Jaggedness Principle: Rethinking Talent & Success from Todd Rose

[00:00] Finance leaders know this. Growth is expensive and spend flexibility matters. With the American Express corporate program, you can manage spending and payments in ways that help protect your working capital. Learn more at americanexpress.com slash corporate. Terms apply. [00:15] Summer's a gift. The gift of days that last a little longer. A brighter state of mind. So gift yourself a new Kia at the Kia Summer Sticker Sales Event. The specially tagged vehicles including the Sorrento, Sportage, Carnival, [00:30] All backed by a 10-year, 100,000-mile limited powertrain warranty. So the gift of summer can keep on giving for summers to come. Kia. Movement that inspires. Call 800-333-4KIA for details. I was just a fee of N7626. See dealer for warranty details. [00:45] So what if I told you the smartest person that I know graduated or actually got a GED with a 0.9 GPA and went on to get a Harvard doctorate? [00:55] You're about to listen to an amazing episode with my buddy Todd Rose, who's going to break down a lot of collective illusions that we have in society on leadership, on culture. We talk about all things New England Patriots, but at the end, we really break down what everything means to Todd and why he does the things that he does. Ladies and gentlemen, I present my really good friend, the esteemed. [01:19] The Honorable. [01:20] Todd Rose. [01:22] You're listening to Mick Unplugged, hosted by the one and only Mick Hunt. This is where purpose meets power and stories spark transformation. Mick takes you beyond the motivation and into meaning, helping you discover your because and becoming unstoppable. I'm Rudy Rush, and trust me, you're in the right place. Let's get unplugged.

[01:49] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged and today we're going to talk about the show. [01:54] We are diving deep with the visionary who is reshaping our understanding of human potential [01:59] the future of leadership. [02:01] He has a GED. [02:03] And several... [02:04] Hartford degrees to back it up. Fly it. [02:07] The most important part of this conversation to me [02:10] He is the New England Patriots. I are just as much as I am. So please join me and welcome you. [02:15] The visionary, the incomparable, my God. [02:19] Mr. Ty Rose. Ty, how you doing today, bro? [02:21] Great. It's good to see you. Good to see you too, man. There's a lot I want to get into [02:26] I'm a huge fan of the work that you do, but I'm an even bigger fan of your journey, bro. And you have a story. [02:34] that only five rows can tell. And I'm so proud of you, man. And, you know, I always start my conversations with my guests. [02:42] by asking them what is there because. [02:44] that thing that's deeper than your why that's your true accountability and it changes over time so if i were to say ty rose today 2026 what is your because why do you keep doing the things that you yeah that's i love this about what you do and it's made me think deeper than why you know as you taught us the you know it's funny i'd like to think that it's different than it's been but but actually my because that still animates me it's blossomed and grown [03:10] But it really came back to this moment in Layton, Utah, in a hospital room when I held my son for the very first time. And, you know, I was 19. I probably don't recommend that as a starting point. You know, you'd mentioned I have a GED. I didn't even have that yet. I had been kicked out of high school with a 0.9 GPA. I had had a string of minimum wage jobs.

[03:35] And... [03:36] Here I am sitting there and they hand me, [03:39] My son, Austin, is his name. [03:41] And I just realized, you know, it was one thing to mess up your own life. It's very different when you realize the responsibility you had to this, this person that didn't ask to be born, right. And, you know, the reason this became important to me is it kicked off, I didn't necessarily believe in myself then, but I knew I had to do right by my son. And [04:01] So that became a really powerful because for me. And, you know, since then, and we can talk about that journey, really, that because led to a series of other becauses along the way. So, you know, here I am. [04:14] I had had 10 minimum wage jobs in two years. Everybody was frustrated with me. I knew something had to change. And I decided I'd get my GED and I would try my hand at college, which is kind of funny. [04:26] since, you know, high school, literally 0.9 GPA. [04:30] Like I didn't even get socially promoted, right? Like this was so bad. And, um, yeah. [04:36] You know, my dad told me, hey, look, he said, I think you're really smart, but you have to be motivated. He's like, when you're not motivated, you're just not very good, which is so true. Like if I'm passionate. [04:47] I'm on fire and I'm as good as anybody, but the second I'm not, it's really hard. And so I decided, okay, I'm going to go to college. And I went to Weber State University in Ogden, Utah. That's where Dame Lillard went. That's our only claim to fame. And... [05:01] I knew that what I had done before hadn't worked, trying to learn the way everybody told me people were supposed to learn. And I really recognized there was something different about me and I needed to embrace that. And I was doing okay. And there was this really defining moment for me, which unlocked another because. And it was this. So I'm sitting in a really large auditorium for a history class, which I tried to avoid. That kind of setup didn't work so well for me.

[05:28] And I was complaining to my friend, Steve, about it, that, you know, this was not a good setup. And he says, he goes, well, this is nothing compared to what I got myself into in the honors program. And I was like, I don't even know what that is. And he said, oh, it's so bad. He said, there aren't big auditoriums. They're just like 10 people in a class. And I was like, that's interesting. And he said, there are no tests. You just write stuff. That's interesting, too. And then he goes, I don't even think there are right answers. All we do is argue all the time. And I was like, this sounds amazing. [05:58] Like I didn't never in a millionaire thought that, [06:02] It could be that way, that learning could be. And so I immediately bolted up to the honors program. It was at the top of the hill, had its own little second floor of the library. And I went in and I said, I want to see the director of the program. And the secretary, who's one of the most important people in my life and gave me a new because, her name was Marilyn Diamond. [06:20] And she said, okay, let me get you in. And I sit down with the director of the honors program and I said, I want to be in the program. And he said, that's great. Just a few questions. He said, what was your high school GPA? And there's no kidding. I said, okay. [06:33] Point nine. [06:34] And his response was, what point nine? Like I left off the most important part. And I said, oh, and he was really nice about it. He said, you know, I'm sorry, you can't be in the honors program. You know, I was so mortified. [06:48] I grabbed my stuff and I was just as fast as I could get out of there and go crawl in a hole. And as I'm walking out of his office, Marilyn Diamond, her desk was right next to the door. And I'm walking past [06:58] And she reached out and grabbed my arm. And she said, listen, I overheard the conversation. If you want this, don't take no for an answer.

[07:05] And I was like, wait, you can do that? And she said, sit on that couch and don't leave until he lets you in. So I did for a few hours. [07:13] Finally, he called me back in and he said, you know, look, why do you want to be an honors program? Like on paper, it makes no sense. And I started explaining that I'd learned a lot about myself. [07:22] in the first year or so I was there and I knew what it took for me to do well. And this all seemed to be a perfect environment. And he said, okay, [07:31] I'm going to let you in on a provisional basis. And he said, you take one class, and if you do well, you can take another and another. [07:36] Flash forward, I ended up graduating as the honor student of the year three years later with a 3.97 GPA. And I had just gotten into Harvard for my doctorate. And I shared this because it [07:47] it taught me something really important that became not just personal, it's still personal because, but is driving everything I've done since, which was I was still the same kid. So the kid that had done so poorly, it taught me two things. [08:02] one, the incredible value of fit, right? So we tend to think I try something once I don't do well, I'm not good enough at it. That's not what I'm like, your strategy could be wrong, it could be the wrong environment. But getting that fit between you and your environment is so important. And things get a lot easier when you get that fit. The second thing was, you know, I had sort of thought about talent and potential as almost like this thing I do, there's something inside me. And if I work hard enough, it'll come out, it'll be fine. What it taught me and I have [08:32] a dozen other stories just like it was, yeah, you got to work really hard, but there's a role for other people in your success that is so important. And again, it doesn't negate that I worked hard. I did. But Marilyn Diamond, you know, she changed my life. And here's what's really funny. Just a couple of years ago, Weber State invited me back and gave me an honor. Like, hey, look, you did good. And I'm sitting there in this auditorium, I'm speaking to all these people. And I found out

[09:02] What a great chance to really acknowledge the role she's played. So I told the crowd some version of the story I just told you. And the president of the university says, Marilyn, why don't you come up and say a few words? [09:13] She comes up, she's short, she adjusts the mic and she says, you know, Todd, it's good to see you. I have to admit, I don't remember this. And I thought, [09:20] I thought she was saying I was lying or something. And I was like, oh, it happened. She goes, no, I believe it happened. I just don't remember it. Well, it turns out everybody had a Marilyn Diamond story because that's the kind of person she was. [09:30] And it really dawned on me [09:32] that when it comes to our role in other people's lives, we tend to think that it's going to be some Herculean effort. [09:38] Right. Like, like when in reality, this thing that was life changing for me was so inconsequential, she didn't even remember it. And, you know, so when we think about what what it means to develop our fullest potential, make our best contributions to society, succeed, you know, there's, [09:55] does involve other people. And we can be that for other people as well. And that story, hearing you say it in that, just I've heard it before, but I've never heard it one directly from you, [10:04] and the detail that he gave is so touching, man, because, you know, one of the things that I heard in that story is keep going. [10:12] What happens, you got to keep going. [10:15] But there's a couple of things I want to unplug because you and I have so many similarities in what we talk to business leaders about. [10:22] And I want to start with this one right here. I think as leaders, a lot of times we ask our team members to do too much because of what the title says, right? Yeah. And when there's a title...

[10:34] And I don't care how big the title is. It could be a small title. But we like to encompass a lot of responsibilities into one human. And we forget the gift or the actual skill set that was why we hired them or why we have them a part of the team in the first place. I'd love to get your take on that. [10:52] because I've heard you talk about it, but a lot of times I'm going to use salespeople as an example, right? [10:57] We've got a salesperson or salespeople that are killing it. [11:01] But then we want them to do admin work. We ask them to do things that aren't sales. And so then when they struggle, it's like, well, what do they struggle with? And it has nothing to do with sales, right? It's all the other things. Or we have people that we don't have sales roles. And I hate when people say, but everybody sells. But whatever, then pay them to do that or hire them for that specific thing. When they don't do that, it's not there. Or we have people that are... [11:25] to do research and development. [11:27] But we also want them to do two or three things. [11:30] And that dilutes who they actually are. And a lot of times forces people to leave. So I'd really get to know that. [11:36] Listen, I'll just say amen to that. And I'll just. [11:39] pushed out on that a little bit. Like they, they, it, [11:42] It's kind of remarkable, right? So first of all, you know, my professional background early when I was a professor was in the methodologies that study science at an individual level. So things that give rise to like personalized medicine, personalized learning, personalized nutrition. [11:56] And when we start looking at individuals instead of groups of individuals, [12:00] what we find is this really cool idea. It's called the jaggedness principle, which is human beings are multidimensional, right? Makes sense. Like take body size. Size is not one dimension, right? Height, weight, weight.

[12:12] chest circumference, whatever. Same is true cognitively, all this stuff. And what we look at is we tend to think with body size. Well, there's a small, medium, large, extra large, as if it just scales up. It's not how it works. [12:23] It's remarkable. So everyone's jagged. That is, they're going to be on the high end on some things, on the low end on others, and in the middle on some things, every single human being. And the reason this is really important is the best, if I were king for a day, the best possible thing I would tell a leader to put people in positions where they're really going to thrive and contribute is if you could, I still believe in, you know, division of labor, great, and specialization. But you really got to do two things. One, where's your comparative advantage, right? [12:53] thing because of my jaggedness. Two, I have to care about it. If I don't care, like, as you know, like, listen, I will tell you, like, if you can have all the talent in the world that you don't care about the work you're doing, it's not meaningful to you. There's only so far you're going to get. [13:07] But what's so funny is this idea of like job titles and job descriptions is a relic of the age of standardization, where we thought first about like literally like Frederick Taylor is the guy that really implemented all this in society in the 1980s. [13:20] And we're still living in his shadow today, where he really saw, he said, forget about talent. We just want people to be able to be interchangeable parts. And he really meant that, like he just plugged people in. And so in that case, the job description became everything and you just kind of wedged people in. [13:35] Well, when you realize and take into account human jaggedness and the fact that everybody can be excellent at something, but no one's excellent at everything, you get people into that space where it's like, to your example, they might be like the best salesperson that you have. And for whatever reason, you put more on their plate and doing things that at best, they're mediocre.

[13:55] And at worst, it's literally draining the passion that they have. And then they end up exiting and you get into this sort of like treadmill of like hire rehire. [14:05] And it's just, it's wild. You know, my dad, who just retired, [14:10] He designed airbags for a living. One of the, one literally has so many patents in that space to save so many people's lives. The president of the auto leave, which was the airbag company told me personally, if it weren't for my dad's inventions in this razor thin margin industry, they might be out of business. Okay. [14:25] Awesome. Congratulations. He loves it. [14:28] Like he was built to be an engineer in this space. Well, as everything's succeeding and he's like, of course, I'd like to make a little more money and be recognized. And they're like, well, the only way you can do that is you have to get on the management track. And I'm like, listen, I love my dad. He would be a terrible manager, right? He just wants to get the job done. He doesn't want to deal with people [14:45] And it's like, you structured something where the only way they can be acknowledged and rewarded for their contributions is to change what it is they're doing. [14:54] Like it makes, does it now to their credit, they made one carve out. My dad's name's Larry. They gave him the Larry carve out. So they let him have this path of an engineering path. And I'm like, what, why would that be specific to him? Like, [15:05] Let people do what they are good at and passionate about, and everybody's better off. [15:10] Yeah. Amazing, man. Totally amazing. And another thing that I've learned directly from you, and it's weird because I've been, I have this concept that I call get out of your bed, right? And it's B-E-D, the beliefs, the excuses, the decisions that limit you from becoming the best person. And then I got introduced to this book.

[15:30] called Collective Illusion. And I sat there and said, not that it validated my thoughts on beliefs, excuses, and decisions, [15:39] But it gave me a deeper way to look at how we do those exact things. And so I want to give you the floor to talk about collective illusions. You know, what was the framework that said, yep, I need to do this book and this is the book now. And then let's get into it a little bit, man, because... [15:56] changed my life. Well, so I didn't like it was not on my bingo card to be in this, this network. I just follow the things that matter to me. You know, it a couple of things that I care deeply about, [16:07] that might qualify as my because now. [16:10] I, because of my own journey, and look, I've been at the very bottom, academically, I've been arguably at the top. And what I realized is, [16:18] All along the way, there were people with unbelievable potential. [16:22] And, you know, for some lucky breaks or whatever, and he just realized we had a system that, [16:28] that not only didn't try to cultivate it, it just didn't care, right? It was about selection rather than development of people. And in my wonky beliefs, like as an academic, I care a lot about positive sum systems, right? So we treat the world like a zero sum, like for me to win, you have to lose. And it's just not true. It's not true. The pie can grow, not just materially, but also psychologically, right? Like my thriving can benefit you and your thriving can benefit me. [16:58] obsessed with like, okay, how do we create the conditions for that kind of positive sum society? And it was funny, it was in before the 2016 election,

[17:07] Like we were, we're going to stop and realize, [17:10] oh, wow, hold on. We thought we were doing like polling to try to understand where people were. And then it was like, what just happened? Like nobody saw this coming. And we realized what was like, what's going on? So we started digging in. And it turned out that people just didn't feel comfortable being honest about their views. And it was shocking. Like, in fact, [17:28] To this day, like right now, just a couple of months ago, our last stuff we did, two thirds of Americans right now admit to self silencing, that they are not telling the truth. And every single demographic group in the country is outright lying on multiple issues that matter in ways that distort fundamentally what we think those groups believe. So we were digging in and we're like, wait, why would people say things they don't? [17:50] agree with and my background is in neuroscience and psychology and i was like okay so there's group think [17:55] But like, so we thought, well, maybe that's it. Maybe they're just going along. But they kept agreeing to things publicly. And I was like, that's weird. And so we started asking a simple question in everything we were doing with polling back then. We said, what do you think most other people would say to this question? And that was a simple unlock because we had all the data on what people really believed. [18:18] And then, [18:19] They kept saying, well, I don't think anyone else agrees with this. I was like, you're just spectacularly wrong. So here's what it is. [18:26] Collective illusions are simply groupthink, but you're wrong about the group. If you can imagine that, right? Groupthink's bad enough. They don't just go along with the crowd to go along. But that's even if the crowd is right and you're just changing your mind. So collective illusions happen where whole groups of people end up going along with something they don't personally agree with just because they incorrectly think that most everybody else agrees with it. So therefore, groupthink, but you're wrong about the group. And you might think, like, this would be kind of rare. Like, how often does this happen?

[18:56] Because of social media, it's just... [18:58] Everywhere. [18:59] everywhere. Like our, my think tank populace is most famous now for this private opinion research, right? That can get around the distortions of social pressure. It's, it's just wild. Like you name anything that matters in this country right now, it's a coin toss, whether you're even right about what most Americans believe. Yeah. Yeah. And isn't it crazy when you really break that down? What I appreciate about collective illusion is, [19:23] is [19:24] While you talk theory, there's a lot of research that backs up the things that you were actually countering a little bit, right? So, again, it's why I love it. I'm a research and history nut anyway. So there are a few things in there I'm like. [19:37] Dang it! [19:38] Why didn't I think of that? Right. So give us a couple examples of some of these collective illusions that we've had past recent whatever. So I'll give you a couple of recently, one that was pretty politically charged and then one that's not, I think, is more important. [19:52] And we could spend... [19:54] all day talking about these. It's unfortunately, they're just all over the place. But so, [19:58] Remember the defund the police movement? Whatever... [20:01] true injustices that they're addressing. The idea that you're going to [20:05] essentially defund the police. There was its peak on that. [20:08] And in 2020, over 60% of Democrats publicly said that they supported defunding the police. We had private opinion data on it that showed it was never more than 9%. [20:19] There's nothing like the American Express Platinum Card. Find out your welcome offer after you apply, which could be as high as 175,000 points. Learn more and find out your offer at americanexpress.com slash explore dash platinum. Terms apply.

[20:34] Okay. [20:35] This is a big problem because, and this is the problem with collective illusions, is you think they're sort of harmless. Well, I'm just going to say what I think I'm supposed to say so I stay with my group. Well, okay, except for politicians implemented policies in places like San Francisco and Seattle and everything because they thought that's what people wanted. And those were disastrous, not just in my opinion. They've since rolled back those policies, right? And it's like it's bad enough when you get sort of bad policies because people actually wanted them. [21:05] right? You just thought this is what you were supposed to say. [21:08] Okay, but here's a more, like, I think a more profound one. [21:12] is the biggest collective illusions we've ever identified have to do with success, what a successful life is. And if you think about it, what's really more important than the kind of life you aspire to, right, that you want to live? So we did the largest private opinion study ever on how people define a successful life. [21:31] And the thing that I'm really proud of on this research, and it's all available on our website, you're going to see it, is with success, you can't have everything. It's always a tradeoff, right? And so we studied, we used a methodology called conjoint, which is really cool. It forces real world tradeoffs. And it's... [21:47] It's impossible to game. And so I can get for you what your tradeoff priorities are for a successful life. [21:53] And we studied over 65 of these things, everything from being the richest person you know to having a family, everything in between. Here's what's crazy. When we have them do the private opinion instrument for themselves, and then we say after each question,

[22:06] We say, what do you think most people would say? Right. So we're building a model of what they think everybody cares about and what they really do. So this was wild. The number one thing that people think that most other people care about for success is being famous. Right. [22:22] Kind of tracks in private. It is dead last, dead last. And instead, when you look at what people privately aspire to, the number one thing they actually care about is doing work that has a positive influence on other people. They want to contribute. [22:37] Like that's number one for the life they want to live. The other things that really blew my mind in the top 10 for every demographic are all character related things. They're relationships. [22:47] And this one blew my mind. Every single demographic has in their top 10, [22:52] wanting to be actively involved in their community. Wow, I never know they're not getting it. And in fact, we measured achievement on these things. Like how you doing? Right? Turns out being involved in your community is the lowest achieved of any top 10 priority. There's no kidding. More people in our study reported being debt free than involved in their community at the level they want to be like. So here we have this, we have this American public across demographics, including young, [23:22] to live lives of meaning and purpose and contribution. [23:26] and they're not getting it, right? And what they think, well, what do they think society cares about? Fame, fortune, power. And so it's fine. Like, I love what I do. And I also like the fact that something I did mattered to you, right? It's nothing wrong with wanting other people to see you as successful. Nothing wrong at all. But you can see the slippery slope where I can either do the thing I care about and then hope people acknowledge it. Or if I think, listen, I think everyone else cares about fame. So if I chase fame,

[23:56] will think I'm successful. And this is, as you know, this is a dead end, because we look at our research, and we also study how people think about their lives, like life satisfaction, achieving on your own private priorities is the fastest way to having much higher life satisfaction. Like it's incredible. No amount of achievement on things that other people cared about increases life satisfaction at all. So that's it. So for me, it's like, there are literally we found these collective illusions on almost 100 different issues so far. [24:24] This one around success to me matters most because as we start to corrupt the choices we make about the lives we live, it's a dead end for us. It's the fastest way to like being miserable and resentful and things like that. And meanwhile, we don't want to do it. And so as we get back to who we really are and we try to reclaim some of that authenticity that's the kryptonite of collective illusions, it's like I have a lot of hope for us individually and collectively as a people. Dude, you've blown my mind. [24:54] man that like you can't put down when you get into it and that's what I love again [24:59] the research aspect of it, you know, we were talking about, [25:02] early education, [25:04] when we started this. And one of the things that I did uniquely different [25:08] with my children was have the conversation [25:12] about research and debate more than you actually do work. A lot of parents, as my kids were growing up, they were like, well, why are you doing that? Or why is that something that you do? And I said, well, one, I didn't have the internet when I was a kid.

[25:26] So it was one of those things where when somebody told you something, it was the same thing they told your parents and maybe even your grandparents. Right. And so it was just kind of like there was no growth for what we were doing. Like, I want my kids to be smarter, more educated than I was. And I was an honor student. Right. But it was. [25:45] What I learned was when I debated, [25:47] When I had been there, [25:48] I cared more and I researched more and I could argue points better. And I remember things more. [25:55] To me, that's what Collective Illusions takes me back to. It's... [26:00] hey, I'm going to argue, I'm going to debate, but I'm going to do it with stats versus stats. [26:06] Okay. [26:07] Right. [26:08] I love what you're bringing up here, because if you think about it, how far ahead you were on this, because if I were thinking about what it means to prepare kids for an age where AI, I know we're sick of talking about it everywhere, but like, it will be the new operating system for society. And it is, it is an answer machine, right? It's, [26:24] You know, search was search. Now it's not, it's answers. And it, like, we've trained generations of kids in school to be answer machines. Like, there's a right answer, learn how to say it. [26:35] And, you know, you see some of the most worst excess of that in higher ed right now, where they don't even know how to debate. They just know that there's a right thing to say and then they're just stuck. But like, I would say the single most important thing to prepare a kid would be exactly what you did. Because, you know, you're not going to be able to debate. [26:48] Like we're going to go through some really interesting times. And the people that can actually think for themselves, argue constructively are going to grow and they're going to surf this wave. And if you're one of those answer machines, you are going to get crushed by it. It is going to be really tough. Yeah, totally agree, man. Totally agree. Well.

[27:06] Todd, dude, I could talk with you forever. We didn't even talk about the Patriots, bro. Because we're going to have. [27:13] going to have our own podcast. [27:15] Yes. [27:16] This is after dark. [27:18] Patriots After Dark. [27:20] Patriots have the dark. I will have bourbon because it will be dark time and I'm allowed to have bourbon when it's dark. Listen, no kidding. Coming back from the Super Bowl, my buddy and I were like, what are we going to do? This was awful. We pulled in and literally went and got High West bourbon. [27:35] and just drown our sorrows right after the game. [27:40] So much that we have in common, Todd. Like, I don't know how we haven't hanged out a... [27:45] Like, we're going to remedy that. [27:47] We got to hang out. Absolutely. One of the things I want to do, Todd, and I do this, especially with authors that I love and books that I love. And it's become like a popular part of my show, apparently, because I get more I get more DMs when I do this than anything in the world. So [28:03] If you DM me collective, and if you can spell it right, you get bonus coins. [28:08] The first 25. [28:09] I'm going to go ahead when this recording is over. I'm going to order 20 copies of the book. [28:15] and I'm going to send out [28:17] that copy to the first 20 people that messaged me collectively. [28:20] As always, if you're number 21, I apologize, but you can go get it yourself. [28:25] Because you could, and Todd, for number 21 through 2,000, where can they get their copy of it? [28:31] Amazon is there. [28:32] is everything, right? It's... [28:34] I was just told it's been a funny thing because the book came out. It's been a few years now, but...

[28:40] it sort of now... [28:41] has provided answers to some of the things we've been watching the way social media distorts what kids think like some of the problems everything from you know a lot of the problems in the world and so [28:52] It's, it just had another spike. It got sold out, but I was just told that there's more in stock now. So that's good. All right. So 21 through 22. [29:00] 20,000. [29:01] You got to go to Amazon. Collective illusions. But the first 20 that messaged me collective, I've gotten covered. [29:08] I'm going to get you out of here on my rapid fire quick five questions. Ready? I'm ready. All right. [29:13] What's one non-negotiable ritual thing [29:17] that you have [29:19] on a daily, weekly basis? Like, what's one non-negotiable photographer? [29:22] So this is going to sound really nerdy, but it's been really important to me. [29:26] So I, [29:27] I am obsessed with organization because I'm not a very organized person, like innately. And so I am very faithful to David Allen's getting things done. And I use these organizational systems. And what I found is, as the [29:40] You know, working on a million projects, things like that, and people want your time. Every single morning, I spend the first 15 minutes deciding what my priorities are, because if I don't, then it's last in first out. And I'll go for days and think, what have I actually accomplished? [29:57] And so just making sure I have a clear set of priorities in my own head about things that matter to me, allow me to navigate. [30:03] my professional world important. And I will say on a personal level, I've learned through some tough experiences in my own life, do not take for granted the people that love you. And so the second thing I do is I decide I want to let somebody in my life know in a very concrete way, why I'm grateful for them. And so I try to tee that up. And I'm not as good at that. I'll be honest, I try to do that at least a couple times a week.

[30:25] But that sense of forcing myself to not just feel the gratitude, although you do have to kind of, it's hard sometimes, but acknowledge it. And, you know, we just go so long taking for granted the people in our lives that matter. And we think, well, of course they know, but they don't always know. And even if they do, it's great to hear. There it is. I like it. I like it. I'm going to ask this one differently. If you could master one new skill, what would that be? It doesn't have to be realistic. Listen, I want to throw the football like Drake May. [30:55] I'm just saying, like, I know it's all on the hips, you know, but... [30:59] I watched him on his college clip where he threw a ball almost 80 yards and hit the crossbar. [31:06] I was like, how do... [31:08] It's unbelievable. I know that's a kind of lame one, but it's like I am so in awe of peak excellence of any kind. [31:16] Yeah. [31:17] and make [31:17] former target by the way just incredible [31:20] Absolutely. Absolutely. [31:22] So speaking of Patriots, we both appreciate guys. You can't say Tom Brady. [31:26] Who is your next favorite Patriot of all time? So I won't say Tom Brady now that he said he didn't have a dog in the fight for the Super Bowl. I mean, come on, man. Of course you do. So I got to be honest, and this is an easy one, but I love me some Randy Moss. Just watching what happened, you know, and he's just incredible. And, you know, there's another funny thing I'll tell you real quick. [31:49] is, you know, I've gotten to be a guy I really love, Damar Hamlin, plays for the Buffalo Bills. [31:55] And when we signed Stefan Diggs, I was like, oh, he's got a bad reputation, da, da, da. And DeMar had played with him in Buffalo. He said, this is not true.

[32:03] Like he has, he has a high level of demanding excellence of himself and of other people, but he is a leader. And sure enough, he just, he really added so much to the Patriots and it taught me, you know, it's like, [32:16] Yeah, just again, that don't judge a book by its cover. You know what I mean? You just someone you think they have a reputation. It's like, it turns out a lot of guys around didn't want to work. [32:24] And so Diggs is really high up there for me right now. I like it. I like it. I like both of those answers. That's really cool. What is one leadership myth that you wish would disappear? I think that so often we think great leaders. It's like almost like you're this top-down control sergeant that somehow I'm the puppet master. I can move people around places rather than every time I've been around a truly great leader, they inspire and they empower. [32:54] something, they get me to see why I want to do the thing. [32:57] that they're telling me. And, you know, let's go back to the Patriots. I literally think this is why, I mean, what Mike Rabel has built from a culture standpoint, and as a leader, I mean, this is a team that had four wins last year, as you know, and four, [33:09] And four wins the year before. And in one year, yeah, we got some lucky breaks, whatever, but you are a Super Bowl team runner-off, barely. But the point is, it was culture, and it was leadership. And he got those guys to buy into what he was selling. But look, as a coach, he could dangle playing time over their head. He could do whatever. But he inspired and he empowered, and it was remarkable. And I think there's a lesson in there in terms of what real leadership's like. Totally agree. Totally agree. Last question for you, Todd.

[33:39] the story of Todd Rose is being written. What's one word you want to define that story? You know, I would hope it would be optimism that [33:47] Like life is life can be hard for everybody. We all face challenges. But if you're willing to to work hard and you're willing to learn and have some humility, it's pretty remarkable what we're capable of as people. [34:02] And, you know, I feel like, you know, so much of my life, I could have just called it. [34:07] been like, well, and I could have made excuses or whatever. And look, I can have a pity party with the best of them. So I'm not pretending that I don't. But, but, you know, I'm, I'm, [34:17] I just don't see much benefit in complaining all the time. Either you can do something about it or you can't. If you can't, then why are you complaining? And if you can, then do something about it. And when we start thinking about getting back to building and contributing, I just think we've got a great future ahead of us. Right now, it seems a little dim, but I'm... [34:34] I'm all in on us as a people. [34:36] And I think that, so I would hope that when people listen to me, [34:40] I don't want to share false hope, but I do believe there's a realistic optimism about our own lives and about the future of the country. Amazing, Bob. Amazing. Todd, again, I'm honored to have shared some time with you today. We definitely need to do... [34:53] This, again, sometime in person, Meg, because there's a lot we need to talk about. [34:58] You just, you tell me, tell me when, and I'm there and I will bring the bourbon. [35:02] Done deal. Listen, listen, I mean, I'm going to take it one step further. Let's find a time to get together. Maybe even do another round on this in person and I'll get some pappy.

[35:11] And we'll do some, I'll bring the Pappy Van Winkle. [35:14] And the glasses. There you go. I love it. It's a deal. [35:18] So Todd, where can people find and follow you? [35:20] You know, you could just [35:22] On social media, it's on all the platforms. I go by it's LToddRose because... [35:27] My parents named me Larry and never, never intended to call me that. So it's Tyco by my middle name or just toddrose.com is easy. Amazing. I'll have links to all of that. And the show knows this has been an amazing episode. Make sure you go back and re-listen to this one because Todd gave so many nuggets. [35:42] Throughout this episode, it was really a masterclass. So to all the viewers and listeners, remember, you'll be called us. [35:47] is your superpower. Go Unleash It. That's another powerful conversation on Mick Unplugged. If this episode moved you, and I'm sure it did, follow the show wherever you listen, share it with someone who needs that spark, and leave a review so more people can find their because. I'm Rudy Rush, and until next time, stay driven, stay focused, and stay unplugged.