Burning NBA Questions and a “Holy Crap, Charlotte!!!” Deep Dive With Zach Lowe

[00:00] For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. [00:07] Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required. [00:30] of Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. Call [redacted phone] to learn more or visit TrimphiaRadio.com. [01:00] This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. [01:08] Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. [01:13] Presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head. [01:17] Backyard tradition now available behind the counter. [01:20] Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boreshead, committed to craft since 1905. [01:29] .

[02:01] It's the Bill Simmons Podcast. [02:04] Netflix, Zach Lowe is here. On Netflix tomorrow, Zach Lowe, there's going to be a live rewatchables because it's CR month. [02:12] Chris Ryan finally got his own month. We're doing Sicario live, 6 p.m. ET. [02:17] on Netflix. [02:18] When you watch Sicario multiple times in the same weekend, it definitely sets the mood. I don't know what mood it is, but... [02:24] I was in a [02:26] really frisky mood for the Sixers Celtics game turned out to be the K-2 game. But I really just want to talk about the lady getting kicked in the head. [02:32] on the VJ Edgecombe play. It brings in a lot of courtside questions. The people that bring little like six-year-old kids to sit courtside thinking nothing could ever happen. This to me is a PSA video now. I mean, it's crazy that someone got injured worse in this sideline incident than when the Hornets and the Pistons had a brawl that almost spilled into the second row of the stands and everyone was fine. And this poor lady, I think they said her name was Christine or something, [03:02] sitting there. She's still sitting there. She's bleeding. Of course, I was like, no, I'm good. I'm going to stay in the game. You've got to admire it, but you've got to head on a swivel at all times. [03:11] She looked like one of the Canadian Olympic hockey players just trying to make it to the handshake line. Huge bruise on the side of the face. [03:19] I couldn't tell if she was looking at the player, if she was looking away and didn't see it. But then the foot ricocheted late, which I don't know how you could predict. But I've been saying this forever. For some reason, it took forever in baseball games with foul balls.

[03:34] For us to get really concerned about people along the third base side, first base side, the line drives... [03:40] Took a couple people just getting nailed to be like, oh, we should probably put a net up. I still feel like with courtside, [03:47] We're just playing with fire. Because you can go to any game and you can see who's sitting there. And there's always one person who's too old and one person who's too young. Sit in those seats. And it's always in that area. [03:58] Like right three point line extended. [04:00] where people are trying to either like running out or they're trying to save a loose ball and they just go flying in there full speed. [04:06] Yeah, the baseline seats are far enough back. Those are your safest court side seats. The sideline seats... [04:12] You're on the floor and you're right. It could happen at any moment and you got to be, you got to be ready. I've always been a hardliner about baseball in the cell phone age or even the pre-cell phone age. If you get hit because you, you're not paying attention. Right. I don't, I mean, if you suffer some sort of traumatic brain injury, I'll feel bad for you, but you're at the game. The tickets say it on the back. Yeah, pay attention, pay attention. I'm teaching my daughter that now. And she's a product of like the TikTok cell phone age. Like she doesn't have a phone yet. [04:42] games, you got to be ready at all times. [04:45] You can see it when you go to baseball games. Just look around in like the fourth inning and see how many people are like this. [04:51] which is basically why they had to put the Nets up. Sixers-Celtics... [04:55] I just want to say these NBC Sunday Night Games, I think, have accomplished their early objective. [05:01] which is to make it feel like a bigger game. [05:04] Right. If they show the pregame warmups, right.

[05:07] They have Lenny Kravitz. They have the John Tesh song. The studio, the crew is there on the court. [05:13] And it does feel like a bigger game. [05:16] I do like what they've done, and I think it was a good idea. So that's one of the few nice things I'll say about all the weird network schedule stuff we have. Because I never know what channel is on what game at any time. Just when I was getting used to the Fridays, that slipped. [05:31] And now it's like ESPN's on Friday. I never know where the games are, but I do like this. And somehow the ratings are skyrocketing up, even though people say they can't find where the game is. I don't even know how to measure ratings really anymore. But I agree with you. The Sunday Night NBC stuff is good. The song, it's always good to hear Round Ball Rock. I like Tesh's appearance at the All-Star game. He was bouncing the fake ball in tune with the drum line. That was great. And yeah, it felt like a big game tonight. [05:57] Yeah, we didn't get Embiid. [05:59] No. [05:59] Tatum, it feels like it's going to be Friday. [06:04] Like Dallas. Okay. [06:06] That's what, all signs are pointing to Friday, Dallas. I was... [06:11] Uh, wondering if it would be this weekend, but by Friday, I think it was not going to be this weekend. That's, that's an NBC game as well. Is it not? [06:18] Might be. [06:19] I think they were talking about that game at the end, and obviously they have this Tatum rehab docu thing they're doing. [06:26] you [06:27] I have a couple more notes from this game. VJ Max, I'm just automatic veto. I don't like it. [06:32] Thank you. I thought I was the only one. It's bad. I hated it from the beginning. And I sabotaged probably any deal I'll ever get from TJ Maxx because I hate it because I hate going into TJ Maxx. I say this all the time. If you want to buy a lamp, a fake gold plated lamp in the shape of a cat.

[06:51] TJ Maxx, as you covered, if you want to buy something useful, please. [06:55] TJ Maxx is not for you. I did a whole thing. Kellerman was on my pod Thursday and I had a mailback question about, [07:02] about nicknames. [07:04] which really peaked in the 70s, 80s, and maybe even early 90s. And now we're just flailing. And we use initials and acronyms for the most part. [07:14] And then occasionally when people try to push something, it's something just hacky like BJ Max. I just think we need to go back to the ground board. This is making me feel so much better because the NBC people say, well, I like BJ Max. That's a good one. Like, it is? So I guess I'm the only one. No, I'm not. I'm not the only one. You're never alone. [07:31] Usually the group player... [07:33] kind of nickname things. [07:35] TMC. [07:37] with the Warriors in the early 90s. That worked, but it was also the first initial of each guy's name, and it was kind of organic, and I liked it. The Jays, I think, even though it's not technically a nickname, but Jalen and Jason. [07:48] calling the Jays. I'm not calling BJ Max, BJ Max ever. No, I feel stupid saying it. I'll take, can I just give you my favorite nickname of all time in the history of sports team or player? It trumps all categories. What is it? This is going to be right up your alley. [08:03] Five Slamma Jamma. It's the best. Oh, yeah. It's number one on the nickname scale. [08:08] Yeah. And think about that. That was like 43 years ago. We really peaked. We were just better at nicknames way back when. [08:14] which is what I was talking to Max about when we had the Clyde the Glide and those kind of names. Like we were just... [08:20] Just had it all figured out. I don't know what happened. This was the Kata game. I know. Ironic because my dad took my daughter, and my daughter has been the biggest Kata fan for his entire Celtic career.

[08:31] Because... [08:31] Those... [08:33] Enough about basketball to follow what's going on, but not enough about basketball to understand the league and how the players and who's worth what. And she's been asking for three years, why don't they play Kata? [08:44] Isn't that, doesn't he have everything that a center would have? So when he kind of took off this year for the Celtics, she was like, I was telling you, it was like her one win. Wow. She sounds like me taking credit. What a win for Zoe Simmons. Unbelievable. So Zoe Simmons is there today with the hat on, thinking there might be a dark chance Tatum comes out of the tunnel because that's her favorite player. But then her other favorite player, Kata, became the Kata game. And this was the 39th pick in the 2001 draft. [09:09] by your favorite, the Sacramento Kings. They did it again. [09:13] It just had a prototypical center who... [09:17] is really good with his hands up, who's coordinated, who plays hard, who rebounds, who gets better basically every month. And they just like, we're good. Take a hike. Well, they found him again in Dylan Cardwell. We're doing Dylan Cardwell deep cuts it already. So hang on to Dylan Cardwell. Try Sacramento. I just, just free advice. [09:37] If you have a good player... [09:40] Try to keep the player on your team. It's a free tip. Just try it. Try it out in this next era of Kings basketball. Well, so Cata, as a playoff guy... [09:51] Um, which I don't, I just don't think they counted on him like they do now. [09:56] And you think about some of the teams that the Celtics are going to play in the playoffs, potentially bigger teams, guys like during the guys, the Knicks have.

[10:04] Jared Allen and Moby on the Cavs. Like they're actually going to really, really need him. And you have this combined with the Tatum comeback, which I, I've, [10:13] I have like a stealth conspiracy that they're using Shireman as a [10:17] Tatum Proxy. [10:19] Shireman's minutes are way up the last six weeks. And I feel like, [10:23] And he's playing well and he's doing well on defense and they're using him [10:27] A little like how they would use Tatum if his legs were back. And some of the stuff they're running... [10:33] offensively and some of the ways they're using Shireman, I feel like is what they're going to end up with Tatum specifically. They like having them in that left corner and, [10:42] when Jalen and White are doing like the little at the top stuff, Tata sets a pick, somebody else comes, there's a little action. And Shireman's always open that left corner. And I feel like that's going to be a Tatum spot. I think they're going to be very careful with how they use him. Probably stagger the minutes with Jalen. But when you think about it, because we're close now, what does a Tatum comeback do? [11:01] look like for you? Give me your [11:03] ceiling basement outcomes for this ceiling is he comes back gets 10 to 12 games under his belt in a regular season so the playoffs are not zero to 100 right away um minutes wise i don't know let's just say 20 to 25 minutes let's be conservative and say he's not going to start playing 35 minutes a game even if he plays a decreased role compared to what he used to play yeah let's say 20 25 minutes [11:27] Uh, [11:28] Not quite role player, but not Jason Tatum. And then you said it, when Jalen sits, they've been awesome, by the way, when Jalen is on the bench this whole season. They were awesome again today when Jalen Brown is on the bench. But they do lose. They become like almost a completely system team. And the system has worked really well. The high screens, all the different screen and roll combinations, the shooting all around it. But they do lose the...

[11:51] bully ball if everything comes to a halt with five seconds left in the shot clock. Can we miss Matt Chun? Can we do something? And he's just tall enough that even if he can't, [12:01] power his way to the rim the way he peak Jason Tatum does or blow by everybody the way he does. He can still be Jason Tatum and shoot over the 6'4 guard that switched onto him at the end of the shot clock. And that just makes your team... [12:14] It's just another guy slicing into, I mean, it's hard to say like taking some of the Gonzalez minutes and the Hauser minutes and the Walsh minutes because all those guys are playing really well. But just Jason Tatum taking a piece of each of those guys minutes and all the non-Jalen minutes, I just see no downside to it at all for them. [12:33] We feel the same. I feel like it's going to be Shireman the minutes that it takes. [12:37] Yeah, either just throw him into the same bucket. Just saying. And he's not going to be worse than Shireman. [12:42] I would say 18 to 24 minutes probably. Maybe you're looking at nine minute stretches in each half or like six and [12:49] five in each half or something like that. Shireman... [12:53] His minutes per game... [12:55] Um, [12:56] In February was 24.3, which I thought was interesting because that's right around where I think, [13:02] Tatum's going to be there. There's going to be [13:03] Simon's was out, so some minutes got shared. [13:07] And then they have to figure out this Vucevic thing because – [13:11] You know, he looked... [13:12] really awful in a couple of those road trip games. And then Friday against Brooklyn, [13:17] who usually plays the Celtics well. [13:19] Just for the record. And the Celtics had one of the great offensive performances in the history of the sport.

[13:24] So that was interesting. But Vuce looked good in that game. Didn't look as good today. I just think at age 35, you're a long-time Vucevic watcher. Age 35, he's just going to be hit or miss. You're going to know... [13:35] probably in the second quarter each game. Oh, we're getting him tonight? Oh, we're not? Okay, we'll do this instead. Well, I think the Cata discussion is really also about Vucevic in that this is an overdue transition for him into a backup center role, which he is fine for because there are just going to be some matchups where the A-team offense on the other team is just too fast and too dynamic for him. But can you spot him 14 to 18 bench minutes when the best offense player on the other team is not on the floor and he can just bang on the glass [14:05] box out. And tonight was like 11 points, 12 rebounds, like didn't kill you on defense. Not the most dynamic offensive team outside of Maxie and Edgecombe, which is a problem for him. But I think this is like he was just overmatched as a starting center in his mid to late 30s. And this is a totally fine role for him. And they need to, you mentioned all the giants that they're going to go through. I really think [14:25] Those Detroit games, and particularly the one in Detroit where the Pistons kind of beat them up, maybe it was in Boston, I can't remember, I think they've lost both in both places. I think those games really freaked the Celtics out a little bit, like, oh my god, this team is A, for real, and B... [14:39] just massive and strong compared to us in a way that we are not quite built to play against. [14:45] I agree. It's so funny that you can't really survive in the playoffs anymore unless you can absize. [14:51] You need everything, man. You have no chance. You have OKC. You have Denver. You have Minnesota. You have all the teams in the East we mentioned. You're not getting away with the 2015 season.

[15:01] warriors type of let's go small we'll play it like that those days are over um [15:07] This Tatum comeback, one thing that I haven't heard anyone talk about, [15:11] that I realized today. [15:13] The rarity of somebody coming back [15:15] this late in the season that's also being counted on, [15:19] on a team that has a chance to make the finals, [15:22] I went through all the history trying to figure out how many times this has happened. [15:27] I really could only find Jordan with the baseball comeback in 95. [15:32] Magic Johnson got hurt in 1981. He hurt his knee. He missed like 40 games. He missed over half the season, his second season. They came back, they lost in round one. And then Wilt Chamberlain only played 12 games in the regular season. [15:44] In the 69-70s. [15:46] came back for the playoffs in the Willis Reed playoffs. [15:49] There might have been a couple others, but I really racked my brain. I couldn't, [15:53] This is really unusual. Like, normally how it goes is Jamal Murray getting hurt. [15:58] Missing the rest of the season coming back and just kind of not being ready in time for the playoffs and the team kind of punting on it. [16:05] We've never really seen this. And I don't, it's one of the rare things in sports where I have no idea how it plays out. [16:11] You can give me any set of alternatives for it, and I just don't know. [16:15] I mean, it could not go well, and they could decide midway through, like, we're actually going to cut your minutes. I don't suspect that's going to happen just because he's so good and he appears to be ready. Yeah, but anything could happen. There was the Jordan broken foot season, too, but they weren't a contender that year. But they weren't good, though, yeah. And you're right. They were fairly a playoff thing. Most of the time, like, I think back to KG in 2009 when there was this will-he-won't-he thing from that weird knee injury. Even, like, remember Jameer Nelson that same year got hurt in the playoffs and Rafer Austin started,

[16:45] like willy wony that's usually what it is and it is a trickier like reintegration process for those kinds of players so yeah this is this is a weird one [16:54] I can't remember. Stoudemire 20 years ago in the 06 Suns. [16:58] I can't remember if he was lingering for a comeback or not. I'd have to reread seven seconds or less. He did not come back, I don't believe, in the playoffs. He didn't come back, but I didn't know if it was like they had their fingers crossed. Well, we'll see what happens. This is going to be a very interesting Celtics week because they have Milwaukee tomorrow night. [17:14] And I think they're going to rest everybody and hope Milwaukee has one of those... [17:17] Just terrible Milwaukee games like they had today. Charlotte on Wednesday, who we're going to talk about later. We're doing a Charlotte. The deep dive. We did Kawhi last week. We're doing a deep dive on Charlotte this week. [17:27] Friday, Dallas, Cooper flag homecoming. The entire state of Maine is going to be there. Hopefully he plays. And then I think they play against Sunday. [17:35] I want to talk about Maxie quick because I was thinking about him today. [17:38] Um, [17:40] The best picks after pick 20... [17:43] He's the 21st pick in 2020. How rare it is. [17:47] to get somebody that you've drafted for yourself who has a chance to be an all NBA guy, which I think we both think he's probably at least second team. [17:55] Thank you. [17:55] Desmond Bain in that same draft was 30%. [17:58] Brunson was 33 for Dallas, but ended up on the Knicks before he became a guy. [18:02] Annanoby on Toronto 23. D. White was 29. [18:06] Siakam, 27. Then, of course, Jokic, 41. Gobert, 27. Draymond, 35. Middleton, 39. And Butler, 30. [18:14] Those are all the guys from the last 15 years that,

[18:17] after pick 20 became guys. [18:20] And he has a chance to be a second team on NBA. [18:23] The Sixers have loved him this whole time, but I just think what he's doing is really special this year. He's going to play the most minutes and the most games at the guard position in 10 years. [18:34] is what he's on pace. The last guy was James Harden, 82 games, 38.1 a game in 2016. [18:41] Like guards don't do this anymore. Play this many minutes, have this much of a burden. And they kind of rise and follow them. He wasn't very good tonight, but he kind of also kept a minute. [18:50] And I just did. Did you ever think he would be this guy? No, no. I mean, I think he is going to make an all NBA team this year. I had him on third team when I just did my my blink test. Look at the team. It's it's a crowded field, even with the health issues. But I think he should make an all NBA team. I don't think anyone thought he would be an all NBA player. That's why he was picked 21st. Remember, they only got him because Mike Muscala hit a bunch of shots in an Oklahoma City game that like the pick to Philadelphia's way. [19:20] Oh, okay. [19:21] Did you think he was going to be this good? Because there became a point, especially when Harden was still there, was like, wow, they really hit this maxi pick. He's good. [19:29] Did you think he was going to be this good? Yeah, I can't say that I expected like 30 a game on good efficiency. Me neither. And I think what proves that that was probably the consensus is he's been in the most improved player conversation for like the last four years. Like every year people are like, again, like, I guess we got to put him up for this award again. Yeah. Yeah. He's got some of the stuff he does is just so unique to him.

[19:52] He's got a floater basically from the foul line that he shoots running straight like a shot put. I don't know anybody else who has that shot. [19:59] The change of speed stuff he has. The teams are so terrified of him now. [20:04] They get a defensive rebound and he has the ball in the backcourt. You can see [20:07] It's almost like football, like when Tyree kills in motion. You can see everybody kind of scrambling around. But he's a really special player. They have this Embiid. Embiid now has this oblique injury, too. [20:18] And Maxey's talked about his frustration with how they're basically these two separate teams. [20:23] I think people are wondering, is this [20:25] Kind of like a playoff team you don't want to see in the playoffs when they get Paul George back and Embiid. I think the style thing is going to kill them ultimately in a series because I don't think they know who they are. [20:35] But long term... [20:37] as a combo, this... [20:39] We don't call them VJ Max, Edgecombe, and Maxie. [20:43] Um, [20:44] It's about as good as it gets for a young combo, I think. Like, they're in great shape. The question for me is, will Daryl Mora be around to see it? Ooh. Will he be around to see it through? Who knows? [20:54] I mean, you'd have to – but we're only 60 games in, and they are clinging to the sixth seed. The race for sixth in the East has gotten pretty spicy, and, like, the whole 7 to 10 thing is a mess. But – [21:05] 60 games in, you'd have to count this season as a success for Philadelphia, I think, given Embiid's been in and out of the lineup and this PG thing. I mean, I don't know. [21:14] how you evaluate, you know, who's at fault for all of the mishaps that continue to befall this franchise. But, [21:20] This is better than I thought they would be after 60 games, and they haven't had great health luck by any stretch. No. What was it, 42 was the over-under? It was the one that really flummoxed you, me, and House. Yeah, we didn't know what to do.

[21:34] You could have said [redacted address]. Yeah, you're right. With Paul George... [21:38] basically missing... [21:40] When you include the injuries at the start of the year and the suspension, he's going to miss over half the season. [21:45] Be it said. [21:46] three separate injuries. [21:48] Um, they've gotten more from Edgecombe than they, I really liked the Rogas. [21:53] I think that Bona is a legitimate rotation guy who I could see in a playoff series. [21:59] Um, [22:01] Yeah, I don't. [22:02] If that's the 2-7 matchup, they match up pretty... [22:06] They're very comfortable against Boston. Even today, all of a sudden that game was six, and they just had these little runs against Boston. I think they like going against Jalen. They have guys to throw at him. They like going against the Boston guards. They did a good job on Pritchard today. But I just think without the size, it's not going to happen. [22:23] Nick Spurs was the other... [22:25] Really interesting one today, which we both watched. It was the first time the Spurs looked like crap. [22:30] in a while, their win streak then. It was also the first time the Knicks really [22:34] You can see the full... [22:36] whatever, uh, [22:38] whatever the blueprint was as they were heading in the trade deadline, not going to overreact because the Knicks had some bad losses over the last couple of weeks. But did you learn anything from that game? [22:47] Uh, [22:48] And... [22:49] I thought it was, first of all, I guess I learned that Muhammad Dior is going to shoot like 23s in a game at some point this season. I actually think he's pretty good, and he's earned himself a look in their postseason rotation. To me, that game, I mean, a lot of Knicks played well in that game. That was a Josh Hart game, and they're going to see this strategy over and over again where teams put their centers, their rim protectors on Josh Hart and just ignore him and put wing players on Cat.

[23:19] from guarding Cat to guarding Brunson when Cat goes out the game. It's like, this guy is in his second year, and this is what he's doing on defense, let alone the offense. That's crazy. But Josh Hart, it was a little funky to start with, and I think the Knicks kind of leaned into, if you're going to ignore Josh Hart, [23:35] We're actually going to bring him up into the action, even though Wemby's on him. And that means we're bringing Wemby into the action. And he's this terrifying alien with a million foot wingspan. And they made the most out of it. Like he scored on the pick and roll. He got open shots for Brunson. He did the Draymond thing, which I think they're going to need to do more if teams treat him like this, which is if you're ignoring me, swing the ball back to me. I'll run a handoff for Mikael Bridges, who hit a three out of this. Landry Shammott got a good three out of it. And I looked it up on the tracking data. [24:05] ball screens Josh Hart has set in any game this season was in this game. And I remember talking to a head coach, maybe – [24:12] Two months ago. [24:13] whose team was in New York to play the Knicks. We sat down and we were having coffee. [24:17] And I was like, so who are you going to put your center on, blah, blah? You're going to do the Hart thing probably, right? Like that's what the matchups make sense for you. Are you going to put your center on Hart? He's like, I don't know, man. Josh Hart feels like he solved that one. And like he's hurt a lot of teams by making open threes and doing Josh Hart things and crashing the glass. And I'm kind of afraid to do it. [24:35] And he didn't do it. And I think the Knicks won the game. But if that conversation stuck in my head is like, [24:41] This is how a team think about game planning for the Knicks. It really starts with Towns and Hart. And the Knicks felt like today they hit a gear with that that they had not hit this season.

[24:53] Also helped San Antonio 26.5% from free. [24:57] You can say this about just about any team, but yeah, the San Antonio clunker. [25:02] He's a little unsustainable. It's also the way to beat OKC. [25:06] Hey, could you guys miss 75% of your threes? That would really help us. [25:11] on the Knicks. Okay. [25:13] Larry David was there. They kept showing him. [25:16] During the game. [25:17] I'm reasonably sure that was his first... [25:20] or second time back, but I think it was his first time back since the game. [25:25] where he went to the Halliburton. Oh, he was there? [25:28] The comeback game and the three that went all the way up and down. And he was supposed to stay for two games and flew back after that game. He was so traumatized. So I think it was an emotional return for LD. [25:39] Wow. Back at MSG. I didn't realize that. Yeah, it was. I mean, the Knicks fans still talk about that Halliburton game. Like I was talking about the 86 World Series, the Buckner game. Like it was that traumatic. I mean, you're not kidding because I think it's faded recently because we're just in the dog days of the season. But early in the season when I would go to MSG and they would be up like 14 in the fourth quarter and another team would go on like a 5-0 run. You could hear these murmurings in the crowd. [26:09] eighth game of the season. What do you also, where do, oh, it's that game. It's in their heads a little bit. [26:14] One of the most traumatizing losses since we've been alive for the NBA. It's easily in the top five. And we've both watched the game since. It's an absolutely incredible rewatch. All right, I'm going to zip through a couple random dorky NBA things.

[26:30] Could I just say before you do [26:33] I'm just so, I'm really happy that I got to share the Kata game with you. That's what I was thinking the entire second half. There's one, one day I'm going to get to see the sad bill meme. If we keep doing these after Celtics games. And I really want to see the sad bill meme, like in person or on the Zoom. This, I just, the whole thing, I was thinking, no one in the world, [26:53] is going to be happier that Kata had a career game and we had to spend nine minutes watching a woman get kicked in the face by B.J. Edgecombe because of a review. [27:01] and make us reconsider who should be sitting sideline. Do we need a protective net? I'm prepared for every dumb conversation possible about this. That lady was a hero sitting, staying in the seat too. [27:14] No complaints. I thought Tariko did a great job of being like, look at her toughen out. She's going to stay the last four minutes. She's going to go to the medical tent. Even she was sitting there like, [27:24] What is Secaucus doing? Is nobody there? Did they all go get a coffee break? Why is this taking eight fucking minutes to resolve this? Can we get on with it? I'm bleeding. Can we get on with the game? I need an ice pack. 45 seconds max for a review. [27:39] Just tell me that rule doesn't work. [27:41] We don't know in 45 seconds. Keep the call as stands. Let's move on. All right. [27:47] This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. [27:49] Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. [27:56] New Whole Foods Market Peach Apricot Rose Italian Soda.

[28:00] Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango yuzu chantilly cake. [28:07] But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. [28:25] If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time? Or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With Sleep Score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions, and sleep duration. Then, every morning it combines these factors into an easy-to-understand score from 1 to 100. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from OK to very high. Know your Sleep Score with Apple Watch. iPhone 11 or later required. [28:55] Thank you. [28:56] Random dorky NBA stuff. Let's go. [29:00] Have the Thunder officially become villains? [29:03] Did this happen? [29:05] Are we here? [29:06] I'll give you some of the case and then you tell me. [29:09] All the picks that they have... [29:12] Just the fact that they're successful, but then have this war chest too. [29:15] Sam Presti, how everybody else in the league now is mad at Sam Presti for a variety of reasons, including that he's now... [29:23] uh, anti-tanking when he used to be pro-tanking and whatever. Uh, is your phone ringing yet? Or is it, do you have it on mute?

[29:31] It's off. All the foul baiting, especially from SGA. That became a thing this year. [29:36] It's a boring commercial. Just bad commercials starring the OKC people. I don't think people like that. They stole the team from Seattle, has to be mentioned. Wow, you are all in. And then the coup de grace, Lou Dort, the dirtiest guy in the league. [29:50] Just hands down. [29:51] If we're handing that out, and if that's in the awards, 30th player of the year, Ludo wins. [29:57] That was the dirtiest thing anyone did this year. It was inexcusable. I can't believe you did it. [30:01] It was a play to try to hurt another player. It wasn't. [30:05] in the flow of a game where somebody's up in the air and they make a mistake. This was like a deliberate [30:09] I'm going to try to [30:11] fuck with Nicole Jokic and maybe hurt him. [30:14] It's my interpretation of that play. There's no other interpretation. [30:18] I feel like you're taking it personally almost because it was Jokic. I feel like you felt it was a personal attack on you. Listen, Liam Beer, there's been guys over the years – [30:27] They crossed the line. [30:29] Are you actually trying to hurt somebody else who's in this game? And I thought that crossed the line. And I couldn't believe the OKC coach was surprised after. [30:38] Maybe he didn't see the clip. I did enjoy Mark Dagnall's reaction after the game. Like, I just want to know, is that a flagrant two now? We're doing that every time it's a flagrant two? Because if we're doing it every time, I just want to know it's a flagrant two. And then that's as far as he would go. He wouldn't say anything else about it. But, I mean, look, it looks... [30:55] It doesn't look like a hard hit when you see it on replay, but that's because we're not taking it from like a 260 pound cinder block in real time. It was, you know, it was a decent hit.

[31:06] I wasn't surprised they upgraded it. [31:09] to a flagrant too. And it was clearly... [31:13] I'm going out of my way. [31:14] to hit you. This is not a natural running motion. This is not a direction anybody would take. Similar to like, you know, we've seen a lot of other plays like that where just guys just decide, I'm going to hit you. And he decided, I'm going to hit Jokic. Are they villains? I mean... [31:29] I think villains are great for the NBA. I would love to see them lean in to becoming villains. That's why I brought this up. They kind of need an identity, right? Remember last year, we were like, how do we talk about these guys? They just play hard. They all like each other. They're leaning into their inner villain now, which I like. I mean. We'll never see Jokic that mad again. And this is a guy who got cheap shot by one of the Morris brothers and then nailed him in the back. And nobody has messed with Jokic since for like, what, five years? Has anybody done anything to him since then? [31:59] worried his brothers were going to be at the game and something like who knows what's going to happen if the Jokic brothers are at the game but the eyes... [32:07] Those eyes will live on forever. I mean, that is an all-time meme, whatever. Like, those eyes... [32:14] I don't look at the first beer after trade deadline with the intensity that Nicole Jokic stared at Lou Dort with. Like, I mean, that was... [32:24] That was a lusty, aggressive stare. [32:28] Yeah, there's three problems for Dort. One is that [32:31] He saw Jokic, sized him up, and then pretended he didn't see him. [32:35] Then he stepped back into him. And then he swung his right foot around to make sure...

[32:40] Daddy got him. [32:41] And there was history from the before earlier in the game with them. And in general, it was a chippy game. And I think one of the lessons from this week, there's real animosity in some of these games now. Oh, that was an intense game from the beginning. Piston Spurs was just like. How about Pistons everybody? [33:02] Pistons Cavs. [33:04] Was also, because I thought Friday night was awesome, but Piston Cavs was also really chippy and kind of angry. Sure. [33:13] Not a lot of, not a lot. We've kind of moved out of the banana boat era with the leak. [33:18] I feel like there's a lot of animosity now in these games again. I love it. I think we all agree we would like to see more of that. On the Thunder villain thing, I will say some of it is envy, right? Teams are just envious about how well the Thunder have built their team. [33:35] I will also say when Chris Finch now, what are we two months into this gave his they're very frustrating to play against because they get to the line a lot and you can't touch Shea. Remember that press conference Chris Finch gave it like there was before and after stats about Shea's free throws. [33:51] I heard from so many people around the league being like, [33:55] Chris Finch is a hero. We finally said it. Somebody said it like there's something there's something to this. [34:01] It was like the Stillwater drummer in Almost Famous when they start going off on Russell Hammond and he's like, finally the truth in the bus or the plane, whatever it was. I like it. I think the Thunder have an identity again. Their fans are going to eat this up. I'm sure this segment will get cut out and put somewhere and I'll be a villain like poor Justin Termini who's...

[34:24] Enemy number one in Oklahoma City. Before all their players got hurt, part of being a villain is knowing how goddamn good you are and wanting to crush everybody in front of you. And before all their players got hurt, they played like a team who was like, bring it on. We're going to destroy your soul in this basketball game. And I loved that. That's exactly how you want a champion to approach its potential repeat season. [34:48] Well, you talked with Legs about this little Case and Wallace mini leap in February, which has been noticeable. [34:56] I don't know how much is there. [34:59] Big picture, but I've increased the ceiling in the building by a couple stories. [35:03] Like, because... [35:05] It's clear to me now, [35:07] They're going to have some tax stuff. They also have to figure out how to pay him. [35:10] Dort's got the team option next year. [35:13] And I wonder, like, is... [35:15] Is Dorton, Caruso, and Wallace on this team a year from now? My bet would be no. They'll try to patch... [35:21] the picks that they have, and they'll try to save money that, and then give the money back to Wallace. But Wallace, like what, give me... [35:27] The best statistical season of his career. Give me a guess. [35:31] 18 and 5. [35:33] Maybe something like that. Do you think that's the best? 22 and five. I don't know. I mean, it just depends. It just depends where he goes. Right. Like it depends what team he's on. [35:43] See, I was ready to get to like 22, 7, and 5. You might be right. You're better at projecting. You're more adventurous and therefore better. I just wonder how much is there. Could he be... [35:52] Obviously, if he's on this team, he's never going to be the lead guard.

[35:56] But could he be like a real sidekick? Somebody who's 37, 38 minutes a game. Three threes a game. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's 20. Maybe it's closer to you. It's somewhere between 18 and 22. But I wouldn't have said this three months ago, I don't think. But to your point. [36:13] I think people just like recency bias and just people got a lot going on in their lives. [36:18] I think people have kind of forgotten how good the Thunder can really be. And there's going to be a week when they get everybody back. And it's going to be like, oh, God. Oh, yeah, that's right. That guy, too. And that guy is coming off the bench. And that guy is a luxury item. And like Jared McCain, who they swipe from the Sixers, is suddenly like the 13th man on the team. But he's playing great, too. [36:38] And honestly, not the worst thing in the world to not put all these miles on these guys when you're going to have a five or six year run, which I've been thinking about a lot. Talking about that five year Warriors run. I forget what podcast we talked about it on here, but... [36:54] Those years are like seven years crammed into five years when you had those playoff games. And you look back at the history of the league. [37:00] And all of these teams that had these four or five year intense runs like that, [37:04] And the guys would... [37:05] half the time break down at the end of them. It certainly happened with the Celtics in the 80s, and it happened to the Pistons. By the time they got to 91, it was just off a cliff. And [37:16] The Bulls kind of avoided it because Jordan went and played baseball for that year and a half. [37:20] kind of pushed it off. I was thinking about the other day because Robert Horry was saying how he thought the 94 and 95, he said on some podcast, the 94 and 95 Rockets would have beaten the Bulls.

[37:30] which, [37:31] In a vacuum is... [37:33] A relatively insane statement. But when you think about the Bulls coming off three straight titles and losing Horace Grant, [37:40] I do think the Rockets would have beaten them one of those years. Is he saying like if Jordan never left? He's like if Jordan was there, we would have beaten them both times. I don't know about both times. I don't think that's – both times is probably crazy. But, I mean, eight titles in a row? Like that was not – that was probably not going to happen. It's not sustainable. Even people with the Bulls, like Steve Kerr has said, he doesn't think that they would have won all those titles. [38:05] Um, [38:06] Speaking of nuggets, just a quick one. [38:08] Okay. [38:10] Cam Johnson concern scale. [38:14] I was DEFCON 2 and then the 0 for 4 today and I might now be at DEFCON 1. [38:20] It's been bad. Friday night, I was on a couple different techs. [38:24] During that OKC Denver game, three minutes left, I texted, this game is going to come down to a wide open Cam Johnson 3. No way. Because... [38:32] Yeah, I have it. I have the text. Wow. And the reason I said that, [38:36] was because... [38:38] He's been shaky enough in these games. [38:42] that they were clearly going to help off him. [38:45] in the biggest possession of the game and take their chances with him in the corner. And it's exactly what happened and he missed it. [38:50] And it was a tie game with seven seconds left. This is why you go and trade him, a trade that both of us loved. And he said, hold on, hold on. Don't lump me in with you. I thought Michael Porter Jr. was swept away like he was like. I just lumped you in. What are you going to do about it? I said what I said.

[39:08] I lumped you in. I don't care if you didn't want to be lumped in. I needed company with me in-house. So you didn't like it. You like Porter? I liked it because it also allowed them to get Valanchunas and fill out their bench a little bit. And it was clear some sort of financial relief was going to come. I just thought people were like wildly underestimating how good Michael Porter Jr. was in the trade and how important his shooting was. [39:30] For Denver. You're right. I also didn't think Cam, Cam Johnson's moving so tentatively in some ways that I almost, you just have to wonder if he's still not healthy all the way back from the various ailments that have hurt him this season. Cause he just, beyond the shooting numbers, which are actually for the season. All right. [39:47] He just is not adding any like to their ball movement, to their offense. It just isn't there. [39:53] I looked up his crunch time stats and he's one for eight in crunch time. Small sample size. Small sample size. But turns 30 this week. [40:01] But, um... [40:02] I just think they need him. [40:04] They need them at the end of these games. They've had so many winnable games. It's so weird to see a Nuggets team. [40:09] What if there's still like five, we did this last week, we were saying how there are 500 [40:14] There's still 500 over like 35 games now. [40:17] And they've blown so many games... [40:19] at the end of games, which I just didn't think was possible. Now, they have Gordon's going to come back. That's going to change things. Watson, I'm not freaking out. No. But the Cam Johnson thing is significant, though, because he's somebody that if he... [40:32] He's not going to be out there in that spot when we're in the playoffs. [40:36] Who is it going to be Hardaway? Who's it going to be? Who's it going to be in that corner of

[40:42] that is going to make or break like a game four on the road somewhere. [40:47] Because he's lost my trust, unfortunately. Well, Gordon and Watson answer a lot of those questions, but... [40:54] I mean, Jokic had some more goofy turnovers by his standards today. I think he had five turnovers. He's had a few turnovers in all these games where it's like, [41:03] The defense is on his wavelength. I don't want to say they outthink him, but he doesn't outthink them. They see the pass coming and pick it off, which is unusual for him. [41:12] for him. And right now they just have no size. They're so small. They have no one. They have Christian Brown trying to guard Antony's all right at it. And Cam Johnson trying to guard Julius Randle, who didn't have a great game, but they just don't have any size outside of their centers right now. It is beginning... [41:28] Again, you can't panic, can't overreact because all these guys are coming back, and we'll see if Aaron Gordon can stay healthy. [41:34] But this last month with Jokic and the team not winning as much as you'd expect with Jokic still playing sensationally, [41:41] it does have a feel of like, sometimes it's just like, it doesn't come together. Sometimes it's just not, we're not there yet, but it's, it's on my like radar of like, it might just be the year it doesn't happen. And I expected it to happen. Like, [41:54] Because I do think there's a legitimate great team in here. But sometimes you run out of time to find it. [42:02] I mean, sadly, I'm... [42:04] Deep down feeling the same way. [42:06] The problem here is that Jokic is still having an all-time season and Murray is having the best season of his life. [42:12] And we shouldn't have this many questions. Also, when Gordon comes back,

[42:16] what level of Gordon are we getting? [42:18] And also, is he coming back? We now have, they've played... [42:23] So basically 20, we're at the [42:24] And they're entering the last quarter of the season. [42:27] So he's going to come back and just be thrown into a 4-5 matchup against Minnesota where they're going to need him for like 35 minutes a game. And with a hammy, it's a hammy thing that just feels like it just keeps happening. [42:39] That's the worry is that, [42:42] His combination of size, power on both ends, defensive versatility, and he's now a proven 40-plus percent three-point shooter. [42:50] They don't have anyone who combines all those things. That's why he's such a unique player. They have pieces of them and other players who have weaknesses. They get exploited elsewhere. Um, [42:59] And to get through the West, you need to be pretty damn close to 100% to get through all of these teams. I mean, these are five teams. [43:06] legit, really good teams. Houston, who we're kind of both down on, and I think everybody is, is now in third in the West, and they're whatever you think of them, [43:16] they're going to make you feel some pain over a seven game series, no matter who you are. [43:20] The scary thing for Denver is four or five could be them and Minnesota, a team that loves playing Denver. [43:26] He's very comfortable against them. [43:28] Doesn't mean they're going to beat him. [43:29] And the Lakers now have... [43:31] the same number of losses as Denver? [43:34] And it's been this Lakers season, a team we've written off 700 times. [43:38] And it somehow has the exact same record as... [43:41] as dimmer okay next topic [43:44] Oh, speaking of the West. [43:46] The 7, 8, 9, 10 in the West...

[43:49] is just officially bizarre. Where we have Phoenix at 34 and 26... [43:54] Booker's still out. [43:55] Brooks is out, I guess, for the season. [43:58] Golden State's 31-29, and it's going to be 31-32 in three games. I don't think they've said for the season with the Brooks, but time-wise it gets – I think it was four to six weeks, right? Time-wise it's very close to the last week. I just wanted to be clear. I was like, did I miss something? I don't think I did. Golden State could be under 500 in three games. [44:13] Portland's at 29 and 32. The Clippers are at 27 and 31, but relying on Kawhi and Gardner and – [44:20] Darius Garland, who aren't exactly Lou Gehrig. Clippers are about to win right now, by the way. [44:25] All right, so they'll be 28 and 31. [44:28] Um, [44:29] Portland lost, so they're 29-33. They lost to the Jonathan Kaminga-led Atlanta Hawks by 34 points. Crowd chanting. Thank you, Warriors, during the Kaminga game as he had another one. Portland has a weird... [44:43] Abdi, a back injury thing that's going to knock him out of any possible NBA stuff. Not that he was... [44:48] going to make it anyway. [44:50] Golden State just said Curry needs at least 10 more days. That's starting to look a little, get a little whiff of, a little tanky whiff. [44:58] Oh. [44:59] I wouldn't. I don't know. [45:04] Do you rush him back to play him hurt? Or do you be like, you know what? Let's get the 10th pick in the draft. [45:11] Okay. I mean, that's a, I mean, so you got to lose in the play-in then. You got to like, there's zero chance that any of these teams fall out in the play-in. Yeah. Fuck it. We'll wait.

[45:22] Steph, come back that week if you're healthy. [45:25] Um, [45:26] Give me two teams you think are in the playoffs. 7, 8, 9, 10. Phoenix, Golden State, Portland, and Clippers. Pick two. [45:32] I got to pick two. Two have to make it. Two have to make it. Well, again, I'll tell you what. No one below them is even trying to win. So congratulations to the four play-in teams. Unless one of you passes the Lakers or Nuggets, you are in the play-in with 20 games left. We can celebrate. You can hang a banner. [45:49] I will go. I'll go Suns Clippers. How about that? [45:55] Suns Clippers. [45:56] Darius Garland coming back tomorrow. Kawhi's Kawhi. I don't feel great about it, but I'll go Suns Clippers. I don't love this Steph injury, and the team just feels like [46:07] There's just a lot of like DeAnthony Melton and Guy Santos and Quentin Post going on, and all those guys are actually playing okay, but it just feels a little like a rickety mishmash of whatever. [46:18] The box score is alarming. [46:20] The one yesterday, they got killed by the Lakers. The box score is like, oh my God. [46:24] This is like a Brooklyn Nets lineup. [46:26] I would also say Suns-Quippers-Trips. [46:29] I really tried to talk myself into Portland. I watched the entire Portland-Charlotte game. [46:34] My Hornets were playing at 10 o'clock Pacific time. I had to... [46:37] I had to test drive that one. Portland really wanted the game and came in with... [46:43] a really hardcore defensive plan against, and I don't want to waste our Charlotte stuff because we're doing deep dive later, but really like, [46:49] It was the first time I've seen a team be like, here's our strategy to take out Knipple.

[46:53] And they were doing all this stuff to try to take them out. Drew Holiday was playing really hard. I like Klingen. They have good wings. Scoot Henderson, there's a lot of signs there. [47:02] that he's [47:03] Don't sell your scoot stock yet. Don't shake your head. No, I did a whole scoot Brandon Miller segment last two weeks ago and talked about scoot. I just didn't think that was a particularly good scoot game. [47:14] Well, just there's some signs. They're getting more comfortable. They're giving him the ball and letting him do stuff. It would be nice if more of the signs went into the basket. But, you know. I'm just trying to be class F full of scoop. [47:24] I've been admitting defeat on the Brandon Miller scoop thing. [47:28] I'm officially admitting defeat. There's no other move. I mean, there's no other move. Brandon Miller. You're checking in on that one. [47:36] Brandon Miller. [47:38] It's tremendous. It's really good. [47:40] I love Brandon Miller. [47:41] Like, he's really looking Paul George, Jalen Brown-ish. [47:46] offensively like that could be like I think he could be 26 a game if he could stay healthy at some point in his career alright so we both say Phoenix is [47:57] and the Clippers, and yet the Clippers could, Kawhi could be gone tomorrow. [48:04] Okay. [48:05] I mean, yes, but if you're asking me to pick them, it's just, it's a little bit of a, everything about it is weird, including that there is no 11th place team. You can just erase the last part of the standings unless you're doing the reverse standings. You don't even need to look at them. [48:23] Well, New Orleans might make a late search here. They're only 20 back. They're one of the hottest teams in the Westphard. They're 11 games behind the Clippers in the last column. Can they make that up? I don't know. New Orleans played really well. Just killing the Hawks pick. Zion got hurt again, though. Not again. Zion got hurt just as we got used to Zion playing. He's now hurt again. Hopefully it's minor. But this is just the story of some of these guys' careers. I hope we learned a lesson from this Pelicans pick.

[48:49] with the Hawks. [48:50] Because we've seen this situation before. The Celtics were in it one year with the Cleveland pick. [48:55] We've seen these teams... [48:57] have these seemingly super choice picks. [49:01] And the time to trade them is November, December. [49:03] when they have maximum... [49:05] Look how good this pick's going to be. Because the truth is, [49:09] Thank you. [49:10] The team whose pick you have has no incentive to stop trying. [49:14] In the last 30 games of the season. [49:16] And they start playing some of these other tanking teams. And they're like, fuck it. What do we care? And they'll start winning. And all of a sudden, you're in the ninth pick instead of the fourth pick. And I think Atlanta probably should have. [49:28] sent that pick back in a while ago. It'll be the ninth pick. If you watch the Pelicans, if a person who knows nothing about the NBA watched the Pelicans play any of the other seven to eight teams who are tanking, [49:40] Right now, they'd be like, well, that's got to be the best team in the league, right? Like this team's got to be by far the best team. They're so much better than this other team. [49:48] Some of the tanking stuff's great. [49:50] And then Sacramento's taking it a step further. There was some weird internet rumor about... [49:56] that they want to sign Westbrook for next year, that he's become a leader of the team, Sacramento. [50:01] Goldsberry sent us that. [50:03] And... [50:04] my response was that I'd [50:06] I think him being the GM is the natural outcome for all of this. [50:09] But putting him in charge of the team. [50:13] I guess he's now, I mean, he's a King player. You have to be a King's player to really be in consideration to replace an established GM, a former King's player. You have to put your time in. It's like prison. It's like you have to be in the yard for a couple years before they let you work in the library. I didn't even have the heart to respond to the text. I just, it's just too sad.

[50:35] Would you say it's completely inconceivable that Russell Westbrook could someday be the Sacramento Kings GM? No way. [50:44] I'm surprised there are not odds on it already. Maybe we could do it with those weird prediction markets. [50:50] Calci? Put that bet down. Yeah. Calci. Just put some Calci money on that. Giannis tweets out, by the way, look at Calci today for a new line on Russell Westbrook being the GM. Dropped to 50 to 1. [51:03] on Fandle predictions. Okay, next goofy question. [51:10] What happens if Giannis comes back this week? I'm so excited you brought this up. Miami is the, so right now we have 6, 7, 8, 9. Philly's 31 and 27. Orlando's 31 and 28. [51:23] Miami's 32 and 29. So they're all grouped together at 6, 7, 8. [51:27] America's team, the Charlotte Hornets, is 30 and 31. Can't wait to do the deep dive with them. They're the nine seed right now. [51:33] Atlanta is 31 and 31. Actually, they're the nine seed right now. Charlotte's 10. And then Milwaukee is 26 and 33. So they are... [51:41] a couple of losses behind basically everybody. [51:44] Milwaukee was 8-3 in their last 11 until they lost the stupid game they lost today. [51:50] Giannis is looming. [51:52] He could play the last 20 games. [51:55] So if they go... [51:57] I don't know, could they get to 40 wins? It's possible they go 14 and six. [52:04] What happens? Could they make, all they'd have to do is jump one team and get to the 10th seed, and then it's just playing playoff games. To me, Giannis is not dead yet. No, that little, this is the, I think people wrote off the Bucs and kind of forgot about the Bucs, and the Eastern Conference let the Bucs stay alive, because that stretch they had before All-Star was...

[52:26] was absolutely massive because it gave them the margin for error to come back to earth. And this was a comeback to earth weekend for the Bucs. Two horrible losses, including a blowout to the Bulls who had not won in literally a month. And yet they're just still two games back in the Lost Column behind Charlotte and two games back behind Atlanta. Four games back in the Heat. But all of these teams, like just look at their records in the last 10 games, Orlando 6-4, Miami 5-5, Hawks 6-4. None of them have run away from the Bucs. [52:56] us. [52:57] the team makes sense. It makes enough sense to make up two games on an Atlanta Hawks team who only like kind of makes sense as a basketball team. Orlando is, that's Orlando and Miami are taller hills to climb, but not on, not teams without problem. I mean, Norm Powell just got hurt. He's going to miss a little bit of time. The sooner he comes back, the more interesting this gets because, [53:20] If they get into the play-in and they're going full throttle with Giannis, [53:24] even if they're coming from the 9-10 seed, [53:26] They got a hell of a chance to get in. And then it gets real interesting. Then it turns into NBA Cup where it's just like, you have to be honest tonight. [53:34] Where are you going home? [53:35] And that's it. And Giannis really cares and actually wants to be in the playoffs. [53:41] This episode is brought to you by Fox One. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World Cup live in 4K for just $19.99 a month with three days free. Build your own multi-view, choose up to three streams, and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights, and instant replays. The FIFA World Cup, streaming live on Fox One, offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions.

[54:10] Send Help is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. We're somewhere in the Gulf of Thailand. Getting us out of here should be your focus. I'm your boss. You work for me. We're not in the office anymore. It's bold, relentless, and endlessly rewatchable. [54:27] Discover why critics give it 93% on Rotten Tomatoes. You're so fired. Oh, am I? No help is coming. Send Help, rated R. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. [54:39] So, [54:40] Philly, Orlando, Miami, Charlotte, Atlanta, Milwaukee, pick three. [54:45] That get into the playoffs? Yeah, just pick three right now for 6, 7, 8. I'm not even going to look at schedules. I will do Philly... [54:52] Orlando... [54:55] No, no, no. [54:57] Ooh, this is actually hard. Yeah, I know. This is hard. I'll go... [55:01] Fuck it. I'm going to go Philly. [55:03] Miami, Charlotte. [55:05] Orlando's out. [55:08] which would just be the most wildly disappointing outcome for almost any [55:12] Any team. So I would have had Orlando in the Miami spot there. I think Philly and Charlotte, I have them in. [55:18] And Charlotte, I can't wait to do the deep dive. [55:21] I mean, Miami just Miami is their way in. It's just that's the thing. Did you see the Houston? Any of the Houston thing? I did. [55:30] I saw the whole game. Until that game... [55:32] I was like, they're going to, you know, this is not going to be the year for them, whatever. [55:36] Um, [55:38] I don't know. They showed, they had a little feistiness in that game, and we always see around now there's one team that kind of gets hot or does whatever, and I don't know if they're that good, but that

[55:51] I don't know, you watch them and the team kind of makes sense now that when they have everybody and if they can get Hero going a little bit. So I would probably say Philly, Miami, Charlotte. [56:00] Orlando, [56:02] More likely they make the playoffs or they change coaches for the end of the season? [56:06] I will go make the playoffs because I think I just – the history of this front office is that they act slowly, and I think they will now – especially given how much time Franz in particular has missed, I think they give this thing – [56:20] Till the end of the season. [56:21] That was an awful loss today. [56:25] They're up seven at halftime. They lose by 14. [56:28] bad. Atlanta doesn't have their pick. [56:33] so no real reason for them to throw it in. That's why I like, [56:38] Milwaukee, if they were 28 and 31 instead of 26 and 33, I'd be more excited. I think they're probably a little bit too far back. [56:46] I was thinking with the trade, [56:48] This is such a strange situation for them to be in, right? It's like they're going to get the one seed. They might have the best record in the whole league. [56:54] And the prize for getting the one seed could be either Philadelphia with Embiid and George back. [57:00] Miami, the fucking heat culture, weird voodoo Miami team. [57:05] Charlotte. [57:06] who's been awesome for 32 games now, like a legitimate kind of offensive juggernaut, [57:13] And none of those matchups are fun. [57:16] Like none of them. [57:18] It's great. That's what the playoffs are supposed to be. Let's not have any pushovers. I mean, I think...

[57:23] I think [57:24] Orlando would be a pushover. I don't think they'd be a pushover. If they were fully healthy... [57:30] I don't think there'd be a pushover. [57:32] I think the Hawks would be a pushover for Detroit. I just think... Orlando's not going to be fully healthy, and you know they're not going to be fully healthy. Cross that off. Unlikely. [57:42] When Suggs plays two games in a row, it's like a shock. It really makes you feel good when you turn on the Magic game and Suggs is playing. I love watching Suggs play. I'm like, all right, this team just became 25% more entertaining to watch. Yeah. [57:54] um, [57:57] Cleveland, who won today, barely. [58:01] Another dorky combo. [58:03] If you're Cleveland, do you care if you're just... [58:05] You're the four seed. You play Toronto in round one. Do you care? [58:09] No, I don't think you care about your seed at all. If you're Cleveland, you just need to get as healthy as possible. And you know what you're being judged on and, [58:16] I wouldn't stress about [58:19] three, four, one, two, all you've had your ups and downs against all the teams currently above you in the standings. Just, you just got to play. [58:26] On Fando, they were plus 125 for the four seed and 11-1 for the five seed. [58:31] If I'm them, [58:33] I just want everyone running full steam. [58:36] Second week in April. [58:39] I don't care if I'm playing Toronto. [58:41] And I don't mind playing Detroit. [58:44] I think they would think they can beat Detroit. They have more offense, more stuff to bring to the table. [58:50] Schroeder. [58:51] had really had a chip on his shoulder Friday night. I thought that just to bring him off the bench, like possessed doing that crazy shooter stuff, I thought it'd be fun. But I think that team, you know, the Sam Merrill piece has...

[59:05] Defrade the fact that they missed on DeAndre Hunter. [59:08] Dean Wade is, I guess, just an exit stage, right? First of all, he's been starting for them for the most part. [59:17] Since the team got fully formed again. [59:21] When he plays... [59:23] And decently, they are very hard to beat. He's a minor role player, but they really like him, and they keep giving him chances, and they keep seeing him through these months where it feels he hits two threes in a month. And then I'll have a game where it's like he's four of six from three, [59:38] And that's all he does other than play great defense. But, yeah, but it helps. But at least they turned Hunter into Schroeder and Keon Ellis. Like, at least they got two guys that can play for them in that deal. [59:50] Body language doctor likes their chemistry too. I like some of the stuff I saw on the sidelines from Mitchell and Harden. [59:56] Looks like Mitchell and Harden like each other. Honeymoon Harden is just, it's really kicked in. I don't know. Did you create Honeymoon Harden? Is that yours? I think I did. I'll take it. Next topic. [1:00:07] I texted this to you, so you're actually prepared for this one. [1:00:10] I normally like to sneak attack you with topics. [1:00:13] perimeter defenders better than the Thompson's. All right. Let me bring up my list. [1:00:18] I asked you to make a list. Who's actually better than these guys? Perimeter defenders. We're not talking big guys. [1:00:23] We're not talking... [1:00:25] tiny guards or small guards? No, I don't. The answer is I'm not sure anybody is, although I think they both are [1:00:33] no player is perfect but i i think here so here are the names i wrote down as just like these are the guys you at least have to consider tell me how many names you wrote down before you tell me the names i wrote like 15 names down because i go big i go big all the time but i i wrote down 10 names yeah

[1:00:48] Cut. [1:00:49] Who is it? [1:00:52] Caruso. [1:00:54] Yep. [1:00:54] They were not my first name. No, I just went down standings order. Okay. And I'm going to omit some ones that I don't think are serious. Well, the good news is the fan bases won't take that personally at all if you forget somebody. So I'm just going to say, like, I'm not going to mention Hugo Gonzalez after saying I'm not mentioning him. Sorry, Hugo, you don't get into this one. The llama haircut doesn't get you in. [1:01:15] I think Jada McDaniels deserves a word. [1:01:20] Derek White, [1:01:21] Doesn't have the size, but... [1:01:23] I left him off because I think there are certain guys that he probably can't guard. [1:01:28] I still think Pete Kawhi, [1:01:31] needs to be on this list. He can't bring it every night, but when he really, really brings it, he might still be the best perimeter defender in the NBA for a game or a quarter. [1:01:42] Dyson Daniels, [1:01:44] I left him off. You're running out, and I don't mind leaving him off. You run out. I think Peyton Watson could get into this conversation. OG Ananobi. [1:01:55] Had him. [1:01:56] I'd come around. [1:01:58] Kamara is on my list. That's a good one. I had Scottie Barnes. [1:02:02] He's on my list too. I was waiting. I wanted you to bring up Scotty Barnes, but I had him on my list. Here's my descending order. [1:02:10] I had McDaniels first. [1:02:13] I had the Dorton Caruso combo, Castle, Inanobi. [1:02:17] I had Kamara, Kawhi, Barnes, and Bridges all next to each other.

[1:02:20] And I had Ann Edwards... [1:02:22] Because I think when he really wants to guard for possession, I think he's as good as anybody. I'm not saying he's doing it all game. [1:02:29] If it's 30 seconds left and I need to play defense, and I have him and McDaniels. I just saw it. I went to the Clipper game the other night. And the reason I have McDaniels so high is, [1:02:38] is he snatched Ben Matherin's soul from his body for two hours. He just, he reached inside his heart and pulled it out. And by the fourth quarter, Matherin, who's like a really confident guy, like walks around with his chest out. And it really seems Alpha 8 was just like deer in the headlights. [1:02:57] And couldn't solve it. [1:03:00] McDaniels is terrifying, and he's the only one I've seen in person who's [1:03:04] other than when Kawhi gets into that. I will now take the ball when he gets into that mode. Um, [1:03:10] He's the only one I've seen on the level with the Thompsons. [1:03:13] But Castle, even though he guarded Durant, which was one of the great things, the great random things of the season, I'm not sure if there are certain guys that could he guard Durant [1:03:22] Bigger guys like Jalen Brown. [1:03:24] Bigger physical forwards. I'm not sure he's big enough to guard those guys, but McDaniels is. But you cannot say enough. I mean, you cannot say enough. [1:03:33] about how good Castle and Harper are as defenders this soon into their career. Because the experience factor, although the Thompson twins are not super experienced either, is what makes it hard to put them on this sort of apex level. But those guys, I mean...

[1:03:50] They guard up in size so well. You put them on, they were on Brandon Ingram in a recent Spurs-Raptors game. Dylan Harper closed the game on Brandon Ingram and kind of clamped them a little bit. And I'd mentioned how Castle guarded Cat and Brunson in the same game. Like, they are up for, the Durant game I'd forgotten about when he kind of bodied up Durant. And, like, Durant was like, what's happening? Is this a foul? What's going on? They are big and rangy, and they want all the smoke. Like, those guys are so far ahead of the curve defensively. [1:04:20] Easy. [1:04:22] Jalen Brown is in the vicinity for this if it's one of those games where he's really fired up to play defense. [1:04:29] But it's bigger guys. It's like Luka type guys. It's the more physical type of wings that he's really good at defending and really has been for the last few years. I would not. [1:04:39] respectfully not put Jalen Brown in this conversation. I know. I'm just saying certain games. [1:04:43] The other one... [1:04:45] And I thought about this the other day at this, at this Cooper game I was at, I was like, first of all, [1:04:50] Three inches taller than I was prepared for in person. I don't know why the TV made me think he was like 6'1", but I felt like he was the same height as Anthony Edwards. I can figure it out. [1:04:59] Big, big shoulders and just [1:05:02] When they had... [1:05:04] Him, [1:05:06] McDaniels and Edwards all out there at the same time. [1:05:09] against a team that really didn't have a point guard, Chris Dunn was the only sort of [1:05:13] point guard on the Clippers. [1:05:15] Everyone was terrified to bring the ball up. [1:05:17] Nobody was happy about it. [1:05:19] Um, but I thought that was interesting. He's a great fit. You know, I mean, you know, he's furious right now.

[1:05:25] Oh. [1:05:26] Dylan Brooks is furious. Dylan Brooks is going to pick up the rare podcast technical for arguing. So he's just off the list. He's hurt. We don't even consider him. I had him honorable mention. He's hurt. We might not see him again this season. Well, this leads to the next question. [1:05:41] Pick one as a defender. [1:05:44] Houston Thompson or Detroit Thompson? [1:05:48] Houston Thompson. I think Houston Thompson is ahead. I don't like doing the brothers thing. It makes me sad to pit the brothers against each other like this. But it hurts my soul. But I'm picking Ahmed Thompson. I think he... [1:06:01] scales down positionally a little easier than Assar does. Assar might guard up a little bit better, but I think Ahmed Thompson can guard anybody. And he just, his speed, I mean, they're both unbelievable, but I'd pick Ahmed. [1:06:13] So I give him a slight edge as well. [1:06:16] I think Asar is, is, uh, [1:06:19] the single scariest guy to bring the ball up against. [1:06:23] When he's really in, I'm going to try to get a steal as you bring the ball up mode, I think he's number one. [1:06:28] Who's scarier than him? You know, I was watching a game. It was a tank-off game. [1:06:33] And I watched it because I just, this is what I do. I watched Grizzlies Kings. Oh, yeah. [1:06:38] Scotty Pippen Jr. Oh, he's another good one. I shit you not. [1:06:41] Didn't he have three steals in a row or something? Four. Four consecutive steals while the Kings were bringing the ball up. And it was almost like... [1:06:49] Let's just cancel the game. If this is what's going to happen, send everybody home, refund the tickets. It's a great night out for Scottie Pippen Jr. Game over.

[1:06:59] See, that's another guy. Like, why wasn't... [1:07:01] Why didn't a contender try to get him? [1:07:03] He's been injured the whole year. I don't care. [1:07:07] It's like free second round pick for him, right? Is Memphis turning down a second round pick for Scottie Pippen? I don't think so. [1:07:14] And he's been hurt most of the year. I wanted to see him in a playoff series. Okay, next question. [1:07:20] So the All-MBA... [1:07:22] It feels like we've separated to Yoka, Jess G8, Cade, and Wemby. [1:07:27] are, [1:07:28] levitating in that top group now. And then we have the next five [1:07:33] of Ant and Mitchell and Jalen and Luca and Maxie in some order. [1:07:37] And Mitchell, John LeBrightness down. [1:07:40] Aunt Mitchell, Jalen, Luke of Maxie are in the mix. [1:07:44] There's a first team spot open, but then the next question is, I only listed nine guys. Who is the inside track for the 10th spot? [1:07:53] If I gave you Brunson, [1:07:55] Kawaii. [1:07:56] Jamal Murray. [1:07:58] Durant, Durant, Barnes, [1:08:01] Amen, Thompson, et cetera, et cetera. [1:08:04] Who's the 10th best player in the league right now from an all-NBA standpoint, in your opinion? Assuming eligibility, Kawhi Leonard. [1:08:14] Okay, I agree with you. And then I put Brunson next. So Brunson, when I did this, I had Brunson, Maxie. I had Maxie third team. [1:08:23] Oh, so you have Maxie out of that group and Brunson in the group? [1:08:26] I had Kawhi second team when I did my draft of NBA teams. So...

[1:08:31] All right, so there's nine plus Brunson, Kawhi, [1:08:34] Murray and Duren, that's 13%. [1:08:37] which means there's two spots left for everybody. Not to mention we might lose some eligibility, guys. We've already lost Curry. Booker's at 16 now. [1:08:47] Not that he was going to make it anyway, but he's probably getting bounced. Jokic only has two left. [1:08:52] Wemby has four left. [1:08:54] Kawhi, I think, has four. Avdi is going to be out. [1:08:57] We might not have enough All-NBA guys is, I guess, my bigger point. Well, you didn't mention Durant. [1:09:03] I didn't mention Durant. [1:09:05] I mean, you've got to mention Durant. [1:09:09] You're not going to put Durant on third team All-NBA? You're going to put other... Okay. I mean... [1:09:14] I didn't say I wouldn't. Were you on the text thread? Were you mentioned? [1:09:20] It wasn't. [1:09:21] Okay. [1:09:22] I take stuff like the, whatever the hell happened in All-Star Weekend, I think has to count in your All-NBA candidacy. [1:09:28] Well, you know what else counts? Where's the story of the year? 26. I get it. On 50, 40, 90 shooting. [1:09:34] Yeah, he's I had him. [1:09:36] I have 13 guys listed. [1:09:39] Then look, I'll even show you. [1:09:41] bubble Durant top guy so he would be on my third team if the season ended today you didn't even mention him [1:09:48] Well, he's in my bubble list with Durant, Barnes, Thompson. I mentioned him as a bubble guy. [1:09:53] Okay. [1:09:53] Um, [1:09:55] And I don't know if any, the only person that I think... [1:09:58] the nerds might take and grab a hold of.

[1:10:01] And, [1:10:03] grab the flame and start bringing it outside the wall. [1:10:07] I could see a Chet momentum just for the defensive impact. We need two OKC guys in the All-NBA. I could see that. [1:10:15] Unfolding. [1:10:16] Thank you. [1:10:17] I don't know how you feel about that. Yeah, I mean, I could certainly see it unfolding because there is always that groundswell of, well, this team has to have X amount of people, which I don't really believe in. I just... [1:10:28] I've been wanting him to do a little bit more on offense in some of these games without Shea and Jalen Williams and A.J. Mitchell and on and on. Chet hasn't scored 20 points in a game. [1:10:41] Since January 27th. [1:10:44] It's just been too many, like 13, 15, 17. And this is like, look, the defense is unimpeachable. He's unbelievable. The fact that he can shoot threes is a huge spacing boon for their offense. He's amazing. I just think this level of conversation, there's only 15 spots. For me, there's 20 games left, so we'll see. He's just, he's out on the outside looking in. But not by much. It's not like a huge slight, you know, just player 19 or 18 or 17. Yeah. [1:11:12] He's an all-star, not an all-NBA guy. You haven't mentioned one guy that I, maybe you mentioned him when you listed him off, and I missed it, but did you mention Jalen Johnson? [1:11:20] I had him in the bubble list. Okay. [1:11:24] Shea is minus 260 for MVP. [1:11:27] Jokic is plus 450. Kate is 10 to 1. [1:11:31] Inexplicable because if SGA misses five more games, I think Cade's going to win the MVP.

[1:11:36] I can't bet on it. Over Wemby? [1:11:39] Wemby's at 25 to 1. [1:11:41] And, um... [1:11:43] I think the Spurs would have to basically lose two more games the rest of the year and be the ones that have the best record in the league for it to be a serious combo. [1:11:51] I'm not even sure some games if he's the best guy in the game for his team. Even though I know the Detroit game Monday, what he did defensively was incredible. All that stuff. Lucas dropped to 100-1 after he... [1:12:02] Pretty tough week. [1:12:04] for Luca. 100 to 1? [1:12:06] Yeah. [1:12:07] Wow. Oh, that's my next dorky thing I wanted to bring up to you. [1:12:12] And then we're going to do the Charlotte deep dive. [1:12:16] Luca's MVP finishes by year. This is... [1:12:19] This is eighth year. [1:12:22] Didn't finish first year, fourth, second year. [1:12:25] Six third year. [1:12:27] 5th, 8th, [1:12:30] Third, [1:12:32] Didn't get any votes last year. [1:12:34] This is year eight and he's not going to be in the top four. [1:12:38] So he's only had one third place finish and one fourth place finish. [1:12:44] This will be after eight years. [1:12:45] If I had told you this during his rookie year as we watched how good he was, [1:12:51] Would you have ever guessed this? No. And in fact, I feel like I've picked him as my preseason MVP at least twice. He's been like a preseason odds on favorite to win MVP maybe more times than that. And so, yeah, I realize the whole conversation is now shifting into there was a whole will he ever win a championship conversation this year that I feel like is a little bit premature.

[1:13:14] But. [1:13:15] Yeah, I am surprised. Part of it is that, you know, if you look at his game log, he's only cracked 70 games a couple of times. There's some certain COVID-related shortened seasons in there. But it is surprising. I thought he would have won an MVP by now. I thought he would have won. I thought he would have won an MVP for the Dallas Mavericks by now. So everything about what's happening is a little bit surprising. Good point. Yeah, when we're moving into the 2020s, [1:13:39] And if we had had a who is the most likely guy to win one MVP this decade draft, I think he would have been the first pick. [1:13:45] It's just tailor-made. The whole offense is going to revolve around him. His passing does make [1:13:51] most types of players better he's had playoff success basically since he came into the league he's been a good playoff player like going back to the bubble etc it just seemed like absolute no-brainer like you'd be shocked if a guy like this didn't win an mvp [1:14:06] He's 286 and 210 regular season, 287 now, 26 and 29 in the playoffs. [1:14:12] Never has won... [1:14:14] Um, [1:14:17] I think 52 games is his highest with Dallas. [1:14:20] Because he's missed a decent amount of games. He's missed the kinds of numbers of games that turn... [1:14:26] a 55 win team into a 47 win team. [1:14:29] You may think you know McDonald's drinks, but you don't know them like this. From fruity refreshers like the strawberry watermelon refresher and the mango pineapple refresher with popping boba, to crafted sodas like the Sprite Berry Blast with berry flavored Sprite topped with cold foam. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire?

[1:14:52] Six all-new drinks are here. Try them all now at McDonald's. Refreshers contain caffeine. [1:15:00] This episode is brought to you by Perfect Bistro Cat Food. Cats, this ad is for you. Has your human ever called you picky, persnickety, choosy? If so, Perfect Bistro Cat Food is for you. With ingredients like wild-caught tuna and pasture-raised lamb, tantalizing textures, and delectable flavors that meet even the most discerning cat standards. You're not picky, you're just perfectionists. Perfect Bistro, mealtime perfection for every cat. Have your human visit perfectbistro.com. [1:15:30] All right, it's time. [1:15:33] Hornets deep dive. [1:15:35] We're really doing this. [1:15:37] I'm going to start us off with some Hornets facts. [1:15:40] You know all of this. I'm just going to sit back and soak it in. [1:15:45] They haven't made the playoffs in 10 years. [1:15:48] Last time they made the playoffs was the, [1:15:52] last year of Barack Obama's second term. [1:15:55] Since their expansion comeback year in 2005, three playoff appearances. [1:16:00] As a franchise, because for whatever reason, we include the 1988 to 2002, whatever, we're [1:16:07] They haven't won a playoff round since 2002, which was also the year they moved. [1:16:13] They don't have a single number that they could retire this century. [1:16:18] Unless you want to talk yourself into a Kemba Walker night just for the emotional night or Al Jefferson night.

[1:16:25] Kemba would be the one. [1:16:28] They haven't made the Eastern Finals once. [1:16:30] even going back to the morning LJ era. [1:16:33] Thank you. [1:16:34] Just in the last few years. [1:16:38] They drafted Shea Gilgis Alexander 11th and immediately traded him for Miles Bridges in two seconds. I forgot this happened. Oh, yeah. [1:16:48] They drafted Jalen Duren. [1:16:49] And immediately traded him for a future first in three seconds. And the future first became Nick Smith. [1:16:55] Junior. [1:16:57] He took Saloon one pick before Donovan Klingon. [1:17:02] They spent a lottery pick on James Booknight. [1:17:04] So it's a thing that happened. Last year, they were in 1963. [1:17:11] They started out 4-14 this season, so they were 23-77. [1:17:16] in 100 games over two seasons. [1:17:20] And since then, something magical has happened. They're now 30 and 31. [1:17:23] Their last 32 games, Zach Lowe, 21-11. [1:17:27] Their first overall net rating plus 9.8 in the last 32 games of any NBA team. First at offensive rating, 121.4, which would be... [1:17:35] Nearing the all-time high. [1:17:37] They have 21 wins, 15 of 21 were by double digits, including their last four in a row, and they're 14 and three in their last 17 games. I have more, but let's all start there. [1:17:48] This has been the most dramatic turnaround in season. [1:17:52] of anyone that I can remember. Any other time this has happened, there's been signs,

[1:17:56] Like OKC, the year when OKC became like a 500 team, it's like, [1:18:00] Yeah, I could see this building all year. [1:18:04] This is like a fun league pass team that will never actually be a play-in team this year. There's no way. And yet they're going to be a play-in team and might even win the division. [1:18:12] The division, I forgot about the division. [1:18:15] The Southeast Division. They could win the division. [1:18:18] Right now, the odds in the division, they are plus 460. Orlando is plus 135, and Miami is plus 155 on Fandle. I still like Charlotte to win the division, but there you go. [1:18:30] So you go. [1:18:31] Well, I'd just go. I could give you a couple more stats if you want. No, first of all, [1:18:38] I just... [1:18:39] I implore... [1:18:41] Whatever team wins this division, do not hang a banner. Even you, Charlotte. [1:18:46] Do not hang a banner. No, Charlie, if they go 44 and 38 and win the division, I'm allowing the banner. [1:18:52] No banner. You should be any team that hangs division banners should be shamed at all times. I'll give you this. I. [1:19:03] The... [1:19:04] Ball, Miller, Knipple, Bridges, Diabate lineup. [1:19:09] is plus 179.00. [1:19:12] In 281 minutes. [1:19:14] That's like... That is... [1:19:17] preposterous that is the number lineup of deaths that is the number one plus minus for any lineup in the nba [1:19:26] Number two,

[1:19:27] is the Pistons starting lineup, [1:19:30] at plus 131. So 48 points, quote, worse than the Hornets. And they've played almost twice as many minutes. Plus 179 in 281 minutes. [1:19:41] is insane. [1:19:43] And somebody that wasn't playing for like, what, the first six weeks, basically? It's a perfect storm of... [1:19:50] In all the attention on Knipple, and he's been unbelievable, and I don't want to besmirch anything about your illegitimate son, but he's been this constant metronome of productivity the entire season. [1:20:04] Ball up and down, but Miller has leveled up and stayed there for like a month and a half to two months now. [1:20:12] And something about the way Diabate... [1:20:14] fits with this group of the starting five [1:20:17] It's a perfect storm of Miller, Diabate, Lomelo kind of chilling a little bit with some of the crazy stuff and just be playing a simpler game in a lot of ways. [1:20:27] It's all clicked together. [1:20:29] And [1:20:30] I mean, we're what you just said, 30, 35, 40 games into this being like, this is a real team. This is this is. [1:20:37] I don't quite know where we're heading with it, but it's a real team. [1:20:42] And as you're going to get into, the way this has happened is incredibly unusual in modern NBA history. [1:20:49] The crazy thing about Lamello, because if you weren't really following or watching the games or even looking at the stats, you would think like, oh, it's Lamello's healthy and the team took off.

[1:20:59] He only plays like 27 minutes a game. [1:21:02] He's, in a weird way, I don't want to call him a luxury, but this is really built around Kahn and Miller and Diabate. [1:21:10] And then LaMelo, when he's good... [1:21:12] they become almost unstoppable. [1:21:14] Now they have this Kobe, the Kobe White trade, [1:21:18] which we did the trade deadline thing. It was like, oh, cool. I like Kobe White more than Colin Sexton. It's a really important trade for them. [1:21:24] for a variety of reasons. One, which I totally forgot until I was watching the game on Saturday. Like, [1:21:29] he's a North Carolina guy. Like, Ray Williams was there to see Kobe White, and Kobe White's like, loves being in Carolina. He's, [1:21:37] He's like, they're going to be able to resign him and they're going to make him like a part of stuff. Kobe white stats, um, [1:21:42] Last three years, he was 19, 19. [1:21:44] Five, four, 37% from three, made almost three threes a game. He's like the perfect guard to just add to this. And also, more importantly, gives them LaMelo insurance, which, [1:21:55] if LaMelo ever gets wacky or gets hurt or anything. [1:22:00] Well, I mean, Colin Sexton was playing really well for them, and you could probably find the stats for him are not so dissimilar from what you just said about Kobe White. In fact, they're not. I know, but I'm talking styles of player, though. I just like Kobe White's game more. He's more of a basketball player. He's a bigger, more dynamic player. [1:22:17] more diverse kind of player than Colin Sexton. Who can play off the ball, on the ball. I just think he fits better for what they're doing. He's a little bigger. He's got a little more... [1:22:27] defensively, I think he can help them. And I think that,

[1:22:30] When they play... [1:22:32] That lineup of death you mentioned, but then you can move Kobe into the Lomelo spot. It's still a really good team. We can't call it the lineup of death because the death lineup is taken and it's the worst lineup. I'm just trying to give Charlotte as many bones as possible. It's sitting there in front of us. How about the buzzsaw? [1:22:48] The Buzzsaw lineup. The Buzzsaw lineup. I like it. Just the first draft. We can workshop it. [1:22:54] Thank you. [1:22:55] So you mentioned something on one of your pods the other day. I can't remember. I think you were talking maybe about Detroit. [1:23:01] Well, it's... [1:23:01] Thank you. [1:23:03] Maybe it was with Lego... [1:23:04] You were talking about [1:23:06] Detroit only has one guy that can really create a shot. [1:23:09] But they have all these guys who know how to do all these things and they can kind of patch it together. [1:23:15] But really, they only have one guy who can create a shot. And you could feel it the game on Friday night against Cleveland when Cade fouled out, which for some reason has happened more than once this season. Cade fouled out. And it's like, oh, shit, what do we do now? And they tried to patch it together. By the way, you know part of the reason why Cade gets in foul trouble here and there? Because he tries hard on defense. He tries to make plays on defense. That's part of it. Well, he doesn't get the respect either. I don't think he gets the superstar respect. [1:23:40] The [1:23:41] Hornets have five guys who can create a shot. [1:23:44] Like for real. [1:23:45] Khan can do it. [1:23:47] Brandon Miller, obviously. LaMelo can get by anybody. Kobe White could create a shot. [1:23:51] Miles Bridges can create a shot. [1:23:54] So anytime it's like eight seconds left, play screwed up or whatever, wherever the ball is, somebody can kind of do something with that or you can set a screen.

[1:24:02] That's one thing. [1:24:04] The threes are out of control. They're averaging 17.1 made threes during this 32-game streak where they're 21-11. 17.1. [1:24:13] They're shooting 43 a game. They're 40% from... [1:24:16] which leads the league, but they're also second in rebounds. [1:24:20] which is nice because Canippo rebounds, Lamello rebounds, Bridges, every guy on the team goes and grabs rebounds. [1:24:25] Um, [1:24:27] And then when you just think about [1:24:30] If I know I'm getting 17 threes a game, [1:24:34] I can kind of have a bad game and still be in the game. [1:24:37] You know? [1:24:38] I can still hang around... [1:24:41] I can still, I can be down nine, and then all of a sudden I'm down three. I don't know. And they have three 20-point scorers. [1:24:48] I really believe in this team. And then we didn't even mention Grant Williams. [1:24:53] who came back, the shooting stats aren't great, but they kind of needed one more glue guy who kind of knows where to go and how to move on defense. [1:25:01] So they have LaMelo and Con and Miller and Bridges. They have White. [1:25:05] They have Williams, Diabate, and Kochbrenner and... [1:25:09] Josh Green, I guess. Josh Green has given them really nice minutes. As the 10th guy, as their swing defender. And he and Seon James are kind of the wing guys that come off the bench. Kind of the wild card wings, right. But Josh Green has been the best version of what Josh Green is. Like, you know he's not going to shoot much. He's going to play some defense and hit corner threes and move the ball. And he's done all of that for them. [1:25:29] Do you value this nine in a row on the road?

[1:25:32] Love roadwinds. I'm a sucker for roadwinds. [1:25:36] All right, I'm about to... [1:25:38] I'm about to take this up a level to crazy town, but do you want to say something normal before I do that? I do. And I want to delight you. [1:25:46] in saying it. Because you mentioned, first of all, I think you undersold LaMelo a little bit in saying the team is built around Knipple and Miller and LaMelo kind of floats in as a bonus. All the lineup data [1:25:57] suggests that their offense... [1:25:59] is awesome when LaMelo's on the floor. [1:26:01] And now this may change with white because they can keep two of these four guys on the floor at all times, which is used for them. But their offense without Lomelo has not been very good. And even like some, I don't have it all sorted in front of me that I did a couple weeks ago. Like even like the Miller and Knipple, no Lomelo lineup was just so, so at one point, but anyway, so I think you understood him a little bit, but I've just like, I was projecting the white being able to do a reasonable facsimile of a lead guard for them. I just think his level of creation is, is unbelievable. His knack for floaters, he's getting, [1:26:31] And you mentioned the shooting Lamello is an elite Three point shooter It's just masked by the fact that he took so many Difficult threes that deflated his percentage But he's an elite three point shooter And everyone knows Knipple is a great shooter And just said they just sort of It's like [1:26:48] at the end of the sentence about, and they have this knipple, it's unbelievable shooting. [1:26:52] He is... [1:26:55] This is one of the greatest shooting seasons anyone has ever had in the history of basketball. And I just I did the basketball referencing for you.

[1:27:03] there are [1:27:05] *tututututu* [1:27:07] six seasons in the history of the NBA, [1:27:10] Six individual player seasons. And Knipple is on pace to be seven. And he's almost going to do it this week. [1:27:17] 2,000 minutes, so you can't be like a role player who comes in and pops threes. [1:27:22] 43% or better from three. He's at 44% right now. [1:27:26] at least eight threes per 36 minutes attempted. [1:27:30] Six player seasons total. Here are the six. Steph Curry, [1:27:35] Steph Curry. [1:27:36] Steph Curry. [1:27:38] Clay Thompson, [1:27:39] Desmond Bain, [1:27:41] Duncan Robinson, and at 1,900 plus minutes, about to be concanible. Wow. And the Kray Thompson is the comp. [1:27:49] Because that's who he reminds me of... [1:27:52] like a Clay Thompson coaching tree kind of, [1:27:57] player of the way, [1:27:58] He just reminds me of him with some of the stuff he does. But he moves kind of smartly in the paint and stuff. He does stuff Klay never did. Klay was always around the fringes for the most part. Klay also has this little John Havlicek side when he can muscle in and get a little 10-footer, 12-footer. But when they set those picks, it really reminds me of Klay. Those little quick flare picks when all of a sudden he's wide open for a split second, he makes them. [1:28:28] all over the floor. Charles Lee and his staff deserve a lot of credit. They've really maximized three guys who you look at them and think, well, teams should be able to switch a lot of actions between these guys. And it's just, they've made it really hard to keep track of everybody.

[1:28:43] All right, are you ready? I'm so excited. We're going to crazy town. Let's go. [1:28:49] The 2013 Warriors. Okay. [1:28:54] 47 and 35, 40% from three led the league, upset Denver in round one, lost to San Antonio in round two. [1:29:02] We were working at Grantland together. [1:29:06] League was not as good. [1:29:08] That 2013 Warriors team with those two guys and David Lee, basically. Was Bogan on that team yet? He was. [1:29:16] The league just wasn't as good And that was probably a 41-41 team now That was a 51-win team [1:29:28] No, they were 47 and 35. Oh, 12-13. You're talking 12-13. I'm talking that first Warriors season. That's the team. Yeah. [1:29:35] Um, [1:29:36] Curry was 22 a game. Clay was 17 a game. [1:29:40] combined there are 6.1 made threes. People didn't shoot the threes as much back then. [1:29:45] As that season evolved, we were like, [1:29:48] something's like really here. This is headed somewhere. And then when they beat, Denver was what, 56 wins that year? Ty Lawson's team? [1:29:56] Iguodala's on that team, George Caro. It was a big upset. [1:29:58] And then they lost to the Spurs the next round, but... [1:30:01] Curry, everything about it felt [1:30:03] like something special happened. So that summer, [1:30:06] They make a big move for Iguodala. [1:30:09] They had Draymond on the team as a rookie, but he blossomed the second year. They go 51-31. They lose the Clips in seven.

[1:30:16] Curry and Klay jump up and then the next season was the season. [1:30:19] My crazy time question for you is could this, [1:30:23] Khan Miller Lamello Threesome. [1:30:27] be the same kind of foundation that Curry and Clay were for that Warriors team? And could you actually, like, [1:30:32] see a path for this nucleus, [1:30:35] with some of the caps, some of the picks, which I want to go through, adding one more guy, [1:30:39] Could this be like... [1:30:41] a real playoff team a year from now. [1:30:43] There's no question it could be a real playoff team a year from now. And I do think adding one more guy has to be part of the recipe, but, um, [1:30:52] I think the Warriors comp, you're now comping them to what becomes an all-time incredible team. That's why I said we're going to crazy town. A nucleus. You have to include Draymond in the can this be Stephen Clay thing. [1:31:03] But I'm saying that first year, Draymond's not – it's just Curry and Klay, basically, with Bogut and Harrison Barnes is on there at that point. [1:31:11] But it's not Draymond. We didn't know who Draymond was as a [1:31:14] potential like dynasty guy. But that's the year. That's the year to point to because... [1:31:19] More than the regular season and even more than the Denver series, because Gallinari gets hurt right before that series and it kind of upends their team. The Spurs loss, that was the final proof of concept for me. I remember vividly thinking it at the time, writing about it at the time, talking to people with the Warriors the next season and beyond about that series. [1:31:38] And, [1:31:39] And the, [1:31:40] Remember the first two games in that series were in San Antonio and they were wild games. The Warriors split the games and then Steph gets hurt in the series and kind of limps through it. Boga gets hurt in that series and kind of limps through it. They lose in six, but just like,

[1:31:52] The gold standard of NBA defense is [1:31:55] ran in to something that they didn't know what to do with. They just were like, we're, [1:32:00] we don't, this guy's pulling up from 30 feet and we're supposed to defend this. Like this is not how we were told basketball was. That series was the series where the Warriors became the Warriors to me. And then it just, it just snowballed from there. This team is going to be an awesome offensive team. [1:32:14] They could be a 50-win team next year. I don't think that's out of bounds at all. That kind of leap, this is a real thing. That kind of leap is there. I do think one more add is key, and then... [1:32:25] The Draymond thing I bring up only because the Warriors were an elite defensive team. [1:32:30] Right away when they started to play him. [1:32:32] And I think that's the big question for this team is how do they become – [1:32:36] But that really was until the 67 win season when Lee got hurt. [1:32:42] And then Draymond's minutes went way up, right? That was... [1:32:45] That was the year when it bloomed. [1:32:48] That was year three of this. The David Lee injury was... [1:32:52] a big part of their team 13 14 they were third in defense [1:32:56] 12, 13, 14, [1:32:58] they were 12th in defense. Right. The Bogut Ellis trade obviously also changed the trajectory of their team, but that's the question for the, for the, [1:33:07] And maybe Diabata has answered some, but they're up to 17th in defense now. And this did not look like a team that could be an average defense. So they're trending the right way. Well, how about this? In that 32-game streak? [1:33:17] The 21 and 11, their eighth net rating. Trending the right way. [1:33:21] And Koch Brenner off the bench is a real guy defensively. Like he's a problem defensively. The perimeter guys will all get better.

[1:33:30] And, and, [1:33:31] they know exactly what they want to be defensively. So they're number one in opponent free throw rate and number one in defensive rebounding, which means they do not beat themselves. You have to beat them. And they allow the second fewest corner threes in the league. And I said this way early in the season, like all these numbers have been there. [1:33:49] since the start of the season. [1:33:51] And just the other mistakes they were making were, were sabotaging their defense. But like the groundwork was laid, [1:33:59] for a competent defensive team. They had a structure. They had things they wanted to accomplish, and they were starting to accomplish them. And now the other parts of their defense have caught up, and their offense has completely exploded. But that's the question to me is, can they become like a top 10 to 11 defense in the NBA? And if they can... [1:34:14] I don't see why 50 wins is out of bounds next year. Why would it be? [1:34:19] And that would be a huge jump. What are they going to win this year? I don't know. Maybe they could win 44 this year, 42. But yeah, 50-something next year. Why not? [1:34:27] I've been pretty good over the years at identifying when some team has – [1:34:33] Like just being a year early on somebody. I remember the OKC. [1:34:37] the year they finished 40 and 42. [1:34:40] Right. [1:34:41] It was the... [1:34:43] 22-23 season. Now, it didn't take a rocket science to think that a team with a bunch of draft picks and Shea we knew at that point was going to be special, like that they were going to be really good. [1:34:53] But I remember talking about the podcast at the time. They played... [1:34:57] LeBron in the game when LeBron broke the record.

[1:35:01] And, [1:35:01] Watching them and how they handled... [1:35:04] that whole experience and they just kind of wanted to keep the game going so they could, cause they were trying to beat the Lakers. Like they, [1:35:10] they just had a calmness and a competitiveness in them. I was like, [1:35:13] There's something really here. [1:35:15] I feel that way about the Hornets. I felt that way about those Warriors teams in that 13th season where I was like, there's something actually really here. This isn't just like a fun story. Like... [1:35:24] There's like something special brewing. [1:35:28] really feel that way with this Hornets team. I don't think this is like, [1:35:31] I know they're not even 500 yet, they're 30 and 31, but I think they have the foundation [1:35:37] especially the white trade, [1:35:39] I don't know if Bridges is there long term or not, and I assume LaMelo is. [1:35:44] But they have this Dallas pick that's top two protected in 27. It's a great asset. [1:35:48] They have a Miami pick that's top 14 protected this year and unprotected in 27. The Rozier pick. [1:35:56] What is their Iguodala move? [1:35:58] is my question. [1:36:00] Because... [1:36:02] Golden State came out of that 47 and 35 season. Draymond wasn't Draymond yet. They were basically Curry and Clay and some barns. [1:36:09] Um, [1:36:10] But their big move is Iguodala. They dumped some contracts. They added two first-round picks. They went and got [1:36:15] this amazing fourth banana for them. [1:36:18] And that... [1:36:19] made their team go up a level. [1:36:21] Could it be Giannis? [1:36:23] Could it be Bam Adebayo? Could it be Anthony Davis? Could it be Trey Murphy? Could it be somebody like Isaiah Hartenstein, OKC, just trying to get off his money?

[1:36:32] It's that there's not as many candidates as you think, but I think that's the next step for this. [1:36:37] It's a playoff warrior guy that can come in and be like one of your five guys. Well, and they have time. It's funny how fast this goes in the NBA because this is a feel-good story right now. [1:36:50] And, and, and, [1:36:51] they don't have [1:36:54] all three of Knipple and Miller and Lomelo on max deals until 28, 29. And then they will, or I'm sorry, until 29, 30, that's the end of Knipple's rookie deal. So they have time. [1:37:05] But they got to use these next two or three years to, [1:37:08] to take advantage of that salary cap space and that cap tax apron flexibility that will go away [1:37:14] if and when all three of those guys are on max deals and get someone in the door who can help them win now, because they're going to be ready to win big. And I do think it needs to be, [1:37:23] somebody who [1:37:24] I don't even think you need to lean defense. I just think you need to be a good defensive player and fill some gaps on defense because that's – [1:37:31] and probably have some size, but they should absolutely be active. [1:37:36] trying to find like they were one of my favorite just total for fun. I didn't think they would do it, nor do I think they should do it. But like Anthony Davis popped into my head when Nico Harrison got fired like [1:37:46] too expensive, too old, but [1:37:49] Bam is a good name. I don't think the Heat ever want to trade Bam, but like a guy... [1:37:53] A guy like that who defends but doesn't gum up your offense, which is obviously hard to find, but [1:37:59] They're going to be on the hunt for somebody because these three guys together,

[1:38:03] This is a real thing, what they're doing offensively. [1:38:06] They have all their own first-round picks plus those two other ones. [1:38:10] The other piece is... [1:38:12] new owners, which is similar to the Warriors situation, right? The Warriors brought [1:38:16] they, Lakeup and those guys bought that team right around 2011-12. So it was like, [1:38:21] Early on, they've kind of revamped the back. They're actually spending money, which is the secret problem with Charlotte was Jordan was one of the worst owners of all time. [1:38:30] We love Michael Jordan. He was just a terrible owner who was cheap and made bad decisions. He was poorly run behind the scenes. Charles Lee, who's great, [1:38:40] who, by the way, Charles Lee... [1:38:42] was involved with the Bucs when they won the title and the Celtics when they won the title. And I think is one of the best coaches in the league. [1:38:49] They're not that far away. [1:38:51] When you think the foundation of those three guys... [1:38:54] versus like Curry, who turned out to be one of the all-timers. [1:38:57] just Curry and Clay versus those three together. [1:39:00] Talent-wise, it's like you're at least in the vicinity, and then you can patch it around. I think the Knipple piece... [1:39:06] All jokes aside, but he's 20 and he's putting up stats that a 27-year-old would do and the stuff they're doing with him in games. To have somebody who's that young... [1:39:17] who you have on a rookie contract, that you can still kind of build around. It's a little reminiscent of when the Warriors had that huge discount for Curry forever. [1:39:25] What was he making, like 10 million a year for years and years? I think it was like a four-year, $44 million extension or something. Yeah, they were able to just patch shit around. That's basically the Knipple contract. Lamella's a max...

[1:39:36] And they're going to have to pay Brandon Miller this summer, I think. And he's earned the contract now. [1:39:42] And, and, and, [1:39:43] Speaking of Lamello, [1:39:45] I... [1:39:46] I am an all-time LaMelo defender. I never got off the LaMelo is a good thing. And I do think it'd be interesting to have a conversation with him because – [1:39:56] Winning is this weird feedback loop where finally the team is winning and [1:40:00] And I do think he's modulated his game as much as young LaMelo Ball can modulate his game. A lot of the crazy early clock threes, they're being trimmed down a little bit. He's trying harder on defense and more consistently on defense. There's always going to be moments where only LaMelo Ball can take that shot. There's the only player in the league who would do that. But I do think he's playing a calmer... [1:40:23] more... [1:40:24] Just clean... [1:40:26] normal style of basketball. And I wonder, I would love to ask him like, [1:40:30] in these previous years with Charlotte, [1:40:32] what was to stop him from doing whatever he wanted? He couldn't look around the roster and being like, well, that guy can shoot and that guy should shoot and that guy should shoot and we're losing anyway. They had a couple good play-in years with Borrego and stuff, but now he looks around, he's like, [1:40:46] That guy's fucking awesome. That guy's scoring more points than me. And we're winning all these games. And all of a sudden, we have a lot of hype around us and a lot of buzz, no pun intended. [1:40:58] Maybe I can just take 12 shots tonight and 15 shots the next game and 11 shots the next game and not take 25 shots and have a usage rate that's gargantuan.

[1:41:08] And everything's cool. And I do think there's, I think his game is changing a little bit in that sense. [1:41:14] I was completely out. [1:41:17] I didn't think he was going to get it. And usually by year six, if there's no signs of life, it's not happening. [1:41:22] But I'm with you. I think [1:41:24] I think he's toned back a lot of stuff. What's interesting about him on this team and why he's such a good fit in so many different ways. And again, he's playing 27 minutes a game. Like they're very careful with. Remember they brought him up to bench a few times? Yeah. Back to backs. They're easing him in. [1:41:40] They'll get a rebound and he can do a, Maxie is a good parallel to this where he's just off. [1:41:46] Right. And he's like full speed. They have, they're not just like this half court team. [1:41:51] with this team of three-point shooters. They also have this fast break side, and when he's off, these guys split to the sides and they know what to do, and it's really hard to defend. [1:42:00] At home, they're finally starting to get some sellouts. There's some real energy for some of these games. [1:42:06] Talk about a team that fans are dying to love. And I mean, like local fans, they're waiting to fall in love with a team like this. And it's, [1:42:17] Like, [1:42:18] I hope they make the playoffs. I would love, I mean, Pistons, Hornets, round one would be, [1:42:23] Unbelievable theater. That's a terrifying series if you're the Pistons, because you're playing a team that started out 4-14 and has basically been a 50-win team since. And that's who you're getting as the 8th seed. And they're going to come out like, I don't ever see them [1:42:38] deviating from how they play because it's the playoffs. They're going to play fast. They're going to play loose. They're going to shoot tons of threes and play with tons of bravado. That's just who they are.

[1:42:46] - It's funny, so comparing anyone to the Warriors is insane. That's why I said we're going to crazy town. [1:42:52] But in 2012-13, when we were working together, we never could have predicted anything that happened with that Warriors team, right? We just knew they were super fun. [1:43:00] And it was like, [1:43:01] I'm glad Steph Curry's going to turn out to be a really good pro because there was three years there where we didn't even know if he's going to be able to stay in the league with his ankles. [1:43:09] And thank God he's really fun to watch. And I'm so glad we've gotten to this point. Hey, Clay Thompson's really good too. And then over the next three years, it built into this way bigger thing. They have the foundation to do something pretty special with this team. So I was looking through the last 25 years of teams [1:43:26] that's sort of like unexpectedly and organically... [1:43:30] snapped into something. [1:43:32] Was this your first chat GBT foray? Yeah, I did a little chat. I did one chat GBT and then I felt horrible about it and I stopped. Why'd you feel bad? I just, you know... [1:43:44] I'm old school. Can we have just like writers and writers doing writing, doing the writing? You should have gone to the library and researched this and encyclopedias. Hey, look, we take, I, the Lowe family takes out books from the freaking public library. Okay. You think I'm buying my daughter, all the goddamn babysitters clubs, books and all that stuff. No, you're taking some of those out of the library. The Greenwich public library is one of the great libraries. You don't have to blow up my spot like that. Well, it's a great place. Yeah. It's got its ups and downs. Um, [1:44:12] And it like there really isn't a perfect. This is the most interesting. So a lot of them are have one.

[1:44:18] or two, one or both of these things. [1:44:21] One thing. [1:44:22] a consensus even as this is happening, [1:44:26] And it's early. [1:44:27] this guy's going to be one of the 15 to 20 best players in the league at worst, like a, like a true blue, like Derek Rose or Damian Lillard or Steph Curry or on and on for your sort of like organic builds, a couple of exceptions or two, [1:44:41] there's a coaching change that dramatically changes. [1:44:44] changes how the team plays. So like the Bucs with Budenholzer, [1:44:48] The Hawks with Budenholzer, that's a good team that didn't maybe have a top 20 team. [1:44:53] player um [1:44:56] And there's a couple more like the Bulls with Tibbs, the Pacers. The Pacers are actually an interesting comparison. Like the Paul George, David West, George Hill, they have a coaching change. But Paul George, I think, obviously became an all-NBA player. And do you look at – I think probably – [1:45:15] They do, but they don't. Do we have like an all-time superstar on this team? [1:45:20] I think that's where this falls apart. [1:45:22] Because you would have to say... [1:45:24] The Knipple-Miller combo. [1:45:27] as how unusual it is to have two wings [1:45:30] that can both shoot [1:45:31] And, [1:45:32] are almost interchangeable in some ways, almost as the superstar. [1:45:36] Because it's a little like what the Celtics had with Jalen and Jason for a while there, where it's like these two forwards, like, what is this? Nobody has anything like this. And maybe that's the superpower. [1:45:47] Just being able to have all these different lineups, but with those two guys as the centerpiece.

[1:45:52] And you can go bigger or smaller with them. I think you've got to include LaMelo. It's the three of them together. Right. Because he's the best passer. He's also 6'7". [1:46:03] The same height as Brandon Miller and one inch listed taller. I don't want to put this on LaMelo because I'm so nervous that it's going to fall apart for him at any time. Well, the health stuff has been – the health stuff is now the thing that makes me the most nervous is just the ankle stuff that keeps popping up and making him this time. But the three of them being 6'6", 6'7", and having the combined passing, shooting, ball handling skills that they have is really unusual. [1:46:28] Well, how many teams in the league right now [1:46:30] Have five, guys. [1:46:32] who, if the situation was right, [1:46:34] could absolutely easily score 20 points a game. [1:46:38] Think about that. Yeah. It's not many. [1:46:42] Because there's a scenario where it's like, hey, Miles Bridges, we need you to score 25 points a game for three weeks here. He could actually do it if they wanted him to. [1:46:51] For the people here listening who are like, this is the most fucking insane thing I've ever heard. I don't think anyone who's paying attention could think this is insane. [1:46:59] Well, the advanced metrics are demanding that we have the conversation. When you're first in that rating for 32 games, you have to have the conversation. They play Dallas at home on Tuesday. They're going to win that. [1:47:09] Dallas has given up on the season. [1:47:12] They're at Boston on Wednesday. [1:47:15] Home Miami on Friday. It's a fun one. [1:47:18] That's a must-watch. Charlotte, Miami, Friday. That's going on my calendar. [1:47:22] At Depleted Phoenix on Sunday, at Portland, at Sacramento, and then at San Antonio on March 14th.

[1:47:28] Then they have a little Miami-Orlando home game combo. [1:47:32] after that. They waxed the Spurs, by the way. They didn't wax them, but they wire-to-wire beat the Spurs at home in Charlotte. So at Boston Home Miami, this is now... [1:47:42] It's midterms for them. It's the midterm exams in high school. [1:47:47] It's like, okay. [1:47:48] You have our attention. [1:47:50] Now go to Boston. You're not going to have Jason Tatum yet. This is a team you should be able to play with. You're going to shoot a lot of threes and be super comfortable. And then Miami, that's the team you have to get through in your division. [1:48:01] Can you split these? Can you win both? If you lose both, then we were in crazy town and this was stupid. No, you can't. [1:48:10] Two games can't take you out of crazy town. At Boston's a tough game and Miami's Miami. I know, but I just brought the 2013 Warriors and the 2023 OKC into this. That's where we got in the crazy town. I tried to temporary by bringing in some teams who became very good and did not perhaps accomplish the great history that the Warriors accomplished because they were all very good teams. [1:48:31] But no, you stay in crazy time. You can't be dissuaded by two games, especially one game. [1:48:36] against Miami, [1:48:37] in which something as historically significant [1:48:40] as the 2026 Southeast division title could be at stake. I mean, the pressure that all the players must feel knowing the division is, is in the air in that game is, is, is palpable. [1:48:51] People less, better, stronger humans have quaked under that kind of pressure before. If we wanted to go to crazy town...

[1:49:00] We would go to the 1978 Seattle Supersonics. [1:49:05] who started out five and 17, [1:49:08] and ended up losing the finals in seven games to Washington and then winning a year later. No one... But that is the craziest start to finish season. Five and 17 made the finals. I think there are like... [1:49:21] probably less than 50 people who are still alive. [1:49:25] who can have [1:49:26] who can say one sentence about the 1977-78 NBA Finals, who can say one coherent sentence about this Seattle. I could probably name nine of the guys on the team. It's a great basketball card team. I think you guys are going to be like D-Day fans. [1:49:40] soldiers who like every year there's like fewer and fewer of you left. Well, that's like my dad with the season tickets for the Celtics. [1:49:48] He's like fifth oldest now. [1:49:50] for having the tickets straight through. [1:49:52] There's a, there's some, I think there's some guy who's like 90, but my dad's like moved into the top three or four at this point. Has he been honored? It's like, you know how they do the season ticket holder of the game. They bring them out and they waves. I honestly can't believe he hasn't been, he hasn't been brought to midcourt and waved to the crowd. What's he got to do? So. [1:50:08] They've been going since 1974. Wow, that's astonishing. I'm actually surprised. The 73-74 season brought them a title. So anyway, yeah, Charlotte. [1:50:18] I think this is real. Okay, before we go. Okay. [1:50:21] It's March. It's spring training. [1:50:25] Thank you. [1:50:26] I have a... [1:50:27] I have the Mets over under for the year for you. Over. I don't even know what it is.

[1:50:33] Well, you could go, oh, where is it? [1:50:38] Over is... [1:50:41] I can't find it. [1:50:43] Well, 90 plus wins is minus 134. You winning 90 games? [1:50:48] probably not you don't think so i think they look i'm i'm following it from afar it seems like a little bit of a problem that every day there are quotes coming out of spring training that amount to like [1:51:00] It turns out playing this new position is a little trickier than player X thought it would be. And that's like five players on the team. And like Brett Beatty now has gloves for seven different positions. It's never a good sign. I hope this is going to work. It seems I'm a little worried, frankly. But of course, I'm taking the over on whatever the over under is. Are you watching Survivor 50? [1:51:20] now. [1:51:21] I haven't watched any, I've never watched an episode of Survivor, not one. [1:51:25] Did you ever think of going on? [1:51:27] Uh, [1:51:29] I would probably not subject myself to it. [1:51:34] What would be your strategy if you went on? I don't even know how it works. We do tasks and then someone gets voted off. And I know everyone forms alliances and their people alienate other people in their backroom deals. My strategy would just. It's like ESPN. [1:51:50] Are there teams? I'm seriously. I'm sorry. I'm not bringing anything to the table. [1:51:56] I can't go on because I wear contact lenses and I have allergies. [1:52:01] Otherwise, I would have gone on. Yeah, I would have loved it. There's no workaround for that?

[1:52:06] No, I feel like that's an excuse. Being in the outdoors, well, now I'm too old. My wife was my dream person to go on, though, because... [1:52:15] Great at challenges. She would have owned the challenges, but gets crazy if she's not eating. [1:52:20] And you have to like, you know, you really hungry on Survivor. She's just an absolute terrorist. There's not like a hotel nearby where they're getting catered meals. No. So she'd be just an absolute maniac, but then would win the challenges. They wouldn't be able to vote her off. And she would just be yelling at everybody about the race. [1:52:37] just like who ate the rice there was more rice here [1:52:41] I'm trying to think what reality show has ever tempted me. Like that would be amazing race. That's the one that's, that's the one where like I travel around the world and solve problems and puzzles and like go on chases. Like that's, that seems fun. [1:52:55] What's the craziest thing you've ever done? [1:52:58] the craziest thing I've ever done. Well, like joining a reality show would be the craziest thing. If you told me like one time I applied to be on the real world, I'd be like, that's the craziest thing you could have told me. I don't think I have. Did you have like a, anything like you're like, I can't believe I did that. [1:53:13] I mean, I can't, I still can't believe I ever got on television to talk about anything. You were there with me the first time I went on TV and I almost had to take me to the emergency room. [1:53:24] Well, I couldn't even convince you to do a podcast. [1:53:26] No, it was two months. Like it was, I think all of this is crazy. I'm trying to think if I did anything. [1:53:32] I'm glad you mentioned that. I think about that sometimes. All of this is crazy. I don't think I have any...

[1:53:39] I mean, I did crazy stuff when I was a cops and crime reporter at the Stanford Advocate in Stanford, Connecticut, like talking to murderers. What was the craziest trial you ever covered? The craziest trial I ever covered. It's sad. It was a home invasion in which an elderly... [1:53:54] retired teacher was murdered in her own house by, I don't even remember who exactly did it. It was someone that they didn't know was like kind of a random person. [1:54:04] thing, if I remember it correctly. I covered all sorts of horrible stuff and talked to lots of scary people and lots of very interesting people in strange places. It was crazy. [1:54:14] I was on a jury once in the late 1990s, maybe 2000s. [1:54:19] when I was living in Boston. You're a runner, Jerry? [1:54:22] No, I've always gotten out of jury duty. [1:54:25] I was on a jury, um, [1:54:27] And it was... [1:54:29] it was this case where these guys got in a fight in an elevator and, [1:54:34] Somebody got stabbed and he said it was the guy who did the stabbing said he was defending himself. [1:54:41] Had to do this three-day trial and decide on... [1:54:45] Whether he did it or not, it was pretty tense. [1:54:47] Sounds tense. Yeah, I won't tell you what the verdict was, but it was – [1:54:52] I'm going to come back with a better answer. I'm sure I've done something... [1:54:57] crazy that's just... Did you ever drive cross country with anybody? [1:55:00] No. [1:55:02] Trying to think like you're just a very practical guy. [1:55:06] I once chaperoned a high school band trip to Florida from New Jersey. I was one of eight faculty members who did that. It wasn't crazy. It was just incredibly unpleasant from start to finish. It involved, that involved a group. I mean, we're talking like 60 people.

[1:55:21] Children. [1:55:22] Yeah. High school. [1:55:24] children and eight teachers. And that involved one of the nights was a dinner at Medieval Times [1:55:30] In Orlando. And what we had, it was like night four of a five day trip. And we did have a serious conversation among the faculty members about whether we could sneak alcohol in, [1:55:42] into medieval times and no one would be able to tell because the cups were pewter. [1:55:48] And whether the risk-reward equation was worth it because- Yeah, what a way to get fired. So sick of the whole- [1:55:54] The whole trip. [1:55:56] Medieval times, like in the cable guy. [1:55:58] So yeah, it's still going. We actually had to talk about this with some friends. There's still, there's like 10 medieval times around the country. If you want to organize a work of like an outing. Did you follow this whole thing that people were worried that Jim Carrey had been replaced? I did see, I saw photos that looked like, you know, different than I remember Jim Carrey, but people age and then the Hollywood people have things happen to them and they don't look. I thought it looked like he had fillers in his cheeks. I didn't think he got replaced. [1:56:28] people who I see them in movies and I'm like, that, [1:56:31] person looks like that now that's like doesn't even i wouldn't have guessed that in a million years [1:56:37] In general, I wonder if anyone's ever been replaced in our lifetime. [1:56:42] You're going down some dangerous roads that could get us into some political discourse. Well, it happened in Dave, but that was a movie. Well, it was just, it did happen. It was just in a script.

[1:56:53] Kevin Kline came in, he looked just like Dave. [1:56:56] did it um [1:56:58] Have you seen Sicario? [1:56:59] - I have. - You have, you like Sicario. - I love Sicario. I haven't seen it, I saw it in a hotel by myself in Los Angeles on some road trip, because it's a classic, my wife will never watch a movie. And I didn't quite know what I was getting into, I knew the gist of it, and I remember being like, "This is so much better." [1:57:16] than I even thought it was going to be. And I would like to rewatch it. I have not seen any of the sequels. I think there are there multiple sequels. [1:57:22] Multiple sequels. [1:57:24] The original Sicari was on Netflix, and we're doing a live rewatch almost tomorrow, 6 p.m. ET. [1:57:29] Me and Fantasy and Chris to kick off CR Month. [1:57:32] We have two other movies knocked down. [1:57:35] Fargo? [1:57:36] His second movie of share month. [1:57:38] And then today, just announced, to live and die in L.A. [1:57:42] I don't know if you know that one. I don't think I've ever seen that movie. Yeah, I don't think I know that movie. William Peterson. [1:57:46] It's a classic. You can find it. I don't know if it's on Netflix, but yeah, those are the first two more spots. So five movie month for rewatchable. So there you go. Thanks to McLoab Ultra for... [1:57:57] for sponsoring this live stream. Thanks to Gau and Eduardo and Jack and Kevin and Chris and everybody at The Ringer as well. Zach Lowe, you have a podcast Tuesday morning? Tuesday morning. Thursday morning. That's right. Thursday morning will be the holy shit [1:58:12] That Hornets-Seltic game was the game of the year, and Jason Tatum's coming back on Friday podcast, so I'm looking forward to it. Wow. Good to see you, my friend. Thank you. Always fun. [1:58:21] Thanks, everybody.

[1:58:27] Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. [1:58:32] or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gave them a problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-797-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call [redacted phone] for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York for Louisiana. [1:59:02] 6, 7.