday watching the Wemby game. We were watching a movie and I had my phone. No, we watched the Wemby game and it was like one of the most important basketball games of the century. [2:18:01] I did that despite you because you kept punching my phone and pissing me off. Well, I was just like, I'm not going to give you the satisfaction. Why does it bother you when somebody touches your phone? You react like... He doesn't touch. You're like Warren and there's something about Mary with the headphones. You're just trying to rage bait me and I don't like it. So I was trying to make you angry back. Anyway, um... [2:18:18] The pit is phenomenal. But my point to that was that I didn't pick up my phone once at any point watching that. You were locked in. Because it moved so quickly. I wish we had more TV shows that were so fast paced like that.

[2:18:30] And just like, [2:18:32] I don't know. The way that it was filmed was just special. So... [2:18:35] You never left the hospital. There wasn't really any music. [2:18:39] There's never a moment of calm. [2:18:41] And like that, [2:18:42] I mean, maybe that's a problem that that's the only reason why I wouldn't pick up my phone. But like, I think, [2:18:48] TV has gotten boring and there's too many pauses and things. And this show is just like perfect. [2:18:53] That led to one of mom's best quotes when she said how she wished she'd been smarter because she would have been a great doctor. She would have been a great trauma doctor. She's not afraid of any sort of terrible situation. She doesn't get grossed out by blood. Her one problem is she panics. [2:19:09] She's a panicker. She's a loud panicker, though. She's like, oh, God, what happened? And it's like you have this... [2:19:16] Back up. Sorry, Murph. [2:19:18] Wow, you just jostled the knife out of his neck. Yeah, but the pit is great. Anyone get canceled this year? [2:19:24] I mean, everyone gets canceled, but currently it's James Charles. [2:19:29] Which makes me sad because I actually was telling all my friends that I'm in on him. And I was like, in spite of everything he's done, because a lot of people have done terrible things. And I acknowledge that he's a pretty, he's not a great person. Has he been canceled multiple times? He's done some weird shit. He's not a good person. Regardless... [2:19:45] I started to like him again because I thought he was funny. Like I just saw a lot of clips of him just [2:19:50] He doesn't care. He's just becoming one of those people where just he'd say whatever he wanted. And it was like, that's funny because why would you do that? Whatever. But he has just gotten canceled again. So there's no new person this year? There's no rookie of the year? Come up? Well, I'm a big Stassi Schroeder fan. Back to the – or no, sorry. Stassi Baby, not Stassi Schroeder. I'm sure she's great too. Stassi Baby. Kylie Jenner's best friend. She's my favorite right now.

[2:20:16] Kylie Jenner's best friend? Yes, that's what I'm saying. She's an influencer. [2:20:21] But they've been best friends since Kylie was a little kid and they were on Kardashians together. And then it's kind of like the Internet grew up with her. [2:20:27] She's great. I love her. So what does she bring to the table? [2:20:30] She just does makeup and is she she goes out all the time. [2:20:35] Yeah. [2:20:36] This is brain rot. [2:20:37] She goes out all the time. And I love like watching her get ready. And then she films her night out with her friends. And it's just like, this is so fun to watch because there's nothing more fun than that. [2:20:46] So, [2:20:47] Um, [2:20:48] The drama was another one you liked. Yeah. The movie. Back to Zendaya. That movie was great. [2:20:54] I thought it was great. Anything else? Any horror movie this year? [2:20:57] I'm excited for the back rooms. That will be really fun to watch. And it's also just... [2:21:03] incredible that a 20 year old is is the person who produced it and created it that makes me want to see it even more [2:21:09] But the idea about the back rooms has been something that has fascinated me for forever. So I'm excited to see it. I've been pointing that out to you a lot about these people when they're in your age range. Yeah. How just weird it is to me that somebody who's 20 is making a movie and Wemby's 22 is a year older than you. Right. It does make you, it makes you feel bad about yourself. No, not just like. No, it does. It does. [2:21:31] No, but sometimes people peak early. You're doing great. Well, I mean, Taylor Swift, and she was a 17-year-old, or 16, probably younger than that, like came out with the debut album. It's like this, I'm the age... But she's a generational musician. I know, but I'm just saying, it's weird getting older, because the people around you are only getting older. I brag about you all the time. Thanks. I know. Two jobs this summer. Yeah. It's impressive. It'll be cool. I'm a core power yoga sculpt instructor, if anyone's involved in what it comes to my classes.

[2:21:58] Great. What's Taylor Swift's next two years look like? [2:22:02] You know, I really like her music. [2:22:05] I'm sure she's happy. I can't say that I like her. [2:22:09] as a person right now. [2:22:11] Because she's aged out of your... [2:22:14] extended demo. It's not that at all. I like people who are older. I don't care for that. It's the fact that [2:22:20] She kind of [2:22:21] will create a posse and have a lot of people around her and then drop some like flies. And I get you're a famous person and you have to do that sometimes because if people cross you, then you can't have them around because I mean, she's in a tough position. But, [2:22:34] At the same time, like, I don't love that. [2:22:36] That doesn't. [2:22:38] I don't know. I can't judge because I'm from afar. But I think it's also her fandom that gives me problems because I don't want to be lumped in with the real crazies. But I do like her music a lot. [2:22:48] So I think she'll, she's going to get married. I don't know where, probably in Rhode Island. [2:22:53] That'll be cool. Hey, Travis. [2:22:55] pay-per-view. [2:22:56] Yeah, pay-per-view, $100. [2:22:58] To do like a boxing UFC event. There's no way that she would do that. $[redacted address] that she would do that. I'm sure she'll be pregnant soon. She'll have ginormous babies with Travis Kelsey. It'll be great. She's a big kid. She's like 5'11". She's also like a great athlete probably. [2:23:15] She's a great dancer, so I'm going to assume. [2:23:17] How does it feel turning 21? [2:23:20] Um, you know, I have no, nothing's holding me back anymore. [2:23:24] It's a nice feeling. I didn't like being Quinn and going up to the, to the bartender allegedly. And

[2:23:32] For me to be like, oh, I don't know if this is going to work out for me. And now my life has just opened up. [2:23:38] Am I allowed to tell them the story about you? [2:23:41] No. Why not? Which story? [2:23:44] No, there are no stories about me on my own podcast. I'll just edit it out. [2:23:48] You don't get it. We had a really fun night, though. We did. [2:23:51] The best time ever. I think that was one of my favorite days ever. It was. Except the Celtics lost. Yeah. That, if they had won, it would have been the cherry on top. [2:24:02] But to see you take about four Fanta shots, which they're exactly how they sound... [2:24:07] and one was dyed green, [2:24:09] That was great. And then I think, [2:24:12] I enjoyed you... [2:24:15] Having your... [2:24:17] transfusions, [2:24:19] Which every time I looked away and then I turned back, somehow you had another one in your hand. I don't know how it was happening. I was nervous because the Celtics were in a game seven. I know. I figured they were probably going to lose. And you were trying to lose. Nervous drinking. Plus, you turned 21 and it was freaking me out. It was a big day. And we had a big night the night before, too. Mom really had a home run. [2:24:38] Ben even had a home run and then, yeah, it was great. We did some karaoke. [2:24:43] Yeah, it was weird because 11 years before you're 21st, I remember we went ziplining. [2:24:48] in Catalina. [2:24:51] And that seems like it was like five minutes ago. [2:24:53] Yeah. But that goes slower for you. It goes faster for me. I don't. Well, yeah, obviously it goes faster for you, but. [2:25:00] It feels like these last few years have really sped by. Like, I feel like Ben just had a senior prom the other day, which we went to.

[2:25:08] And it like it made me sad because it's like Ben just entered high school. It feels like I feel like I just had my senior prom. And all of a sudden it's like Ben is going to college. [2:25:17] And you have one more soccer year left, starting at age four. This is like year... [2:25:21] You're 17? Yeah. I won't give up on it, though. I'm going to do something with soccer. I can't let it go. [2:25:28] I'm excited for your last year. Yeah. But it's... It's all I have because the Celtics are in shambles. [2:25:35] The Patriots, our coaches, and shambles. Oh, my God, Jalen Brown, to end it off. We have to talk about him. Oh, yeah, you went to a lot of Sotha games this year. Well, I'm a devoted fan. You were like a legitimate fan this year. I kind of unfortunately was lucky because Papadoc wasn't able to make most of the games, so... [2:25:52] I got a lot of tickets. Yeah. I've really become. And you're dating somebody who loves. Basketball. Yeah. [2:25:59] But I've really become attached to this team, mostly Jason, but... [2:26:04] Well, your guy Kata was... Kata, I've been rooting for Kata for two and a half years. Even before he could... He looked like Bambi on ice for a season. Yeah. He couldn't... He was not... [2:26:17] together. So did you study the Tatum-Jalen body language when Tatum came back and how they interacted? You kind of started to tell me about it and it's just not something I ever would have [2:26:27] wanted to look for because why would I want them to be rooting against each other? Yeah, it's totally there. [2:26:33] Like, they totally... [2:26:35] do not get along, in a sense. Well, they don't not get along. It's just they don't seem...

[2:26:39] It doesn't seem like they're like... They seem like co-workers. Yeah. [2:26:43] I'm not positive Jalen was rooting for Tatum to... [2:26:48] come back and be great. [2:26:50] Yeah. [2:26:51] It feels like, I mean, as an athlete and as a soccer player, it's like she he had is like there was a moment and a real opportunity in time where he was the leader and like going to be the savior of the team. Yeah. And he was great. Like he he really was. He stepped up to the plate. [2:27:08] And then Tatum comes back and everyone's like, oh, thank God. Like Tatum's back. Now we have a chance. And I can understand how you might have a chip on your shoulder if that's the reaction of the fandom. It's like with Murph in our house when. When Willie comes. Yeah. Because we gave. Willie gets attention. We gave our dog Willie to your grandmother after your grandfather died. [2:27:24] And Willie hangs out with her. But when he comes back to the house, Murph acts like Jalen Brown. Yeah. [2:27:29] He's like, I've been running this shit, and you are gone. The offense runs for me, motherfucker. You're coming back into my territory. I'll be the one that goes to the backyard first. You will follow me. But it makes me sad. I'm going to try and dribble through all five players on the court, and you're not getting the ball. Stand over there. Put your hand up. It makes me sad. And if Jalen leaves, I mean... [2:27:53] I don't know what to make of that. [2:27:55] I... [2:27:56] I hope they stay together and maybe they will if there's not a good enough trade. But I do really have the feeling he wants his own thing now. [2:28:04] Because they won the title. If they hadn't won the title, that would be different, right? But they already won the title, and now he's like...

[2:28:10] Kind of really like to have my own team. [2:28:12] I get it. Are there any prospects for who can come in and save us? Cause I'd, I'd like that. Now they'll, they'll be able to get some of you guys. Plus, [2:28:21] I don't know how many more years until Deuce is the backup center. Like 10. Deuce is like five feet tall now. He's huge. [2:28:28] I always see him in warm-ups and he's like doing his thing. Yeah. That would make me sad though. Jalen always has like a little handshake with him before the game. Like that'd be a bummer. That's the thing. [2:28:38] Um, [2:28:39] It's so rare to stay together for that long. [2:28:41] Like even Klay Thompson and Steph Curry eventually broke up because Klay Thompson, they didn't want to keep him. [2:28:47] to stay together for your entire careers is like the rarest thing you could do, which makes me think it won't happen. [2:28:52] Yeah, and also for them to be working in tandem for so long. It's understandable how he might want his own thing. Well, you like tall guys. Wemby's probably too tall for you, though. He's too tall. 7'7 is probably too big. I've gotten more mature. I don't need them to be ginormous anymore. Like a Lordi size? Yeah. [2:29:10] That'd be great. And he's Australian. [2:29:13] Hopefully Hank is walking. Is Australian, that's a bonus? I love Australia. I've been telling you forever I'd like to go there. But just people from other places are like an accent's a cool thing. [2:29:25] It's very similar to Boston. That's why you like it. Yeah. Is it? Yeah. Really fun, rambunctious people with weird accents. People are happy there. And they're happy because it's sunny and they're all beautiful all the time. And it's like, why would that not be a place where you want to go? Marco Robbie is also from there. Maybe you'll have to go there after college. I'd like to. Maybe take a visit. All right, Zoe Simmons. Congratulations on turning 21. Thanks, Dad. You've been coming on my podcast since I was at ESPN when you sang Christmas songs. Oh, I remember that. That was like late 2000s. Yeah, quite a run for you.

[2:29:55] first appearance. I was about to say, does Murph have any final words? I wish I could move the mic towards him. [2:30:00] Murph? [2:30:01] Right. [2:30:03] Happy to say. [2:30:05] It's given in the SNS. [2:30:07] Can't speak. All right. Thanks, Zoe. Thanks, Dad. [2:30:37] survivor content. So stay tuned for that. I will see you on Thursday. [2:30:55] We saw [2:30:57] So I. [2:30:58] We'll be right back. [2:31:00] Must be 21 plus in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Often required bonus issued as non-drawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fandler.com. Gave them a problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call [redacted government id] or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

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