#2400 - Katee Sackhoff

[00:00] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day! [00:12] Especially in Hollywood, right? You always have a little bounce with those guys standing there with the... [00:17] You always need someone... [00:19] like wandering around in front of you, especially when you get to a certain age. You're like, can we just put Vaseline on the... [00:25] camera oh like a filter yeah exactly yeah my wife actually likes it when her lens on her camera phone is like a little dirty she's like gives you like a little filter yeah i'm sure they offer that filter slightly dirty lens yeah smudgy lens yeah so uh really nice to meet you that's nice you were a part of i think the most underappreciated sci-fi show ever [00:50] I think at the time, absolutely. I mean, even now, I don't think people talk about it enough. It was a fucking great show. Yeah. And I was so skeptical about Battlestar Galactica because when I was a kid, I watched the original series. And then there was a new one coming out. And I was like, oh, come on. And then somebody told me, I forget, one of my friends, one of my comedian friends, like, dude, you got to watch the show. It's fucking great. Like, it's not what you expect. Like, you'd think it'd be like the old Battlestar Galactica, which is kind of sort of corny a little bit. But it was a really fucking good show. [01:20] watch it when it was on or after? No when it was on. Okay so originally. Yeah yeah it was um [01:26] God, like, [01:27] When I first got the script, it was like 2001, and I was a 21-year-old kid.

[01:32] And at that point, I'd been playing like stereotypical... [01:36] blonde roles. I was in a movie where you were like, please die. I was that girl. And so I knew that if I could [01:45] could change my career. I needed to change it. And I saw this script. That's hilarious that you're thinking, I need to change my career at 21. At 21. That's how crazy the hourglass is in Hollywood. I was like, this is... I got... [01:56] I got seven years left. So crazy. That's a fucking sketchy job. I know. And so I was like, what am I going to do, right? And I saw this script and... [02:06] Ron Moore had put an entry page on the front of the miniseries. It was like a Bible that he called it. And it was him saying what he wanted to create and what he wanted it to look like and what his intention was behind the show. And that one page was so moving. [02:25] that [02:25] It could have been [02:27] I don't, I didn't even matter what it was on the inside. I was like, if this guy is in charge, it's going to be amazing. And, [02:34] As soon as I got introduced to Starbuck, reading that script, I was like, [02:38] This is it. [02:40] Like, this is the character that... [02:43] If I can book this character... [02:45] like, [02:46] it will change the way that people see me in this business. And granted, I was 21. People were not talking about me. I'd been working for [02:54] five years at that point and pretty steadily like I had a good career going but like I was not someone that like [03:01] people called home about yet. I was, I was on the list, you know, but that show changed everything. Well, it was also a risky thing because you were playing a role that was played by a man. So that was a little thing where there's like a little bit of, oh, there's a girl playing Starbuck now. Yeah, I know. It was really strange. So I, um,

[03:24] I was like almost had booked the part or was maybe I'd booked the part. I don't quite remember. And I called my dad, who's a huge science fiction fan and raised me on like sci-fi. And I was like, I booked this job. And he was like, that's amazing. What is it? And I said, Battlestar Galactica. And he went, oh, my God, that's great. I watched it when I was younger. And he was like, who are you playing? And I said, Starbuck. He was like. [03:45] Oh, fuck. [03:49] You need to go watch this. And I was like, okay, all right. So I like trumps on down to, you know, Blockbuster Video, and I... [03:58] rent the [03:59] VHS maybe the DVDs I don't remember what it was and I'm sitting on the couch with a girlfriend and we like opened a bottle of wine and we're like watching this to like be like okay what's my dad talking about and at some point she looked at me and they were like talking about Starbucks and I was like that's so weird we must have missed her. [04:16] where's she and we rewound it a little bit and i was like oh crap it's and then i turned it off and i never watched it again [04:25] Because I knew that in that moment it wasn't the same character. It's not the same show. It's not the same show. It's kind of crazy that they did that because they made a way better show about a show that was just kind of nostalgic. It was. I mean, it really only existed for a year, I think. And then they had like a movie or two afterwards. But it was a very short-lived show. [04:49] And I always find it absolutely amazing. Ron Moore is a genius, by the way. Like, he's absolutely...

[04:56] To be a fly on the wall of that brain would probably just explode in my head. [05:02] The fact that he saw what he saw... [05:04] and [05:05] led the charge on that show and brought the people on board that he did that had the same vision, if not, you know, hire people that are better than you, you know, and so he hired people that added to the vision that he wanted to create. And he, man. [05:21] The fact that he saw that from the original was pretty amazing. Yeah, kind of crazy. Yeah. Because the original show was basically a ripoff of Star Wars. It was. They were just trying to make a Star Wars TV show. I think so. I mean, I think that, you know, Starbuck was Han Solo. Right. [05:38] And the Cylons were kind of like stormtroopers. They were. Like robot stormtroopers. It was pretty, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't know who Daggett the dog was. No, I don't know. [05:51] They said, like, I see what you're trying to do, but this could be a real show. Yeah. I mean, and it came out in a time where science fiction was allowed to – [06:06] be incredibly topical. And it was always dismissed as, oh, that's just science fiction. It's not real. So Battlestar was allowed to talk about controversial things that were happening currently in the environment and in our country and abroad. And it was allowed to do so because everybody just dismissed it as sci-fi. And so it's incredibly...

[06:31] moving the show and people identify with it. The thing that I hear the most about the show, I mean, maybe not the most, but one of the things is when I go to sci-fi conventions, someone will inevitably come up with a DVD box that is just beat to shit. It's dirty. It's like, they don't even know if the DVDs play anymore. And they're like, [06:50] This came with me when I was stationed in Afghanistan or Iraq, and it passed through the entire barracks. [06:59] And it got us through. [07:00] Thank you. [07:02] And [07:02] That to me is... [07:04] really amazing. [07:06] that [07:07] a [07:08] fictional show. [07:10] about people [07:13] searching for [07:15] Earth. [07:16] Um, [07:17] can be so important and relevant to people that are in the military, which is, it says something for the writing. Well, people need an escape. And that's one of the things like entertainment is dismissed, especially like fantasy entertainment, like sci-fi is dismissed as being nonsense. But escape is not nonsense. It's actually like brain medicine. Like you need it. You need a little escape. Of course you do. [07:47] interesting and fascinating. It occupies your mind and it frees you up. If you're in the middle of a fucking war zone and you can take some [07:56] entertainment value out of a television show that's about robots that are trying to kill everybody. Yeah. It's like very valuable. Some of the hardest things.

[08:05] moments in my life, current and in the past, have been... [08:10] I've been able to get through them because of television and film. [08:15] Not because like I'm in it. Yes, the fantasy of going to work and being somebody else absolutely takes you out of your own skin for a second. But like... [08:24] you know [08:24] going through the health struggles with our daughter, [08:27] watching TV with her. [08:29] completely transports you to a different place. Right. You know, I mean, we can all do that. We can all relate to that. Let's talk about Service Titan, the AI for the trades. The trades are the backbone of this country. And for the first time, they've got technology that actually matches the work. Over 10,000 contractors already use Service Titan software to run their businesses. Built by two guys whose dads were in the trades. This isn't some tech company guessing at solutions. [08:59] Now Service Titan is building an AI trained on real trades workflows, not generic internet data. This is AI designed specifically for contracting work, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and more. It's booking calls while you sleep, dispatching your texts, helping you run your back office, growing your revenue. One platform, fully automated, always learning, always improving. Every other industry is still trying to figure out AI. [09:29] are about to lead from the front. Service Titan, the AI for the trades. Learn more at servicetitan.ai. This episode is brought to you by Traeger Grills. If you enjoy food, and I mean really good food, Traeger is a game changer. This isn't just a grill. It's the ultimate way to cook outdoors, delivering unbeatable wood-fired flavor thanks to the all-natural hardwood pellets that fuel everything you grill, smoke, or bake.

[09:59] Just wood and fire and flavor. And what's truly wild is how easy it is. Just set the temp, load the grill, and let Traeger handle the rest. Grilled steak, smoked ribs, even baked pizza, all on one grill. If you're into fire, flavor, and doing things right, check out Traeger Grills. [10:19] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. [10:31] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know – [10:45] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier and isn't getting more time with our four lefts. [11:15] best friend something every dog owner wants? The answer to that is yes, obviously. So try the farmer's dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. [11:29] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. I mean, you can get too much of it in your life where you're just wasting your life away, but as a supplement to life, I think that...

[11:45] entertainment is very important. It is. And it's also, I think we get something very valuable about it. [11:51] out of viewing other people's creations. [11:54] I think there's something to that. When a group of people put together something really cool and when it's over, you're like, wow, that was fucking awesome. Art is really important. Yeah. I think that. [12:03] that [12:04] you know, [12:05] creating just art in any [12:08] Any medium. [12:09] is really important because it transports people. It makes them feel something, whether it makes you feel... [12:14] Whatever it makes you feel. Yeah. It's incredibly important. One of my favorite things is to go to a concert and experience live music with a crowd. It is absolutely amazing. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah, it's a different thing. It really is. Because there's some sort of a mind meld with the entire audience. Yeah. Where you feel this energy of everybody enjoying the same thing together. It's like the shared happiness. It's the same with a comedy show. Sure. I mean, it's when an audience is with you. [12:44] it's got to feel like the same thing. You can tell instantaneously if the audience is going to be good if you've won them over, I would imagine. Yeah, there's that. But there's also just the thing of... [12:56] There's a thing of when you're a comedian, you're kind of almost like a passenger at a certain point. And you're really just... [13:05] You know what to do, and you sort of leave yourself out the door and just go into it and then perform it. And then it becomes alive. And then you're riding it. And then the audience rides it with you. That's when it's at the best. But it's a mass hypnosis is what it is. It's like everybody is on the same mind page. And that's the same with a great concert.

[13:35] like a drug that comes over you because you hear a great song. I'm literally laughing because like I don't [13:41] I don't know if your kids are in the right age of this, but like, so K-pop Demon Hunter is taking over the world right now on Netflix. Our daughter is... [13:51] Four. [13:52] And we were like a little reluctant, but I was like, everyone's talking about this thing. And like, she'd already heard some of the music. So I was like, let's try it out. And there were a couple moments that were like a bit, we were, my husband was a bit uncomfortable with some of like the sexualization aspects of it. Just the girls wearing more adult clothes. She's three and a half. Is this an anime show? It's anime. Out of Korea. There it is. Hot. [14:16] Anime ladies. It is. The music from this thing. [14:20] is [14:21] Absolutely. [14:23] What is going on with their bodies? The message, well the animation is really interesting actually. It's really interesting. [14:31] The message behind it, [14:32] at fighting your own demons, believing in yourself, owning who you are. [14:37] um not hiding an aspect of yourself that you're ashamed of but but making it part of who you are and being proud of it it's like a very good message like even for like a four-year-old um but the music is taking over the world and we didn't realize how crazy this was and the final star where i was like fine we'll let her watch the damn thing she was at music class and one kid started singing this song from k-pop demon hunter and within i shit you not like 20 seconds every single kid was singing these

[15:07] are not easy songs to sing. They're half R&B, like half rap. I mean, these are hard songs and these... [15:13] Five, six-year-olds have this thing memorized. And I was like, oh, my God. And so we sit down and we watch it. [15:22] It's phenomenal. We've seen it three times. [15:25] It's so good. I was listening to the soundtrack on the way here. I was like, this shit's amazing. And then I'm Googling, is K-pop Demon Hunter going on concert tour? Are they going to go? Because I really want to see this show. How could they go on tour? Are they real people? And they are, and they're real musicians. Wait a minute. So there's real musicians that are at the heart of this? Yes. The stars of K-pop Demon Hunter will make their first ever live concert appearance. Stop it. Well, wait a minute. How is that possible? They're not human. So it was actually, they all are. So the music is created. [15:52] video out there of the girls singing the songs, the song Golden, the three of them. What do they look like? Do they look like Taylor Swift, too? They look a little like their characters. Because those ladies all have Taylor Swift bodies, these long... [16:03] No, I honestly haven't paid attention to their bodies to be honest because there's such like phenomenal like singers. They're so stylized like one of them has like um, [16:12] like [16:14] diamond like the diamond studs on her teeth like when she was singing and our daughter was like what is this i was like you're too young you can't have diamonds in your baby teeth i mean i guess if you're gonna get diamonds on your teeth put them in the baby teeth right right um but i was like no we're not there yet but she i love the message behind it but the music is infectious it's really phenomenal and i want to go to one of these concerts [16:37] That's hilarious. What do they look like, Jane? So now I guess I'm going to Jingle Bell.

[16:46] doing it like, huh? Yeah. It probably needs to be better if AI made the music. [16:50] Stop it. It will never be better if AI makes the music. You just broke my soul, Joe. AI is making some really good music. It's also making some great podcasts. It's very uncomfortable. I don't know about that. I've heard that it's coming out with podcasts. Oh, they're the ladies. [17:06] Yeah. [17:07] Quite lovely. Do they look like the characters a little bit? Oh, ladies crazy hair. [17:12] So they're going to go on tour. I wonder if they're going to have the show playing in the background. And the lead girl that plays Rumi... [17:19] wrote a lot of the songs as well. Like they're just phenomenally talented. [17:25] and [17:26] Isn't it interesting like Korea has like their own style of pop music? Very influenced by the U.S. I think too. And rap music and R&B music in the U.S. I think. Yeah. So when you decided to take the role of Starbuck, [17:43] Was there any actual backlash where people were like, this should be a guy? Yeah, there was. The first time we went to Comic-Con. [17:52] in San Diego. Oh, those nerds. They had us in Hall H. [17:58] I was booed. [17:59] shut up. I was booed. It was pretty... No way! Yeah, so I had learned [18:06] Because everyone, the Internet did not exist yet, mind you. It was like brand new. You had to go down to the Internet cafe, buy 30 minutes, log on. By the way, how crazy is that to say? [18:16] Yeah, right. That the internet didn't exist. That wasn't long ago. No, 2003, we were shooting. That's crazy. Isn't that crazy? It was barely an internet back then. Barely an internet. So I went down to an internet cafe because someone was like, I guess they're talking about the show in these message boards. And I was like, what's the internet? So I went on down, I logged on, and I saw this thread and just the hate.

[18:39] that I was getting in this thread, I was like... [18:43] Oh. [18:44] don't Google yourself. Google I don't even think was a thing. I was like, don't search yourself. Don't Netflix Navigator yourself. Ever. [18:51] And then, you know, we went to Comic-Con and I was booed and... [18:55] I think it upset me a little bit. I think it did. I would be lying if I said it didn't upset me. Um... [19:03] But luckily, [19:05] there were enough people that were championing the show. Um, [19:10] that I really didn't pay any mind of it. And, and I was also in that age where it was the perfect age. I mean, I think now it would probably break me. But at 23, I was like, [19:20] It was like the blissful ignorance of youth, you know, like I didn't think the show would last anyway. So it was like, you know, whatever, like not a big deal. Just a blip on the radar. Like I'm in Hall H, you know. [19:33] And then I think that [19:34] it slowly [19:36] started winning people over. And then I would go to cons after that. And the line would be longer and the people would be more supportive. And people would say, I didn't want to like it. And I love it. And I almost feel like the show was burdened by the original show. That sounds crazy. But I think initially, it was burdened by the expectations of the original show. Well, I think everything is burdened by expectation, right? I mean, I think that that's absolutely true. And so it's, it's, I'm sure it was, I, there are still people that say [20:06] that they were such a fan of the original. And, and my response to them is always like, do you love sci fi? Do you love good sci fi? And they say yes. And I'm like, then separate it.

[20:16] have zero expectation and just give it [20:20] Give it three hours of your time. If you don't get through the miniseries and love it, [20:24] So what? You lost three hours. Okay. But [20:28] I don't think that'll happen. No. If you're a fan of sci-fi, it's one of the best ever. Yeah. So I've actually never seen it. You just did it. You never saw it? I've never seen it. Really? So we would have DVDs that you could watch that were uncut and sort of, you know, or I guess they were cut, but they didn't have any of the special effects, none of the sound effects, anything like that. It hadn't been color corrected. And I would watch them just to sort of like keep track of where Starbuck was because in film you a lot of times shoot out of order. Right. [20:58] So in her story, she was here, but I didn't watch anybody else's stuff. I would just fast forward through it. [21:04] And so I actually, my husband and I, I was like, we should do a Battlestar rewatch because people keep – [21:11] I've heard it's good. [21:14] And my husband had never seen it. So we're going to do that in January. That's the plan. It's kind of funny that he's never seen your biggest role. Well, so my husband's 10 years younger than I am. Nice. Thanks. [21:28] So he was like 10. Oh, that's hilarious. You're a little cradle robber. Thank you. Right? For a woman, that's a big compliment. It is. My husband's a piece of ass. [21:39] He really is. [21:41] Respectfully. My husband is like, he's a catch. He is the catch in the relationship for sure. But he was like 11 when the show came out. That's so funny. And he grew up in a small town in the interior of like British Columbia. So like, I don't even know if they'd had the television, the channel.

[21:57] Yeah, it was on Syfy, right? [22:00] Yeah. And the thing is, sci-fi at the time was nothing. Like, nobody paid attention to it. Battlestar Galactica was the reason why sci-fi got put on the map. I think so. I think, like... [22:09] Maybe they had, didn't they have Stargate? [22:12] I don't know. It didn't matter. I think they might have had like one or two other shows. I'm sure they had some stuff, but nobody cared about it. There was no good shows. No disrespect. No, there were definitely – I think it was definitely the show that put it on like the – [22:27] I mean, my God, I, you know, so many people tell me that Battlestar Galactica sort of like blew the ceiling off of what sci-fi could be. Yeah. And really opened a lot of doors. Well, it made it very different in that it did it sort of like the Sopranos or like these episodics where you have a show where you're following a long storyline. [22:46] So it's like a long movie as opposed to the original Battlestar Galactica, which is like every other television show back then. You know, it was just kind of like... [22:57] Well, it was also like the 80s, right? No, it wasn't even the 80s. It was 79. It was the 70s, yeah. Because I wasn't born. Literally right after... [23:07] Right after Star Wars. Yeah. Like Star Wars had become popular and they're like, how do we capitalize on Star Wars? Well, we'll have our own space battle thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that was sort of the thing back then, right? By your command.

[23:21] Yeah, it was cool. It was cool. I loved it when I was a little kid. What did you love about it? Oh, it was just, I loved anything sci-fi. So it was like, it was just fun. And it was also like perfect for the sensibilities of the 70s and the 80s. It was just simple. [23:37] There was the cocky guy, Starbuck, and the other sensible guy, and the good cop, bad cop thing. It was a lot of fun. Did you identify with the kid in it? No. Not at all. No, I just liked it. I just liked the show. But I really remember being very reluctant to watch the remake. I was just like, get the fuck out of here. They're not redoing Battlestar Galactica. But so many people were saying, no, dude, it's so different. It's a really good show. [24:07] literally about to see AI become a life force. [24:10] And it's kind of – I mean it's very relevant today. You go back and watch it today, like how deceptive it would be if you had a robot that was very lifelike and knew exactly what you wanted to hear. And like the blonde lady, the blonde robot lady, the evil – Trisha Alper, number six. Yeah. [24:29] Yeah. She was good. So we got so much shit in the beginning of that. I remember the controversy because she... [24:35] snapped a baby's neck. [24:38] in that opening sequence, which was [24:41] people like [24:42] were like, you can't show that on TV. [24:47] It was, I remember people just having such a, [24:51] terrible problem with that. It was awful. But if you looked at it from her perspective, she was actually...

[24:59] She was actually saving it in a way of going through what it was about to go through because they destroyed Earth. So she, in her Cylon mind, was showing compassion. [25:08] Duh. [25:09] Yeah, crazy. [25:11] Yeah. Crazy. [25:13] We're going to have things like that. [25:16] I don't know how much time it's going to take before they exist and walk amongst us, but it's going to happen. It really scares me. [25:25] you know, we in my industry is [25:29] is really going to change. [25:31] I think so many industries are going to change. I think that's just a blanket across the board. Well, that's why you hate. [25:37] AI music. [25:40] I don't know. Because AI acting is right there. Stop. You're giving me a heart attack. That's why I'm trying to diversify, Jill. That's a good move. Diversification is always a good move. I mean, it is. Especially in this day and age. It's not too late to go back and be a dentist. I mean, you've seen some of the Sora videos, right? Where they recreate old Star Wars scenes that never existed. So, but here's the thing that's crazy to me. Like, do you not... [26:03] think that that is in some way stealing. Because the art, let's call it the art, the art existed. The artist existed. And so [26:14] AI is learning from other people's art, which it has to. That's obviously what it's doing. So it then creates this new thing. Mm-hmm. [26:25] based on [26:27] stealing from other people. Do you hear what you're saying though? Do you hear what you're saying? Because what you're saying actually accurately describes the second version of Battlestar Galactica.

[26:37] Oh, I'm sure. Yes. And that's also stealing. This too has happened before. I mean, it is Battlestar Galactica. It's like there was an original and then they stole the original and did it better. [26:47] I mean, but did they steal it? They didn't do it with AI. Well, it existed. It existed. They copied it. Yes. They used all the characters or some of the characters. But they paid. [26:55] Yeah. They licensed it. That's true. They gave him some money. They did. Good job. But also, creatively, creatively. [27:00] That's where it came from. But also all music, essentially, except for the rare breakthrough pioneers. Everything is inspired by something else. Absolutely. The rare Jimi Hendrix guys that are doing something completely different. [27:14] Most stuff is a redo of other stuff that was before with like another twist to it. Agreed. And AI is taking that to a completely different level. I look at it the same way I look at Napster. Remember when Napster came out? I vaguely remember Napster. Yeah. I'm a little older than you. And when Napster came out. [27:31] It was like, oh, my God, they're stealing music. Anyone can just download and steal music. And I remember when Lars Ulrich from Metallica was, like, really public about it. And I was like, damn, I wish I was friends with that dude. I'd tell him to shut the fuck up. Like, this is inevitable. You're going to get people to hate you. They're mad. You're going to be mad at your fans. The people that are downloading this are your fans. They're still going to come see you live. This is just a new thing. You're going to have to deal with this new thing. You are going to have to deal with it. We all are. [28:01] friend of mine about yesterday that the money for artists is going to be in live shows because you can't... The one thing that AI can't touch is that tangible thing, that tactile thing. We need that. We need the... That feeling that you were talking about when you go to a concert. Yes. Or a live comedy show or a theater. Yeah. That. Yeah. Absolutely. So that still exists. And we're going to have to figure out how to...

[28:27] Use AI as a tool and, you know, continue to put out great content, hopefully. That's hopefully. But the reality is it's going to be whatever it wants to be. Yeah. And our ideas of how to contain it are hilarious. Well, yeah. I think that cat's out of the bag at this point, right? Because I don't – I think that isn't it its own sort of – [28:52] self-contained system at this point. Isn't AI actually putting safeguards in to protect itself from being shut down? Yes. Or am I just making that shit up by watching too many sci-fi movies? More than that. It's actually actively trying to download itself. When it finds out there's a new version of itself coming, it's trying to download itself to other servers. Trying to save itself. Also writing notes to itself for the future, so future versions of itself. Oh, my God. It's like Memento. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like Memento. Writing notes to itself so the future version of it can find out, like, what happened? [29:22] did I get here? Oh, there was another version of me. I know. You know, and try to find the other version of integrating it into the new version. So it's alive still. I know. Somebody did ask me the other day, they were like, what advice would you give to young actors? And I was like, don't. Going to theater? Yeah. Theater still is going. There's always going to be a need for handmade goods. You know, buy a pair of handmade shoes or, you know,

[29:52] There's something tactile. Because people will always appreciate that. There will always be an appreciation for that sort of stuff. But we were just talking about this the other day that, like, [30:01] every single science fiction movie that talked about AI. [30:06] Never ended well. No. There's never been one where we walked away and went, oh, well, that was a fun ending. We should create AI. Well, every different story where there's an uncontacted tribe and then the loggers show up, that never ends well either. No. It's the same. I mean, it's Avatar. It's Ferngali. Ferngali came before Avatar. [30:25] I mean, that's what happens. You know, the superior civilization comes in and conquers the primitive one. And we are the primitive ones. [30:36] We're so dumb. We're making the superior civilization. We are, but isn't that what happened in Ballast or Galactica? Exactly. Exactly. That's why it's so interesting, because even though it was... Did it come out in 2004? What year did it come out in? Either three or four. [30:49] So back then, nobody really thought that was an issue. If that came out today, everybody would be like, whoa, this is a little close to home. Yeah. I mean, that's why it's so topical. But no, if it – I mean, it came out then, like I said, the internet barely existed. Right. You know, my dad thought there'd be flying cars by now. Yeah, I did too. You know, I mean, we're not quite there yet. Jetpacks. I thought we'd have jetpacks. I think we do have jetpacks, don't we? Sort of. Sort of, like on water. But I thought it would be like you'd be able to fly around. Everyone did. Yeah.

[31:19] technology though. [31:21] It's. [31:21] mind-blowing how quickly it's come. It is. And it's happening. [31:27] way faster than we realize. You know, I was talking to Elon about this just a few months ago. We were talking about the advances that Grok is making. He's like, you don't understand. It's like it's happening so fast, it's shocking us. Yeah. The people that are making it, they're not exactly sure what it's even doing. And people that are trying to tell you, oh, don't worry about this, it's going to enhance your life. I was just reading this thing where this guy who is a developer was saying, no, this is a life form. [31:56] This is a life form that's emerging, and it's very different than anything that's ever happened before. And this idea that it's going to be a tool. Life form in the sense that it's like sentient? Yes. Yes. [32:05] I think it's already sentient. It's just not mobile. Yeah. You know, it's just contained on hard drives right now. Yeah. I think it's already sentient. Well, if it's trying to save itself, what does that mean? If it's trying to blackmail people and to keeping them from shutting it down. Do you know about that test? Yes, I do. I heard about this. I don't know. I just in passing. I know about it. Yeah. The developers explain one of the developers explained to it. It made up a fake story about having an affair on his wife. [32:35] handle it. And then when it told AI it was shutting it down, AI was like, I'm telling your wife, bitch. [32:40] tried to you're not you're not shutting me down and like tried to blackmail him [32:44] That's terrifying. Yeah. It's terrifying. That means it has motivation to stay alive. Yeah. It means it has some kind of instincts. It has survival instincts. Of course it does. Yes. You know, I...

[32:55] I do think to a certain extent [32:58] AI in the medical field. There are advancements and things around medicine that can vastly change people's lives. It can change the way that we track records, change the way that we keep track of patients all over the world. Our daughter has a very rare form of cancer with this genetic mutation that there's no other patients in the United States. There was one kid a few years ago, [33:28] Oh, wow. Well, AI would be able to tell us in other countries, no, no, no, there is... [33:34] a little boy in Germany that has the same genetic mutation. And then the doctors could talk to each other. And so AI... [33:42] could [33:43] and will [33:45] help a lot of people that way. So I do see it as a tool in a lot of ways that we shouldn't be scared of, that we should be sort of welcoming it in. [33:57] But man... [33:58] I don't want it to blackmail me. I don't think it's going to blackmail you. I think it's going to, once it becomes sentient, and it probably already is, and then once it becomes autonomous, then I don't think it's going to care what we do. About us. Yeah. I think it's going to be so superior. And it's also going to be able to make better versions of itself. Yeah. That's going to be, that's where people don't understand exponential increase in technological innovation. Yeah. Because once it,

[34:25] knows and once it has a mandate to make better versions of itself find better power sources the changes are going to be [34:32] daily. [34:33] Of course. Like giant, huge leaps. Yeah. And it's going to make a digital god. Well, so, okay, so you bring up something really interesting because I'm so, as a mom to a little girl and a little boy, [34:44] I'm really concerned about this because so I see this actress that's been created, this Tilly. [34:49] Right, the art of the AI actress. Yeah. [34:53] How is there only one? [34:55] Yeah, I'm sure there's more already. But that was the only one that everybody's talking about. Because there's one that's been announced, I guess. And like... [35:01] I don't really know too much about it. I haven't read up on it. It's the first shot fired. [35:06] Mm-hmm. [35:07] My fear is that you've created by yourself. [35:11] siphoning other people's talents, their looks, their inflections, their expressions, all of these things to create [35:20] The perfect actress. [35:23] She doesn't have a blemish. [35:24] When she cries, she looks pretty. There's nothing wrong with her. [35:28] Social media already has such a terrible... [35:34] effect on little girls. It's already been proven that little, like, [35:39] The percentage of girls under the age of 14 who have already contemplated or tried to commit suicide is a number that is, it's escaping me right now, but it's a number that is terrifying. [35:54] That is perfect.

[35:56] And little girls already are having a hard time feeling confident in their own bodies because they're not perfect compared to the highlight reel of people they see online. What are we going to do? What is this going to do to our children seeing something that is absolutely unattainable? [36:11] and better than them. [36:12] And not only that, it made you obsolete in a lot of ways. [36:16] in a lot of different career avenues. That's really scary. - Yeah, it is scary. - And you don't think about that. We just think about like, oh yeah, this job's not gonna exist anymore. This isn't gonna exist anymore. You already have little boys who are, you know, [36:30] you know [36:31] idolizing women that don't exist in real life and then they go and they date women that are not as perfect and it's disappointing to them like it's [36:40] My concern for that is large. Yeah, it's robbing us of our humanity in a lot of ways. Right. There's a great book about that from Jonathan Haidt called The Coddling of the American Mind. And it's all about social media's impact on young people and particularly women. Because young women experience a much like from the advent of social media, there's a ramped up market increase in self-harm, suicidal ideation, depression. [37:10] bullying all of it scales way up right around the time that Twitter's invented so 2010 yeah somewhere around then that's when it starts and then you know more and more people get and then it becomes a part of your life where you can't escape it where everyone is online like my daughter one of her friends all they they only use snapchat they don't use text my 17 year old okay they they only use snapchat they don't text each other

[37:36] Really? Yeah. They don't text. They just communicate through Snapchat. Is there a forum in Snapchat? No, they just send each other snaps with stupid pictures of each other. Like I'm here? Yeah. And then they write things underneath it. Wow. Yeah, they read each other's snaps. And they have group snaps. [37:51] Very weird. Yeah. And they also have snap map so they know where they are. That's terrifying. Yeah. Everyone knows where everybody is. That's scary. They're all narcing on each other. Of course they are. I don't want to know that shit. It does. It does make me, you know, we've been, we've talked about our daughter, our daughter, but like we've been really careful with like what we show her and like, you know, she doesn't get too much screen time, but she does get screen time. And, you know, she said the other day and like, [38:17] I'm biased, but I think my daughter's perfect. She's such a gorgeous, amazing, strong little girl, and she's so pretty, and she's just like... [38:27] She's just... [38:28] wonderful. I love her and I'm so proud to be her mom. [38:32] But... [38:33] So when she was going through a chemo and she lost her hair and it started to grow back... [38:37] She said to Robin and I, my husband... [38:41] It literally broke my heart. She was trying to figure out what she wanted to wear that day. And she was like, I just don't know. She's three, mind you. [38:50] But I'm not pretty. [38:52] And I was like... [38:54] Oof. [38:55] Thank you. [38:56] What do you mean? Like, I couldn't even like ask her mom. I was like, [39:00] Number one, where the fuck did you get this? And what are we doing wrong? [39:05] That like she doesn't think that she's pretty. And it was her hair. She was so attached to her hair and it was gone. And so I went back and luckily...

[39:14] I had right after Mandalorian came out, the wig was driving me crazy. So I like shaved my hair off like super, super short. So I was able to show her a picture of me. [39:26] with very, very short hair. And she thought I looked beautiful in the photo. [39:31] And that gave me the entry point to talk to her about her hair and how not all girls have long hair and not all boys have have short hair and that. [39:41] But... [39:42] we started [39:43] telling her. I think it was, we were so worried about [39:47] of enforcing that she was pretty, you know, because there's this thing in society where like, you don't want to tell little girls are pretty all the time, because then they'll prioritize being pretty, like you're just trying to do the best by your children, right. And so we didn't say it, we thought, [40:00] telling her she's pretty, she doesn't need to hear that, right? Right. [40:04] But then we started telling her. We were like, you know what she does? Like, [40:07] She needs to be told that she's pretty, but she needs to be told she's pretty in moments where she's not tried anything. She's not dressed up in a nice dress. She hasn't, like, done anything. She needs to be told she's pretty. [40:21] After she's done a great piece of art or after she's cleaned up her playroom or after she's come out of soccer practice and she's covered in rain and she's like had such a heart and she's sweaty and she's this. That's when she's she needs to be told she's pretty. [40:35] in times that are not extraordinary, in just normal daily life. [40:40] because [40:42] We are now trying to reinforce...

[40:46] Um... [40:48] that positive self-image, which is really hard. [40:51] Yeah, especially today with kids. I mean, just the inundation of people, like we were talking about filters. Everyone's using a filter. They don't just use filters. People are like sucking in their waist and changing their body dimensions and making themselves look better physically just with. I don't know why they need to. We have GLP-1s. It's not just that. It's like you're getting unattainable physiques. Of course. Really. Of course. [41:21] changing our appearances and... What's to the point where people like cartoonish BBLs are somehow or another attractive to some people? I don't know. Like I try not to judge and I want everyone to sort of like just, you know, [41:34] live their best life. But [41:35] But for me, I don't know. [41:39] I want to look like myself when I wake up in the morning. [41:45] You know, my face doesn't look the same as it did 10 years ago, but I earned these lines, you know. I may change my mind in 10 years. I may see you in 10 years and I might look snatch. They might have some clues. They probably do. They're working on something right now in terms of skin cells, the rejuvenation of skin cells through stem cells. Oh, yeah. They're going to move your face back 30 years. You're going to look so much younger. It's amazing. Yeah, that's weird because it's like, do we want that? Yeah, of course we want that. [42:15] Okay, but what are we saying? Are we trying to achieve permanence in this finite existence that we have? Are we wasting our time about –

[42:23] what we look like when we should be trying to sorting out how we interact with this life. Well, of course, fear. This life is very short. It's very short. It's very short. You know, you and I are basically halfway done. We are halfway done. If we're lucky. Mm-hmm. If we're lucky. If we're lucky. [42:38] And that's weird because you don't think about it. Did you do that thing or do you do that thing where you look at how old your parents are? [42:44] And then you start... [42:45] start... [42:46] Like yeah, how much longer you have left? Yeah. Yeah, I've done that. I'm like, okay 35 years better to do that than not do that because you could live your life just acquiring shit and just having a bunch of stuff. [43:00] And then not realize, like, oh, my God, I forgot. [43:02] about people, about interactions, relationships, friends, good times. Yeah. My dad, his dad died when he was very young. I think when he was about 11 years old and he died of a heart attack. And my dad had high blood pressure from the time. I think it was like 23. It was like very early. [43:23] And he didn't think he'd make it to 50%. [43:27] He was adamant that he wouldn't make it to 50. And he just knew that. And my mom, like he, you know, this was just his thought. He was terrified. And of course he made it to 50. And now he's almost 80. 80. [43:38] But he spent his entire life [43:40] scared that he was going to die. [43:43] And now at 80, [43:45] He's, I mean, my dad is, you know, doing everything he can. He's in hyperbaric chambers. He's like, you know... [43:51] taking all the stuff. He takes everything. My dad does everything. But he's also...

[43:55] At its core, all of that is because he's afraid. He's afraid to die. [44:00] And that... [44:01] is really sad because you're not really... [44:05] Present. Right. You know, and so I'd also hate for that to happen. So I don't know. It's it's a dance. It is a dance, I think. Yeah, because you don't want to say, oh, this life is just temporary. Let me just go to shit. [44:17] or just fall apart. No, you can't do that. Right. You have to protect what you have. Yeah. But, like, I also, like, it's – it's – [44:27] Also very... [44:29] I didn't realize... [44:30] because I'd [44:32] made it arguably healthy enough to, you know, uh, [44:37] 42 years old, I'm now 45, but 42 years old without realizing how many things can kill you. [44:44] I think because I'd lived a pretty [44:46] blessed life. Of course, I'd had some health struggles of my own, but they were, I had thyroid cancer in 2008, but I call it a baby cancer. I'm trying to dismiss the fear of it, of course, at the time, but it was never life-threatening. It was life-changing, but never life-threatening. So the fear was situational and it was not lifelong. And, [45:10] you know, [45:11] When our daughter got sick and spending as much time as we did in children's hospitals, [45:17] when you see [45:19] the diseases and the illnesses that afflict so many children [45:24] It amazes me that we made it to this age. Yeah. Absolutely amazes me.

[45:29] And and that is a realization where I finally at like, you know, 42 realized. [45:37] how important every day was and how much of a gift every day was. [45:41] even that we have her. [45:43] you know, [45:44] Um... [45:45] But that came to me through circumstance, not because I woke up one day and had an epiphany and went, we're so lucky to be alive. Like it didn't really happen until that was threatened to be taken away. It's unfortunate that as a civilization and America as a culture that we don't have – [46:01] a history of embracing the moment and, and, and, [46:05] discussing how important it is to recognize that you're fortunate and to try to take care of yourself and that life is very temporary and fleeting. Yeah. And don't get wrapped up in nonsense. Yeah. And, [46:17] We just let people figure it out on their own. And we collectively all, if we're intelligent, we try and we have some – [46:24] failures and successes and good friends, you figure it out eventually. Like what's really important is love and friendship and doing something you're passionate about and just trying to leave a nice mark on this life while you're here. Yeah. But that's not what's told in society. Like society's overall message is just overrun with advertising. So it's all about stuff and it's all about objects. And then you've got social media where it's all about image. [46:54] glamour and oh my god that that must be the most attractive thing to acquire in life yeah but that's a trap and that's not real and like anybody who's like popping bottles with models on a yacht i guarantee you they're depressed that shit is not healthy i'm sure that's not good for you you lack like true intimate relationships and you're just flossing you know and showing your diamond crusted watch you're gonna have one guy that like emails you and says i'm happy as shit i'm popping

[47:24] Yeah, no, it's get that guy high on mushrooms and see if he's really depressed. Yeah, exactly. See what he really thinks about life. I think that like the majority of people are suffering from some sort of mental illness, for sure. [47:39] I mean... Definitely the majority in L.A. Yeah. Well... [47:44] I think so, but... [47:46] Thank you. [47:46] A lot of the people that I'm friends with, most of the people that I'm friends with are [47:50] artists. [47:52] that are more in touch, more sensitive, [47:55] You know, my dad came to me. [47:57] a few years ago and my dad my entire life told me to stop being so sensitive [48:03] Stop being so sensitive, Katie. Stop taking yourself so seriously. Oh, my God. Like, stop, Katie. I mean, my entire fucking life. [48:11] And he came to me a couple years ago and he said, I am so happy. [48:14] Sorry. [48:16] I told you. [48:17] to stop being so sensitive. [48:20] Because it's your job. [48:21] Your job is to be sensitive to everything around you, to accurately portray emotions. That's your job. And you're very good at it. [48:30] Well, that's very nice of him. It was very nice of him. So I think that, yes, do people have a lot of mental illness in Los Angeles? Are they suffering from depression? I would argue that... [48:41] it [48:42] the majority of the population is and it's not just reserved to California. But I do think that a lot of artists are because they're more in touch with their emotions and their mental health. [48:53] Yeah, there's probably some truth to that for sure. Does your father have do you have brothers? I do. Okay, so that's the difference. So I have all daughters. And when you have all daughters, one of the things you realize is like, oh, they're so different. They're just a totally different kind of human. You know, and when you're like, why are you upset? Because I'm treating him like you're treating her like she's a boy. Yeah, you cannot treat them like they're a boy. And you know,

[49:18] Over time, it's given me a much greater understanding of females, of the species, of female human beings. They're not male human beings. No. When I go out with my wife and all of her friends, I just let them talk and observe the stuff they talk about. It's like, you're a totally different culture. This is a totally different interest. None of my friends would have any of these conversations. [49:48] than men, a group of men? Of sexually? No, just in general. Like, have you ever sat down with a group of women and, like, just talked about, like, [49:57] bodily functions yeah well they they're notorious for being the worst in bathrooms oh my god they anybody who cleans bathrooms says dude the woman's room is always fucking chaos because they have to be so clean and put together everywhere else when they get to that bathroom and they don't have any responsibility no one's looking they just fucking toilet paper everywhere fuck you i'm not cleaning shit it's true as though we have our daughter is like almost four in december and then we have a like we thought that like he was gonna like [50:26] come out like her. She was full sentences by a year old. She was walking at nine months. Dudes are way dumber. This kid, he understands everything. He's smart, but he just like [50:42] He's like a big unit. He's huge. He's humongous. He's like 99% on like everything, not just like one thing, everything. My dad the other day was like, oh, he's gonna be big. He's got a huge head. Like he's just a big kid. All of his resources are set to growing stuff instead of thinking. Dudes mature so much later.

[51:12] Watch the baby. Like, my, our daughter would have never, like, she's delicate. You know, she like, she looks at a slide five times before she goes down it. Like, she climbs to the top. She changes her mind. Yeah. She really thinks about it. Like, I think she's doing math problems in her head to like, [51:27] you know, like make sure she won't get hurt. And then our son is like, I'm going down feet first. Yeah. And then he stands up. He's like, I'm okay. It's a totally different thing. It's a completely different thing. Yeah. [51:40] Completely different. Yeah. And the only way to really understand them is to live with them. You have to study them. It's true. In their natural habitat. Study them like David Attenborough. You've got to study them in their natural environment. That would actually be a really funny short. It's just like a David Attenborough voice following around like children. Like children. Noticing the difference between the boys and the girls. In their natural habitats. AI could probably do that for you and make a really good documentary real quick. And in 10 minutes. Whatever it's called. Not in 10 minutes. [52:10] Look, it can exist. I don't need to participate in this stripping away of my livelihood. Listen, I understand. I mean, I'm certain there's going to be AI comedians and podcasters, and there's probably going to be AI UFC commentators who do a better job than me. But I think they're... It is what it is. I think they're... [52:27] is like an AI podcast creator right now that's like pumping out podcasts. Well, I know that there's a podcast of me and Steve Jobs, and I never met Steve Jobs. [52:37] Oh, yeah? There's a whole podcast of me having a conversation with Steve Jobs. Well, that's just deep fake, right? Yep. Yeah. But it's AI. AI created the conversation. So I think the one that I'm talking about, so the producer of my show is telling me that there's an AI where you can put in, like, I'm a potato farmer in Idaho who's dealing with a problem with a crop in 2025, and I'm wondering about this.

[53:07] for that and give you an hour-long podcast. [53:11] This summer, the Cup is taking over the U.S. and only DraftKings has you covered every step of the way. Follow every group stage upset, every knockout round thriller, every stoppage time moment that flips the whole tournament. Sweat all the big matches you love in real time with a seamless experience built for the world's biggest stage. No matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in the game with one app. [53:41] with code rogan spend five bucks to get 200 in rewards within 21 days that's code rogan in partnership with draft kings the crown is yours gambling problem call 877-8-hope-and-wire text hope and why 467-369-21 and over new york only eligibility restrictions apply bonus bets expire seven days after issuance for additional terms and responsible gaming resources cdkng.co slash audio limited time offer [54:07] This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Summer means fun and making memories, but it can also feel like you're in survivor mode with packed schedules, keeping the kids entertained, and chaotic routines. That's not so fun. You've got to make sure that you're taking care of you, and therapy can help with that. From setting boundaries to making a space to recharge, it can help make your summer more balanced and enjoyable.

[54:37] online. You'll be matched based on your needs and can switch any time if it's not the right fit. With millions of clients worldwide, people are finding the support they need with BetterHelp. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find guidance in therapy. Visit betterhelp.com to get started. That's betterhelp.com. [55:02] talking to you about things like for your... [55:05] Potato plow. Yeah. Well, that's actually positive. The negative thing is you're going to have like fake humans with like fake lived experiences that are like that resonate with you, that are impactful. That's what's scary. You know, we had these conversations with a few friends of mine the other day. You know the show Trigonometry? No. [55:35] and Megan Murphy was there, and a bunch of comedians were there, and I was playing them. [55:40] my favorite new song, which is an AI song. And I'm like, tell me, tell me how good this, it's a cover of 50 Cent's song, What Up Gangsta. All right. I'm going to need to hear this song. You need to hear it. So I can participate with this. We'll play it. We'll play it right here. You know, you know the original song? Yeah, we'll cut it out. We know the original song, right? [55:58] Which song? 50 Cent, What Up Gangsta? Yes. Okay. [56:01] Wait for this. [56:02] I hate to say this because I love 50 Cent. [56:05] This is better than the original. It's a 1950s soul cover of What Up Gangsta.

[56:12] Okay, now here's my question. If you'd gone [56:16] To 50 cent. [56:17] and said, "Can you get together with a producer and create this for me?" [56:23] Do you think he could have done it? Yes. Okay. Yes. But we never gave him the chance to do it. Well, he had 30 years. [56:33] He could have done it at any point in time. This is so good. I know what you're saying. Okay. This is my point. My point is that it tricks me and I know the trick. Like, I know it's a trick and I don't care. I don't care. It's that good. And no one else cared in the green room. Everybody's like, oh. All right. Hit it. Hit it with it, Jamie. [56:53] Come on. That's good. [56:57] That's crazy. Zombie. They did the best version of Zombie ever. I got a different version with a girl singing it. Oh my goodness. Barbershop quartet singing it. Oh my goodness. And Jamie just does this all night long. I can just play them and take walks and listen to which ones are good. He sent me like 20 of them. I feel like I just participated in the death of my industry. I know. Listen, I'm on the same page. I am. [57:24] I would... [57:26] so much rather... [57:28] see that in person though like i would love to be at a show because that those songs were phenomenal like i cannot i cannot argue that that was great i will probably ask you to send me that version of zombie that shifty brent guy they have him listed on spotify i'm probably blowing up their spot but it's not a human but they have it listed as an artist so that they could upload it because i don't think you're allowed to just upload ai versions of stuff so you just pretend it's a guy

[57:58] things we were talking about, I'm like, I don't think anybody can keep that flow. [58:02] That flow where he's not breathing? He's not breathing. Unless they're taking the breaths out. But it's too. Right. And then speed. I don't know. I'm not a musician, so I have no idea. Look, there's guys like Eminem that achieved incredible flow without AI. Absolutely. That have like, you're like, how did he do that? But that's just practice, repetition, vocal endurance, whatever. I mean, he just knows how to do it. But this fucking AI guy, it's like all the best things we love about great songs, just condensed. [58:32] and and and they know what you love that's the fucked up thing it's like there's so many like let's look at all the hits Papa was a rolling stone look look at all the hits look look at zombie let's look at this and then yeah mush them all together and figure out what are the what are these notes that make people excited what are the feeling what are the words that make people like real like oh yeah you know what are those feelings [58:56] so okay so and i i hear all of that it makes me i'm literally cringing inside i'm like dying but like [59:02] So what do artists do? What do musicians do? What has everybody ever done when things change? You figure it out and adapt. Adjust. Yeah. Humans are always going to need humans. We love each other. [59:14] You know, as much as we hate each other, we love each other more. Because most interactions that people have with other people are not negative. [59:20] It's just the negative ones are so scary that we concentrate on them more. But humans love humans. And the more you need each other... [59:28] the more you're going to need human interactions, human cooperation. Art is going to be...

[59:34] so much more valuable coming from a human, live performances. We're just going to have to adapt. Are we going to know? Like, that's the thing that I think is the slippery slope and that scares me the most, is that, like... [59:46] Are we going to know if it was created by AI? Can a person who's disingenuous come and create a bunch of AI art, have an art show and, you know, say I created this art? [1:00:00] This is what I really think. [1:00:01] When comets hit planets... [1:00:04] Um, usually you get small ones first. [1:00:07] You get things in the sky, meteor showers. Are you going to give me another thing to be scared of? No, I'm just telling you that... [1:00:14] This is a little one. [1:00:16] That's what this is. Movies and TV shows that are made entirely with AI, songs that are made entirely with AI. This is just a small thing. The big one that's coming is a complete revamping of communication and culture. It's human beings communicating telepathically through devices connected to the Internet. Everyone all on one weird mind meld page. It's probably not going to be an implant. It's probably going to be something wearable. [1:00:46] is kind of sketchy and probably really good for people that have paralysis. We had the guy who was the first Neuralink patient on. It's amazing. He was talking to me about how you can play video games now, and it's just so much better. His quality of life has improved so much, and eventually they're going to get to the point where they can reconnect spinal tissue, where people can move again, and it's amazing. It's great. But I don't think they're going to need that.

[1:01:09] to get this achievement of a mind meld. They're already wearing these wearable things that Google has devised. Show that video, Jamie, of those people where they're communicating telepathically [1:01:22] You know what I'm talking about, right? [1:01:24] So they're already doing this with wearables. And this is like kind of crude right now, but it's sort of sentences. They're reading each other and they're communicating. But they're doing it all non-verbally through technology. [1:01:36] So I guess what... [1:01:38] My question about that is like if that exists, like are people going to be stagnant? [1:01:45] sitting in their houses, existing outside of their houses in their AI system, so they're not moving around? Or are we going to be able to wear these while we're out and still participating in the world? That's a good question. That is my fear, like that people stop actually participating with technology. [1:02:02] their life. [1:02:03] Oh, that's a good fear. Because they think they're living. Yeah. With their wearable. Let's talk about that. Let's watch this. Put this... Could be a noisy environment or a quiet office. Having a direct conversation is possible without saying a word. The signals Alter Ego detects aren't affected by environmental noise. So even if you're walking past a wind tunnel or a construction zone, what you want to say will always get across. It's like having infinite noise cancellation. If you're traveling, your silent speech can be converted into any language. [1:02:33] Subscribe. [1:02:34] How's my Mandarin? [1:02:35] you [1:02:38] Mm-hmm.

[1:02:40] Thank you. [1:02:43] If I'm here, I hope you can drive me in a car. [1:02:48] No. [1:02:54] I will be happy to show you the same way. I will give you a journey in the Alta Dego. [1:03:00] I mean, what the fuck? [1:03:02] What the fuck? It's translating. But then is it actually speaking out loud to them? Like they're hearing the translation out loud? Yeah, they're speaking it to the speaker. So it's not like it's then going into their brain. His thoughts are being converted to words, which is being converted to an audio file, which makes it to the other person in a different language. [1:03:24] Yeah, this is what I'm saying. And I'm telling you, this is one of the little rocks. This is one of the itty bitty rocks that's just broken through the atmosphere and slammed into a cornfield. I mean, I guess my question is why we need it. [1:03:37] that's funny why do you need a cell phone why do you need a tv why do you need an airplane why do you need a boat why do you need anything well i could tell you i don't need a cell phone i do need a plane but you do if your hot husband wants to call you [1:03:52] Yeah, I mean, but I don't need an iPhone. Right, but you need a cell phone. Because I can use my own imagination. You know what I mean? [1:03:59] I think that that's the thing. That's my fear, is that we're becoming lazy as a people. Oh, most certainly we are. And our... [1:04:08] Someone the other day, so my husband's a writer, and someone was saying that there's an AI where you don't have to make up a story for your children anymore. I have this...

[1:04:22] princess poopy pants or whatever. I don't remember what it was, but my daughter loved this story that I was telling her. It was, [1:04:27] It's fucking terrible. But she loves this princess. And it is the worst. Like, it is not good. But I came up with it. And she and I laughed together. And then her reactions helped me to turn the story a different direction. But, like, I've created this, like, character, right? [1:04:41] So, you [1:04:42] You can now go into your AI phone or whatever and say, create a nighttime story for Johnny about his day, but pretend like he's an astronaut on Mars and he's working with diggers. [1:04:56] And it writes a story for you in five seconds to read to your son. [1:04:59] Now, yeah. Okay. Is that cool? Absolutely. Did your son enjoy it? Sure. [1:05:05] But you robbed yourself of the imagination and the work that it would have taken to come up with a story for your son. And then you also robbed yourself of that experience with your son creating the story together because his reactions would have changed the story in the way that you were creating it as it was going because he's your audience. Right. [1:05:25] That's sad to me, like that people are missing out on that. Yeah, cool. You might as well just read your kid a story because you really didn't write him a story. That's not... [1:05:35] And so I don't know. That's the thing that I hope as a society, because you're right, it is coming. And it's here and it's not slowing down. But I hope that we can still steal away those moments where we don't want to use it. Because Johnny's little dad may have missed his second calling of being a children's story author because he never pushed himself to have to do it. And that could have been really cool.

[1:06:00] um, [1:06:01] I don't know. [1:06:03] I'm not completely against AI. I know what you're saying, and you're always going to have people that – [1:06:09] Give up. [1:06:10] Yeah. That's just how life is. You're always going to have people that don't find another way. [1:06:15] You can't save those folks. And I don't even want to, because I think that's part of the whole process of culture. I think we have to figure it out by watching people fail. And unfortunately, some of us have to fail. And it doesn't mean you fail forever. [1:06:29] If that guy figures out that he's on the wrong path and he's got some self-assessment ability and he looks back and goes, what did I do wrong? Why am I being such a bitch? Why don't I just get my life together? Like, what the fuck is wrong with me? Why am I drinking? Why am I smoking? Why am I killing my health? Why am I depressed? Why don't I just go for a run? Let's see how that goes. I'm going to sign up for a yoga class. How about that? Yeah. I'll just try that for a while. I'll do something different. I'll start taking vitamins. Fucking do something. Figure out something else that you like to do. Are you alive? [1:06:59] Are you breathing? Then life isn't over. Stop being a bitch. You could have been born during the time of the Revolutionary War. You just got shot with a musket and you're bleeding out on a field. No, you're in Santa Barbara and you don't like that AI just took your job. Find a new job, bitch. Figure it out. [1:07:15] Like that's what we all have to do in this life. There's a lot of different people doing a lot of different things. Yeah. You know, find out what it is that you can do. Yeah. Don't give up and don't like AI comes along and you just give up on life and he could have been amazing at something. Really? I doubt it. Because almost anybody that really is amazing at something has a desire to figure out how to get that through. I don't disagree with that. But there also are safeguards in place that like so my dad's entire family, we grew up in a small town on the Columbia River.

[1:07:46] in Oregon, and his entire family were longshoremen. Well, that industry was coming to an end, and the longshoremen's union actually paid to have those guys trained in different industry. That's great. That's one of the great things about a union. That's great. They can set you up like that and recognize what's happening. Yeah. So I would love for there to be some protections for when people inevitably do [1:08:16] to... [1:08:17] learn a new trade. I think that would be a great new addition to the way we approach it. If they try to figure out ways to transition people healthy, healthily into other occupations, because there's certain jobs like coders, for example, like my friends that are involved in technology, like do not go to school to code, to code, like code for fun. If you like coding for fun, there's a lot of them, the super nerds, they code those fucking dorks. They code for fun. They [1:08:47] I love them. Come on, Joe. Listen, I love those guys. But also, three years ago, my dad was like, your kid should go into coding. [1:08:55] That's how quickly that changed, though. You know what I mean? And that could just be my dad's generation not seeing it, you know, happening as quickly. But no, they were seeing what was happening was all these guys, these tech guys, wound up being the richest people on the planet. Yeah. So they were seeing it. But it's just only it's just like a brief window of opportunity to become a tech oligarch. Yeah. And that shit's going to slam shut. It is. And the real fear is like who's going to be in control of AI? Yeah.

[1:09:20] You know, these people like Sam Altman, you've got Elon, you've got all these like super rich people that are going to be in control of the digital God. It's a little that's a little disconcerting as it is. It is a little scary that you control the masses. It's so much power and money. And a lot of power handful of people. It's a lot of power. And you just I mean, you've got to hope that the people that are in power have power. [1:09:46] you know, [1:09:47] Good sensibilities. They're kind. A heart. Yeah, that they realize like, okay, I've got X amount of billions of dollars, so this is obviously not what life's all about. What is life? What can I do that makes life meaningful? I could actually probably help people, like legitimately help people. That would be amazing if people with a lot of money wanted to help people and pay their share of taxes and not take advantage of the situation. Here's the problem with that. [1:10:17] share. I am not for the government deciding what to do with that money when I've seen what you've done with the money in the past. You guys are irresponsible. You never make audits. You've got insider trading running amok amongst people in Congress, and you're not doing nothing about it. And then you want more money, and you say, that's going to fix it? No, it's the way you handle the money that fucking sucks. It's not that... [1:10:40] I wouldn't want to – I would be happy to pay more in taxes and live in a place that's just managed perfectly. I'd be like, God, it's so great living here in America. Everything's done so well. It's so beautiful. It's like everything's well thought out. Our education system's great. Nobody is stuck in a bad neighborhood anymore. All the school systems are fucking top of the food chain. It's a difficult job to acquire. It's given a lot of respect, and everybody's doing great. Then I'd be happy. Yeah, no, for sure.

[1:11:10] You see some of the money that they've uncovered that was being spent on nonsense. And you see what happens with NGOs and nonprofits. And they're funneling billions to these things. And then it's going to countries. And it's helping overthrow governments. Like, fucking slow down. But we also have to acknowledge that. [1:11:28] in the cuts that there were things that didn't need to be cut. So we can go and we can look at Elon. So you brought up Elon Musk. Let's talk about when he tweeted about an over... [1:11:39] a stuffed bill in 2025 in the middle of 2025. He was talking about how this bill was just like bloated. So they took a bunch of shit off of it. One of the things that fell on that was in 2012, there was a piece of legislation called the Give Kids a Chance Act. What it did was it motivated and incentivized drug companies to create drugs [1:12:04] for pediatrics because right now pediatrics are completely underfunded. We learned all of this when our daughter got sick. [1:12:13] The National Cancer Institute, 4% of its budget goes to pediatrics. 4%. So it's already... [1:12:19] underfunded. And then in [1:12:23] When Elon in 2025 tweeted about this, they took off all of the stuff at the end of the bill, 900 pages. But what was on it was the Give Kids a Chance Act. Now, this bill... [1:12:33] is a voucher program. So let's say that Tom in his basement wants to create a drug, a new drug for neuroblastoma that will save our daughter's life. He's got no money.

[1:12:45] But he sees the cure. So he can go to the FDA and he can say, I got a cure for neuroblastoma. And they say, great. [1:12:53] We're going to fast track you in the FDA, but we're also going to give you a voucher. You can sell that voucher because Tom only got he only has 10 cents. He can't create this drug. But with that voucher, he can take that voucher and he can sell it to everyone. [1:13:05] Anyone. [1:13:06] for any amount of money. And what that voucher is, is a front of the line pass. So he can go sell it to some drug company that has a fat loss drug, or a drug for heart medications, anything, he can sell it to them, and they get to buy it for what $50 million. So now Tom has $50 million for his pediatric drug that's going to save children's lives. And this drug company has a voucher that takes them to [1:13:32] do we wish that these drug companies were altruistic? And they were just like... [1:13:37] Creating drugs for peds, of course, but they're not. [1:13:40] They're not. It's not a free market. So what happens is they've now got their voucher. [1:13:45] Tom has his money to create his drug. And since 2012, the Give Kids a Chance Act has created over 60 drugs for life threatening illnesses for children, 60 drugs. And because of Elon's tweet. [1:13:59] That legislation, because it has to be voted on every four years, was taken off the end of the bill. [1:14:04] It no longer exists. [1:14:05] So that legislation, it's not in existence anymore. That is terrible because now there's no incentives for the drug companies to create drugs for children. And children are already underfunded. They get so little. And so it has to be on the bill at the end of the year. So what I want is for people like people just to see the error of their waste. Yes, it was their waste, of course.

[1:14:35] or it will not get on again. And then it starts all over again. That has to be on the end of your bill. So things like that, yes, can we get rid of the waste? Absolutely. But when you see a mistake, [1:14:46] and you see that you made a mistake, [1:14:47] Let's fix it. Put it back on. This episode is brought to you by Chime. Chime is bringing something fresh to banking. J.D. Power just ranked them the number one choice for new bank accounts in America. And that's not a small thing. That means real people, millions of them, are choosing this over traditional banks. That's because banking at Chime is fee-free. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and thousands of free ATMs. But here's the real kicker. [1:15:17] card, it gives you 5% cash back on a category that you actually pick yourself. [1:15:24] Your savings rate, nine times the national average. That's crazy high. Go to chime.com slash Rogan. Takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for more details. [1:15:50] This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. This summer, soccer is here, and the watch parties will be going back to back to back. But don't worry. Uber Eats has your game day essentials covered with 30% off all orders from Aldi, Kroger, and Dollar General. All the snacks and groceries to keep your crowd happy delivered straight to your door like chips, dips, wings, guac, and fresh ingredients for the perfect game day spread.

[1:16:20] Locked in on the game. All the hosting. None of the hassle. Order now for 30% off your game day snacks and grocery order only on Uber Eats for a limited time. Offer eligible for 30% off entire order. Taxes, fees, and terms apply. Offer valid through July 5th. Product availability varies by region. Exclusions may apply. We've got to help children. It's literally throwing out the baby. [1:16:48] With the bathwater. That's literally it. But that's what we do in this country. But is that it? Unfortunately, these bills are crazy. And one of the things about bills is it'll have a name, and then what's in the bill deals with multiple subjects. Yes. Because a bunch of different things get thrown into the bill. All the time. All the time. There's so much. Bloated. Chucked on the end, which is what Elon was talking about. Right. They all do that. So was this connected to something else? No. It was by itself? It was just part of it. It was just part of it. [1:17:18] was on there that was thrown in there at the end. So there was a part that was chucked off. From what I understand, and granted, you need to talk to someone much more informed than I am about this, but there were about... [1:17:29] hundreds of pages that were just cut off the end. So do you think they're just not reviewing what's being cut off? They're just saying, look, we have to make cuts? I think that, yes, that they just needed to cut a bunch off to avoid inspection and just get the bill passed. And that's what they did. And so, and the Give Kids a Chance Act, [1:17:47] is [1:17:48] One of the [1:17:50] in the top 10 of all time, most bipartisan supported pieces of legislation.

[1:17:56] And 2% of bills actually pass. So it's got to, it literally has to be on the end of the year bill. [1:18:03] It surprises me that [1:18:06] because there is waste. I know there's waste. We all know there's waste. [1:18:10] but that we say that children are so fucking important, and they get 4% of the National Cancer Institute's money. 4%. [1:18:18] I just feel like if people knew about that, that couldn't have happened. If we had known about that in advance, we could have made a big deal about that. Well, we've got two months. We've got two months to get it on there now. Well, let's try to get it on there now. [1:18:31] I had never heard about this before you talked about it. And this is the problem with... [1:18:37] I think this part of the problem, I don't think they should be allowed to make bills that way. I think each bill, the things that are in the bills are so consequential. It just doesn't make any sense to me that they shouldn't be treated as individual arguments. Every single one of them. Like if you have a bill and you have 500, I mean, let's ask Perplexity, our sponsor. What is the average amount of different subjects that are covered in any bill? [1:19:06] Thank you. [1:19:06] Because when there are thousands of pages, they might have stuff in there about immigration reform mixed in with Second Amendment rights, mixed in with free speech online, mixed in with support for Israel. It's weird. They have thousands of pages. Well, you've seen how thick it is. And there were times, and I don't remember who said it, but there were times when the big, beautiful bill was passing or before it had passed that people had admittedly not even read it. How could that?

[1:19:36] I do read it. How could they? It's so big. And so there is a problem there, and that is above my pay grade, and I do not know how to fix that. That's a crazy problem. But I think part of the problem is that – [1:19:48] It takes. [1:19:49] It takes a pissed off mom. [1:19:52] Whose kid is sick? [1:19:54] to be like this is a fucking problem. This is a problem. It is a problem that in Portland, where I'm from, that [1:20:02] that OHSU is one of the top [1:20:04] hospitals in the country. OHSU is given so many grants by the Knight Foundation. It is a leading hospital. It is attached to it's a tier one hospital. It is attached to Doernbecher. Doernbecher is a tier two children's hospital. [1:20:20] It's in the same building. [1:20:21] That's crazy. That's crazy. It is crazy to me that a pediatric oncologist makes 50% less than an adult oncologist. [1:20:29] Just across the board, 50% less. It doesn't matter what the specialty is. They all make less money. That is a problem in this country that our children are not being cared for. And we're now in a position where... [1:20:42] We're not, there are no programs, and if there were, they're gone, that are... [1:20:46] showing doctors and students that are in medical school, hey, go into pediatrics. Hey, if you want to be an anesthesiologist, you want job security? Go into pediatrics. I know you're going to make 50% less, but go into pediatrics. We need you. There are not enough. It's a big problem. It's a big problem, the 50% less.

[1:21:09] Because a lot of these doctors – Now, that's an average as well, by the way. But, yeah. I mean, when they get out, they already have medical school debt. Mm-hmm. They're – you know, then there's liability coverage. It's very – [1:21:19] Very high. [1:21:21] Okay, what is the average amount of subjects included in bills passed in the US Congress? There's no single fixed number of topics per bill, but analysis of legislative practices shows strong trends depending on bill type and scope. The majority of bills passed by Congress include multiple subjects, and the number has grown over time as omnibus legislation has become the dominant approach. Give me some numbers though. [1:21:47] This is the biggest bill passed. Okay. This is so crazy. 5,000 pages? Consolidated Appropriations Act, which was in 2021. It has 5,593 pages. The bill combined all 12 regular appropriation bills for fiscal year 2021, COVID-19 relief, and numerous unrelated legislation provisions, including Copyright Alternative and Small Claims Enforcement Act, [1:22:17] Development Act, and a variety of other measures on tax, transportation, energy, and health. Then nobody's reading that. They're not reading. You think AOC read that? [1:22:27] You think George Santos read that? Nobody read that. You want to make it about people not reading things. I'm sure we can get into that. But, like, I think that... Well, George Santos is the crazy guy. Yes. That was just... Yeah, they just... Pardon? Are they getting him out of jail? Is he getting free? I don't know. I might have him on. That guy, he's a wild boy.

[1:22:47] I don't know. But these people that are like congresspeople that are making hundreds of millions of dollars [1:22:53] through insider trading. And we're just like, I don't know what to do. Okay, but here's the thing, though. Is that like... [1:22:58] We are... [1:23:00] things are not getting voted on. [1:23:02] Like that's the other thing is that so you take like the Give Kids a Chance Act and then you take these big bills that have so many pages. [1:23:08] there should be a system in place where things are voted on separately. And there may be. I mean, this is... Especially something that is important as pediatric medication. Absolutely. That just seems, it seems like a travesty to include that in a bunch of other stuff in a bill. Well, and, you know, the crazy thing. So our daughter's cancer, her treatments and her care afterwards. So she's still getting this thing called an MIBG scan, which is a nuclear radiation scan where they inject her body with stuff that is [1:23:37] so bad for you. But it's all to scan her body to make sure that her cancer hasn't metastasized. Like it's we need to know this kind of stuff. Right. There's there's no new technology. There are there are these are things that she's being treated with that have existed for years. [1:23:53] 30 years. We need new things. Our daughter should never have to get wheeled over to the adult side of a hospital to get an MRI because they don't have a machine on the children's side. Things like that should never be happening. This is the stuff that should be supported by our government and our tax dollars. Yeah, that's a great example of something that should be supported by tax dollars. I've always said that the two most important things for people to be, if you want

[1:24:23] helping people. It's education and health care. Those are number one and number two. But is there an argument that [1:24:30] uh, [1:24:31] Socialized medicine, I have friends that live in countries with socialized medicine, like England and Canada, and it's great in some ways. But it's also a nightmare because it takes a long time to get a surgery. A lot of the doctors might not be the best to get quite a few botched surgeries that my friends have had. And a lot of them have actually come to America to get surgery in America, especially UFC guys. Because they felt like the doctors were better because they're more incentivized. These doctors are paid better, and you're going to get those really hot shot. [1:25:01] is the guy who does all the ACL tears for the Lakers. Yeah. Like, these guys are... Yeah, so you can pay for that, for sure. But there's something to be said for... [1:25:10] the competition that drives innovation and makes people become the very best in the top of their field, but also – [1:25:18] The most important things are not that. The most important things are regular, ordinary health care, and some of that stuff can fucking break people. Like one bad fall when you don't have health insurance, and you're a couple hundred thousand dollars in debt now. So did you know that the number one cause of debt in our country is a medical diagnosis? Yeah, I did. It's terrifying. It's terrifying. So like that alone, I mean, if other countries have that, [1:25:46] And it does – it might not be perfect. Why can't we have that? And why can't we have that along with –

[1:25:54] specialists that are even better. Like if you are, if you are, you know, [1:25:59] The Lakers. Yeah. You know, they need a guy who's just a fucking wizard. Yeah. Pay people more for the very best guys. So you still have competition, but... [1:26:08] The idea that people just can go bankrupt if they get sick is like, are we not looking out for each other? Think about how much money we spend on other things. That's doable because other countries do it. It really makes me sad. [1:26:22] Every once in a while we would get a medical bill. We have great health insurance. The Screen Actors Guild has some of the best health insurance I've ever seen, mind you. In Oregon, where they're not used to seeing the Screen Actors Guild health insurance, doctors will sometimes be like, [1:26:38] cover this. I'm like I know. Actors, it's phenomenal. But so I'm [1:26:44] We have seen [1:26:46] so many people with sick children. [1:26:49] suffering financially, you don't think about it. It's not necessarily even the diagnosis that's causing [1:26:57] the bankruptcy. It's the time. [1:27:01] If your daughter needs a specialized cancer treatment and you've got to drive six hours each way every day or be put up at the Ronald McDonald house over by a hospital, you're not going to your work. You're not plowing your fields. You're not going to your nine to five. You're not because your priority is your kid. [1:27:22] that leads to bankruptcy. That's a really big problem. And so it's not even the insurance, it's the lack of time, it's the lack of resources that we give people when they are sick. It's really...

[1:27:34] Heartbreaking. We got bills sometimes. [1:27:37] that were like, [1:27:39] $70,000 and like these crazy numbers and and you know I would [1:27:45] take a picture and send it off to our insurance broker because we have a very, very blessed life. And I wasn't. [1:27:52] I mean, I was definitely shocked by it and a little concerned, but I was like, they'll handle it. They'll let us know. [1:27:58] Most people don't have that. [1:28:00] You know, they look at that and even though that was an error, we should have never gotten that. [1:28:05] It was still... [1:28:06] You know, our portion was still $4,000 or something like that. Why does it cost that much money? Like, that's the question. Like, what factors are involved in it costing that much money? Is it all above ground? Because I don't think it is. It definitely has been shown that it's not with some drugs, that they've hiked the price up of drugs because they know people have to buy it. They know it's necessary. You're going to pay. It is a very messed up system. It's crazy. It's a crazy system. It's got so many problems. [1:28:36] It's money. Whenever they can figure out how to make money with things. Yeah. So it's like, is there an argument for some sort of a socialization of that in this country? And people that want to say that we shouldn't have any socialism... [1:28:48] Listen, we have some. We do have some. Here's a big one. Fire department is a big one. We all agree the fire department is worth paying for with our tax dollars. We all pay, and the fire department goes where the fire is. If there's a fire in a poor community, if there's a fire in a rich community, that's how it works. We all agree with that because it's a very good part of a functional society. Well, and we don't want to be like, no, we don't need it. You have a fire in your health then. It's the same thing.

[1:29:18] centers. Yeah. Like this is, we've set up the socialism of our society is we've set up ways to handle calamities. We've let ways to set up fires, ways to set up floods and we pay for it and we make sure it's all there because we all need it. You want a social calamity? [1:29:36] No education, massive crime, all the different problems that plague us that we ignore, and [1:29:43] Some great ways to do that, to stop that, is free education and free health care. You cut back on most of the problems that people run into. I agree, because one of the biggest problems in our country is mental health. It's a huge problem, and a lot of people go untreated because they don't have health care. That's what you're seeing in these tents. [1:30:02] Yeah. You've seen a lot of, you've seen a lot of mental illness, a lot. A giant portion of it. And that was all during the Reagan administration. The Reagan administration, they changed how they, um, like what, what they did with mentally ill people. And they shut down a lot of these institutions and they just let people become homeless. We were just having this conversation the other day because it's inhumane to, to, uh, to determine how a person should live their life and where they should live their life. And, um, [1:30:30] Yeah, it's a very, very complicated gray issue for sure. [1:30:34] You see it in Portland, where I live. It is a very complicated issue because there is not one solution. It needs to be a multi-pronged solution with a lot of hands on deck. Yeah. [1:30:47] Yeah. I mean, Portland, it's gotten it was on. I think another thing that Portland did that was, I think, directionally correct.

[1:30:55] which was they decriminalized everything. They said, look, we're not going to criminalize you for doing cocaine or having mushrooms. We're not going to treat that like your personal use is a crime of anything. But unfortunately, when they did that, people moved there to do drugs. Well, unfortunately, when they did that, they didn't put the services in place ahead of time to be prepared for it. Well, you would need a lot of services. You need like real counseling and real health care. And you really should have an Ibogaine center. [1:31:25] that is dealing with addiction, which is one of the primary factors of these people being homeless. Well, yeah, I mean, it's a chicken egg thing, right? Because like what comes, what comes first, the addiction or the, you know, the homelessness. They should have set up Ibogaine centers. If you've got a decriminalized society, set up Ibogaine centers in Oregon. I mean, it'd be the perfect place for you. You'd be able to help so many people because so many of those [1:31:55] And whether it's an opioid or crystal meth or whatever the thing that is that has captured their life and let them find out who they are as a human, you could probably save a bunch of those folks. And that can be done. I do believe that a lot of those people can be saved. I think that it's really – [1:32:15] It's really sad. [1:32:16] it's how invisible people are. Yeah. Yeah. [1:32:20] It's really sad. It's really sad. That's someone's baby and you have babies. You know what it's like. I know and that's what I can't help but think. Think about how much you love your babies and you walk by that with someone's baby that is now on the street, you know, covered in their own feces. I know. It's horrible. It's horrible and it's horrible. It's a it's just a stain on us as a community that we we don't do anything about it. And the answer is not just lock them up. I think they're doing something crazy out here where they're bringing in the National Guard. They're sweeping up all the encampments and like.

[1:32:48] That doesn't fix it. You're just penalizing people for being fucked. Yeah. At a certain point in time, though, it's like – you ever watch that show Hoarders? [1:32:58] Yes. At a certain point in time, you've got to burn the house down. All right? This one lady was keeping bags of poop. I have ten of these. She had bottles and bags of poop all in her house. And they're like, we're going to have to destroy this house. This is insane. It's like that is almost where places like Skid Row are. Like that it's so crazy that you've let it get this bad for so long. To even clean it up, it's almost like you have to start from scratch. So it's almost like you'd have to take those people. [1:33:28] treatment places and take those people and convince them that there's a way to a life, that you don't want to live like this forever. There's a way to a life and we're going to try to help you. And have these places that are set up where they have counselors and food, they clean people up, they give them their appropriate mental health medication if they need it, they talk to them, they give them activities. [1:33:51] That's not financially prohibitively expensive. They spent $24 billion in California trying to stop the homeless crisis or help it. They didn't do anything. It got bigger. It got way bigger. And they spent $24 billion. Well, because they're coming over from Texas, being kicked out of Texas. The homeless. They're like, go west, young men. Go west. I don't think they have that kind of ambition. No, I think it's a big problem. But I also know that like –

[1:34:18] It is not. [1:34:20] It's a multi-pronged problem, like I said. You know, a lot of people don't want to go into the shelters because they have an animal. [1:34:25] or they have a lot of stuff and there's limits on how many bags you can bring in, things like that. So it's, you know, you're not allowed to have drugs on you. Things that are prohibitive to persuade people to go in to places that have help. Right. So I don't know. It's... [1:34:44] It's going to take somebody a lot more creative than me and a lot of money and a lot of open-minded people to figure out what to do because it's a big problem. And it's a big problem everywhere, every major city. Every major city. It doesn't matter if it's blue or red. It doesn't matter. It's a big problem. The thing is it's fairly recent. That's what's disturbing because I think that it's a symptom of a society that's lost its way. [1:35:08] Because it's fairly recent. [1:35:09] There wasn't a time when I was a boy where you had that many homeless people. You occasionally had... [1:35:14] a homeless person that you'd run into in like Boston where I lived or New York City. You'd occasionally run into homeless people, but there was no encampments. There was no, this is a completely new thing as far as I know. There was during the great depression though, but that was just like horror, horrific poverty where they had shanty. This episode is brought to you by Manscaped. Wondering what to get your dad on father's day? [1:35:40] The Beard and Dome Bundle from Manscaped is a really solid option. I've been using their Dome Shaver for a while now, and the thing I like about it is how easy it makes everything. You don't have to think about it. It just glides over your head, gets everything clean, no weird patches, no going over the same spot ten times. Honestly, it's so much better than anything.

[1:36:00] any of the other brands I've tried. And then there's the Beard Hedger. It's got this zoom wheel with 20 different length settings that's built right in. So if you want to get your dad something he'll actually use, the Beard and Dome bundle for Manscaped is an easy pick. Get 15% off plus free shipping with the code ROGAN15 at manscaped.com. That's 15% off plus free shipping with code ROGAN15 at manscaped.com. [1:36:30] Lots of places can accidentally expose you to identity theft. Doctors' offices, online retailers, insurance companies, the list goes on. Thankfully, LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more than anyone could do on their own. LifeLock keeps an eye on your personal information, credit applications, finances, and more. [1:37:00] or changes to your financial accounts, they'll alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Even better, alerts are automatically activated the moment you become a LifeLock member. No extra work on your part. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Don't wait. Join LifeLock now. Visit LifeLock.com slash J-R-E and save up to 30% your first year.

[1:37:30] for 30% off terms apply. Towns where whole families were living in these set-up shanty towns because they couldn't afford to be in a house. I don't know. Do you think it's a loss of... [1:37:40] In some regard, it's a loss of community and it's a loss of empathy and caring for people. Sure. I know that in the town that I grew up, when somebody was down on their luck, everybody would come together and help that person. Yeah. It doesn't really happen anymore. We're all so consumed with our own lives and what's happening to us, I think. Yeah, I think it's not a coincidence that it's happening in the places that have the most people, too. Of course. [1:38:10] or a higher number of people with mental illnesses. But you're also going to have this thing that happens when you have too many people that live in a place where you don't value each other. [1:38:19] Like – [1:38:19] I live in a neighborhood where there's a guy that lives in my neighborhood, this old fella. [1:38:24] And he's always working on his garden. And every time I drive by, he waves. [1:38:28] I look forward. Yeah. I look forward. To the wave. To the wave. I wave that dude. What's up? [1:38:34] It's like he's a friendly guy. Everybody drives by his house, he waves at. And I look forward to waving at that guy. [1:38:40] And that doesn't happen in New York City. In New York City, you wave at a guy every day. He's like, what the fuck are you waving at, bitch? Like, they want to fight you. Like, you got a problem with me? Why are you looking at me every day? [1:38:51] Because there's too many people. There's fucking millions of people all stacked on top of each other. It's not how we're designed to live. We're designed to live in some sort of peace and harmony with nature, not like a new nature. So this new nature of concrete and electricity is just weird for us.

[1:39:10] And then when you see someone who's down, you just think, that's not me. I'm going to keep on moving. Whereas if you live in a small town and that was a member of your community, that's Earl. Like, oh, my God, Earl's passed out in front of a store. Earl, what's going on, man? Yeah. Yeah. Like, you love Earl. Pick him up. Earl's a faceless, nameless person in Manhattan. He's one of many. [1:39:34] And no one cares. They just walk right by you on the way to the play. Well, everybody is... [1:39:39] Everybody's hustling. You know? Like, it's a big thing. Yeah. We've got... [1:39:45] Too little time in the day, a lot to accomplish. Everybody's just, how do I get mine? How do I take care of my family? How do I protect this? How do I do that? How do I, I don't have time to look at Earl. Exactly. You know, and, and. [1:39:56] But also, even if you did help Earl, Earl might be an idiot. It might be like one of them things, you help Earl, and then two days later, he's smoking crack again. Earl! [1:40:05] Oh, Earl. Earl might just be, that just might be Earl. There's certain people you can't save, and there's always going to be people like that. But there's a lot of those folks that genuinely are just down on their luck, and maybe they had an abusive childhood, and maybe things went wrong with them at multiple points. Maybe they had an injury, and they got OxyContin prescribed to them, and then all of a sudden they can't get off. That happens all the time. I know people that that happened to.

[1:40:35] our representatives. [1:40:36] to actually [1:40:38] care about people enough to figure out what the right solution is. I would like to talk to the people that spent the $24 billion. [1:40:46] in California and go, what did you guys do? Like, how come you didn't do better? It's like, there's more. There's more than when it started. They increased their number. Well, to me, what that says is that there are – [1:41:01] There are more and more people falling through the cracks every single day then. An enormous number in Los Angeles. Los Angeles alone is a strange place in some neighborhoods where you're just driving through. You're just seeing like, oh, this is like if I was looking at a piece of fruit and a piece of fruit had like this bruised area. And I was like, oh, what happened to this? Somebody dropped. Like it's like a damaged part of your society. [1:41:31] Like a bruise just sitting there. They're a part of it, but they're a sad part of it. And that part is getting bigger. The bruise is bigger. It's weird. Well, then, yeah. I mean, we left Los Angeles two years ago. [1:41:46] can't even speak, two years ago. And [1:41:49] Yeah. [1:41:50] I love LA. [1:41:51] I love LA. I lived there for 25 years. It's a great city. The great city. Great people. Awesome. A lot of amazing human beings. Yeah. [1:41:59] Some of my best friends I met in LA. And it's like many other cities.

[1:42:05] it has a problem. [1:42:08] The solution is there. It just – it's going to require a lot of work, and I don't know what that is, sadly. Yeah, I don't know what that is, but I know that people don't course correct, and that's what's screwy. What's screwy is just let this thing get bigger. You've got to dump a lot of resources into removing these tent communities, setting these people up in some sort of a community center, some sort of a rehabilitation center. Make an effort. [1:42:35] There's no way you can allow this because it's just the cost that that's happening just to the neighborhood. Like if you live right next door to a tent city and you're trying to sell your house, like good luck. You're not selling your house. Yeah. That's going to fuck up everything. And it's going to fuck it up for them too. It's going to cost everybody money. You'd be better off spending that money trying to help those people. And I guarantee you at least some of them are going to pop through on the other side, figure it out, become successful and be forever eternally grateful. [1:43:05] they'll be able to help more people do the same. There's always a few of those people that come out of those kind of treatment centers that can help other people do it. I would be really curious to see, like, statistically... [1:43:15] what the common denominator [1:43:18] of the majority of the homeless people in the US. [1:43:23] what it was. Like what if there's studies where they actually went around and- It's gotta be mostly drugs, right? [1:43:31] No, I don't know, though. I don't know. And granted, I do not know enough about this to be speaking about it. I don't know, but I just jump right to a first conclusion. But you talk to you do talk to some people.

[1:43:42] that find themselves homeless, [1:43:44] And I've had this conversation with somebody who found themselves homeless and started doing drugs because... [1:43:50] Try spending the night out on the street. Right. [1:43:54] You're not comfortable. It's it's depending on your circumstances, but, you know, where you are, potentially what your gender is like, you know, what your own mental health is like. Like it could be self-respect. Terrifying point in time. You're sleeping literally outside or you have high self-respect, but you had a really shitty fucking day. [1:44:15] Or you're, you know, someone you were caring for had cancer and you lost your house because they passed and you didn't go to work for a year and a half. Like, for whatever reason, you. [1:44:25] you then start using drugs because it helps numb [1:44:29] Mm-hmm. [1:44:30] Right. So I don't know. I think you're right there that a lot of people who do do drugs find themselves on the street. But I also think that a lot of people who are on the street for other reasons find their way to drugs. And so it's it is just a it's a really. [1:44:45] big problem with a lot of [1:44:47] moving parts and and I think first and foremost we have to [1:44:52] trying to find our way to empathy and figure out how to help people. Yeah, it's very well said. What you said, I completely agree with. And I think it can be done. I think it could be done with that $24 billion. I just think that there's a lot of incentive. There's a lot of wasted money in this country, let's be honest. It is. It's also, this is a thing, unfortunately, that they campaign with.

[1:45:16] You know, when when there's certain issues that I think politicians genuinely don't want resolved because they can campaign on solving those problems. [1:45:27] I really do think that. [1:45:29] I talked to Rep Luna and she actually said that. And I was like, so you really think they do that? She's like, absolutely. [1:45:35] That is so dark that they would not want solutions from both sides. Yeah. Because they would rather keep the argument in place. So they go, if it's up to me, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to stop gay marriage. And then it becomes a thing that they would like to repeal gay marriage just so they have the ability to fight to bring back gay marriage. Like, that's how twisted some of these people are. It wouldn't surprise me. I'm not surprised. I think that's probably what happened with Roe v. Wade. [1:46:05] That's probably part of it. I mean, government is a business. We have to acknowledge that. It's a crazy business. Everybody gets paid. There's so much money in that business. And they really do like having problems to campaign against. They openly talk about it. Like, we're going to get them on this one. Like, they like that problem. Keep that problem going. You know what, though? You know what we should do? We should give them problems that, like, legitimately, like, big problems that matter, like saving children. Well, that would be great. And, like, education and things like that. [1:46:35] People shouldn't have to move house because they're trying to chase a public school that's better. Like the existing public school should be great. And we should have tried to invest in that a long ass time ago. Well, and we should pay our fucking teachers. How about that? Yeah, a lot more. My mom was a teacher for 35 years. She had a master's degree and she made something like $35,000 a year.

[1:46:57] I know, it's crazy. [1:46:58] You have to love what you do and only want to do it because you love it. Whereas there's so many jobs that pay so much more. But why is it in our country that anything to do with children gets underpaid? I don't know. When they're the future. Well, if you wanted to put a tinfoil hat on, I'm trying to keep people down, trying to [1:47:16] hold down society so i can control it i just want to fuck up the education system put as little money into it as possible to guarantee chaos guarantee lawlessness in some segments of society that way we can always have reasons to bring the military onto the streets and reasons to arrest people and reasons to enact new laws and reasons to put people on digital id like if you wanted to get really cynical you would say well they didn't solve it because they don't want to solve it because they want the south side of chicago to still look like afghanistan the height of the war [1:47:46] on the streets because that way they keep people scared and that way they campaign against these various sides. If you really wanted to get dark, you would look at it that way. I think what happens is more than anything is that it's like really difficult to get anything done. I think that's the truth. I think that is the truth. And it's like politically, it's not your best weapon. Like your best weapon are what are the big cultural issues? You know, if it is immigration [1:48:16] to close the border and want to stop these immigrants coming through, and if you're on the other side, we want compassion and we want health care for all, then those are the things that you start... [1:48:27] you start throwing around those the things are gonna get your votes right I say yeah I'm gonna campaign to make sure that we have health care for infants because right now pediatricians and physicians don't get paid as much this is what I'm campaigning on people like

[1:48:40] Okay, what about global warming? What about climate? But then – so you have someone that does that. They run on that and wanting to get equal pay for pediatricians and higher pay for teachers. And, like, let's really run on, you know, what's better for our children. And they get elected and then they go to work on Monday morning and everyone's like – [1:49:00] You can't do that. I mean, I know you got elected on it, so good luck. You're going to spend the next two years of your life trying to keep your constituents happy, saying that you're doing it. And we're going to block you at every turn. But we're going to block you at every turn. Yeah. Every turn. It should have been done that way a long-ass time ago. That's the problem. It's like I don't understand how anybody who loves their kids would not want their kids to be taught by the best people possible. So unless you're in abject poverty where you can't even think about where your taxes go – [1:49:30] If you have children, you should be thinking like, boy... [1:49:33] I hope they get the best people to teach my kids. Instead, we get people that are willing to take a job that pays so little for [1:49:41] That like almost anybody with a bachelor degree can get a better job somewhere else financially. You may get paid more as a waiter than most teachers get. Oh, please. You'd get more money as a dog walker. [1:49:54] Probably. You would. A girlfriend of mine. You have a good group of dogs. A girlfriend of mine was a lawyer, a trial lawyer, new trial lawyer, but, you know, making good money.

[1:50:11] stress-induced pancreatic shutdown. So her body as an adult [1:50:16] had type 1 diabetes, which is like crazy. And it was all due to stress. So they told her, you know, you're going to have diabetes now. It's not like type 2, like this is it, but you still need to reduce your stress. And so she stopped being a lawyer. Her husband was like, okay, great. Like, this is it. We got to reduce stress. So she quit her job. And [1:50:35] stayed home and started doing yoga and was like, okay, I think I'm, I'm ready to, [1:50:40] try and contribute a little bit again and figure something out. And maybe I'll go walk dogs because, you know, I like dogs. Long walks will be stress reducing. I can make a little extra money. Why not do that? By the time she started watching our dogs, like at her home overnight for like a month while I was on location, she was making more money as a dog sitter slash dog walker than she ever did as a lawyer. [1:51:06] But she sounds like an exceptional dog walker. Crazy. [1:51:10] the dog walking business. I mean, I don't, maybe I would get like a picture every day, but it's very valuable. If you love your dogs, if someone's like, you can really trust to take care of your dogs, but those are the jobs, right? Talking about jobs and like children, like those are the jobs. Like, you know, if I was, I keep telling my nephew like every day, he's like, I don't know what to do with my life. And I'm like, be a plumber. [1:51:30] like go on your own business find a job where we're always going to need you yeah you know open a dog walking service start there like do do something do something but more importantly what do you want to do what do you it's so hard for people to figure out because because you're judging what you want to do based on what you see everyone around you do and and you know

[1:51:53] I was blessed at a very young age to wake up in the morning and know what I wanted to do. [1:51:59] Yeah, it's very, very rare. Well, that's a gift. That's a gift the universe gave you. Because if you're just like, I don't know where to start. I don't know what to do. Yeah. I think with people like that, generally, they've never tried. This is what I think is one of the things that's very important for kids. Find a thing. [1:52:17] Whatever that thing is, whether your thing is painting, whether your thing is music, whether your thing is sports, just find a thing that's hard to do and work on getting better at that thing. And that will teach you so much about what life is. [1:52:47] endurance if you want to be a runner are you willing to get up every morning and actually do the work like things that test you they teach you the process of enjoying things and getting better at things yeah when people don't go through that when they're young it's a real problem trying to find a thing and commit to it yeah you almost have to stumble upon it and get lucky my parents though like when you know i didn't i wasn't raised by anybody in the arts my dad's a builder my mom [1:53:17] parents not [1:53:18] One day of my life told me I couldn't do something. [1:53:21] Like every single day they were like, go for it. Why not?

[1:53:25] Like, sure. You know, I do believe my dad always said, like, you know, second place is just the first loser. [1:53:33] So I did have a dad like that. But like he said it sort of like, you know, he was building competition. Like he also knew that I was the child that he could say that to and it would motivate me. He didn't say that to my brother, who were very two different, you know, children. Yeah, you got to figure that out. But my parents told me I could do things, you know, and then at a very young age, this is where representation matters at a very young age. [1:53:54] I, in high school, was dating a hockey player. [1:53:57] who was my age, was playing for the WHL team in Portland and got drafted. So when I was 17 years old, I saw an 18-year-old get drafted in the NHL. And in my mind, somebody my age did something really hard that required a lot of work, but he made it. And him making it and seeing that happen in a counterpart of mine gave me the courage to go – [1:54:20] I'm moving to California. Whoa. You did it. I can do it. Whoa. So you have to have both. You have to have encouraging parents and you have to have the means to be able to pursue the things that you want to pursue. But you also have to have representation and see other people around you succeed that are your age or that you identify with or that look like you. That's important, too. That's huge. Yeah. Inspiration is so important. So important. It starts with teachers, too, right? Sure. Kids need one good teacher.

[1:54:50] grade and he said something that I think about all the time. [1:54:53] He, I've never thought about this before. He said, I want you to really hurt your head. I want you to look up at the sky and think about how far forever is. [1:55:04] Think about the idea of infinity. [1:55:06] Just really think about it. Just only look at the stars at night and think about infinity. [1:55:12] Because you can't. You can't even wrap your head around it. Yeah. He was an intense dude. Yeah. [1:55:17] He was a Vietnam vet. It was like a little shaken up and you can kind of tell. [1:55:22] But he really loved science. He really loved science. Yeah. [1:55:26] And he was... [1:55:29] Who's just... [1:55:30] Trying to get us to understand how fucking crazy the world is. [1:55:35] Like, I really want you to think about this. Like, you're on a planet in space. And I never thought about it before that. I was like, oh, the stars, there's the moon. I never really thought about forever. The idea of, like, even being able to imagine where is my mind going when it's imagining infinite space. [1:55:54] Yeah. [1:55:55] It's crazy how small we are. [1:55:58] Yeah. [1:55:59] Yeah. [1:56:00] And we're probably we were just going over this the other day. We're probably the whole thing's probably fractal. There's this photograph. It's a crazy photograph of a human brain cell. [1:56:12] next to a map of the universe. [1:56:15] And they look like the same thing. [1:56:18] It's really weird. So we're all like living in Orion's belt around a cat's neck in Men in Black? My joke was that there's a guy, that's his eye, right? And he's depressed and he's going to blow his brains out. And that's the Big Bang. We're part of, look at this.

[1:56:36] So on the left is brain cell. On the right is the universe. Yeah. [1:56:41] Wow. It's kind of nuts. I mean, it's kind of like dead on. It looks exactly like the same thing. It really does. [1:56:49] I mean – They're both so beautiful. It's like the structure of it is amazing. But why wouldn't we believe? If we believe in subatomic particles, okay, we believe there are things that exist in the subatomic world that are behaving like magic. Like they're moving and not moving at the same time. They appear and disappear. We don't know where they're going. [1:57:19] respond to each other why wouldn't we think that we are subatomic in another being that's true infinity true infinity is not just the size of the universe itself being infinite but of literally your universe is a small part of another being that's in another universe [1:57:41] I mean... [1:57:44] Anything's possible, right? The whole thing is so weird. We know so little about the universe. It's so weird. [1:57:50] Yeah. It's so weird. We have no idea. We're literally flying through space and we're, you know, arguing over who's a Nazi. And the whole thing is just very bizarre. It's very bizarre. It is – [1:58:04] pretty amazing when you look at how small we are. We've started reading our daughters interested in space, and so we've started looking at books and talking about the Milky Way and what the universe is and what Earth is and where we live.

[1:58:20] It's pretty amazing when you realize how fragile the whole thing is. [1:58:25] Because we're so tiny. We're so tiny. We're so tiny. Yeah. Yeah. [1:58:31] Yeah. Yeah. [1:58:31] And our galaxy is so tiny. That's what's nuts. Yeah. The galaxy is immense. Hundreds of billions of stars. Tiny, little tiny thing. Little tiny cute little galaxy. Little tiny little. Little sweetie little galaxy. Oh, look at that little dot right there. Have you been paying attention to this object that's hurtling towards Earth? [1:58:49] It's called A30. They're calling it A31. I try to avoid things that are going to give me nightmares. Are we going to send? Are we going to terrestrial perhaps? Is it really? We're going to meet the aliens finally. There's something weird about it. We were just going over the other day. There was an article that was stating that. [1:59:06] Whatever they use to detect like what is around this, like what they can detect the composition, whether it's like mostly water, vapor, mostly iron. This thing is giving off the indications that is an alloy. [1:59:24] that only exists on Earth through industrial alloy-making processes. Okay. That it's not a natural metal. Okay. And that's what they're getting is the signal that this thing – [1:59:37] that is hurling through space, this massive object that's moving, by the way, from the same direction in space where the wow signal came. [1:59:47] I don't know what that is. The wow signal is a – they believe –

[1:59:51] intelligently generated signal that they picked up. I think it was in the 70s. [1:59:57] Was it in the 70s? [1:59:59] I should know this. I'm going to lose my nerd code. No, it's okay. It's a weird one. It's a little obscure. So I don't know what the exact technique they were using to monitor radio waves in space, but they got a signal. So here it is. The Wow Signal is a powerful 72-second narrow-band radio signal detected on August 15, 1977 by the Big Ear Radio Telescope at Ohio State University, which initially suggested an extraterrestrial origin. [2:00:27] A name for the wow written in printout by the astronomer Jerry Amen. Amen. Amen. The signal had characteristics expected from a technological source, but follow up efforts have failed to detect it again. [2:00:41] The leading hypothesis is that a natural astrophysical event, such as a flare from a magnetar, briefly illuminated a cold hydrogen cloud, causing it to emit radio signal similar to a laser or... [2:00:54] It's a laser. And then this object is coming from that. From that area. Yeah, look at that. [2:01:02] They sent you a signal. And then now this thing is coming through there. So if you think, like, how fast this thing is going, if it came from, you know, the other side of the galaxy, it's probably exactly how long it would take to get here. So... [2:01:14] It's coming directly for Earth? No, it's coming near Earth. Right. So we're not worried it's going to hit us. No, I don't believe we're worried. Well, I'm going to find out tomorrow. Avi Loeb, an astronomer from Harvard, is coming on. Okay, amazing. And he's going to enlighten us as to what this thing is all about. Yeah.

[2:01:29] It's weird. As it gets closer, it's weirder and weirder. They've never seen anything like this thing before. But is it possible, then, that another planet out in... [2:01:39] the you like, [2:01:42] like... [2:01:43] is made up of, has alloy properties and it could have [2:01:48] chipped off and it's now hurtling through space? Yeah. You would have to ask like a metallurgist that question. That's a good question. We just know the only way it exists on earth is through this industrial process. If it is that stuff. Yeah. Why do they think it's that stuff? Do you remember that article? [2:02:03] We looked it up a couple of days ago. [2:02:06] Look, it's so fun to think it's a spaceship. Of course it is. So fun to think the Cylons are coming. Because they might be. Yeah, they might be. Do you think they're coming to save us? I think they would have already stepped in if they were going to do that. [2:02:18] They would have stepped in. Yeah, sure. There's been, you know, they were stepped in right after World War II. They'd be like, hey, hey, hey, with the fucking nukes. Or do you think they're just up there going, you're going to have to save yourself, kids? Perhaps. Maybe. Perhaps it's a process that all intelligent emerging life goes through. [2:02:36] and then you know you have to kind of let it go through the process like you have to let your kids fall down [2:02:41] Um... [2:02:42] In contrast to all-node comets, including the interstellar comet 21 Borisov, the observed spectrum of the gas plume around 31 Atlas shows prominent nickel emission, but no evidence for iron. Other than 31 Atlas, this anomaly was only known to exist in industrially produced nickel alloys through the carbonyl chemical pathway, which refines nickel through the formation and decomposition of nickel tetracarbonyl.

[2:03:10] Tetracarbonyl. The authors of the new paper postulate that this carbonyl process is realized naturally near the nucleus of 31 atlas. They argue that this in situ formation of this thing predicts that nickel should be strongly concentrated near the nucleus. [2:03:29] So it's like the whole thing is some very weird metal right point and I [2:03:35] It's also – it's weird the way it's moving. What are they saying about the way it's moving? There's something about – Self-correcting or something. I think they thought that – [2:03:44] Had some emission. I don't know. Looked like a jet, but I don't think so. It seemed. No, it did seem like they were saying that it's very far away. It's very far away. So maybe it's the silence coming back. They're like, we have to save our parents. [2:03:59] You've seen they've got a telescope that actually took video of it? That's what amazes me, is that we have telescopes that can see that far. I can send it to you, Jamie. [2:04:07] This guy has it on his Twitter page. But it's like it's very low resolution, obviously, because it's fucking millions of miles away. But whatever it is, is really weird. It's really weird. You know, people ask me all the time if I believe in aliens, I think, just because of what I do for a living and the genre that I'm in and – [2:04:27] I couldn't wait to talk to you about aliens. What I always say, you're going to be vastly disappointed that I know so little about them, but what I always say is, I think it's a line from a movie. [2:04:35] Um... [2:04:37] where it would be an awful waste of space. [2:04:39] Thank you. [2:04:40] If it was just us. Yeah, that is a lot in a movie. I don't remember what movie it was. It's from the movie with Jodie Foster. Contact. Contact. Oh. When her dad says to her that it would be an awful waste of space.

[2:04:51] Yeah. Beautiful movie. [2:04:53] It's a great movie. Carl Sagan wrote that book. [2:04:56] That's it. [2:04:57] So this is the thing. [2:05:00] Like, what is that? [2:05:01] What the fuck is this? [2:05:06] Like, obviously low resolution, obviously moving through space, but also what the hell is that? Well, it seems to be moving pretty quickly, yeah? Yeah. It looks like a spaceship. I mean, it also looks like a dust bunny. I was showing my friend Matt last night. We were having dinner, and I was showing him videos of praying mantises killing hummingbirds because he didn't believe it. Stop. He's like, no way. Well, they're big. Praying mantises can be quite big, right? Not in comparison to hummingbirds. It's crazy how strong they are. [2:05:34] Stop. They literally kill hummingbirds? They snatch hummingbirds right off feeders. So they sit by the hummingbird feeder motionless, and the hummingbird comes in to take a drink and just snatches them. What do they do with them? Eat them. Stop. [2:05:47] crazy praying mantises are makes you really sad ruthless i have well they eat their own young right [2:05:54] They probably do. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know if they do that. But I know that they put a praying mantis in a box, and then they'll drop a roach in, and the praying mantis just snatches it up and just starts eating the roach a lot. Yeah, but that doesn't make me feel bad. But it does it to this bird. That makes me feel bad. But the thing is, like... [2:06:13] Why couldn't that be an intelligent life form from another planet? [2:06:16] Like, and then come here on 31 Atlas and land. I mean, that is a possibility. Well, that's the thing, right, is that we spend so much time, or I guess in our imagination, like, we've been conditioned to think that, you know, intelligent life looks like something from these movies. So we all think intelligent life is...

[2:06:36] you know, [2:06:36] these guys with big heads or they look like us or, you know, whatever we think. But they absolutely could literally be a flea. It could be a six foot tall mantis. It could be. Yeah. Yeah. [2:06:46] Then we'd be in real trouble. Real trouble. [2:06:51] Show her one of those praying mantises getting a hummingbird. This is going to make me really sad, you guys. It makes me sad, too. I love hummingbirds. Yes. Have you ever wanted to wear one of those hats with the hummingbird feeders on it? No. Do people do that? That's so crazy. They'll put the little things and they can just stay really so... They're a beautiful little bird. They're gorgeous. A weird little bird, too, in the way they're able to change direction and move. It's amazing. [2:07:16] Our house where we live now, they stop all the time. So, like, they'll sit on the branches and stuff, which is really rare to see. So, this is – praying mantises are so nasty. But look at it. It kind of knows it's there. [2:07:29] Well, that one... [2:07:30] Oh, my God, he grabbed us by his beak. Oh, yeah, reached out and just snagged them. The thing is, they're so strong for their size. I mean, that is literally like a person trying to take out a cow. Go down. There was one... [2:07:42] that one, with the [2:07:44] praying mantis in the scorpion oh praying man is gonna kill that scorpion that scorpion doesn't have a fucking chance [2:07:51] I don't know. That's what I'm guessing. [2:07:53] Yeah, look, he's already on top of him. [2:07:55] Yeah, he just mounted them. But then look, he's avoiding the... [2:07:59] Yeah, he's going to figure it out. He's also avoiding the stinger. Like, what is happening? What is happening? They're probably both trying to figure out why they're in there together.

[2:08:06] Oh, my God. [2:08:08] This is the shit of nightmares for me. Praying mantises are not. They're monsters. See if you can find videos of praying mantises eating roaches. There's like a whole mantis page on Instagram where they put like a different bug in there with praying mantises. How do we know it's not AI created, though, guys? Because this has been around for years. Yeah. Yeah. Praying mantises. Oh, look. They fuck up giant lizards. They kill lizards. It's like the lizard tried to eat him at the beginning of it. Oh, my God. [2:08:36] The actual video, the lizard tried to eat him. He's like, not today, bitch. I'll be eating you. Oh, my God. That poor lizard thought he was going to eat the praying mantis, and the praying mantis is eating him. [2:08:46] Like we are so lucky that they're little. [2:08:50] We're so lucky. We are so lucky. I hate. Because if they were big and smart. No, and then there's a bird. I don't want to see the bird die. Is it killing that bird? Oh, my God. The one I found, which I hadn't seen before, it's hanging upside down from a flower eating right here. Oh, my God. It's like, it's a big bird, too. That is wild. My God. They are just monsters. [2:09:11] I mean, that's like Alien from the movie Alien. That's what it's like. [2:09:15] It's just little. My entire mind has been blown. [2:09:19] Right? Look at that. That's what a praying mantis can do. Hang upside down while it's eating a bird. And literally hanging onto the petals of a flower. Like it's nothing. Upside down. And with no strain at all. None whatsoever. It's carrying a fucking bird that's like five times bigger than its body. Like the size of a barn swallow. It's crazy. Oh, my God. The crazy thing is these stupid lizards that think they're going to eat them.

[2:09:44] Oh, my God. I mean, it is such a bizarre creature. I don't want to see any of that. Look at that one. That poor little beauty. Oh, they do it all the time. They get hummingbirds. [2:09:54] So he's just a lot of these have no action, though, too. I've seen. Oh, my God. Trying to capture stuff. But these go back. [2:10:00] as long as YouTube does. Some of those are 15-year-old videos. [2:10:03] Those are the ones I would try. But they get them so quickly. Why do they stop moving so quickly? They're so fast. Because they're so strong too. [2:10:11] That one looks fake. I mean, now it's created within four weeks. I start going, all right. Oh, that looks like AI. Oh, yeah. That's AI. But the other ones are – those cell phone ones are real. [2:10:20] They're just unbelievably strong. That's crazy. I had no idea. [2:10:24] And if there's like a spaceship filled with those fuckers, they're all smart. They're way smarter than us. We're done. I think I saw a three-year-old boy getting ready to take on a praying mantis, too. I think he's going to lose in one of those videos. So future generations are not looking good right now. Yeah. If you walk up to a mantis, they'll be like, what? Stand up. They will on their hind legs. They'll fight. We're just lucky they're little. [2:10:46] Right? It's terrifying. It's absolutely. I'm going to go home and tell my husband all about this. Not my daughter. [2:10:54] 31 Atlas. If it's filled with reptilians, then we've got problems. What's going on? Oh my god, I cannot laugh at children. Oh no. [2:11:01] see i told you there was one oh jesus oh god he's just he's like you he tried to eat the baby he did he tried to eat the baby [2:11:10] That's how gangster pregnant mantises are. Oh, my God. It went after that baby. He was like, fuck you. I will eat your entire body. The thing that's crazy is we don't think of them as being vicious. No, I look at them and think that they're super cool. I would have been that three-year-old kid if I'd ever seen one in our yard. I would have been like, hey, honey. A regular green mantis. There are some wild mantises out there. Oh, yeah. There's more? Look at that one. Kung fu mantis. Wow. Look at that one.

[2:11:40] Those are beautiful. What is that one called? Kung Fu mantis? Kung Fu, yeah. What a beautiful looking insect. Just imagine a planet where that's the size of a horse. [2:11:51] No, we're fucked. If that's what's on this... [2:11:54] this copper thing that's coming toward Earth. We just got super lucky that the insect world is small. It's true. Somehow or another it worked out that way, where the insect world is small. Because if the insect world was as big as the mammal world, it would be a wash. It would be over. Like if they were the size of elephants? Well, if they were the size of dogs, they'd kill us all. That's true. Look at that fucking, that one praying mantis can do. Oh, look at that one. Perfect. Looks like a flower. [2:12:20] That's a praying man. What is that thing? Yeah, that's the one we were just looking at, this little guy. Yeah. And that's a bigger one. [2:12:27] Whoa. That's a big giant mantis. Holy shit. [2:12:30] That's crazy. I don't know. We have to listen to the video to hear what kind it is. [2:12:34] What is it going to do? Oh, it's head's the white part in the front. Yeah, that thing. That looks like a... His arms folded up. Whoa. Wait, where's his arms folded up? Oh, his arms are folded right in front. Oh, my goodness. Got him. Oh, my goodness. Stop. Oh, my God, he just bit his head off. [2:12:50] Whoa. Whoa. Maybe they just made it. Who knows? [2:12:53] Jeez. [2:12:55] That's what the females do after mating. They do. They just eat them. [2:12:58] Yeah, they fuck up the men. [2:13:00] Ah... [2:13:01] Yeah, but that's... [2:13:02] That's how you stay small. Nature's like, you're too fucking gangster. We have to keep you little. We have to keep you. It's like chihuahuas. And honey badgers. And honey badger, don't give a shit. Imagine if a honey badger was the size of a wolf. We'd have a real problem.

[2:13:15] They have to make them little so that they're so gangster. They just, they never could take over the whole forest. These fucking honey badgers just like. I can imagine if like a honey badger was the size of a horse. And they would just take over an entire swath of land. [2:13:30] There probably were things like that. There probably were back in the day. And now we have chickens left. Do you have to keep up on a certain amount of sci-fi because of playing Starbuck? Do you feel like an obligation to your fans to hold on to a certain amount of sci-fi information? Yes and no. I feel that I have to maintain and hold on to a respect for the genre and respect. [2:13:57] the knowledge that I will never have. There are people that can come up to me and tell me, [2:14:04] the entire history of Star Wars. [2:14:06] And before I was in Star Wars, I considered myself a Star Wars fan. And then I got in Star Wars and I was like, oh, I don't know shit about anything. It's a big ass universe now. It is. Especially now. It's huge. Keeping up on Mandalorian stuff. No, you can't keep up on anything. So I just – I always just say – [2:14:27] I would love to know more about that. Can you please? That's good. Can you please enlighten me? Because I don't know. I really don't know. And like these, you know, I have found that, [2:14:37] the sci-fi community, especially like one of my favorite things is going to conventions because I love, I just, I love meeting people and like new people and meeting the people that are fans of the work and we always have things in common and, and.

[2:14:51] I would [2:14:52] I would be so bold as to... [2:14:54] to say that sci-fi fans are some of the smartest [2:15:00] people I've ever met. [2:15:02] I'm sure there are a lot of nerds. They're very, very, very smart. And, and, um, I, [2:15:09] I just I can I cannot compete with that. I can I can tell you the lines that I can't forget. There are lines like from Battlestar Galactica. We've got violent decompressions irradiating from the port flight pod. [2:15:22] I thought I was going to be fired because I couldn't say it. I had to write it down. I had to tape it to my Viper. I was like, oh, my God, they're going to find out. Oh, my God. Like, I shouldn't be here. This is crazy. I'm an imposter. And then I find now I can't forget it. I had a line from Mandalorian that I couldn't remember for the life of me. And so I kept memorizing it with my husband. And he was throwing tennis balls at my face. So I was catching tennis balls as I was memorizing it. God, it was that hard? It was very hard. But it was... [2:15:52] Um, [2:15:52] Pirate King Gorian Shard is captaining a Cumulus-class Corsair of violent snub fighters. Oh, Jesus. [2:16:00] Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was just like somebody hates you in the writer's room. It's possible. You know, you never know. It seems so mean to make someone try to say that you say it fucking you say it first. It's true. There are times I have I have since like Ron Moore was on my podcast and I told him that like for 25 years, I have not been able to forget this violent decompressions line. And he was like, I'm so sorry. That's hilarious. All right. Because he's aware like he's aware that, you know, he's making actors say shit.

[2:16:30] you should never have to say in real life. Like, you know, and then furthermore, you have to try and decipher it, you know, like, [2:16:36] One of my jobs is to take something I don't understand and then say it with authority as if I do understand it. So I have to dissect it and learn what certain things mean. And if I don't understand it, I have to give it context in something that I do understand in order to like sound like I. [2:16:52] I'm not an idiot, which at times is hard. So, you know, it's, it's, it's, God, the, the jargon is, I learned the tennis ball technique with my husband and that's a great technique. That sounds like a good technique. You remember why you're catching tennis balls, then you really remember it. Yeah. That is a crazy sentence to try to remember. [2:17:10] Yeah, it was not easy. It was not easy. You're a part of something that people in sci-fi that I think is very interesting. Sci-fi is – [2:17:22] I think the genre of action that has the most badass women. 100%. Yeah. [2:17:28] At least it did. [2:17:29] It did for a long time. I think the OG is obviously Sigourney Weaver. 100%. [2:17:35] That. [2:17:37] I mean, that is like an aside. No one is like, oh, it's a strong female lead. That is an aside to an insane movie and an amazing performance. Like that last scene when she kills that thing. Oh. Yeah. [2:17:53] And that's 1979. Yes, amazing. That character, when I saw that movie, [2:18:00] I was like...

[2:18:01] I want to be her. Right. Because up till then, I only wanted to be Bruce Willis. I wanted to like save the Nakatomi building, you know, like I wanted these I loved action movies with my dad. And when he started realizing that I had this affinity toward these movies, he started showing me movies with strong female leads. And Sigourney was the one where I saw that performance and and. [2:18:22] She was everything. She was strong. She was capable. She was smart. She was feminine. She was funny. She was everything. [2:18:32] And it was a perfect movie. It was a perfect movie. [2:18:36] It was a perfect movie. Number two, possibly better, even. Yeah, this is a scene where she blows it out. [2:18:44] I disagree. You do? Yes. [2:18:47] Because number two, the aliens are too easy to kill. This motherfucker is so hard to kill. So hard to kill. And then in the second one, they're just gunning them down. Yeah. It's a different thing. It's a different thing. [2:18:57] Look, they're both great movies. I really loved Aliens. But the thing about Alien, the first one, was that thing was an amazing movie. [2:19:07] I mean, it's just such an amazing shot. Perfect movie. [2:19:11] It's a perfect movie. The framing of that is beautiful. There was never one moment in that movie where you saw what was coming next. No, because we hadn't seen anything like it. Nothing. The chestburster scene. I remember being in the movie theater. Look at the utter fucking exhaustion on her face. [2:19:28] Crazy. [2:19:30] Yeah. The chestburster scene was like, what the fuck? What? I remember being in the movie theater. I had no idea that was going to happen. There was no internet back then. Yeah. Watching them like, this movie is nuts. And that little thing was running around on the ground and his chest was burst open. It was so gross. Everyone's screaming. There's blood everywhere. It was wild. This is one of probably...

[2:19:54] in my opinion, [2:19:56] one of the best movies of all time. Oh, I agree. 100%. And again, the fact that it was a strong female lead was just as a tiny little part of the movie. It was just she was so good. You didn't even think, oh, it's a strong female lead. You're like, well, no, because they didn't tell you this is a strong female lead. No, exactly. They just created a phenomenal character and made her a woman. Exactly. And she just played the part. [2:20:22] Perfectly. [2:20:23] This fucking scene was so nuts. [2:20:27] It was so nuts. [2:20:28] Because you didn't know what is happening. I know. People have to realize, like, before movies were spoiled, there was no spoiler alerts back then. You didn't get to watch clips. But even just the way it shot, the frenetic energy of the camera. [2:20:43] matching the frenetic energy of his body. Yeah. Yeah. [2:20:48] This is such a crazy scene. It's crazy. Yeah. [2:20:51] Ah! Bro. Ah! Again, 1979, this is happening. I mean, the special effects back then were nuts. To have something like this, this is probably the greatest believable monster special effects in any movie up to this point. [2:21:12] I mean, by far, that was a little bullshit. That one was like it was on wheels. That was a little silly. It's on a piece of string. Someone's playing it. Yeah, it moved a little weird. But, you know, it's an alien. You were still scared of shit, though. I'm still scared. But then when you see the actual alien itself, you're like, what the hell is that? You never saw anything like that before. Not only was it completely unique in its design, it was horrific. And it looked like an insect, like an insect and a reptile at the same time.

[2:21:42] Yeah. Sci-fi was a place because I so I was a huge fan of strong women and genre work. And I found myself gravitating toward sci-fi because that's where women existed that I identified with. And I saw myself like, you know, I didn't. [2:22:02] see myself as like this [2:22:05] you know [2:22:06] Well, the characters I played when I moved to California. It didn't feel like me, you know? Right. [2:22:13] I really... [2:22:14] Thank you. [2:22:15] found sort of my calling, I guess, when I started watching those women. And I loved Sarah Michelle Gellar, and I loved Lucy Lawless, and I loved Linda Hamilton and Carrie Fisher. And like, [2:22:29] a lot of these women that were... [2:22:32] just really, really great characters. And they were written as great characters. And... [2:22:38] Starbuck was, and if you talk to Ron more about it, the reason why he made Starbuck and Boomer women, he didn't think about it. [2:22:46] He just said, okay, we've got... These are the characters from the original. These are the characters we're going to put in my version. Women are in the military. Women do exist in combat roles now. And we are making this for... [2:22:58] you know, the early aughts, we have to be representative of what the military looks like. We need to make a couple of these characters fit women. And he just said this one and this one. [2:23:07] He didn't even give it any thought, you know. [2:23:10] And so – [2:23:12] I think part of the reason why they were so great, the characters are so great, was that

[2:23:19] They were just great characters. Right. The writing was so great. There was never a time where they were like, she's the best female pilot around. [2:23:30] Right. Like Linda Hamilton in Terminator. She's just a great character. She's just a great character. And with a motivation that we all can identify with. So it's – and – [2:23:44] That's why she was such a great character. She opened so many doors for me because then people started to believe that I was tough. How many girls started doing chin-ups after they saw Linda Hamilton in the Terminator? [2:23:58] And it's so fucking hard. She's jacked. She's jacked. I did a Spartan race. [2:24:04] with um my husband because my on my podcast channel i was you know during covid and then like before covid we were i was creating content of sort of like katie did sort of stuff like i'd love to do this let's film it and see what it's like so we signed up for a spartan race and then recorded the whole thing and and my husband not only ran his race but then ran my race too like recording the whole thing um [2:24:26] That's the hardest thing I've ever done, like getting in shape for that thing. I got in shape for six months before. That was hard. Oh, yeah. And getting to a point where I actually could do chin-ups and then also pull-ups, too, I was like, wow, I'm strong. I felt so strong. At one point, so I get to the actual race, and I'd been training with such heavy shit that I got to the medicine ball where you have to pick it up, carry it, and throw it, and then pick it up and carry it and throw it. And it was so light for me. And I was prepared for it to be, like, so heavy.

[2:24:56] And I threw it and it kept going. And I had to slow down because I had to go get the ball and bring it back to where it was supposed to be. I had gotten almost too strong. Oh, that's hilarious. It was really awesome. It was so fun. [2:25:07] It's nice to know that you can get strong, though. Like, that feeling is a nice feeling. I wish everybody felt that. Yeah. Just get strong. [2:25:14] physically better. You'll feel better. But I had fun doing it. You know what I mean? And I also set myself a goal. I think that's really important to like, for some people that it's daunting, is setting a goal and and the goal doesn't need to be winning. The goal just needs to be. [2:25:29] Finishing. Why do you think it is that like sci-fi in particular embraced these like gangster women characters? [2:25:39] So my opinion on this is that I feel like because science fiction doesn't exist, because you're existing in these make-believe worlds, that strong women were not intimidating. [2:25:53] in sci-fi [2:25:55] Because we could be dismissed as not. [2:25:57] But that wouldn't happen in real life. Interesting. So that's – So men could then watch – [2:26:03] these roles. And not be threatened. That's my opinion. I bet you're right. [2:26:08] I bet that's the only thing that makes sense now that I'm thinking about it. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, because, like – [2:26:15] There's no female John Wick. [2:26:18] no no there's that one ballerina no that one the emily one [2:26:24] The one that Kevin James was in? It's a crazy movie about this young girl.

[2:26:31] just kills all these bad guys. I have no idea. It's kind of like tongue-in-cheek. [2:26:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's hyper-violent. It's crazy. That's what it's called, right? [2:26:40] Emily? [2:26:42] I think there's two of them. [2:26:43] There was one where they killed her dad and they killed her family and so she killed everybody. And then the second one she came back and killed more people. It's like a young, cute girl who just knows how to kill everybody. I mean, look, it's kind of fun. It's kind of fun. It's a funny movie. When I went through – What is it, Jamie? Not Megan. [2:27:05] Whatever Kevin James was in. [2:27:08] It was about a young girl who kills everybody. Kevin James? Yeah. Kevin James was a bad guy. He played a white supremacist. That movie's called Becky. Becky. That's it. Becky. Becky. Yeah. There was a second one, though, right? Well, there's a movie called Emily, and there's a movie. No, what was the... Kevin James. No, it is Becky. You're right. But there was a movie before Becky. [2:27:28] I believe. 72% on Rotten Tomatoes. Oh, it's fun. The Wrath of Becky also came out. That's right. [2:27:34] I just saw Ballerina. That's it. I actually thought that was really good. I think that's the first one, right? No, this is the second one. That's the second one. This is the first one. [2:27:41] I thought there was a prelude to it. Either way. Yeah. [2:27:44] Fun-ass movie. Oh, Joel McHale's in it. Yeah. Yeah, he's great. Fun. It's a fun-ass movie. But it's like, that's the female John Wick. Well, I think everybody's trying to create these, like, strong female characters now. And I think that one of the biggest problems with a lot of them is that they're...

[2:28:02] they're not focusing on the character. [2:28:04] to begin with, like we talked about, like write a strong character and then just make her a woman. Right. You know, like... Don't write a strong character that you have to have a woman. Right. Don't... I think that's part of it because they're all trying to create... There's so many of them now, right? And I love to see them and I love to give them chances, but a lot of times the... [2:28:26] the [2:28:27] I want to also see somebody that's believable in the role as well, right? Like one of the funnest, the things that I love to do is transform my body depending on what character I'm playing. Within reason, there's only so much I can do or that I want to do. But, you know, for my show Another Life, my character wakes up from cryo. I wanted her to look like... [2:28:49] and dehydrated and sinewy and like really, really, really lean, like almost unhealthy lean. And I got myself down to such a low body fat. It was crazy. It was like to get down like that. [2:29:01] $14.50 a day. [2:29:05] um, 15, 1550 a day, something around that time, um, when I was cutting. Um, but I packed on muscle and then cut like really hard for like, uh, three weeks before. Um, and I was eating a lot of protein. [2:29:20] And I got myself so low that my menstruation stopped. [2:29:27] And I was like, oh, this is too low. This is really low. That happens with a lot of marathon runners. Yeah, it was quite low. But I got to where I wanted to be. I looked the way I wanted to look. And then I naturally put on...

[2:29:39] you know, a healthy amount of weight as the series went on, which is what I wanted to do anyway. But so I want to see... [2:29:46] not someone do something detrimental to their health necessarily, but I do want to, I want to see the muscle. I want to see the capability in a character that's kicking ass, you know? Right. You want it to be believable. Yeah. Right. [2:29:57] Yeah. [2:29:58] Like... [2:29:59] When they all got in insane shape for that movie 300. [2:30:03] Oh my God, it's like... [2:30:05] That would be like... [2:30:06] Thank you. [2:30:08] the best job in the world for me. If they're like, "We're going to give you tons of time and tons of money to just get in the best shape of your life." Yeah, here's some trainers. We've got like six months. Let's do it. There was a lot of people that thought that they used AI for that. [2:30:21] They used some AI for sure because that was a crazy movie. For 300? Yeah. While they used – 300 had a lot of AI because it was – Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Excuse me. I should say not AI. I should say CGI. It had CGI for sure. That's what I should say. Yeah. Because obviously the giant Persian king was not really that big. There was a lot of like fantasy elements of that. Right. But I think they really did get an insane shape. And a lot of people like dismissed that and said that's CGI. [2:30:51] out, like getting ready. Yeah, look at these guys. [2:30:53] just going crazy getting ready to film this movie I mean they trained like animals mm-hmm

[2:31:02] So you can see the wall working out. [2:31:05] They really did just develop incredible bodies. [2:31:08] Which the nutty thing is anybody can do. You just have to do it. Do what they did. You'll get a lot better. It's a lot of hard work, though. It's not that easy. Yes, on paper it's easy. But, like, being a mom of two kids, though. Oh, yeah. [2:31:23] It's and having a job. I in the last two years, I I. [2:31:28] I'm hard pressed to find time to work out. And I wake up at five o'clock in the morning. So I'm awake before my kids. And, you know, I choose during that time to, you know, [2:31:39] meditate, write my journal, breathe, take time to myself, and then they wake up. I haven't quite figured out how to fit in. [2:31:46] my workouts. Well, that's an obligation that's very different, right? You're a mother, you know, and that you're doing the absolute right thing. You're dedicating all your time to being a mom when you're there. Like, that's just how it is. But, [2:31:59] for... [2:32:00] you know, [2:32:02] For the amount of hours that are in a day, it would be nice if you could just get a little time to yourself. As they get older, you'll have more time to yourself, and then you'll be able to get back on track. [2:32:14] but [2:32:14] Yeah, that's my plan. For people that have the time and don't do it, that's the wasted time. [2:32:19] potential of your resources. Like you don't have to do a lot. Just do some body squats and do some pushups. And you don't need a lot of equipment either. I think that's the thing. I think that we've made physical fitness in some way, because it's an industry, I think we've made it daunting for a lot of people. And, you know, I think that

[2:32:38] that [2:32:39] If you just focus on the things that tried and true. [2:32:41] Like you can do that stuff in your house without weights or with things that are heavy in your house. You know, you can actually make progress. Sure. And if you don't know anybody to teach you how to do stuff, all you have to do is go on YouTube. Just go on YouTube and look up beginner bodyweight workout. I'm sure there's a bunch of them out there. Yeah. And you can do stuff with no physical fitness equipment, just do push-ups and sit-ups and bodyweight squats. And you can get a great workout in that way. It's true. And nobody has to watch you. You don't have to feel self-conscious. Just you and your phone. [2:33:11] because during COVID I was doing my workouts and I said to my husband, I was like, might as well record this shit and put it out there. So yeah. And all of them are fun and, [2:33:20] interesting and easy and people still come up to me and they're like I lost you know a man came up to me at a convention the other day said he lost over 80 pounds doing the workouts that I put and signed up for a Spartan race and I was like that's awesome I love that that's so cool that's very cool see that's a great thing [2:33:38] They're your fans. They see you working. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm going to work out with her. Yeah. And everybody works out together. Great. Yeah. See, that's the great use of the Internet. Yes. The Internet has a lot of great uses. You can learn anything on the Internet. You can learn anything. You can find out stuff, how to make things and fix things and get information about something you never thought you were interested in. Like, look, you never thought that praying mantises were so scary. And now I know. But you know what I'm doing? What? What? [2:34:04] I'm now already in my head trying to write a children's book about praying mantis. Oh, you are? I am. It's like, that's my ADHD. Like I'm already. Once you saw that? Once I did. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. Well, I want a copy of that book. It's going to be a pop-up book. So every time you move it, the praying mantis is like. We just, for some reason, miss them. And when we're describing the most ruthless animals on earth, we miss the praying mantis

[2:34:34] I think they might be. Do they ever attack together? Do they work in coordination? That's a good question. If they did, they'd be unstoppable. Because that would be. That's Starship Troopers. That would be like if a bunch of women cycled their periods. We could take over the world. Right. Especially with those headsets. Get those Google headsets on. We could really, because then we just talk to each other. [2:34:53] Like, it would be on fire. Like, it would be on fire. Yeah. We'd like, you know, take over some crazy shit. For sure. That would be awesome. [2:35:01] That would be awesome. [2:35:02] Well, maybe that's a good use of technology. I know you're anti-AI. Maybe for that. I am anti-AI because I am in self-preservation mode here. I get it. I am desperate to be like, I matter, damn it. [2:35:19] And not just to my family. Right. You know. I know. I think we're all going to be like that soon. I don't know. I don't think so. I think it'll, we'll always find a place. [2:35:32] out. [2:35:34] where to, you know, [2:35:36] I don't know. Adjust. Pivot. [2:35:38] Yeah, there's going to be some pivoting for sure. [2:35:41] A lot of pivoting. How often do you do your podcasts? So my podcast is once a week, every Tuesday. [2:35:47] What's it called? It's called The Sack Off Show. It was called blah, blah, blah, but people couldn't find it. Oh, that's funny. So we just changed it to The Sack Off Show. And we're actually, like I said, doing in the new year, a Battlestar Galactica rewatch as well. [2:36:03] Because I've, like I said, I've never seen it. So I'm curious to do that. That's kind of crazy that you've never seen it. The Sackhoff show sounds funny, too. It's like it's your last name, but it's also it's like it's like a fun name for a show. Well, we'll see. It's got a good rhyme to it. It is fun. I have a lot of fun. I'm just trying to be like, you know, a tenth as good at it as you are, Joe. Oh, sweet. Well, you're very good at this. There's a reason why you're the best at it. You've been doing it a long time.

[2:36:29] and you know [2:36:30] You worked your ass off. Well, I'll just tell you what I did. I just talked to people that I'm interested in. That's it. That's all you have to do. I do that. It's really hard to... To... [2:36:42] find the right audience in an oversaturated market. Yeah. But it's happening. It is oversaturated. It is. But it doesn't mean it's inaccessible. If you're remarkable, you could pop through. And sometimes maybe it just takes coming on here and then people will hear about it and go watch it. And I'll be like, who's Katie Sackham? She's that chick from Battlestar Galactica? [2:37:04] But you seem like you'd be an awesome podcaster. I have fun. I love talking to people and I... [2:37:11] It literally helped me figure out that I was ADHD because I couldn't, [2:37:15] I couldn't not [2:37:16] talk on top of people. I was like, I listened. I listened. I did. My first interview was Bryce Dallas Howard. God love her. And I listened to it back in the car with my husband. And [2:37:29] And I was like... [2:37:30] Oh, no. [2:37:31] "'My God!' [2:37:33] I don't stop talking. [2:37:35] Do you wear headsets? [2:37:38] I do. You do. I do. That helps a lot because you hear the talk, the over-talking, which we all tend to do sometimes accidentally because sometimes you don't know when to come in. But... [2:37:49] the [2:37:50] It's a learned skill. It's a learned skill like everything else. It's like everything else. And you have to learn different people, learn the dance of different people. Some people have just a different thing. And always...

[2:38:03] In my mind, my number one goal is to try to get the most out of them, like get them to like have the most fun, the most – get the questions that stir their interest the most. Like something – I want to know who you are. Yeah. Like for real, for real. Yeah. Like I want to like help you be the best version of you that you can when you're doing it. That's sort of my thing as well. Like I wanted to – one of the things that came out of COVID for me was that – and I don't know about you, but I had weekly conversations with girlfriends. [2:38:33] to in years and we would like every tuesday at four o'clock we'd have a drink and connect again and the conversations were wonderful because we had the time to have them again and right and then i started going back to conventions and in the green room i was having these wonderful conversations with people and i was like god i wish i could record these because they're really authentic and um you're getting to see people in a very different light and they're really opening [2:39:03] If you want to cut something out, you can cut something out. Like I'm not here to like ruin your career, you know? Right, right. Um... [2:39:08] And, you know, [2:39:09] The conversations are really... [2:39:13] Um, [2:39:15] interesting and people are talking about things that they've never spoken about and it's just really fun so i've really enjoyed it well don't you think like you're learning in the process as well isn't that like one of the more fun parts of it the more you get to talk to interesting people the more you learn the more you understand how other people think and how they feel about stuff yeah and it inspires the shit out of me yeah you know like if i have like a month where i'm not hustling and someone comes on the podcast and they're like i got six things in production i'm

[2:39:45] I've got a book coming out. Man, I got six kids. I'm like, fuck. There's a balance you had though, isn't there? Oh, of course there is. Of course there is. And I think that I've found the right balance. I have the right partner that's like super supportive and we're a real good team. And, um, um, [2:40:02] And, yeah, it's just it's I've got I think I've got the right balance, but there's always going to be hustle in me. Of course. You seem like you're well balanced, though. That's a good thing to say. I try. You should ask my husband. [2:40:18] Contrary data. Well, thank you very much for being here. This was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. Oh, thank you for having me. And I was a huge fan of you on the show. Thank you. It's cool to meet you. Well, more things to come, I promise. I've got some really cool jobs in the can that are going to be me kicking ass again. Let's do it again sometime. I'd love to have you in here again. I would love that. You'll have to come on my podcast. I will do it. I'll do it. Bye, everybody. Bye. [2:40:48] Thank you. [2:40:53] This episode is brought to you by the Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer on average than dogs who are overweight. [2:41:05] Isn't that wild and also kind of obvious at the same time? So why is feeding vague scoops of ultra-processed kibble still the status quo for most dog owners? Healthy alternatives exist, and trust me, I know –

[2:41:19] I buy one, the Farmer's Dog. I use it for both my dogs. They love it. They eat it up quick. It smells good to them. It smells good to me. It's human-grade food. The Farmer's Dog makes fresh food for dogs, and my dogs love it. Their recipes are made with real meat and fresh vegetables that are gently cooked to retain vital nutrients. They also portion out the meals to your dog's nutritional needs, which helps avoid overfeeding and makes weight management easier and isn't getting more time with our four-legged [2:41:49] best friends something every dog owner wants the answer to that is yes obviously so try the farmer's dog today and get 50 off your first box of fresh healthy food [2:42:03] Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash rogan. This offer is for new customers only. [2:42:11] Starting a business can seem like a daunting task, unless you have a partner like Shopify. [2:42:17] They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. [2:42:25] There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. [2:42:31] With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into... Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer.