Will Trump Bomb State of the Union/Iran?

[00:00] Today's presenting sponsor is SimpliSafe Home Security. No one wants to imagine their home getting broken into, but the scary statistic is that every 26 seconds in the U.S., a family experiences a break-in. Scary? Yes. But that's why SimpliSafe has worked to make home security accessible to more American families. [00:12] I've set up a SimpliSafe. It's very easy to do. The customer support was great, gives you peace of mind. Plus, the app is really easy to use and works great. Had a great experience. Traditionally, [00:22] Security systems only take action after someone has already broken in. That's too late. SimpliSafe's Active Guard outdoor protection can help prevent break-ins before they happen. AI-powered cameras backed by live professional monitoring agents monitor your property and detect suspicious activity. If someone is lurking around or acting suspiciously, those agents can see and talk to them in real time, activate spotlights, and even contact the police all before they ever have a chance to get inside your home. No long-term contracts or cancellation fees. Monitoring plans start affordably at around $1 per day. 60-day satisfaction guarantee or your money back. [00:52] Report five years in a row, ranked number one in customer service among home security providers by both Newsweek and USA Today. And right now, our listeners can get 50% off their new SimpliSafe system with professional monitoring and their first month free at SimpliSafe.com slash crooked. That's SimpliSafe.com slash crooked. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. [01:29] Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. And Tommy Vitor. On today's show, we're going to talk about Kash Patel's make-a-wish trip to pound beers with the U.S. men's hockey team.

[01:40] for all of us. [01:41] while raising our taxes and potentially launching a war with Iran, which maybe he'll try making the case for during tonight's State of the Union. [01:48] which he promises will be long. [01:51] What a preview. [02:10] Clock It!, the upcoming Texas Senate primary, and more. And a reminder, if you want even more Pod Save America, more politics, more laughs with all your favorite crooked hosts, [02:20] And I guess some of your least favorite, too. There's got to be some least favorite. Yeah. Please consider becoming a friend of the Pod subscriber. You'll get our new extra episode of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends. Other subscriber-only shows like Polar Coaster with Dan Pfeiffer. Access to all of our excellent sub-stack newsletters like Pod Save America Open Tabs. Ad-free episodes of all your favorite crooked pods. And you get to feel good about supporting an independent, pro-democracy media outlet [02:50] There we go. Yeah. And once you get done discovering the bulwark, come over here. [02:56] crooket.com slash friends travel uh cash patel's travel log that could be a yeah show oh yeah we could do that oh yeah yeah [03:05] cash patel's some reservations pam bondy's things you should care about

[03:11] That's good. There you go. Put it behind the paywall. I love that. Now you can listen unless you subscribe. Crooked.com slash friends. All right, let's get to the news. The president heads into his State of the Union address on the verge of a war with Iran that very few Americans want, an equally unpopular tariff regime that has been struck down by the Supreme Court, and an approval rating that just hit January 6th lows in new polls from The Washington Post and CNN. [03:34] So naturally, he's in a great headspace as he prepares for the biggest audience he'll get before the midterms. Here he is at a White House event on Monday. [03:42] Polls are tough, you know, when you get a fake poll. I get them today. I saw one today that I'm at 40 percent. [03:48] 40%. I'm not a 40%. I'm a [03:51] Much higher than that. It just amazes me that [03:54] Mm-hmm. [03:55] There's not more support out there. [03:58] We actually have a silent support. I think it's silent. I suffer for the country. [04:03] he suffers silently do you guys think he'll be able to deliver the State of the Union with that cross on his back the whole time? I hope so [04:11] Yeah, it's... [04:13] He is going into this thing. So he's going to be in the room. There's going to be all these Epstein people will get to it. He's going to have the Supreme Court in front of them. He's going to have these poll numbers in his head. [04:24] He will have been told who he shouldn't be talking to, and it's going to take every – like he's going to be shaking with his desire to break the script and go after that. I think it's going to go all at – [04:36] Roberts in the Supreme Court. All the energy, all the anger, all of it. That's my feeling right now. You don't think Susie Wiles will have the shock collar, like sort of amped up?

[04:47] She would like to, but I could also imagine a scenario where Cash Padale comes out in full hockey pads, shotguns a beer, personally arrests a bunch of the Supreme Court justices, and then Frog marches them out. That's... [04:58] That would be content. Yeah, Cash Patel. I don't know if they make that. I guess you get the teen size. Yeah, they make kids' jerseys. [05:09] Washington Post had them at 60% disapproval. CNN has approval at 36%, 26% with independents. That feels bad. Hotest president in the world. Marist University, 57% of respondents said the State of the Union is not very strong or not strong at all. [05:24] I guess those are all fake. 32% says he has the right priorities in the CNN poll. 68% says he hasn't paid enough attention to the country's most important problems. He is crushing it. Let's go to work with Iran then. Everyone's in while he... [05:38] references the actual poll numbers [05:40] And he has a sort of sad quality to him. And I actually prefer when he just makes up the numbers. Me too. I feel like he wasn't getting any information that was real for at least the first year. I feel like some real information has been getting through to him. I don't know who's delivering it. He's slipping it there. Yeah, yeah. Because he seemed genuinely like, why isn't there more support? I don't understand. We're doing amazing stuff. There was some thought that Trump might take questions at that event about the war he's reportedly ready to launch against the war. You're mentioning the State of the Union. [06:10] if you just took some cues. I mean, that's a good... We should talk about that later, but that is a good strategy. Prime Minister Question Time. Just turning into Question Time. It'd be better. Yeah, instead of just, like, interrupting him, just keep asking the question.

[06:21] Do it anyway. But yeah, but people thought that maybe he would take questions at that event. He did in the White House on Monday. Maybe questions about the war he's reportedly ready to launch against Iran. But the White House seems to believe that's none of our business. The latest on potential military action as of this recording Monday evening is that the U.S. and Iranian negotiators are scheduled to meet in Geneva on Thursday for one week. [06:44] Last-ditch attempt at diplomacy, but Trump advisors are telling The Times that the president is considering an initial strike against Iran in the coming days to pressure them into some kind of a deal and may go for the full regime change operation later in the year. You're going to want to save that for later. It's all very confusing, including these comments over the weekend from Trump's top diplomat, real estate buddy, Steve Whitcoff, about an Iranian nuclear program that the Trump administration previously had assured us was, quote, obliterated. [07:14] You know, they say that it's all about their about their civil program, and yet they've been enriching well beyond. [07:22] the number that you need for... [07:25] For civil nuclear, it's up to 60%. They're probably a week away from having industrial grade bomb making material. [07:37] And that's really dangerous. So what do you think, Tommy? Were they were they lying before lying now? Or I guess you don't have to choose. They could be lying and lying in both situations.

[08:07] all the centrifuges, right, because of the last airstrike. So I don't know, maybe Wyckoff doesn't know what he's saying. But it's super triggering, because that framing that like they're a week away or two weeks away is what we heard from Netanyahu for decades, what we heard from Trump the last time we bombed Iran. And then afterwards, as you guys recall, we were told the nuclear infrastructure was completely and totally obliterated. That's what he kept saying over and over again, he even fired intelligence analysts who said otherwise. And now here we are, not even a year later, [08:37] And I think Witkoff's comments speak to this broader problem, which is why? Like, why is this urgent? Why are we doing this right now? Like, what is the thing? Right. And it's also what is the goal? Is it pressure them into making a diplomatic deal? Is it adopting the Israeli position that a deal has to deal with the nukes, ballistic missiles, proxy groups like the Hezbollah and the Houthis? Is it retaliation for killing protesters? Remember, he said he was going to bomb them for that. Is it full on regime change? We have no fucking idea. And it's not clear that Trump knows or has decided. [09:07] will retaliate. And so it just feels like we're about to go to war, but the reasons for it and the scope of it are not only not being debated, but they are secret from us. [09:17] And that is very weird. I still feel like we should probably talk a little bit more about the, you mentioned retaliation, potential retaliation here, because it does not seem like this is without great risks to American interests and American lives. So that New York Times piece about how like Iran, I'm sure you guys have been talking about this, Tommy, but like how Iran may, you know, direct its proxies to attack American interests in Europe, American troops.

[09:47] corruptions, right, throughout the Middle East that could really shake our economy. I mean, this is not a cost-free, let's lob in a few missiles. Or if he is just going to lob in a few missiles, then it doesn't seem like that's going to do anything. Yeah. And just all the more [10:01] It's sort of dangerous when the people in charge of telling you what the policy is are in some measure incomprehensible or incoherent. They have industrial-grade nuclear fissile material, as opposed to the farm-to-table stuff. Of course, it's confusing to the experts. These people are… [10:19] in over their heads. Meanwhile, like you see this, the stories about Trump having these sort of two phases in his mind, like a really alarming because he's amassing, uh, uh, [10:31] what is it like a huge proportion of our military uh around iran clearly he wants to do something i am sure behind the scenes they are telling members of congress and others like this is about creating pressure to get a deal but we don't know what kind of deal they're trying to get and then he says actually uh i may do a small war a small set of strikes and the big one will be later right because what is the he took the lesson he took right he took the lesson from the first strikes against [11:01] for him politically and without the negative consequences that many feared. So he took that as a kind of win. So he imagines he could do that again, get all the plaudits, right? And like, Trump is not a guy that like delays gratification. He has put all of this military force in position. He's just going to withdraw. That isn't the tough boy, Donnie, you know, the guy that's like so

[11:31] Israel that we've come to expect. So I just that the whole thing is set up for us to be at the very least doing some kind of a military strike against Iran with zero real debate in Congress and zero understanding of the strategy at all. It's shocking. And remember, last time Iran responded, they basically fired what, like a dozen missiles at a base, they warned us in advance, they knew we'd shoot them down, they wanted to deescalate through that escalation. There's a lot of experts who now think Iran will decide that they need to raise the costs for the US or else [12:01] 10, whatever, 12 months. And so they could respond with a giant salvo of ballistic missiles. They could hit U.S. bases in the Gulf. They could hit energy infrastructure like they could hit a Saudi oil depot and send up prices. They could hit Tel Aviv, Israeli targets like all it takes is one or two missiles to get through. [12:18] And something really bad happens and you're on this escalation ladder. And then also, I mean, they have like pretty advanced cyber capabilities. They could go after the U.S. electric grid or, you know, DHS, meanwhile, is like getting rid of all of its cyber defense. So it's just like, look, maybe there's a scenario where these guys have been decimated and they will not get a single missile off the ground because we are just so much better than them. And that's what happened in Venezuela. But it's like it's a pretty big bet.

[12:48] Elacination attempts don't work. It's like, yeah, man. Smart move. Yeah, that's a good idea. Make sure they don't work for you. That's right. Not that we can ever know what's going on in Donald Trump's adult mind, but I genuinely don't have any idea why he's doing this. Because like Venezuela, sort of kooky, but you could kind of see like, okay, it was a Stephen Miller thing. It was a Rubio thing. He likes getting the oil, right? You think Greenland, even that, you know, it looks big on the map. He wants to take that. [13:18] thing now at this moment um with this much firepower in the region is just baffling to me because it's like well i don't know like lindsey graham's pushing him to do it right um but like who else is really jonesing for a war with iran in his orbit lindsey graham's like a pig and shit i think i can imagine a couple arguments one is another oil-based argument [13:44] Suddenly the U.S. controls all the energy in the world if we're controlling the Iranian oil infrastructure somehow and Venezuela and our own. [13:51] It doesn't totally make sense, but sure. There's an argument that's like Trump no longer cares about politics. He just wants to be viewed as a historic figure. And he's got Lindsey Graham in his ear being like, sir, if you take out Maduro and the Supreme Leader, you are like, you know, the greatest president in history. And maybe he's listening to that. Like pure appeal to vanity. Yeah. And like, look, there's a lot of long term. He's doing that, too. We're genuinely low on munitions, especially like air interceptor missiles for the Patriot missile batteries, things like that. The Israelis are, too, after the 12 day war.

[14:21] watching this being like, yes, fucking unload the clip. Have at it, boys. We'll just sit here quietly and see what happens. It's nuts, but politically it's crazy. Yeah, the only other part of it [14:31] To make sense of it is he wants to undo anything Obama did and do better than anything Obama did. And so he is applying pressure in order to get some kind of a deal. Like the timing only makes sense, the aggressive timing in the context of trying to get some kind of a deal, whatever that would be. And he wants to go out there and say Obama sold out the country. I got the real deal. I fixed it. And I stopped yet another war. [14:57] Right. Like that, that to me is, I honestly, it's a hopeful direction. Yeah. Well, [15:02] I do think that Venezuela, we know that it was a pretty close call for the Special Forces. He has sort of danced through the raindrops with a lot of these military strikes. My one would say he's done that his entire fucking life. Right, of course. But it's like at some point, Americans get killed in this. These things can go south really fast. No one was killed in the Venezuela operation, but a guy got shot in the leg, one of the helicopter pilots, and then nearly went down. And that was in part because... [15:29] Clearly, the U.S., we know this from leaks that we had someone on the inside that, you know, turned on Maduro and set him up to get taken. I do think there is this sense that the post-Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts have been largely cost free and that we can just bomb stuff with drones or B-2 bombers and call it a day. Like, you know, the Qasem Soleimani operation in the first term, when Trump assassinated the then head of the IRGC, they responded with a ballistic missile barrage. Only by the grace of God was no one killed. Like 100 service members got traumatic brain injuries and that sort of ended the escalation.

[15:59] one guy dies there, it's up and up and up. You mentioned the politics. Here's the way a University of Maryland poll from a few weeks ago asked the question, do you favor or oppose the United States initiating an attack on Iran under the current circumstances? Oppose 49%, don't know 30%, and support gets 21%. And yet, the War Powers resolution from Ro Khanna and Thomas Massey, which would simply require Congress to authorize any kind of military action against Iran, [16:29] out in the Constitution and the War Powers Act itself doesn't have the votes to pass, at least as of this moment. Why do you think that is? Well, look, Venezuela... [16:39] Resolution failed in the House 215 to 215. That was with democratic unanimity. We've already lost Josh Gottheimer and Jared Moskowitz, who not only said they're opposed it, but put out a ridiculous statement claiming it was the Ayatollah Enabler Act. Protection Act. Which is just pretty insulting to your colleagues and such a kind of glib minimization of the role of Congress in approving military force. [17:09] Democrat in favor of a War Powers vote, you would still lose because Marjorie Taylor Green is now gone and Thomas Massey is not very persuasive with his caucus. [17:20] I think it's so embarrassing for any Democrat, really Republican too. I mean, I just don't expect as much from them. Um, [17:27] to it's not to just say like, yes, I think we should let's debate it. And I think Congress should vote to give the president authorization to like just give up your own power before there's even a debate. Just get to Donald Trump, of all people like Josh Gottheimer, Jared Moskowitz. You trust Donald Trump. That's that's that's who you're deciding to give your power that the Constitution has authorized you with a way to to Donald Trump because you trust him to do war the right way.

[17:57] actual vote to authorize. [17:58] the use of military force. They're just standing in the way of having a vote at all. And the excuse is, when you get further into that crazy statement, this resolution would restrict the flexibility needed to respond to real and evolving threats and risks, signaling weakness at a dangerous moment. That is such fucking, also like George W. Bush era Republican bullshit. That was a lot of the justification people used for voting in favor of the Iraq regime. [18:24] war authorization because they claimed it was merely to give [18:27] George W. Bush leverage to prevent the war in the first place, which obviously is not what came to pass. Yeah, I just I feel like that the. [18:36] debate is even worse than 2003 somehow yeah at least then there was there was a conversation about the underlying reason why we may or may not go to war which is this false claim of wmds that literally isn't happening it's just like hey look we've amassed a ton of military assets in the region and what's trump going to decide like here's some leaks about the menu of options before him is he going to just have an appetizer is he going to go with the full like you know it's just like a fucking video game it's crazy and like meanwhile like there there's like a real human cost here [19:06] Ford has now one of the aircraft carriers. They've had their deployment extended twice. So they've been out for eight months. They will possibly be out for 11 months. These are sailors with, you know, families, little kids, wives, husbands. They can only have sporadic contact with their family for OPSEC reasons. Like they'll go into quote unquote ghost mode for weeks at a time where you just like can't contact people. And also the fucking toilets are broken on the ship. I saw that. And like to fix them full, you have to dock. So there's 45 minute lines for a toilet on an aircraft carrier. Like imagine the nightmare for these guys. It's like right before we record the pod.

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[22:24] It's also yet another issue splitting MAGA world for various reasons. We just saw the debate play out during Tucker Carlson's recent interview with U.S. Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee, which produced this viral clip about Israel's role in the Middle East that the administration has also been trying to walk back. Let's listen. I just read Genesis 15, as I have many times. And that land, I think it says, from the Nile to the Euphrates, which is, once again, basically the entire Middle East. [22:52] land... [22:53] to his people, the Jews, or he didn't. [22:56] You're saying he did. [22:58] What does that mean? Does Israel have the right... [23:02] to that land because you're appealing to Genesis. You're saying that's the original deed [23:09] It would be fine if they took it all. But I don't think that's what we're talking about here today. What would be fine? What's exactly what we're talking about today? But here's what I don't think you're thinking. It would be fine if the state of Israel took over. I don't want to take it over. [23:21] They're not asking to take it over. [23:23] I will say beyond those comments, Huckabee's case for war with Iran seemed to have quite a few holes in it. What did you guys make of that interview and the broader intramaga debate over Iran? [23:39] First of all, Huckabee just does such a terrible job in this interview. It's really sort of hard to watch. Tucker just asks him hard questions. And it's just he can't defend the position. He just can't defend the position. He can't defend the civilian casualties in Gaza. He can't defend Israel's conduct of the war. And Tucker really makes a meal of it. At the same time, Tucker is somebody who has had a slavish conversation with Nick Fuentes.

[24:09] and so like [24:10] You see Tucker give... [24:12] Huckabee a really hard time and he is a [24:15] And Tucker is a very smart, very sophisticated interviewer. And it is, I think, notable that he turns it on in this conversation, but doesn't turn it on in some of those other interactions. Right. And so it's hard. You watch it like, yeah, I'm glad to see Huckabee face these tough questions in this sort of very sort of tense way. [24:45] way and the ways in which it was clear Huckabee really didn't want to have the debate and they wouldn't let them leave the airport. The whole thing was very strange. So I came away like kind of glad to see Huckabee put on the spot, but then like a little bit uncomfortable with the kind of the fact that it had to come from Tucker Carlson of all places. Yeah. I mean, Tucker's got some questionable motives, I think it's fair to say. But just in terms of like pure performance, like taking out the two individuals. I mean, it's a fascinating interview because Tucker comes in with a plan and he lays a trap, which is he knows [25:15] He wants to ask, why does Israel have a right to exist? And do all countries have a right? This is a universal principle. And he knows that Huckabee will cite both international law and theology. Right. He'll say that, as he said there, that the divine right that comes from Genesis 15. And Tucker is pushing on this because he knows that those two arguments are fundamentally irreconcilable. [25:35] And it is. [25:36] It culminates in Huckabee saying, yes, a literal reading would say Israel should control the entire Middle East and quote, it would be fine if they took it all.

[25:45] which is an absolutely crazy thing for him to say. Obviously, it was not his intention, right? But it led to... [25:51] This massive backlash, their statements from Oman, Qatar, Pakistan, Turkey, the UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt. Oh, I see the League of Arab States like every country in the region. They like that. They were not thrilled. It simply would not be fine if they took it. It would not be fine. It would be a real problem. They're not asking for it. So it would be fine if they did. Yeah. But that's not what they want. Yes. And it highlights actually like how much of an extremist Huckabee is on all the policy areas he oversees, [26:21] He says there is no West Bank. There's only Judea and Samaria. He says there's no such thing as a Palestinian. And so, like, Tucker is being a troll, right? [26:28] We question his motives. But there's also like, I think, from the countries that responded again, a lot of reasons they lash out at Israel. Some of it's anti-Semitism, some of it's bias, but some of it is genuine anger about Israel's territorial expansion. And that dates back to 1967 and the Six Day War. But also like settlement construction, the slow motion annexation of the West Bank. Israel has taken territory in Syria and Lebanon recently since the October 7th. [26:58] between two pretty flawed people. Yeah, I also think it, you know, the situation with Iran sort of combines the anti-war strain in the MAGA world with the anti-Israel, especially anti-Israeli government strain in the MAGA world too. And at one point, you know, Tucker goes in on, well, you know, Bibi Netanyahu has been to the White House seven times. He's like, what other foreign

[27:28] debate been with the american people over whether we launch another war and you can see a lot of like the anti-war stuff that tucker's doing you could see like gain a lot of traction not just with i mean because it is how most americans feel about war especially war with iran that no one has told us why we're waging or may wage um he also does some but with with republicans he also does this dual loyalty stuff uh with tucker and huckabee he does kind of he goes into sort of dna and who [27:58] America being controlled by Israel and making decisions on behalf of Israel. And so, yeah, there is this, I would say, like the alignment is between anti-war, anti- [28:10] America first types and some of the sort of the virulent anti-Semitism, anti-Israel. Oh, that's the other thing he does. He had to apologize. He actually apologized for it, but he made reference to the president of Israel, Herzog, being on in the Epstein files. And Herzog sent up a long letter basically saying, like, this is false and like a complete fabrication. And Tucker, clearly, I guess, in a way, that sounds like someone who's worried about defamation came out and said, I didn't know anything beyond what I read. I don't have any reason to believe it's true. If you defame, if you malign somebody, you should correct it. So he corrects it. [28:40] He is swimming in the kind of conspiratorial waters. He goes off on the Epstein files, too. And Huckabee's like, well, I'm the ambassador to Israel, so I don't, you know. And he's like, you haven't read the Epstein files? He's like, you don't know what's going on in the Epstein files? You're trying to tell me. It's so funny. Tucker really does the, I'm so confused. I'm not mad. I'm just confused. Yes, I don't understand. I don't understand. This sort of like Babe in the Woods thing. Yes. The interview starts quite hot. Yes.

[29:10] on behalf of Israel, who Huckabee met with for some reason at the embassy. Then I think it's into Epstein, or then it goes into some Israeli official who is accused of blessing kids. It's just kind of weird stuff. But on the kind of inter-MAGA Iran split, there are some genuine Iran splits. It is very hard to deduplicate at times the anti-Israel, anti-Semitism from the anti-war stuff, right? And that is a troubling piece of this. I do think I would divide it into [29:40] And on the elites, I still think when you're talking about electeds and media types, the hawkish traditional neocons are still like the majority. It's like the Wall Street Journal editorial page, Lindsey Graham. Like those are the people I think in Trump's ear the most. Although Tucker, the Murdoch Empire. Yeah, Tucker was at the White House today, right? Wasn't there a tweet about that? But unlike Iraq in 2003, you now have this far right faction of people like Tucker or Nick Fuentes, similar like Candace, overlap, Candace. And then some folks who are very hardcore anti-war. [30:10] of folks and I think like the podcaster Manosphere ecosystem who are more just kind of like, why are we doing this? Right. And then you have the people in the traditional kind of more MAGA suck up space who are just like Trump hasn't made the case yet. They don't. They're like where we are right now. It's just like, why? Why does he want us to do that? And then there's voters who are like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, I care about tariffs. I care about inflation or whatever. And I think ultimately, I'm [30:36] Some of these arguments are of good faith, like, hey, Iraq was bad. Why are we doing this again? Shouldn't we spend money elsewhere? Some of it's kind of weird. I think ultimately if Trump does another one or two day bombing raid like he did last time, they just won't care and they'll move on. That's what he's counting on, too. Yeah, but if it's protracted, it's a whole different story, especially if the Iranians blow something up in the straitohar moves and oil prices go through the roof and then there's real economic fallout. Yeah, well, the one thing about wars, you can always predict what's going to happen. Yeah, and they end fast.

[31:06] of not focusing enough on the struggles of everyday Americans, but that's clearly not true. He's passionate about making them worse by raising taxes again. After the Supreme Court declared his tariffs illegal on Friday in a 6-3 decision, Trump almost immediately announced a new 10% tariff on all foreign goods, which he then quickly raised to 15% on Saturday. Outbid himself. The president has been bitching about the court since Friday. This morning he posted that from now on he'll be spelling Supreme Court with lowercase letters [31:36] Based on a complete lack of respect. Got him. Got him. Me too. I'm going to be doing the same thing. Because he had been reading a lot of E.E. Cummings. [31:43] I also have a lack of respect for the Supreme Court, so I'm going to give them the lowercase letter treatment. I love those. The news over the last couple of days, it's like... [31:52] In a historic blow to Trump's agenda, the Supreme Court has removed his tariffs. The tariffs are back. [31:57] Trump officials are also out there expressing confidence that they'll be able to use other authorities to keep most of the tariff rates where they were before the Supreme Court decision. And they won't be taking any action to refund the illegal taxes we've all been paying since Liberation Day. According to Politico, this commitment to fighting for tax hikes in an election year has Democrats, quote, frothing at the mouth. For starters, Senate Democrats released a refund proposal on Monday.

[32:27] publicly demanding a refund check for every Illinois family. Newsom said pretty much the same thing on CNN over the weekend. Let's play a clip. [32:33] He needs to return that money, needs to refund that money with interest. He can do that in a nanosecond. The problem is for families, [32:40] It's been about $1,701 a year. That's a different... [32:45] requirement that I think he has to pay the American people back. I saw Besant out there almost gleeful. [32:51] He was gleeful that, "No, we won't be doing it." [32:54] This is dumb and dumber, Trump and Bessie. What? Is he doing this in a gallery? Isn't it Gustav Klimt behind him? Was that the kiss? I couldn't tell if that was... Oh, he was in Nashville. So he was somewhere in Nashville for his book event. [33:05] I only know that because I think Dan Abash said I talked to him in Nashville. Got it. I assume that's the only thing. That was weird. Has postmodernism reached Nashville? Okay. [33:15] I love that he could do that in a nanosecond. A nanosecond is very fast. It's very fast. Also, it's like they're all one-upping each other. It's like, with interest. J.B. Pritzker says refund. I'm saying refund with interest. So we've talked about the Supreme Court decision a bunch from Friday over the weekend. Everyone should check out our YouTube for that. But what do you guys make of Trump doubling down? [33:35] your mouths as frothy as other Democrats. I love the refund proposal. I think we should just be hammering the refund proposal. Everybody's entitled $1,700. Where's my $1,700? Get me my $1,700. I think that that is... [33:47] That is great. The other part of this is the leverage Trump clearly is afraid he's losing because of this ruling, because he's posting these unhinged things about how I have license to destroy other countries. Be careful what you wish for. And so he's sort of like...

[34:00] I think, worried about what this will mean for his sort of effort to kind of continuously have news cycle after news cycle about how he's sort of pummeling our trading partners around the world, which he views as good for him. I don't know. Yes, I think we should be hammering this all the time. He's fighting to keep taxes high and costs high for Americans. And by the way, he's keeping your money. It feels like a no brainer to me. [34:19] Yeah, I'm frothing. I'm a... [34:22] Walking bubble bath over here. I'm a cappuccino. This just occurred to me, though. I was going to go more with the rabies. Rabies, your rabid, right? Yeah. So I feel like, you know, at one point I was worried that he would give everyone like a tariff stipend. Me too. Right? Like a tariff stimulus. Shh, don't tell him. Now, if we, are we not worried that that would, this just occurred to me, like, what if he did write everyone a $1,700 check, as J.B. Pritzker said, [34:45] Would framing it as a refund, I guess, defang the political values at the hope or the hope is that he would just never do it because you feel like it would be under duress? I know. I didn't think about that. And then I heard Jesse Waters be like, Democrats have stepped into a trap. Now he's going to do a refund right before the election. But I was like. [34:59] I mean, that would be the smart political thing to do, but it doesn't seem like... First of all, I mean, he would have to just do it illegally, like he does everything else, because it would never pass Congress. Because they don't want to... They keep floating this in Congress, and Republicans keep knocking it down, Thune, all of them. They're just like, no, we're not doing a refund check. That's because we have a deficit, and everything's too expensive, and blah, blah, blah. So there's that. But they also... [35:21] They also don't have the... I mean, I guess... [35:24] I guess they could do it, but they feel like that's maybe giving up. Maybe that's... I don't know. Maybe, I don't know. Well, I think it's... I would, because I think this is... I'm also frothing. I think this is incredible that he is just going forward with this. I think there's no...

[35:37] There's no downside for Democrats saying... [35:39] Every American deserves a check from the illegally. This is basically money that was stolen from you, from our country. We pay the tariffs. We're educating people about it as we go. Like, you're all paying these fucking tariffs. Look, we're educating you. But like, but it is. And if you don't get the money, it's because Trump pocketed your money. He cut taxes for corporations. He's cut taxes for his wealthy friends. He did. But they can't afford to give you the $1,700 they took from you illegally. And then if he does it, great. [36:09] and gives Americans money. I think we could make that [36:12] argument or he doesn't. And that's something we can keep running on and hammering through November. So I don't see the downside to pushing really hard. You know, I agree on the messaging. I just wonder, like, what happens if we catch the car? It would be an interesting situation. And like, but before I mean, before this ruling, Fox News had a poll where they found 63 percent of registered voters disapproved of Trump's handling of the tariff. So basically, he's just drawing more attention to a wildly unpopular policy to begin with. It looks weak. He looks angry. It looks chaotic. Like and voters are just like it's not going to solve the problem, [36:42] And nothing he's doing is going to fix it. It's going to make it worse.

[37:12] be true or this. No, just out there being like, no, no, no. We are fighting hard to keep this tax increase [37:19] In effect. And by the way, we want to keep your taxes high. And what are we using for Republicans? And what are we using it for? We're going to use it to buy a plane. We're going to use to send cash Patel on a whirlwind vacation. Noam and Lewandowski are getting their they're getting their jollies. They're joining. They're in the Mile High Club. And by the way, a bunch of wars never approved by Congress, never voted on, never debated. Terrific. Oh, and we're and we're like terrorizing various American communities that didn't vote for the president. [37:49] by rounding people up and throwing them in jail and sometimes killing them. Money's gone to that, too. Yeah, so it doesn't seem popular. It doesn't seem popular, but we'll see. [38:06] Positive America is brought to you by Rocket Money. [38:08] I had a moment when I had realized I had to get my finances under control. It was when I was in what I call my lost year, and I realized that I had a lot of mail, and it was collecting in a garbage bag, and that there was some stuff from the IRS in there. But the cool thing was, the first letter said I owed them money. The second letter said they were going to take it out of my account, and the third letter said I was all good. Well, sounds like you could use rocket money, huh? Yeah, and probably some therapy at the time. Yeah, well, it's a personal finance app that [38:38] monitors your spending and helps you lower your bills. You can grow your savings. Rocket money allows you to track subscriptions and cancel them within the app. When there's a few taps saving you time and helping you avoid charges. You can even categorize automatic transactions across your accounts and customize categories with tags to help shed light on your spending patterns, set budgets and goals, get personalized insights and regular reports on your spending habits. You can even receive real time alerts for large transactions, upcoming bills, refunds, and low balances. The rocket money app can even consolidate your checking savings,

[39:08] to give you a clear picture of your finances. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at rocketmoney.com slash crooked. That's rocketmoney.com slash crooked. Rocketmoney.com slash crooked. [39:20] Pod Save America is brought to you by Quince. A well-built wardrobe is about clothes that work together and hold up over time. That's what Quince does best. Premium materials, thoughtful design, and everyday staples that feel easy to wear and easy to rely on, even as the weather shifts. Quince has everyday essentials I love with quality that lasts. Organic cotton sweaters, polos for every occasion, lighter jackets that keep you warm in the changing seasons. The list goes on. We're going to Australia and New Zealand. I don't have a pack for that. It seems to be both summer and at times... [39:48] Colds, it's very hot in some parts of it. [39:51] I have a lot of Quinn stuff that I'm bringing. [39:55] Quince works directly with top factories and cut out the middlemen so you're not paying for brand markup, just quality clothing. Everything is built to hold up to daily wear and still look good season after season. Plus, they only partner with factories that meet rigorous safety standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. Huge fan of Quince. Have a bunch of stuff from there, not just clothes, some sheets, a bag. They have great stuff. You should just go there and check it out because they have a range of stuff that compares to more expensive brands. So you should just kind of make it a habit to check to see if there's a better option there. Refresh your wardrobe with Quince.

[40:25] and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com slash crooked free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash crooked. [40:39] You may be upset that Trump's taxes on all the shit you buy aren't going away, but at least that money is going to a good cause. [40:44] flying the FBI director to Milan, [40:46] so he could pound beers in the locker room with the U.S. men's hockey team. By now, you've probably seen the leaked video of Kash Patel partying with the gold medalists, who he calls his good friends in a way that's... [40:55] Totally believable. I'm sure they're buddies. You may also have seen the vigorous denials from Patel's spokesperson that the point of Patel's trip was to go to the Olympics. He obviously had mission critical official FBI meetings that just happened to be in Milan at the exact same time as the gold medal game, which unfortunately had to take the FBI director away from lesser duties like keeping Americans safe or figuring out how another guy with a gun got past the security perimeter at Mar-a-Lago. So Tommy and I ranted about this on YouTube on Monday. Love it. Did you happen to have any thoughts on this one? [41:25] points I'd want to make. One, I think the most pathetic part of the whole thing is how often Kash Patel refers to the hockey team as the boys. The boys. He calls them the boys. It's a very hockey thing to talk. They're his friends. Oh, I'm hanging with the boys. You're not one of the boys. You've never been. I think your whole life is a story of a man desperate to be one of the boys who will never be one of... [41:47] the boys, you look out of place in every, every, every, there's never been an outfit. Cash Patel is worn that doesn't look like it doesn't. [41:53] belong on him he just always looks out of place and uncomfortable a little too big too small too stiff whatever it is so the the embarrassing thing of calling of desperately trying to hang with the boys uh was interesting and the other is um a lot of pressing work in the dolomites a lot of important investigations going on in the mountainous uh region of uh the italian alps

[42:23] traveled for work knows that you can play some games and have a work trip that also is fun we just went to melbourne sydney and auckland you know we can but we're not the fbi director brisbane brisbane of course we don't have quite the same remit as cash of course uh but the idea that like you think people can't see through this that you created some silly cover meetings to justify calling it a work trip nobody joke it's a fucking joke well you want to expense it it's like if you're [42:53] administration, obviously everyone's jockeying to see who gets to go to the Winter Olympics, and there's always a delegation that they send, and so you're like, oh, maybe Marco wants to go, or maybe J.D. Vance wants to go, who wins, or whatever else, but it's like... [43:06] And on rare occasions, meaning never, is the FBI director one of the people jockeying for that. Because they should have shit to do. Right. And they're not part of this. Like we in our system. Diplomats, ambassadors. The head of state and the head of our government is the same function. And so a lot of them have to perform that function. And we can say it's silly and maybe not worth their time and not worth the money. But we send. J.B. Vance doesn't have anything better to do. Good for him for going. Dignitaries. That guy doesn't have a job. [43:36] And these people are elected leaders and I don't care for it. But that that you can make sense of that. That's fine. Like he is the head of the FBI. He is a law enforcement official right now. But he's he's pounding beers in the fucking locker room. It's all so embarrassing. At least seventy five thousand dollars on our tab. At least it's way more. I guarantee it's more because the FBI director is required by law to fly on a Gulfstream G550 airplane. It's a private jet because they need security and secure comms. So the cost of just the gas alone has got to be like five, ten grand an hour. It's an 18 hour trip. Then there's this.

[44:06] oil from venezuela there's security there's accommodations there's god knows what else and so patel like he'll pay back a fraction of that but someone in congress just i know we can't but like it would be so great to subpoena the actual cost of this because i bet it's a lot of money great thing to promise for when we win the house yes but it also it misses the bigger opportunity cost of having this industrial strength douchebag as their fbi director more industrial strength not doing serious stuff he's not qualified for the job and he doesn't spend any of his time [44:36] He's been to ultimate fighting events in Miami and Las Vegas. He went to a hockey game with Wayne Gretzky in New York. I'd love to do that, but he should have better shit to do. During the manhunt for Charlie Kirk's killer, Cash Mattel was tweeting out inaccurate information from some exclusive restaurant in New York City. He goes on trips to visit his girlfriend. He went to see her sing the national anthem at a low-rent wrestling match at Penn State. He took the FBI PJ to Scotland for a golf weekend with the boys. The boys again. [45:06] The boondoggle ranch owned by a big Republican donor. Like, again, this guy is a fucking clown and he's making a mockery of everyone who voted for him. Apparently, there's a lot of outrage inside the FBI about this. I mean, that's why we've gotten all these leaks. The leaks of him sort of putting on his little coat and... [45:24] doing a performance of FBI director so much of what he thinks the job is. It's just sort of a performance. It's what's public facing. It's the headlines. It's the stories. Tweet out information mid-investigation that turns out not to be true. Loves to do that. You can do that anywhere. You know, we got him, JK. Yeah. I, who knows what Trump will do or like if he'll fire him. He doesn't fire anyone. He probably doesn't want to go through another confirmation process. I guarantee you he's seen these stories. I guarantee you he is pissed about it. We know there's been reporting that he was pissed about the travel and the PJ to visit the

[45:54] This will get onto his radar screen in part because it's not just libs like us that are talking about this. It is right winger. There's this guy, Kyle Serafin, who's a former FBI guy who's on Infowars all the time, who goes after Kash Patel all day, every day. His tweet about this stuff had millions of views last night. Like, this will get to Trump. This is the kind of thing that if you're Susie Wiles, the chief of staff, and you're watching this cabinet full of morons create bad headlines for you, this will piss you off. And you will be like, rein it the fuck in. [46:24] better like not like the cabinet is doing such a bad job doug bergham racer even if you're like yeah maybe doug bergham he's like on the better end of this and i'm like a labor secretary she's got shit with the husband i thought you know what jr they're like they're like they're they're shawnduffy they're shaking up hhs uh they're they're taking away rfk staffers because they're like hey we're done with we're done with the anti-vaccine stuff let's just have them go talk about uh raw milk and being healthy or whatever and by the way i'm there like the white house had [46:54] uh rfk jr to reverse a decision about a moderna vaccine that they weren't even going to allow uh luttnick's on epstein island gnomes fucking in the back of the plane tell you sean duffy former real work contestant he's the best fucking one he really is he's doing fine he's the remember the planes were crashing at the beginning though yeah they were yeah the planes were touching and that was a huge problem in the sky the planes are touching they were going fast and touching they were touching bad for planes they're not supposed to touch but he can't it's not his fault they

[47:24] you're just so mean to him you know farming soybeans fucking drunks blowing up boats he's just posting photos of himself benching [47:36] The benching, the benching photo. Was it, they claimed it was like 315 pounds or something like that? No. That seems like a lot. It's a solid max. And what is benching, what does that prove, do you think? That you have male pectorals and triceps. Strong pecs, big pecs for the other boys. Yeah, yeah. You know what? He could strangle the mullahs with his bare hands. I'll tell you something, I'll tell you something. Men bench press for other men. [47:58] Men do Pilates for women. That's what I'll tell you. Okay. That's what I'll say. Okay. Okay. [48:03] Sure. [48:04] Anyway, where were we? All right. Before we get to Lovett's interview with Simone and Eugene, let's talk a little bit more about the State of the Union. You know, President, the expectation setting for him has been just on point, telling us it's going to be very long, which is what America craves. Democrats are preparing to respond in all different kinds of ways, as we are wont to do. If you're looking for a more traditional reaction, you can tune in to watch Virginia Governor Abigail Spanberger give the official Democratic response. [48:34] For something a bit more ideological, Congresswoman Summer Lee is giving the progressive response. If you want to watch what's going to make Megyn Kelly angry, you can catch the Spanish language response from Senator Alex Padilla. I was going to say all of the above. There's a State of the Union pre-bottle from Congresswoman LaMonica McIver and a post-speech rally on the National Mall called the People State of the Union. Some Democrats intend to skip the speech. Others have said they plan to go.

[49:04] avoid disrupting the speech. [49:06] What do you think? Anything else we're missing? Anything else they should throw in here? The one thing I would just add is just that the... [49:12] the guests that they're bringing is that Schumer and others are bringing victims or people that have been impacted by Epstein. I think that is an interesting way to respond, to kind of put that in Trump's face. They're bringing Trump. He's already going to be there. Well, yeah, well, right, for sure. But like, I think that at least is using the moment to kind of force Trump to confront something, or at least the image will force Trump to confront something or not confront something, which I think is interesting. I would just say, if I were a member of Congress and you told me I could patriotically skip the State of the Union, it would be a me-shaped [49:42] in the sight of that fucking capital. Oh, you mean for my country I can skip this fucking long speech? Okay, I'll do it for America. [49:49] What about you? Yeah, on the pre-bottle things, like, if, you know, if a So Too pre-bottle is streamed on the mall, does it even make a sound? Like, I don't care. Like, the idea of, like, an official response was always kind of dumb. It never worked. It never got covered. I think in this media age, it's even sillier. And so it's, like, it's fine that there's, like, 25 of them. Who cares? We're not – there's no coordinated message. Everyone's just out there doing their thing. I think I would skip, too. Like, what's the upside for going? [50:16] The upside for showing that or the upside for going is to I mean, everything is a game for attention, right? All of these are going to compete for attention in a way that is probably most are not going to be successful. Because like you said, you know, maybe people who still have the TV on catch the official response after the State of the Union is done. If they they get up to go to the bathroom and they haven't shut this, you know, like so there's maybe some of that.

[50:46] rebuttal or this or that. It's basically like your own audience, right? Like, uh, if you, if you tend to follow those people, then you're going to follow them on this maybe. So it's not like you're breaking through. And so the only other option is to try to create attention in some way, um, at the safe union. So if you're going to go and either disrupt the speech, you know, turn, try to turn it into question time, have a guest that, uh, somehow Trump notices or their media notices and ask questions about, and then that becomes a little story. So it's just [51:16] attentional moment. Otherwise, why bother? I don't think where we're at now, and I talked about this a bit with Eugene and Simone, but the idea that yes, it does seem disjointed, but that's fine. Who cares? And really, yes, most people will be [51:31] performing for their own audiences. But you take that many shots on goal, you will end up with something hopefully that can get beyond the bubble and like some clips. Something that you can celebrate with cash. Right. Exactly. Yeah. [51:44] You know, on the flight home, perhaps. But, yeah, like, I just think you can get... [51:48] like some viral moments that come out of this i don't know who knows what they are but like that i think i don't know well because like you know we at the al green stood up last time and you couldn't quite understand him in the like he was he stood up and he was saying something and kind of found out later what it was you guys did anyone remember [52:05] that Al Green was escorted out last time until you read about it today? Because I didn't. [52:10] I did not remember it until I was reminded of it today, for sure. I remembered it just now with my memory. I didn't research this part very much because I think it's fine. What was he yelling? You have no mandate to cut Social Security or something like that. It was something along those lines. Who's to know? Look, there is a huge incentive.

[52:27] to be disruptive, get carried out in some way, make that all about the speech. And you could make an argument that I wouldn't really agree with, that it's beneficial, kind of. I don't know. I think people do care. They could all paint a different letter of release the files on their chest. They could all put a mask on. They could put a mask on. They could. Non-COVID edition. This is ice. [52:50] Anti-mask, mask protest, not pro-mask, mask protest. [52:54] Just to be clear. It's also hard whenever whatever party is facing the president giving a speech. It's like asymmetric warfare. Right. Like the president's got a he's got the microphone. The people in the in the chamber do not have the microphone. So they're all going to say you're always going to sound like you're yelling and you're interrupting. The president's going to be able to just like do what he wants there. Right. Yeah. There's a little. The other side of it, though, is this is a president uniquely. [53:19] disposed towards reacting in ways that rebound poorly for him, right? Like, he has the ability, like, if you can interrupt him and get into some kind of a, if he gets mad, all of a sudden, he's sort of, he's, you know, he'll break restraints and he'll start saying all the crazy shit. Like, he's on a, he's going into this thing on a hair trigger anyway. Well, that's it. I mean, the other side of that is at, you know, 35, 39% approval, he's going to ruin the speech himself. Exactly. Yeah. [53:49] and not a single Democrat could be heard from for the rest of the night. And people would still be like, that sucks. Yeah. If we were doing like, um, like a super bowl party squares kind of betting thing, I think like the, the odds on,

[54:01] Thing to happen are that he denounces the Supreme Court justices in a way that maybe get some like scattered murmurs and booze. Right. And like leads to some like civility freak out. There is another version of it where he uses a speech to announce that, like, on my orders tonight, we have commenced the bombing of Iran. And like he goes for the big dramatic thing. And I could see him doing that again for. [54:22] just because he is a drama queen and likes attention, but it would be the least popular thing you could possibly do with the biggest megaphone. You don't think that was a stop in the affordability tour? [54:33] There's some line in there that's meant to assuage him. That's going to be something about the shameful decision on tariffs. It is shameful. It was very shameful. He's going to start talking. [54:44] The... [54:44] Yeah, the you know, the the the fence around him is is fragile when he's up there. If I had to bet it would be just lots of stories of. [54:55] uh dead americans killed by immigrants just hauling all that out again like yeah lincoln riley acts they like to do a lot of stories they're doing that today very sympathetic americans who were somehow i mean they're i don't want to say they're good at that but they are at least adept um i'm trying to find those stories i'm sure stephen miller's all over that those are gonna be all the guests they're gonna have random fucking people who are helped by trump's policies because you can't really find them in the polls anywhere so they'll bring them to the state of the union he's already done the longest day of the union history right was that him i'm sure it [55:25] so it's going to be a long night. Fuck. Well, we'll be doing the Crooked Media official response. We will. Yeah. We'll be doing, we'll have a pod out about it after, and we're going to be on Jimmy Kimmel. That's the three of us and Dan. It's going to be late. It's going to be late. Late night. Yeah, so anyway.

[55:42] When we come back, you'll hear Lovett's interview with Simone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels about State of the Union and much more. [55:57] This podcast is sponsored by strawberry.me. Let me ask you something. You think LeBron, Patrick Mahomes, or Serena got to the GOAT status by guessing? No, they had coaching. Every pro athlete has a specialized coach watching their form, calling the plays, and finding the blind spot they can't see themselves. That is exactly how they win championships. Yeah, like a little coach named. [56:16] Bill Belichick, who was just snubbed by the NFL Hall of Fame. If he's not a first ballot Hall of Famer, literally no one is. [56:24] You should work for Strawberry.me and help out other people. So why are you trying to win in your career without a coach? You're grinding away. You're hoping for a promotion, trying to guess the right moves. That is amateur hour. You need a strategist. You need Strawberry.me. I don't care if you're Tom Brady. You need your Bill Palachuk. Strawberry.me matches you with a professional career coach who breaks down your game film. They help you negotiate that raise, navigate the politics, and execute a game plan that actually works. If you're wondering about the cost, think about it. One raise, one promotion, and this coaching pays for itself 10 times over. That is the best ROI in the game. [56:54] in your own life, go to strawberry.me slash crooked. Go today and get 50% off your first coaching session. Strawberry.me because pros don't guess, they get coached to win.

[57:08] Joining me today is MS Now's Simone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels, who are the hosts of the brand new podcast, Clock It. Simone, Eugene, welcome back to the pod. [57:16] Greetings. [57:18] Thanks for having us. So, hi to you both. What are we clocking today? [57:23] Well, there's a long list. You want to talk about the BAFTAs? You want to talk about the disrespect? Tony Gonzalez. Can I? Okay. Or do you just want to go with the State of the Union? I mean, we can go. [57:53] Let's focus on the news. State of the Union is tonight for our dear listeners. Trump says the speech will be very long. [58:00] Are you excited about that? And what are you both going to be watching for? Simone, why don't you kick it off? Well, I guess I'm excited about the length because Eugene and I will be watching the State of the Union on YouTube on MS.Now's YouTube channel, along with everybody else who wants to tune in with us. So if it's long, the longer we'll sit there and watch and have our commentary. What I am watching for is actually how many times the president veers off script. [58:30] Obviously, he is known to not stick to the teleprompter. His last address to Congress went, I think it was over about an hour and 39 minutes. That was the longest ever. Maybe he's trying to beat his own record. You know, he loves a fake trophy child. So I'll be watching for how long he goes. And then the lies he tells about the economy. I'll have to caveat it. They're going to be lies. He's going to say everything is great. Meanwhile, it's like Hunger Games in the grocery store. I want to know how far he's going to go tonight. Eugene, what about you?

[58:57] All of those things. But also, I think the Supreme Court just struck down his tariffs and they're going to be standing sitting right in front of him. Everybody but probably Alito who stopped going years ago. So how does he engage with them? Right. He last time he shook their hands and thanked Justice Roberts, which was very awkward for everybody, how he's going to talk about the economy. [59:27] telling people like, give us some time, it's going to be painful. So like, is that the message you want going into midterms? Is that what they're going to go with? Because that's what they've been going with so far. But I think how he interacts and talks about the tariffs, because it is the center point of how he thinks about the economy and his economic agenda. And so how he engages with them is really interesting to me. Yeah, it's worth worth noting that the reason Alito stopped going is because of a very mild comment about Citizens United by President [59:57] Did you write that? I don't think I did. Are you the reason Alito no longer attends the State of the Union? Man, but it's like Alito, if you keep talking like this, I, Samuel Alito, will stop coming to your events. It's like you're threatening us with a good time here. But it is – I am interested in what Trump is going to say directly to them. He's already in the past week said – he's said more vicious things about the Supreme Court than any president in living memory.

[1:00:27] Now, on to there's another group of people that'll be there. They're called Democrats. They plan to they plan to respond in a lot of different ways. Some are attending and what Hakeem Jeffries calls silent defiance. Democrats have also invited victims of Jeffrey Epstein to the State of the Union as guests. Other Democrats will be boycotting and attending competing events. If I remember of Congress and I could skip because I'm a patriot, I probably would. But what do you think? [1:00:52] Look, I have a piece up on MSI now right now about this very thing. I understand leadership's position. I want to I want to note that the leadership of the Democratic caucus, particularly in the House, Hakeem Jeffries has said, we're not going to Trump's house. Trump is coming to our house and you don't let somebody run you off your block, which is like, OK, I'm feeling the Brooklyn of it all. I get it. I get it. You know, I'm not mad about that. And I don't think that leadership should be encouraging like, you know, people to rush the podium. Right. [1:01:22] But I don't think that the leadership of the Democratic caucus writ large, not just Jeffrey's, like the entirety of the leadership and even the former leadership. OK, clock that should tamp down the ability for this for protest or disruption or understanding the moment. I know that when Congressman Al Green stood up in the middle of Trump's last address to Congress, he was not it was not taken well, frankly, by Democrats in Washington.

[1:01:52] caucus that voted to censure him. But you know who understood the moment and who appreciated what happened? The people outside of Washington, D.C., outside of the Beltway. That moment broke through. And that moment preceded many more inflection points of civil disobedience and people coming together in groups and protesting. And so I think, you know, never let a good crisis go to waste. Don't tamp down a good disruption is what I think should be happening. And if I [1:02:22] I would be on one of the live streams. I would be coming to watch it with Eugene and I on YouTube. Oh, yeah. [1:02:27] Members of Congress for live stream, they'll skip the State of the Union to do the live stream. I support that. I support that. Yeah, Eugene, I think part of the challenge here is it's always hard to figure out how to compete with the State of the Union. It's a classic dilemma long before Trump. You have the national stage. You have the podium. You have the pomp and circumstance. The responses are often – they often feel flat in comparison. [1:02:52] protests can they can get attention. My problem, if I remember when when Al Green stood up, it wasn't totally clear what he was protesting about. I think we had to find that out. Then we have to find that out later. So there's like there are challenges in trying to kind of take the microphone from Trump. But but what do you make of the decision to bring Trump? [1:03:11] people connected to, affected by Jeffrey Epstein to the State of the Union. [1:03:17] I think that's a great move, right? Like, I think it is something substantive that they have Democrats have been fighting for, making sure that there is a real release of the Epstein file, something that Republicans used to be leading on. They don't anymore. Shocker. But it is it is also like part of when you're talking about the the pompous circumstance of the State of the Union and what do you do to counter that?

[1:03:47] before. We're definitely going to interview them after. Now the White House and the administration have to figure out, Donald Trump have to figure out how do we, or if at all, engage with these women? Do we talk about Epstein? Do we say anything about the women in there? He's probably not, you guys, just to be very clear. He's going to say he's been exonerated. Correct. He's up and through them files all over the place. He's probably not going to say anything, but it helps to create a dilemma. And I think when you are on the outside looking in as Democrats are [1:04:17] trying to force people to make a move and getting them off the game is very interesting. Like, you know, Donald Trump watches a lot of TV. So it's very possible he has seen, you know, Jess Michaels, for example, before. So locking eyes with her, what does that do? It could create something. And if it doesn't, there's a substantive aspect of this where the DOJ has been holding back files. They've redacted more than members of Congress are comfortable with. [1:04:47] to folks not going. I was talking with someone this weekend, and they said that what they should do is be there and be silent. I don't know if that's helpful, but all the Democrats be there and be silent and then talk about it after, because you could appear looking disjointed doing all these different things. And this is one of the things the Hakeem Draftings was so worried about, because now you have this, I think it was like the We the People State of the Union rally that's happening with Chris Van Hollen

[1:05:17] that are going to go there, the people that are just going to skip completely. So it's kind of all over the place. So it could appear to the American people as disjointed when they want a Democratic Party that feels more unified. Can I just say one other point about that? Because in talking to some folks in leadership, people out of leadership and some strategists, one of the things that they have all said is that, look, we are on offense here. Republicans are on defense. And so we don't want to do anything that will potentially knock us off our own game. And [1:05:47] not talk about something else that could be a distraction. And I just think that the American people are smart. Donald Trump lies every day. Sitting in the chamber silently while he lies about the economy and then hoping to get a cable news hit afterwards or going live on your Instagram, I don't think that meets the moment. Now, I think that some people going and some people not, it will seem to spare it. I will also note there's a weather issue here in the northeastern part of [1:06:17] States, the DMV area. So some people might just not be there because the flight won't make it, child. And has anyone let... [1:06:23] the District of Columbia know about the technology of snowplows? Or is that something that is still are still looking? No, we're still trying to figure that one out. We're waiting until we're a state to be able to do that. Has seen the remnants of the last situation. And, you know, my street was quite clear today. So kudos. Axios reported today that. Uh. [1:06:43] this uh hidden autopsy report uh that the dnc has done that one of the uh lessons one of the findings uh is that gaza uh and the administration's position on uh

[1:06:57] Israel and Gaza cost Kamala Harris votes in 2024. What did you make of that news? And why is this? [1:07:22] The T is the report is not being released allegedly, according to people familiar that I have talked to. And I want to caveat with this. I have not seen the report myself, but I have heard all about it. It's not being released because they believe that it will be a distraction. And it's a distraction that is not wanted by folks on the House side, the Senate side, Democrats with large across the country in terms of like the the alphabet committees, as I like to say, the DCCC, the DNC, the DSCC. They don't want that out before the midterms. [1:07:52] autopsy in like December of 2026. But I because I think more eyes have started to get on it. That's how some of these things are are leaking out. One could argue you should have just ripped a bandaid off this summer. And we were last summer, like last fall, frankly, and we wouldn't even be talking about it later. But that's how the ball bounces. I don't necessarily agree. But I'm just [1:08:22] I just find it hard to believe that what's inside of this document is so controversial that it'll be felt in an election eight months from now, especially when we're getting the outcome of it. We're getting the information.

[1:08:32] I mean, the same reason why Democrats are like Hakeem Jeffries is like either stay home or go and sit silently is the same reason why they're not releasing this autopsy. Democrats feel like they are on offense and they do not want unforced errors. And they feel like releasing this will be unforced error. I think not releasing it is an unforced error. And I think we probably all agree because you have you one. They promised to release it. So that's what's most important is that you add one when you're running. Right. Ken Martin, who's now the chair of the DNC, said he was going to release it. Of course, he would release it. [1:09:02] a different decision. So that just reiterates to voters within the Democratic Party that people who are elected, whether they are actually in office or whether that one of these alphabet committees, they don't follow through with what they say they're going to do when they actually get the job. So that is one concern. Two is that we are going to find out what's in here, right? Like Holly Otterbein and Axios is not the only reporter sniffing around. We all are. And so she [1:09:32] You know, race, we'll find out gender, we'll find out, you know, what was the ground game? What was the digital game? Like, all of it is going to come out. And so the ripping off the Band-Aid should have happened because at this point, it's just going to be like drip. [1:09:44] drip drip drip and then in october maybe something huge happens and now you're really embarrassed before voters go and vote in november and so i think at the end of the day [1:09:54] The party may have made a misstep here. And there are a lot of people, especially the younger folks that work within the party apparatus who are frustrated with this that I've talked to, who are like, we should have just released it. We would have forgotten about it. Of course. All the things that Donald Trump is doing every day, like if we release it and then we would have bombed Iran and then everybody would have moved on. Right. Like it's like that that is the that that is how you have to think nowadays. And I don't know why.

[1:10:24] confusing for people that I pick college football. You have to play offense and defense. You have to do both to win the game. Did you have a heated rivalry? [1:10:31] i wish i really wish i really wish that's like my only regret because there were a couple moments where i feel like i could have but i was too scared oh yeah my biggest regret yeah the uh on the autopsy it's it's it like first of all i want to know what we got for buying that sphere and then the other part of it is what we get for the sphere it's a waste of money but then i'm sorry but you can't be you can't you can't have as people would say during that time more money than [1:11:01] advertising on the spear, but organizers in Phoenix and Nevada, specifically Las Vegas, can't get money to do their GOTV outreach efforts. There's a disconnect. And I just think, I agree with y'all, ripped a bandaid off. I mean, to be very clear, the voters in the streets that are going to decide who the next Democratic nominee is, they actually don't necessarily care much about the autopsy. I think we care about the autopsy, understandably so, for various reasons. [1:11:31] so release the tapes yeah really yeah i i would say like you know release the martin files but the the uh sorry i don't know if that's now can i just say i have heard that it is not ken martin himself that is independently saying i'm not releasing it there are lots of people that don't want to release but ken martin i mean he's the dnc chair so he's he's the face of it but yeah i understand why what i just said is terribly unfair in a variety of ways but the other it's also like

[1:12:01] on your terms, you're putting it in the hands of feckless reporters, sort of, you know, people like Eugene, people like Eugene trying to get their hands on it. Dirty, grimy little hands. They don't give a fuck what happens. They want the scoop. [1:12:15] Yeah, release the information to the people. This just feels so, so nasty. It is. Like, what is this? Nasty it is. It's very sinister. Let's me get them tapes. [1:12:28] I love how we've made them tapes. They are papers. They are papers, yes. It's a PDF. So, Gavin Newsom, I want to cover him. Eugene has thoughts. I do have thoughts. He had these comments over the weekend about his son not wanting him to run for president. [1:12:45] But obviously he's running. He's sort of the front runner to be the front runner right now. He's been trying to kind of I think people have been impressed by his kind of ability to kind of break through and get attention and going after Trump. Eugene, what do you what do you think? [1:13:00] Now, I think that's right. I think people are like, especially the online people. And this is where the you have to live in like Twitter is not real life. But like the folks online who are watching him, they're they're excited about seeing someone fight back. Right. That's what Democratic voters want. They want someone who's caught fighting. And that's something he's done. He's done it in court. He's done it on TV. He's done it in this book. He's on this tour now. But I also think that. [1:13:27] When you're a politician, you got to be careful about how you're talking about things. Right. He's he was up there in Atlanta talking to the mayor and he's doing his interview about his book. And the he's trying to explain that he's just like one of the folks. Right. Yeah. What he's saying. Yeah. I'm just like you. Like I get what he's saying. And I think a lot of people understand what he's saying. But you're trying to run for president, like being like, I have a nine hundred sixty SAT. I can't read just like you. And it's like, wait a damn second, sir. We can read.

[1:13:57] like you have to just be it's about being careful it's important to note that he said it before he said it in that um in the interview he did with charlie kirk on his podcast but in that room that he was in with um andre dickens the mayor of atlanta okay um within that black room he was in it didn't land well okay even the mayor if you just watch the clip the mayor didn't laugh at first he was kind of like like it didn't land well and i just think it's those kind of things [1:14:27] Because this is going to be 2020 on steroids. Everybody and their mama wants to be the Democratic nominee. There's sort of a – [1:14:35] And the response has been blown up by kind of right wing Republicans and right wing accounts. And I don't know how there needs to be some sort of a name for it, which is Republicans doing the kind of doing their impression, their kind of trolly impression of circa 2020 Democrats to try to kind of like troll Democrats because they're the ones that really care about racism. [1:15:05] of like sort of uh like how dare you kind of away when like he just had two weeks ago to say the the the monkey video was the most racist thing he's seen out of the white house which means he's seen other racist things out of the white house so i don't know the first racist this is the only racist this is the most racist thing yet okay so let's be very clear and let's serve like this is not this does not touch what you've seen come out of the white house but they're going after him because

[1:15:35] want to, I mean, you work for Obama. Do I even need to tell you this? Like at this time prior to the 2008 election, people didn't think it was Barack Obama. They thought it was Secretary Clinton. They were like, she's the front runner. There were other people that maybe also wanted to be president. Joe Biden was about to be on his second run for president yet again. Like maybe that was his third. I can't recall. So he, there were lots of people, but no one would have said at this point in time prior to the 2008 election that Barack Obama was definitely going to be the Democratic [1:16:05] And so they're attacking who they, quote unquote, think is the front runner. But I will just tell people the things that are going to make a difference or who actually shakes out to the top in this Democratic primary when it finally gets underway. And to be clear, we're in the early, early, as as Love is said, we're in the early days. But post midterms, baby, we are kicking off. It's going to be the map. What is the map? How does the map shake out for the primary? Because the map is going to tell a lot. OK, the map can take some people out or it can boy you some people till the end. [1:16:35] I'm going to be the reliable black voters choose the Democratic nominee in this party. But you know what? Black voters do not make their do not make their decision in a vacuum. They want to know what some of the white voters are going to do. They want to know what some of the Latino voters are going to do. They might say, damn, these white voters, these Latino voters. This is what the black voters want. The map, though, helps color that the primaries help color that how people stand up in the bright lights, how they fail on the debate stage. [1:17:03] Let's be clear, Vice President Kamala Harris, then Senator Harris, she did very well on the Senate confirmations in the judiciary hearings when she got on the debate stage.

[1:17:12] You know, it was a little bit of a different story in that 2020 primary. So the things that we see out here in the wild don't always translate when the primary gets underway. So. [1:17:20] Watch this space, as Rachel Maddow would say. What do you think of Biden? There's a story in Axios that South Carolina is enlisting Joe Biden to try to keep South Carolina early in the process. I'm not sure what that even means. I understand why. [1:17:36] Yes, because I understand why they would ask him because, you know, he has no current dog in the fight. He just he loves South Carolina. South Carolina kept him afloat. I mean, the matter for him. So I understand why. [1:17:50] He's not the only person that they have enlisted. I don't think South Carolina is losing its place in the top first five contests, I would say. But I highly doubt that they'll end up being first. [1:18:00] I will say this. I think [1:18:03] The idea... [1:18:05] Joe Biden is a good choice to help push South Carolina across the finish line. I get having that idea. Y'all some haters. I think the current... No, I just think the current setup of the Democratic Party is like, that's not going to... That's not going to be the push to keep South Carolina. I think that obviously, and I imagine... [1:18:24] Mr. Clyburn is one of those folks that is at the top of that list who actually does have some still pull and lots of respect within the Democratic Party and the Democratic Party apparatus, most importantly, to get that done. I think that. [1:18:38] people are still raw about, to say the least, about Simone's former boss. Which one? Which one? Yeah. Well, the first one, the old white man. Which one?

[1:18:52] The second old white man. Thank you. To be clear. And so I think the folks want, they desperately want that pull to still be there that Joe Biden had. I think he doesn't have, there's still a lot of respect within the party, but I think like, give it a, give it some time. [1:19:08] I will just say this as a former DNC member. I think the respect within the actual party apparatus is what matters. It is the people within the party apparatus that are going to make the decision about the map. Given the recent events of the death of Reverend Jesse Jackson, the changes that Reverend Jackson pushed for to make sure that black people had viable chances, frankly, within the party to even become the nominee. [1:19:38] 1988 Jesse Jackson child. So if you think black people are about to let their cachet slip away within the Democratic Party apparatus, you got another thing coming. DEI might be out, but out everywhere else. At Target. DEI might be out at Target, child. But what black and Latino and women and AAPI Pacific Islander and everybody that's not a straight white man want and need, that is very much so in inside the Democratic Party apparatus. [1:20:08] have been important. But I remember from 2008, that once we got into the primary was less about the sequence and more about the kind of the makeup of the state's electorate, like there was the momentum was less important than the fundamental qualities of what was happening in the state, because we were bouncing back and forth. You know, Hillary was winning in the places she was expected to win. And that was happening deep into the process. To be clear, had Barack Obama not

[1:20:38] matter no no sequencing of the states matter i think both really are important but then with joe biden right he will he you know people are telling him to drop out but he's saying wait for south carolina and he was right about that so it was you know i think it's like a it's a absolute absolute absolutely absolutely and uh i was gonna i was gonna say doesn't have a dog in the fight because the christy gnome killed that dog but so oh oh doesn't even make sense uh i want to i want to land on the back i do want to ask about what's happening in texas just last last sort of serious [1:21:08] is we have this battle between jasmine crockett and james tallarico uh uh [1:21:14] You know, it seems to be about what it means to be electable in 2026 in Texas. And I'm curious what you make of the back and forth between the campaigns. [1:21:27] The fight is less ideological in the Democratic Party now, and it is about do you fight and how you fight? And I think like those two people show you kind of the different ways in which folks are going to be doing that throughout the year. Right. As we head through the primary season, I think that the. . . [1:21:45] When certain people say electability, it is a dog whistle and it's very clear what they mean. Right. Like we know we all know what that actually means. We know what it meant when people said that about Barack Obama. We knew what we know what it means when they said about Kamala Harris. We know what it means when they said about Jasmine Crockett. [1:22:02] When, but... [1:22:05] The in in Texas and is very unclear how this is going to shake out. But if you look at both of them were in Lubbock, Texas, I think, over the weekend. And if you look at their crowds, the crowds are vastly different in the same city. And you have her crowd, which is super diverse, younger people, older people, lots of black and brown people. Here's not so much.

[1:22:28] Now. [1:22:29] Texas is a very diverse state. I don't know if that bodes well for him. Who knows? We'll see. But I do not think the Stephen Colbert of it all is going is going to change a lot of voters minds. I don't think that there are a lot of Texas voters who are like, oh, he didn't get to do his his interview didn't get to air on Stephen Colbert. So then I got to vote for him. Like, I don't think that's how voters are thinking. And as a as a person who graduated high school in Texas, I don't think and have a Texas hat, too. It's very crazy. [1:22:59] saying it is you don't want to ask a follow-up question about no don't do that everything's bigger in texas they say it's true [1:23:07] I do not want to address that comment. What I will say is this. I think that at the end of it, I agree with what you said about electability. Like basically, are they electable in Texas? We're asking, will white people vote for Jasmine Crockett? Right. [1:23:37] national television. It's insane. That being said, the way you win a primary is still a ground game. Early vote in Texas is happening right now. If you talk to folks within the Texas Democratic Party, they will tell you they are encouraged by the numbers that they're seeing. Early vote is by Democrats is outpacing Republicans. There is energy in this race. We don't know who those voters are, though. And I think that the people that don't like the electability conversation,

[1:24:07] I don't want to use that term, but they're trying to weigh Jasmine Crockett down and try to take her out of the race with the electability conversation. Maybe who might not have really felt strongly about her initially, but like feel strongly about the fact they try to take her out. So like now we're going to vote for her. [1:24:23] Maybe there are enough of those voters, but I just I just think the kind of campaign that has been run, she didn't run a traditional campaign. So she is able to eke out in this Democratic primary. It won't be because she ran a stellar campaign. I want to be really clear. It'll be because I believe that she had great name ID. She had a good message and she was the kind of fighter that Democrats in Texas want to go into their general election. Not because the ground game is just so great. And that's that's OK to say because it's the truth. [1:24:53] that Tal Rico has not been, I think, attacking Jasmine Crockett on the stump that he has been saying. He's been sort of, I think, above board, right? You agree with that? [1:25:04] I think he's been overly above board. Yes, agree. I agree. Operative in me is like, I'm not saying you got to attack her. And I and I wouldn't have advised that of him. But I mean, he has been practically out there saying and to be clear, if she wins, I'm going to support her. Even at his fundraisers. He's like, and I think you all should, too.

[1:25:34] nice these niceties the democrats are still scarred from like that you know democrats don't actually like infighting unless it's a presidential primary situation but democratic voters they really don't like that like they really just they don't want people attacking people they just want to talk about the issues until they don't so but that's part of this is the moderate has done the right situation but that's to get at the moderates you would need the like kind of less partisans that you would need that the argument would be crock it'll have a tougher time with right like that that would be why he's sort of running it in this sort of positive way i i think [1:26:04] to be very clear. And I think, and I think it's what he thinks will get him a, is what he thinks will work for him. I think if you, I've asked Jasmine Crocker, we had her on our show like two weeks ago and I asked her straight up like, [1:26:15] Do you think white people will vote for you, essentially? And Michael Steele asked as well. And she said that she has Republicans in her phone right now who have told her that if she wins, they will support her. So this idea that she can't win, Republicans won't vote for her isn't right, which was also a tone shift for Jasmine Crockett, who started her election talking about white people. [1:26:33] We don't need the Reds. We just need all the blues. And I think as my colleague, Michael Steele, would say, the former RNC chairman, which is crazy because our Democrats are like, we need Michael to run the party. I'm like, Michael, there's a reason we are here. Y'all just has rebranded well. Pay attention. Y'all need to clock that. OK, I didn't read that bio. He said, you know what campaigns reveal that they reveal candidates go on a journey in a campaign.

[1:27:03] has obviously been on a journey in this campaign and has arrived to the place where she needs to be to try to win well we have to leave i promise people the baftas but i i don't [1:27:15] We're going to talk about the Bachelors on our podcast. You're talking on your show. It's insane. We're talking about it on ours. It's insane. I want to redo a Black History Month. Tune in on Thursday. Too much. It's too much. Every Black History Month, they trying us, Eugene. And it's just 28 damn days. Can we just get 28 days? He did not go to the mat to get Negro History Week and turn into Black History Month for us to talk about this disrespect and racism during Black History Month. Not today. It's too bad. Eugene Daniels, Simone Sanders Townsend, [1:27:44] What a joy. New podcast, Clock It. They were doing a live stream during the State of the Union, you know. [1:27:51] Join us. Join them. [1:27:59] That's our show for today. Thanks to Simone and Eugene for coming on. We'll be back in your feed tomorrow morning with a bonus episode reacting to the State of the Union. Everybody hang in there. [1:28:09] If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to crooked.com slash friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. [1:28:18] Also, please consider leaving us a review. That helps boost this episode and everything we do here at Cricket. Pod Save America is a Cricket Media production. [1:28:26] Our producer is Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farrah Safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reid Churlin is our executive editor.

[1:28:33] Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. [1:28:43] Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. [1:28:47] Thanks to our digital team, [1:28:49] Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcoat, Mia Kelman, Carol Pellaviv, David Tolles, and Ryan Young. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [1:29:02] . [1:29:07] you