Can Wemby’s Spurs Shake Off a True Gut Punch? Plus: Adam Friedland on NYC Coming Alive, Trump at MSG, and the World Cup.

[00:00] For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. [00:07] Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required. [00:30] of Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. Call [redacted phone] to learn more or visit TrimphiaRadio.com. [01:01] . [01:06] This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by PayPal. [01:09] You know a clutch move when you see one? A no-look pass, a buzzer beater, a big steal? Well, imagine if your wallet [01:16] could pull off moves like that. [01:18] That, my friends, is PayPal. Right now, you can find offers from hundreds of brands like Sony, Allbirds, and Viator. [01:25] Save offers before you check out. [01:27] earn unlimited rewards. Plus you can add those rewards on top of credit card points,

[01:32] Now that is clutch. Download the PayPal app today. [01:36] Save those offers, start scoring rewards. Terms and exclusions apply. See paypal.com slash rewards terms, credit card points subject to issuers. [01:46] terms and conditions. [01:48] all right we're coming to you live on netflix between [02:18] in Game 3 of the NBA Finals. Adam Friedland coming up in a little bit. First time he's ever been on the BS Podcast. I'm excited to talk to him. [02:27] I have a bunch of random reactions coming off game two, heading into the rest of this series. And because... [02:32] I'm an experienced professional who's had a podcast for over 20 years. I feel like I can do this on the fly. I wrote down a bunch of stuff. First of all, [02:40] Um, [02:41] Most incredible Knicks playoff win. [02:44] Game two. [02:44] since LJ's four point play. Um, [02:47] Brunson goes seven for 25 for 20 points. [02:51] And they still win. [02:52] They don't get a single call for 90 minutes other than a challenge that they challenged and won the challenge to get the OG3. [03:00] They still win. [03:01] They blow a 14-point lead in the last six minutes of game two. They still win.

[03:07] They have Towns absolutely destroying Wemby in the first half of the game to the point that at halftime, [03:14] Shaq and Kenny had to do like a long mea culpa. I was right there with them. Uh, [03:19] to cement his sudden arrival as one of the 12 most important guys in the league. We will talk about that a little bit later. [03:25] Yeah, Bridges leaving his own body and officially making everybody who's ever criticized the [03:31] what they gave up in that Nets trade. [03:33] myself included in the last year, just because they gave up all the assets they would have needed to get Giannis. But who needs Giannis now? You're two wins away from the title. [03:40] So you had this incredible bridges game. [03:42] And then you had Wemby, [03:44] Closing. [03:46] with a really horrific three-point air ball that got lost in what happened next. A horrible two-for-one, follow-away, 22-footer. The Spurs did two things in the last 40 seconds of this game that I hate. [03:59] One is we got to get a two for one and you end up getting a terrible shot. I'd rather just get one awesome shot. [04:05] And then the foul to give I just have always hated. [04:08] And they did the foul to give, which, of course, when one B fouls Brunson with 10 seconds left, you have no foul to give. And suddenly he's shooting free throws. You have an all-time iconic... [04:18] People screaming out loud as it's happening, bad turnover with Wemby, which we'll get to in a second. You've already heard people talk about it for two days. I have some additional thoughts. And then you have a wide open 18 foot miss. [04:30] from a 22-year-old guy that was actually a really good shot. [04:34] The question is whether that's the right play and the right moment for somebody like that who's been kind of skidding backwards in the last two minutes of the game.

[04:43] But the castle play. [04:45] Throwing the ball off his back, I think was the closest... [04:49] we've seen in the NBA to the Chris Webber timeout play in college against North Carolina for a bunch of reasons. One, [04:57] The coach is standing next to Wemby. [05:00] And he's doing this. He's telling him to go to push it because he doesn't want to call a timeout to set up a play. [05:06] I don't know why he was so excited to have his 7'7 center dribbling the ball up with 10 seconds left in a must-win game. I probably would have rethought that. There's a great angle of Wemby from the other side, and he's got both of his point guards to his right. [05:20] Doesn't even look at him. [05:21] Looks forward. Castle... [05:24] I'm torn on this because I think Castle thinks Wemby's going to take the ball down, which he's done in the past. So he's starting to put his head down and run. [05:32] But I also feel like if you're a real point guard, [05:35] You want the ball. [05:36] You're going to come to the ball. You're ready for the ball. And Castle's, you know, he's a guard. He's not a real point guard. If that's Fox or Harper, they're turning around. They're trying to get the ball from Wembley because they want the car keys in that moment. [05:48] And it was just, just an absolute clusterfuck. And, um, [05:53] I kind of couldn't believe it as it was happening. It was, I think, one of the all-timers for an, oh, no! [06:00] And everybody had that reaction. There were great reactions that people captured all over the place. But when I think about you throw that play in and then how the game ended and just blowing an incredible comeback, the most damaging, non-clinching.

[06:15] non-injury finals of the last 50 years. So we're removing all the game sevens. We're removing stuff like Halliburton last year against OKC, because that's probably number one, like losing your best guy in a game seven. [06:26] Um, [06:27] I went to the J.R. Smith game in 2018, which was another, oh, no. [06:31] Um, [06:32] where they get the rebound and just, okay. And you couldn't even believe it as it was happening. The Ray Allen shot game six, 2013 against Miami. I was at that game too. The crazy Celtics game four comeback in 2008. [06:48] Um, [06:49] The totality of coming back from 24 and then feeling like they completely broke the Lakers at the end. [06:55] Wade Salvatore, Game 5, [06:57] Miami-Dallas 2006. [07:00] Now, we've blended Game 3 and Game 5 together in our heads and just thought Miami got all the calls for both of those games. And they did get a lot of calls in Game 3. [07:09] Game three was a much better game And also had I think Dirk missed a big free throw at one point But the Heat climbed back A lot of people were involved It was just more of a traditional awesome comeback [07:21] Game five... [07:23] was pretty awful in the moment and culminated in, [07:27] Miami winning and Cuban doing the thing where he just stared at David Stern from the court. He was so angry. [07:33] I wrote a very upset column about after that game that was pretty egregious, and you just felt like... [07:40] He felt like Dallas was done after that game. The Nick Anderson game, which a lot of people brought up in 1995, is another one. The four missed free throws.

[07:47] Thank you. [07:48] I see the comparisons with the 95 Magic and this Spurs team and what happened, but you can't really compare – [07:56] those two games for this reason. The Magic had the game. It was over. [08:01] And he missed four straight free throws. And three and four were like, you're watching somebody's career flash before their eyes. [08:09] And when he missed it, then it goes in an OT, I think. And then they end up losing... [08:13] Um, [08:15] But that was much more of a, we had it, oh my God, I can't believe we blew this game. [08:20] Whereas the Spurs game, they clawed back. They almost won. They had to make a couple... [08:24] plays, stops. It was a back and forth game. And even though it was devastating, trust me, it was not like the Nick Anderson game. Isaiah's sprained ankle in 1988 where the Pistons are up 3-2. They're better than the Lakers that year. Isaiah gets hurt, still has a 25 in the [08:41] they end up blowing it late. [08:43] Magic Junior Skyhook, I was at this game, 1987, game four. Seltzer up six with two minutes left, and it just becomes an operatic collapse culminating in the Junior Skyhook. And then Bird... [08:57] Missing, which we captured in the Celtic City documentary, Bird Missing, the three-pointer to win it by... [09:02] about one one hundredth of an inch. That was the most devastated I've been after a game. [09:06] And then Henderson's steal in game two of the 1984 finals. The Lakers are going to finish off the Celtics and probably sweep or win in five. And then Worthy throws it to Henderson, goes into overtime. So that from the last 50 years, those are the worst ones. And I really do think that game two...

[09:24] with the Spurs is on that list. [09:26] Because having your best guy and the guy who's supposed to be the next guy, like LeBron in 2007 was 22 and he made the finals. [09:33] They just got their ass kicked. Nobody remembers a single thing about that finals. There wasn't anything you could really hang on LeBron and be like, oh, that play. Um, [09:41] Wemby is just about [09:44] the best player ever, [09:46] to have, um, [09:48] Like a really dopey play like that happened to him. [09:51] And we'll see how he responds over the next couple of weeks. [09:55] couple games but that was about as bad as it gets for a great player um [10:00] And I think... [10:02] If I'm doing blame pie, Castle 20% for just turning around and running forward. I'm just trying to get the ball from my center. Mitch Johnson, at least 50% for not calling a timeout. And then Wemby, [10:14] who I just think brain farted and kind of panicked when he should have been like, where... [10:19] Where's Harper and where's Fox? Those are the two guys that need to get the ball to. [10:25] So I put him at like 30 to 35%. That's probably too much blame pie. That might've been 105% of a blame pie, whatever. Um, [10:33] Here's another thing that came out of this game that I was... [10:36] Stand by... [10:38] Even that night, as I was thinking about it, the Spurs... [10:41] have five [10:43] Of the worst playoff losses. And I think their five... [10:46] is worse than anyone else's five. They lost the Ray Allen shot game, which is the worst loss ever. [10:51] anyone's had in the history of the NBA finals.

[10:55] The Derek Fisher 0.4% [10:57] shot in 2004. [10:59] where, [11:00] The Spurs were just better than the Lakers that year, and that's still a pretty stupid series. And Fisher just getting a jump shot off in four-tenths of the second. [11:09] I don't even know if that's legal by the rules we have now, but... [11:13] That was devastating, especially because Timmy had made a big [11:16] shot right before that to give them the lead. [11:18] That's two. [11:20] Maynu fouling Dirk. [11:22] Up three in the last 20 seconds, game seven, 2006. [11:28] Um, [11:29] And we love Manu, and Manu's a great player, and it was just he was trying to challenge the play. I actually don't think he did the wrong thing, but he fouls Dirk. [11:36] Dirk gets the three-point play, goes into overtime. Dallas wins. [11:40] The Wemby Castle Pass has to be up there. [11:43] And then that famous Rod Strickland 1990 play. I was in college for that one. [11:49] Although I think I was probably out of classes by that point. But that was an all-timer. It throws it over his head backwards. [11:56] And ends up, Portland ends up [12:00] Not only did he turn the ball over by throwing it over his head with like 30 seconds to nobody. [12:05] Portland gets a fast break, which he then hard fouls the guy in the fast break. And I think it ends up being two free throws in the ball. [12:12] So, [12:14] Those five plus, you got to go with the Spurs in 1979 blew a... [12:20] 3-1 lead to the Bullets. And in Game 7... [12:23] Bobby Dandridge kills them with 10 seconds left. Now that wasn't like a,

[12:27] Screw up, but it was a really horrible collapse. We thought George Irvin was going to be in the finals. [12:32] And then Dandridge matches him. I think Girvin had 42. Dandridge had like 35, 37. And he made the big shot with 10 seconds left. [12:40] I think, I put some thought into this. That's the worst five losses. If you're going to, top five worst losses by franchisee, [12:49] Nobody can touch that. [12:50] Ray Allen Fisher. [12:52] Manu Fowley Dirk, the Wimpy Castle Pass, and Rod Strickland. I needed either one or two words to explain each of those moments, and you knew what I was talking about. So... [13:02] Um, [13:03] That part's nuts. [13:05] Another one, Nick's final sweep, which I think was 16 to one. [13:09] on FanDuel. [13:10] before the finals. [13:13] I think would be one of... [13:15] the two craziest outcomes in the history of the finals. [13:18] If you're just talking, I'm not talking about upsets, craziest team that won. I'm just talking about outcome. [13:25] A Knicks sweep, the only thing you can compare to that is 95%. [13:30] the Rockets... [13:32] sweeping Orlando, which I can't remember. I bet on Houston and that is one of my favorite bets I ever made, betting on Houston, that series. I did not have the sweep, I don't think. But – [13:43] But... [13:44] That... [13:45] Pistons in five... [13:47] over the Lakers in 2004. [13:50] I think if you thought the Pistons were going to win that one, you wouldn't have thought it was going to be that decisive. [13:55] And then I think the 91 Bulls beating the Lakers in five would be another one because that was a classic. It was a little like this series actually.

[14:02] Is the young team ready? [14:04] The old team with know-how, veterans, who do you have? I picked the Lakers that series. [14:09] I bet on the Lakers that series. [14:12] And the Bulls 1-5 [14:14] But I would think this is one of the two most shocking outcomes along with the Houston-Rolando sweep. The other thing is, if they win the title... [14:21] I think this becomes our premier NBA example of experience over youth because it used to be the 95 Rockets over the... [14:29] over the Magic, I think it would now flip to this. Because that 95 Magic team did have Brian Shaw, that Horace Grant. It wasn't like this. It was this completely young team. I think the Spurs feel younger to me than that team. [14:41] A writer named Noops Christensen, a mailbag writer, [14:47] Said, I had a thought about Nick Spurs. I present the YMCA test. Imagine if it were the championship game for the best league at your local YMCA. [14:57] Team A has five very talented players, ages 21, 22, 24, 25, and 28. [15:02] They're playing team B, which might be slightly less talented, but still talented. And their players are 28, 29, 29, 31, and 30. [15:10] Are you taking the more talented but younger team A or the veteran team B, the YMCA test? [15:16] I kind of like this. [15:18] There's been some other YMCA battles. I think the... [15:21] A really good one was the 2011 Thunder against the 2011 Mavericks. [15:26] was one of my favorite ones for these. But then you'll have the next year, [15:30] Where the 2012 Thunder, we thought that was another YMCA test series, and they beat the Spurs. So it doesn't always work, but...

[15:37] I did enjoy this. All right, so what do... [15:41] What do the Spurs have to do to flip a series? [15:44] down [15:45] two games. So you can either be down 2-0 or 3-1 in a series. I went back and I looked at all the times [15:51] We've been in this situation in the finals. [15:55] And what you learn... [15:57] is you need some sort of dramatic, karma-changing, momentum-changing something. [16:03] And you don't know what it is. [16:06] It could be as simple as... [16:08] The president decided to go to game three. I'm sorry, too soon. [16:12] 2021 Suns. They won... [16:15] I'm sorry, they... [16:18] Won the first two at home and then blew the series to the Bucks, right? [16:21] Well, what happened in that series? [16:23] Post-COVID, a little weird. That was... [16:27] We're sitting in the stands with [16:28] Some people were in masks. It was just a weird vibe for that whole thing. But Game 5... [16:35] Had one of the craziest sequences. That game's in Phoenix. The series is tied at two after Milwaukee won. They're two at home. [16:42] And then you have that one where Drew Holiday comes flying in, steals the ball from Booker. They get the fast break the other way. And the awesome, crazy, all-time athletic alley-oop to Giannis. [16:54] And it was one of those sequences where you're like, holy shit, Walker's going to win the finals now. [16:58] So that's one. [16:59] But [17:00] 2016 Cavs was the bigger one. That was the Draymond suspension after game four. [17:05] And I've talked about this before, but the Cavs lose game four in

[17:08] at home to Golden State. It's one of the best games of the 2010s. The Warriors are better than them. [17:14] They finish them. And then at the end of the game, LeBron goes Draymond into the technical. And that flips that one. 2006 Heat. [17:23] You have that game three comeback I mentioned earlier where they're down 13-13. [17:28] With six minutes left, the Heat scored 22 points in the last six minutes, and they get Dirk to miss... [17:34] the one and two free throws that in the last 10 seconds that gets him to win it. [17:38] That flips a little, they win game four, and then game five is the Ben Salvatore game. [17:42] And then the 1977 Blazers is the other one. They're down 2-0 to Philly. [17:48] And at the end of that game, [17:51] There's a huge fight. [17:53] with Daryl Dawkins and Maurice Lucas. And Dawkins is so mad after the game that he like destroys the locker room. He feels like the Sixers didn't help him. [18:01] And it kind of fucked the team up. [18:04] So I would say that counts for... [18:06] some sort of momentum shift. There's one time out of all those, so I have the 2021 bucks, 16 calves, 06 heat, 77 blazers, which is your best hope for the Spurs because [18:18] Almost 50 years later, they're very similar to that 77 Blazers team. Young core, Wemby is Bill Walton. Fall down 0-2 in the finals. Everybody thinks the series is over. The 93 Suns. [18:30] Go down 0-2 to the Chicago Bulls. [18:35] They have a crazy game three game. [18:37] That's like one of the last great NBA games, triple overtime.

[18:42] Triple overtime game three and the Suns win. They beat Michael Jordan in Chicago. [18:47] right, feels like they flipped the momentum back. What happens? [18:52] The Bulls have Michael Jordan, and he scores 55 in game four. [18:56] And basically just... [18:57] Says, no way. You're not coming back. [18:59] Um, [19:01] So that's the one time when the momentum shift happened and then the team that was up 2-0 that I could think of. [19:07] step drop so [19:09] How do you flip a series down two games? [19:12] You need something crazy to happen in game three. I don't think it can just be a win. I think it has to be either... [19:18] The Knicks collapse. The vibes are weird. Webby puts up [19:22] A 50-30, something crazy has to happen Monday night for this series to flip. It can't just be, oh, the Spurs played better and they won. [19:30] It's got to be like a tangible flip because no team has ever lost the first two at home and then won the series. So you would need something. [19:37] really dramatic. The goodness for them is they do have [19:40] a really great player, even if he hasn't 100% played like it in the finals so far. Which brings me to Wendy. [19:48] So, I think, [19:50] This is something I remember talking about two years ago with Anthony Edwards after game three. [19:56] of the Dallas series, which was really bad for both him and Towns. And [20:01] on the Sunday night pod was talking about [20:03] There are levels of this with the playoffs, and you don't know it until you're in it. And it's just really hard for... [20:10] Guys, 20, 21, 22, 23, 23.

[20:13] As everything gets harder, as you're seeing the same team, [20:17] you know, [20:17] maybe seven times in two weeks, there's levels to it. [20:22] there's [20:23] ways you get pushed mentally and physically that you've just never dealt with before. And sometimes you can see young players – [20:30] no matter how great they are, [20:32] you can feel it start to break their brain. And it happened a little with Edwards. He did rally back in that Dallas series, and his last two games were pretty good. LeBron, in the 2007 finals, he was 22. He shot 36%, had almost six turnovers a game. [20:48] Tatum, at age 23 in the 22 finals against Golden State, it's a good example. He just really unraveled and [20:54] It was fatigue and how the Warriors were defending him. He shot 37%, but you could feel it in the last few games. You just could feel him losing. [21:03] Losing control of all the stuff that he was so good at. Shaq in the 95 finals just getting killed by Hakeem. [21:09] KD is a good one. He's age 22 in that Dallas series I mentioned, both him and Westbrook. [21:15] She just felt really young in that series. Katie only shot 42% in that series, but Dirk really took it to him. [21:22] An underrated one was Derrick Rose in the 2011 Miami series. [21:27] when it was like, is it too early for Derrick Rose? Like that Miami team was pretty limited. I mean, they basically had the three guys in Haslam. [21:35] Roshad, 35%. Just... [21:37] Just couldn't put it together in that series. The one example of somebody pretty young,

[21:44] that I thought acquitted themselves well and actually – [21:48] I didn't feel at all like they were young, was Luka in that Golden State Series in 2008. [21:54] 22. [21:57] He's pretty good in that series. Go back and look at the stats. He was not the reason they lost. And his stats, in general, Luka has never really been... [22:04] spooked by the finals. The Celtics probably did the best job against him in 24, but, um, or not by a playoff series, not the finals. [22:12] But Luca's the only example. The point is, [22:15] When you're a young player and you're great, [22:17] There's still levels to this, and it's still like solving the video game. And I think you could really feel that Webby. Webby was so bad in the first half. [22:24] Taz just took it to him. [22:26] And, uh... [22:27] And he did respond in the second half. So if I'm the Spurs, you know, I'm going to get to that one second. Dan Klimko, a listener, wrote in, [22:37] Where does this Wemby Game 2 collapse rank for you on the Tragic Johnson, C-Web timeout, [22:43] freddie brown's passed to james worthy in 82 bird steals the ball from isaiah etc scale [22:51] We don't know yet because we don't know how the finals is going to turn out. This is a sweep. [22:56] Thank you. [22:57] I do think that play gets mentioned big picture. I do think... [23:02] Webby Castle, I just think you'll know instantly what it was. [23:05] It will take you right to that moment and it'll [23:09] just be [23:10] one of the weirder brainfire plays that we've ever had. There was a really good slow-mo from behind the hoop where Castle's turning as Wimby's throwing it. When you slow it down, you're like, "Why is he throwing it? Castle's already turned." But in real time,

[23:25] Thank you. [23:26] He's dribbling. There's 10 seconds. There's a bunch of stuff going on his head. And he's like, I should give that to Castle. And he's throwing it to him. But Castle's already turned around. [23:34] It's just the kind of play that would never happen if he was 27, 28, 29, and he's been in the league for a few years. He would have looked for his point guards. [23:40] This goes back to the whole youth versus experience thing. This was why we were wondering whether they were the 90 Bulls or the 91 Bulls all season. [23:49] This is my hesitation with them for a long time. And I finally bought in on them the last couple of rounds of, you just can't quantify it until you're there. And that play to me is the perfect example of, [24:00] You just don't know until you're at a moment like that, when you're on a stage like that, with that many people watching, when you've had a crappy first half, when you're trying to climb back, when you're tired, when you feel like you have to do everything and you just kind of panic. Magic Johnson is one of the seven best players of all time. You go back to the 84 finals. He's [24:18] Terrible. Like his worst play in that whole finals was the end of game two. He dribbles out the clock. [24:24] versus giving the ball to Kareem, they didn't even get a shot off on the last play of regulation. He just brain farted. And this is... [24:31] kind of stuff to happen. All right. So if you're the Spurs, [24:35] What's your roadmap for coming back? [24:39] I think you have to look at it this way. [24:41] You didn't get your ass kicked. [24:43] You're used to the speed of the finals now. You understand what it takes. You really found something in the last six minutes of game two. You've had big leads in both games. [24:54] You double digit leads, I think, in both games.

[24:56] You led game one with two minutes left. [24:59] You came back from 14, you led game two with 57 seconds left. So this wasn't like... [25:04] Like, I was there for Spurs Heat in 2014 because I was on the ESPN show. And I felt like that series was over after Game 3. Like, it was like, Spurs are just better. Like, this is a wrap. This is... [25:15] But Miami's not coming back from this. So you feel, one of the things you look at when you're looking at a matchup, deciding whether a series is over yet is, [25:23] is the team just laying it on the other team, right? Are there 20 point leads? Is it, [25:28] This has been a pretty even back and forth series. [25:33] The Spurs last two 50-50 games, right? [25:37] Pretty small sample size. So you would talk yourself into that. You would talk yourself into you completely threw away game two. It was one of the more ridiculous losses in recent finals history. [25:46] Your Brunson defense has worked. He's 19 for 56. He's taken 56 shots for 51 points. [25:53] So now you could say all the stuff you're doing to stop Brunson has now led to people like bridges getting hot, towns is... [26:00] has been borderline dominant. [26:02] Um, [26:04] But still, that's... [26:05] If you had said after two games, 56 for 51. [26:09] I'm feeling pretty good about that. [26:12] I'm feeling pretty good about maybe a little less castle going forward. [26:16] I love Castle. He's probably one of my 10 favorite players in the league. The fear with him is always that there was this little bit of a Westbrook side with him, this irrational confidence side that no matter what the moment was, he...

[26:29] He has so much confidence in himself. He's going to [26:33] kind of [26:34] meandering situations you shouldn't be in. And you could really feel that game too. I just think Harper has been their second best guy. [26:41] And is the guy I probably trust the most other than Wemby? [26:45] Um, yeah, [26:46] And it's weird because Castle is a great player. [26:49] But I think they need his defense and his intangible stuff way more. [26:53] than the ball handling. I wonder, well, you figure they're going to make some adjustments. Would they put him on Towns? [26:59] in game three a little bit. What are they going to do to try to disrupt Towns? Castle has been the guy disrupting Brunson, but do they try to flip it around and [27:07] move him around and just try to unleash him as, as this like intangibles force versus somebody that's, [27:14] It seems like he has the ball a little bit more than he should, and Harper doesn't have the ball enough. [27:19] When I think of the moves... [27:21] Les Castle. [27:23] Lower castle usage rate would be my first one. [27:28] I would use Carter Bryan as the backup center against Towns. I like Cornette, but we've just seen too much of the playoffs. Cornette comes in and you immediately feel like the Spurs are going to [27:37] going a 2 to 10... [27:39] The opposite of a run. [27:41] I would use Bryant against Towns. I love Bryant. [27:44] I actually don't think they're using him enough to say, I know he's 19. I know he's a baby. [27:49] And I mean a baby, like literally he's like a young, young NBA players two years away from being able to legally drink. [27:57] I think they need his physicality because if you're talking about the one thing this first team has been missing all season, it's been,

[28:04] That prototypical [28:06] Physical four. [28:08] that you could put next to Wemby that could guard like the Towns, Julius Randles, those type of guys. It's really Carter Bryant. [28:14] And, um, [28:16] If I were them. [28:17] I would lean on him more and I would lean less on Cornette. And then the biggest thing is, [28:22] Harper has to be on the floor even more, and they have to use Harper at crunch time. I think he only played four minutes. [28:27] in fourth quarter game one [28:30] Game two. [28:32] Played more. He ended up 32 minutes, but he's the least afraid guy they have on this team. I don't know why, but he just is. The guy is like born for this. [28:41] I really am careful to bring this up, and I think I've even said this before, but the 2000 Kobe... [28:48] came for Indiana, which was like really the beginning of The Legend of Kobe. [28:52] Um... [28:53] Shaq Foud out. [28:55] And... [28:56] I was living in Boston back then. [28:59] And like so many people my age and younger, like really, really thought Kobe had a chance to be the next Jordan or close. [29:07] And when Shaq fouled out, [29:09] I think everybody had the same thought. Like, [29:12] Huh, what do we have here with Kobe? It's time. Let's see it. And I think the thing everybody thought in the moment was this guy, whatever happens, this guy is not going to be scared. [29:21] Harper is not scared. [29:23] He's the opposite of scared. I actually feel like, [29:26] he's the most aggro ready for this of anyone on their team. [29:32] It doesn't make sense. He's 20 years old. We've talked about on pods on the past about young point guards.

[29:39] Um, this doesn't make sense. It just doesn't. [29:41] But it's the reality of the situation. [29:45] This guy's not scared. He needs to play more. And he probably needs to have the ball. Like you think about some of the terrible shots they had. [29:52] in the last three minutes of the game which are always like these fall away 22 footers these [29:57] contested threes, like these shots in traffic. [30:00] I like all the decisions the situation Harper is in with the ball. [30:05] I just feel the best about it. I don't understand why they don't run pick and roll with him and Wemby. I just... [30:10] I just would have the ball in his hands way more than they do. And maybe that would be. [30:14] This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. [30:17] Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. [30:24] New Whole Foods Market Peach Apricot Rose Italian Soda. [30:28] Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango yuzu chantilly cake. [30:35] But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales signs store-wide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. [30:48] Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. [30:53] This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. [31:07] Presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head.

[31:11] Backyard tradition now available behind the counter. [31:13] Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. [31:21] A couple other things for them. You already know you can win on the road. [31:25] in the hairiest situations possible. They won a game one and a game seven OKC. I know this Knicks [31:31] Game's going to be a madhouse tomorrow in Game 4. And the crowd's going to be incredible. And I honestly can't wait. [31:37] - OKC's crowd is really loud. It's not really gonna be a louder crowd than OKC. Like if OKC, if you could criticize the crowd or anything, it's like a constant loud noise. [31:47] that your head hurts after two hours of it. [31:51] But it's not going to be louder than that crowd. And they went in there and they won. So I don't think they're going to be scared unless this game two loss was just the most damaging thing ever. Trump's going to screw up the game three. And I don't mean it from being there. I'm not talking about politics. It's going to take two hours to get in there. [32:08] the game will probably start 15 minutes later than it should. [32:13] Which means like these games are already starting around like 840, 841. [32:18] East Coast time. The game will probably start closer to nine. And if you remember, like in the 22 finals, [32:23] They were starting the East Coast games super late. And I... [32:28] I went to game three and I went to game six. I didn't go to game four. [32:35] I thought it affected the crowd. [32:38] The game would start at like 9.15. The crowd's out. They've had dinner. They've had drinks. They kind of peek around...

[32:44] that 7.30 to 10 range. And by the time you get into the second half, it's late. It's like past 11 o'clock, you feel like you've had all this energy and, [32:53] it's a weird dynamic. I just think [32:57] I think this is, if I'm the Spurs, this is the kind of crowd slash time situation you're going to want. [33:04] where it's just going to feel... [33:06] disjointed and you want disjointed when you're on the road. And then the last thing is Wemby. Wemby is a great player. Wemby in the second half of game two at 22 points, [33:15] I thought he was all over the place defensively covering the rim. He's taking some shit because when he's 25 feet out from the basket, guys have gone by him. Guess what? He's the center. [33:25] Name anyone over seven feet that that would happen to. I just think like if you're criticizing Webby's defense in this, you're nuts. [33:33] But he hasn't been the best part in the series, and I'm not even sure... [33:36] He's been the second best player in the series. So, [33:39] Is he going to dig deep? [33:41] Is this... [33:43] going to be like that game too is the before and after of, oh, [33:47] That hardened him. That taught him how to win. Or is he just going to go sideways like Shaq did in 95? We will see. If you're the Knicks... [33:55] You got no calls in game two. You still won on the road. You got no calls. [34:00] And I actually, I didn't do a FanDuel pick for game two. I did bet on the Spurs money line with an adjusted over. [34:07] Because I thought the officiating was going to be what it was in that game. And it was what it was. [34:12] We all saw it. [34:14] They even rescinded the Mitchell Robinson technical after the fact, which is an idiotic, ridiculous technical at the time. The Towns game, the third and fourth fouls on Towns.

[34:24] We're atrocious. [34:26] Um, [34:27] So you still win that game and you could argue if, if the, [34:31] officiating was a little more balanced. Maybe you win that game by 10. [34:35] If you're the next person [34:37] you have to assume Brunson's shots are going to start falling. [34:41] that he's just, even down the stretch, they miss some wide open threes. Brunson missed some shots he just normally makes, so. [34:49] You have to assume he'll be better. [34:51] You have to assume the crowd's going to be incredible, and that's almost definitely to your benefit. We'll see. We'll see what the... [34:58] how disjointed it is. And you're going to be ready for more Harper in this game. You know, that's like the one thing that Spurs can do is unleash Harper a little more. So you got to be ready and got to plan for that. Okay. [35:09] Last thing, Carl Anthony Towns. [35:13] Been thinking about this a lot because I don't really remember... [35:17] Anything totally like this happening before... [35:20] in an NBA playoffs, where somebody that, [35:23] was a really good [35:25] pretty flawed star. [35:27] who I think made the last three worst contracts draft that I did with House and Wiles. [35:33] But we all thought he was good. [35:34] Anytime we did a ringer 100, he was always in the top 30 or 35. He's made... [35:40] Two second team on BAs or one second team on Bay and two thirds. [35:45] He's... [35:46] averaged 23 and 11 for his career for the regular season. [35:51] 52, 40, and 84 shooting percentages.

[35:54] If you just look at [35:57] The guys... [35:58] in the history of the league who've played at least 700 games. [36:02] and averaged 22 and 11. [36:04] right not crazy 22 and 11 700 plus games [36:08] Jokic, Wilt, Elgin, Barkley, Kareem, Bob Pettit, and Carl Anthony Towns. [36:14] So, [36:14] This is somebody that the stats always favored. Somebody that I think after his career, we probably like in the basketball reference, looking back era, the stats would have been more favorable to him. [36:27] And yet with somebody none of us trusted, [36:29] And that's just the way it is. [36:33] But [36:35] when you think about [36:36] The Knicks make this trade two years ago. And basically, they don't have a center because they lose Hartenstein. [36:42] Hartenstein getting poison-pilled basically by Oklahoma City and the Knicks losing Hartenstein leads to the townstrand. [36:48] They're heading toward this season. [36:49] And they decide we have no chance unless we have some sort of center. [36:53] Towns' contract is scary. [36:55] we can give up Brando and DiVincenzo and get him. And they basically just bet on the pedigree. They bet on a guy that Wes and Leon had known since he was 15 years old. [37:04] When they were, when Wes was trying to recruit him at Kentucky, they'd known him forever, right? They're betting on the pedigree. [37:11] Now, sometimes this doesn't work. [37:13] Didn't work with Darko. [37:15] Remember, I think Orlando traded for Darko. Didn't work. [37:18] Thabit. Did Thabit ever have pedigree? He was taken second. [37:22] Michael Beasley is a good one. Michael Beasley, always one of the best two or three high school players in his class all the way up.

[37:29] Put up, I think, 25 and 10 in college. [37:32] Was a little out there, to say the least, personality-wise, but there was pedigree there, and a bunch of teams took chances on him. Never happened. And then Ben Simmons was a good one. [37:41] Oh, he's fine. It's just the Philly thing didn't work out. You just got to change the scenery. Well, that didn't work. [37:47] DeAndre Ayton sort of. [37:49] Portland and the Lakers. [37:51] So this doesn't always work. And there's a million more examples than that, but there's, [37:56] This is something GMs think about. If somebody was a top five pick, a top three pick, the first pick in the draft, [38:02] Maybe they were in the wrong situation. Maybe you could flip them to another situation. It works way better in baseball. It's worked in football sometimes, um, [38:11] where especially with quarterbacks where they flip teams and things can change. In basketball, Wiggins was a great example of this in Golden State. Wiggins, we'd all kind of given up on as a meaningful player and he had a bad contract. Goes to Golden State. He's their second best guy in the 2022 finals team. Aaron Gordon's sort of like this. He was the fifth pick in the draft. We all loved Aaron Gordon. [38:33] Um, but just, uh, [38:35] Never... [38:37] Never really had it in Orlando, right? Goes to Denver and becomes this crucial guy in their 23 team. Rasheed... [38:45] was a good one. Rashid had been in some big moments and had had probably more success than Towns. [38:50] but was too much of a hothead. [38:53] Set the technicals record. And by the time he lands in Detroit, the question was, [38:59] Wasn't for me because I like the trade, but, um,

[39:02] Is that too risky? [39:03] Do you want to be in business with Rasheed Wallace? Well, they ended up beating the Lakers that year. Chauncey Billups is a great one for this. [39:11] Chauncey Billups, I was in Boston going to all those games because my dad never wanted to go Patino's first year. [39:16] We traded him after 50 games. [39:18] in a Kenny Anderson trade and [39:21] Um, [39:22] I remember kind of liking the trade when it happened. I didn't know what Chauncey was. [39:27] I couldn't tell if he was a point guard or a shooting guard or what he was and, [39:31] He could go to the basket. He was a really good athlete. But I learned a valuable lesson from that, which is don't give up on young guards and especially young point guards because – [39:42] He bounced around. He went to Toronto. He went to Denver. [39:46] went to Minnesota, and then finally ends up in Detroit. Detroit bets on the pedigree, and guess what? He becomes one of the better playoff players we had in the 2000s. [39:55] Robert Parrish is a good one for this. He was, I think the sixth pick in the draft. Um, [40:00] Golden State kind of cooled off on them. And when Red Auerbach wanted McHale, ends up trading back from one to three and getting Robert Parrish. So those are probably Wiggins, Gordon, Rasheed, Billups, Parrish are five really good examples of this, a bet on the pedigree. [40:14] And it makes you wonder when you're watching what's happened with Towns. [40:17] Two lessons. One, [40:20] Do you look at a couple guys we have in the league now a little more closely? [40:24] Um, [40:25] I don't think Evan Mobley counts for this because Evan Mobley's already good. I think he's [40:30] He's been on at least one All-NBA team. Cleveland made the Eastern Conference Finals. He's a max guy. I wouldn't put him in the town's camp.

[40:39] Jabari Smith. [40:41] Scoot Henderson. [40:44] Neither of them had the most success as Towns has had over the course of his career. [40:50] Zion? [40:51] Thank you. [40:52] Higher peak. [40:54] in Towns, but no playoff footprint at all and not as durable as Towns. [41:00] John Moran. [41:02] There's off the field, off the court stuff with John that I think, I don't think Towns had red flags like that. So maybe it's Zion. [41:09] As somebody – [41:11] Because the thinking is when somebody hits their mid late 20s, [41:14] Do they mature? [41:16] Do they... [41:17] round into something different than what we know now, right? So, [41:21] The case for Zion would be, [41:24] Well, what if he just became more mature and got an awesome shape and went to the right team and could be unleashed as this different kind of force? [41:32] Um, that's one lesson is, is, is, [41:35] Think about the pedigree. Are there other guys like this? The other one would be don't overreact to a bad series. [41:41] So in 24 against Dallas... [41:44] Towns was awful. [41:46] Like, really awful. And when Towns was bad, he's bad. Like, Towns, people... [41:52] A lot of people in my life, some people that have had pods for The Ringer or have left The Ringer, were just completely out on Towns. Towns in that series... [42:00] was 20 and eight, but he shot 38%, 24% from three. Dallas was fucking with him in all these different ways, and it just felt like the dumb foul stuff was never gonna end. And I remember after three, I went and I actually found this text, Minnesota's down three to Dallas in 24, and I started texting house at halftime of game three,

[42:22] that Townes was going to be on the Wizards next year. And House was really mad. He's like, stop it. That's not funny. It was like a lot of epithets from House. [42:30] Um, [42:31] That's how bad it got for Towns. So when they traded for him, [42:35] Huge contract. And we were just coming off the worst series of his career. Well, what happens? Um, [42:43] this playoffs he's unleashed. [42:46] And I don't really fully have an explanation for it because I can't think of [42:51] Another example like this. [42:54] of somebody that I had already decided on as a player. [42:57] who then dug deep and completely surprised me in a completely different way. [43:02] Um, [43:03] I got an email from Mike from Toronto. [43:06] After game two, Charles Barkley said he was criticized in Minnesota, criticized in New York. Cat is the finals MVP. [43:13] I actually think he might be the final. Now there's two more games, but I think he would be the leader for me. [43:19] Barkley said it was the best two games I've seen a big man play. That feels a little strong. [43:23] Um, [43:25] Is this the greatest change of opinion about a player we have seen? [43:28] It's a really good question because I think all of us had decided on towns and what we had decided is, [43:37] Good stats. Seems like a really nice guy. [43:40] but it's pretty flawed and is going to, [43:44] have dumb fouls and do dumb things at the worst possible times. And that's just who he is as a player. [43:49] I decided that. [43:51] Um, [43:52] So I was thinking about

[43:53] An actual change of opinion, there's got to be three... [43:57] three qualities here. [43:58] Has to be somebody we were really down on. [44:01] Has to be somebody who is good enough to at least make an all-NBA team or be in the mix in a conference finals or even a finals team. [44:08] It has to be somebody that [44:12] either won a title or kind of came close. So that rules out Vince Carter. [44:16] Because Vince Carter, to me, was the most disappointing player of the 2000s, just for what the potential was. But the peak of his career was probably losing the seven to Philly in round two. It wasn't ever like he got close. Chris Webber is a really good one. [44:32] I thought Chris Webber was going to be the best forward of the 1990s. And the timeout, I think, changed him. [44:39] in a bunch of different ways. And I don't even think that's an opinion. I think that, [44:43] kind of sapped him of something. And, you know, the Golden State thing got weird. He went to Washington and just was really disappointing, right? And gets traded to Sacramento for an older Mitch Richmond, [44:56] And at that point, [44:58] It felt like a good flyer. [45:00] Sure. Chris Weber, maybe. And then he turned into one of the best five guys in the league there. [45:05] But they never even made the finals. And then the one that's probably the closest to this is Dirk, post-2007. [45:13] after... [45:15] They lose 06 finals and then they lose to Golden State in the 07 playoffs. And eventually that leads to him doing the Australian trip. But I had just given up on Dirk being the best guy on a championship team. I didn't think it was possible. And then in 2011...

[45:30] He had one of the great resurgences slash rejuvenations in the history of the league. [45:36] And blows through everybody. I think he beats the Lakers. He beats OKC. [45:41] Maybe... [45:42] Memphis or San Antonio and then [45:45] in Miami in the finals but just it was a murderer's row and he just went through it and demolished everybody [45:53] So Dirk is still the number one thing for this, but in Dirk's case, he'd won an MVP. He'd made the finals. [45:59] He was one of the best players of the 2000s. Towns was never as good as Dirk. The Dirk thing, the Towns thing, [46:06] TAN's becoming this cerebral... [46:09] awesome, never has not made dumb plays at all. [46:14] In the entire playoffs. It's almost like. [46:18] like he, [46:19] if you changed your meds for a little kid or something, like you had a hyperactive little kid, [46:24] And little kid went on meds and just became a different kid. You're like, hey, what's different about that kid? [46:29] Towns, it's like he's having like a somebody changed his med series, even though I don't probably isn't on meds. [46:34] But, um... [46:35] It's been so dramatic, I almost can't believe what I'm watching. [46:39] That first half he played in game two was one of the best halves of [46:43] I've seen best... [46:44] Both end halves I've seen a center play. And I think the guys at halftime were totally right. I think Wemby was shook by it. He's like, I thought I was going to have a huge advantage of this guy. I went into the series thinking Towns was going to be the number one reason that they [46:56] that they were going to be in trouble for this series. And it's been the opposite. So, [47:00] Watching this town's resurgence has been fantastic.

[47:03] A couple more emails, then we're going to get to Adam Friedland. [47:06] Max V says, Livia and Matt, and I can say this is the most excited I've seen this city ever. [47:12] Um, [47:13] about a possible championship. People are going fucking nuts. The odds are obviously against it. [47:17] But knock on wood, if the Knicks blow this series, not putting that out there, but he's, he wrote this as an email. If the Knicks blow this series. [47:26] Would this be the biggest gut punch loss of the 21st century? [47:29] All right, I thought about this. [47:31] Um, [47:33] The formula would be how long was the drought? [47:35] How gigantic is your fan base and how egregious was the collapse? [47:41] So the 86 Red Sox. [47:44] is a great example of this. The Red Sox hadn't won in... [47:48] 66 years. [47:51] Sawro was! [47:52] 68 years. 68 years. I can still do math. Red Sox haven't lost in 68 years. [47:58] 13 strikes to win the World Series and lost. [48:02] Um, [48:03] And that was the biggest gut punch, I think, of the 21st century for a sports team and a fan base. [48:09] years to recover. I think it was actually genuinely damaging for a whole generation of younger fans, including myself. [48:16] The 94 Rangers are a good example of almost having this happen, but they didn't because you forget they're up 3-1 in the finals against Vancouver. [48:25] They come home for game five. It's almost like this Knicks series right now. Prices are through the roof. Everyone wants to be in the building for when they win. [48:33] They blow game five at home. They lose game six in Vancouver. And now there's two days off before game seven. And...

[48:40] I knew some Rangers fans and still do. [48:44] That was an all-time people freaking the fuck out 48-hour span. And then they end up eking out Game 7 and winning it. So it was all fine. But – [48:55] I would say if the Knicks blow this at this point, [48:59] I don't know if it would have a parallel this century. [49:02] Because it's unlike the Falcons-Patriots where it's 23, you blow a game in an hour and a half. This would be... [49:07] You would have to blow this over... [49:10] a week and a half. [49:11] And, uh, [49:13] It wouldn't. [49:15] be a all time historic collapse because nobody's ever won the first two on the road and then lost the final. So, um, [49:23] James from Brooklyn wants to know if [49:25] Towns wins the title. Would Minnesota fans be more bitter about trading with Cat or Garnett? [49:30] And then he says, "How long until Ant leaves for a title somewhere else?" That was me and James. [49:37] I'd be more bitter about the cat trade. Garnett wanted to leave the team. [49:41] The team should have traded him even two years before they did. And he had no chance to win a title there. And you had to trade him and you had to rebuild. That was the right move. [49:50] The cat thing... [49:52] Really did seem more financial than anything. And they had had success with him already. They just made the conference finals with him. I mentioned that was a tough series for him and for the team. [50:01] But that to me was a financial trade. [50:04] It was a chance to reset [50:06] a year from now with new ownership. [50:09] and try to get Randall on a lower deal and just not have to pay in the 50s for Cat and Anthony Edwards at the same time. And I don't think a lot of teams...

[50:17] would have made that trade. I think teams would have probably tried to suck it up with Towns for another year. It was a financial trade, but it was also a trade that happened because he sucked in Dallas series. So, [50:26] I'd be a little more bitter about that one. [50:29] Ricky wants to know, with the way Cat is showing how the best antidote to Wendy is someone who could stretch them out to the three-point line and leverage their strength to get to the basket on offense, can I introduce you to Joel Hans and Bede? [50:43] Hansenbead, Joe Hansenbead, [50:45] He's a longtime Sixers fan, by the way, this guy. He said in their matchups this far, Embiid is averaging a meager 38-11. [50:52] He needs multiple, if not all, athletic high-level long-wing defenders. A few West teams have just that and more to trade for Embiid. [50:59] Is the savvy team in the West looking at what Kat's doing and thinking this might be a decent idea? [51:05] I laughed at this when I read this, and then I put some thought into it, and I was actually wondering if this might make sense for somebody. The problem is you go look at Embiid's contract, and it's... [51:15] a catastrophe but [51:17] maybe a year from now. [51:19] It's a possibility. Scotty in Phoenix wants to know, [51:23] So, [51:24] Everyone knows the Knicks haven't lost since April 23rd. [51:27] Two days later, they start the win streak. It was also the same day poor Dante Di Vincenzo tore his Achilles, and he's like, [51:35] Was that like a sacrifice in the 53-year drought? Poor Dante. I do think they should have him at one of these games. [51:43] He got the Ross deal out of everybody, right? He's like, I thought we were all doing this Philadelphia thing. What happened? It is weird that he got hurt the same day of this.

[51:51] And that, um... [51:53] Tevin in Portland wants to know, [51:55] If the Knicks want to guarantee their first championship in 53 years, [51:58] Dolan needs to invite Oakley back for game three at MSG. [52:02] Can you imagine how the crowd would react seeing him there in San Antonio with a standard chance? [52:07] This would be a great, great, great [52:09] This would be like a pro wrestling moment. They hug at midcourt. [52:13] or they bring out Oakley, almost like a wrestling entrance where they play. I guess Oakley doesn't have music. [52:19] But, uh, [52:22] This would be a pretty good idea. I think if the crowd had the choice between Oakley and Trump, they'd probably pick Oakley. [52:27] Um, [52:28] All right, that's enough foreplay. We're going to bring in Adam Friedland, and things are about to get wacky. That's next. [52:34] If we knew more about our sleep, what would we do differently? Would we go to bed at a consistent time? Or take steps to reduce interruptions to our sleep? With Sleep Score, Apple Watch measures your bedtime consistency, interruptions, and sleep duration. Then, every morning it combines these factors into an easy-to-understand score from 1 to 100. So you'll know how to take the quality of your sleep from OK to very high. Know your Sleep Score with Apple Watch. iPhone 11 or later required. [53:04] Thank you. [53:06] This episode is brought to you by Fox One. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World Cup live in 4K for just $19.99 a month with three days free. Build your own multi-view, choose up to three streams, and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights, and instant replays. The FIFA World Cup, streaming live on Fox One, offers a subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions.

[53:35] All right. So we banked this part of the podcast early afternoon and this is take two. This is the first time I think this has happened since, uh, COVID when we were having these audio issues, uh, [53:46] We did a whole... We did like 100 minutes this morning. And... I could have gone my entire life, Bill. It disappeared. It's ironic, Adam Friedland, because... [53:56] This was your first appearance on the pod. You were excited about it. And somehow you brought like a black cloud with you and it vaporized the technology. Why are you blaming me? I'm blaming you. That was Belle, the producer here, said that was the greatest podcast. Literally, she said the best podcast. We're going to run it back. We're just doing it. We're doing it a second time. I was so sad. I texted the boys. I realized afterwards that this is what I've been preparing for my entire life. I didn't even know. [54:23] We're just talking about ball. Listen. Here's the thing. Now it's gone to history. Only like seven people... [54:31] know the magic of that first time we did it. And now we're just going to redo it. It will be better. It will be worse. The only ones that are going to know are us. It'll be most certainly worse. But like on a sincere note, I grew up, my pod father ran out on our family as a kid. [54:46] And I felt like for 90 minutes, I'd found a pot. A real pot father? I won't tell him. I won't say his name. He's become, but his show, his podcast is called the Joe Rogan Experience. But I don't want to, but he left us and he said it was my fault. And I was growing up, my biological pot father, of course. And I was like, you know, he's not the step pot father. He's the pot father who stepped up. Bill Simmons. No, but I realized it was like, yeah, it was just, I was telling you at the beginning of

[55:16] just so it's so sick you get to just do this for your job yeah that so the first time we did this which we're just going to do again you're interrogating me on what my life's like we'll get to that in a second well i opened with a comment about how beautiful your eyes were oh did you remember that yeah that got us off to a strange start um listen important business first the adam friedland show [55:40] is joining... [55:41] Spotify in July. [55:44] You're relaunching your third season with us. So you're technically on the Ringer team, but more importantly, next month, on the Adam Friedland Show, you're doing a special soccer podcast, a mini-series called The Beautiful Pod. [55:57] Okay, we are off to a disaster start. I screwed this up? On Wednesday, we are starting. You said next month. [56:06] Well, this month. Yeah. June. I meant this month. On Wednesday. Yes. The Adam Freeland Show, we're going into pre-production on season three. When we return, we are now part of the ringer or something or other. Yeah. Do you get classier ads? They do classy ads, right? I think it's a win for everybody. I've been selling boner pills for 10 years. It's a halo effect. I've been selling some disgusting offshore gambling scams. Yeah. Your boner [56:36] are over. I had the mayor, Mom Donnie, on the show, and we had an erectile dysfunction ad booked. So I was like, we got to lead off with the, do you have trouble getting an erection? Yes, but yeah, we're doing a, we're going to, what is it, Rigger? Spotify Partner. The ad for the show is now Spotify Partner. But beyond that, I am now doing the World Cup coverage for the Rigger. I couldn't be more excited. And we loaned you

[57:06] Chris Ryan. [57:07] Yes, you did. [57:09] It was like with soccer, they loan the players, right? They can do that for like a year. I just loaned my striker. I'm a second division team. I loaned my striker. I got relegated. [57:18] We didn't get relegated, but we're loaning CR to you anyway. Well, you loan a young guy that you want to get minutes to a crappier team. The thing is, CR has the most minutes at the ringer. I think he's on 17 podcasts, but he's at an event. Yeah, you're like, we can't find space on the roster for this guy. This is like Messi. This is like Messi going to Miami. [57:38] This is where he's going to end his career. On the beautiful pod. A Taft's original miniseries. [57:48] Genuinely, I'm so excited to talk just about sports. Instead of whatever the hell I do regularly. Actually, I really enjoy doing the Adam Friedland show. It's pretty cool. It'll be a nice change of pace. [58:03] Yesterday, I was writing jokes for it all day. [58:08] This is what I wish I would do for the rest of my life. Yeah, come to the dark side. Just waste your life talking about sports and getting paid for it. It's great. Yeah, it's really nice. You probably don't even know what a tariff is. Your life is amazing. Yeah, I don't know. See, your life is incredible. Do we have a president or a prime minister here? I don't even know. I regret to inform you that things are terrible. [58:31] One of the things I want to talk to you about was you're in New York City.

[58:36] We live in Brooklyn, but New York with the Knicks... [58:39] Um, there's been a unifying thing happening in the city that all my friends are saying they've never experienced anything like this ever. [58:46] Yeah. Well, first off, New York's been it's been difficult here with the Mamdani Institute of Sharia Law and Ben the Knicks have given. I'm sorry. See, the first joke was funny. What did I say? Oh, yeah. This is an anti-Semitic. You're like, how is New York? No, no, this is anti-Semitism. I'm now remembering all the jokes and you can't tell him a second time. I said, Bill was like, how is it a New Yorker? And I was like, well, the anti-Semitism is rampant. [59:16] since 2014 and I was in DC before that but I've never lived in a city that's just like going so hard for their boys right now. Blue and orange everywhere watch parties everywhere. [59:26] People wearing homemade jerseys. Wesley Morris was talking about it. He was delighted by this. He felt like, because I remember in Boston in 2004, [59:34] They're in the ALCS and then the World Series. [59:38] It felt like the entire city... [59:41] just mobilized into this giant Red Sox machine, and you could see it. It was like everywhere you went, you just saw hats, jerseys, and it feels like New York's like that right now. Yeah, people are out on the street. That's the cool part about it. People are just running outside. Outside of your window, you hear people screaming and stuff. People are lighting fireworks right now. It's pretty cool. Hopefully, but evidently. [1:00:04] What do you mean benevolent? I mean, I think fireworks are a good thing. Yeah, they're mostly benevolent.

[1:00:09] Oh, yeah. People are doing crimes after every... Yeah, crime is through... No, yeah. You're seeing fireworks. It's really just genuinely... It's really special. I mean, New York should have a better basketball team, you know? [1:00:25] They should be like a dynastic, like, you know, it's New York, right? And it's, I guess there was those Larry Johnson years in the 90s, but like, it's, it's like kind of wrong. You called it in the Larry Johnson years? The Patrick Ewing years? No, I was saying the Greg Anthony years in the 90s. Yeah. The Anthony Mason years in the 90s. The John Starks years, right. I remember as a kid, it was just, I remember the fights. I remember the Heat, Heat-Nicks fights. And those were, that was really cool. [1:00:55] What was it, 78 was the last year? No, I mean, they had good stretches. Yeah, 73 was the last title. Good stretches in the 80s. I think the Bernard King stretch before he got hurt was great. A couple really good bumps in the 90s, like when they battled MJ the first time. [1:01:15] the physical Knicks teams in the 90s. And then it just... [1:01:18] So ever since I got to ESPN, they kind of died. Yeah. When I got there in 2001, it was like they were relevant. One playoff series. That was it. Yeah. [1:01:27] That was in 2013, yeah. Oh, yeah. I guess that's even later. Yeah, I guess I... Yeah, I'd like... [1:01:35] It's like going to the garden is special Right like it is like a cathedral Of the game right I would even admit that as a Celtic fan It feels special right I mean you're not necessarily rivals It's your rivals with us

[1:01:48] Thank you. [1:01:49] Why do you live there? I'm not going to move to Boston. [1:01:53] Outside of that, it's like the stadium where... [1:01:57] the star and the other team [1:02:00] Fair question. What? You have disgust for all the people going. Well, when I grew up, I hated the Lakers. And the moment I moved here, I was like, this is weird. It's nice. But it's nice. Yeah, it's really nice. The weather is pretty great. Yeah, it's nice. Anyway, but yeah, it's the stadium where the star on the other team has his 50 piece, right? Yeah. [1:02:20] It's like the stadium where Kobe has his, you know, like, just takes bows. You know, like, it's like a place that brings out the best in the other teams. But it's cool. Even if they're out of playoff contention, it's the end of the year. And someone does the half-court shot at halftime. And he misses it. Everyone's like, go fuck yes out. It's got an energy about it. And, like, the stadium's still sold out. But it's, like, spilled outside the streets. It's really incredible to see. Yeah. [1:02:50] It's a long time coming too. It got to the point where you started to wonder, [1:02:54] is this ever going to happen again for this team? Between the mismanagement, the bad luck, some of the dumb contracts. And it really was like, it took COVID to really shake the dicks out of it. It was. Post-COVID, all of a sudden, things got better. But there is something about like, yeah, Cat, I mean, I've just never seen him at this level. I went to the first round against the Hawks, and I didn't see it. I genuinely didn't see it. And there was something that was missing there. And I was like, what's the philosophy of this team?

[1:03:24] When was the last time they lost? A month ago? [1:03:27] More than that. Yeah, it was April, April 23rd. Yeah. And it's been like remarkable. Like they've had these like, like this, as we were saying in our, the best podcast of all time, we're really, are we hitting it? Can I ask you a question? I think we're very close. Every woman I've ever had sex with. How was that for you? I had a great time. I'm having a great time again. Uh, no, but, uh, yeah, there is, there's something that clicks and like, you know, like, uh, [1:03:54] Like, it's just, yeah. [1:03:57] I don't understand. Like, Cat, I've never seen him at this level before. The stuff with the mom is, like, made me cry. It's like, I lost my mother. There's just something special. And you were saying in the last show, but, like, as they, seeing them collectively defend and deal with Wemby. Yeah. And, like, and then seeing the level of the basketball just in these finals, it's like, I just keep saying this is such good basketball. And it's, like, it's been such a fun series. [1:04:24] that's in waiting, about to take over the entire league. He'll probably play 30 years. We'll probably be still waiting for him to get hurt. - Right. - We're like, oh yeah, at that size. [1:04:36] He's 52 and he's unbelievable. But yeah. It never happened to Kareem. So that would be the role model for Wemby. He wasn't bulky too, right? No, Kareem stayed skinnier. [1:04:48] He did yoga and karate and all this stuff to kind of stay limber. We haven't really got a karate guy.

[1:04:55] Yeah. Yeah. They're both karate guys. Well, it's, it's funny. The, um, [1:05:00] I wrote, I had a bunch of people in my life. [1:05:04] Because I picked the Spurs to win this series. And I had a bunch of people in my life... [1:05:09] who were like, this is crazy you didn't pick the Knicks. You wrote this whole basketball book, and the premise was The Secret of Basketball, and how it's not about basketball, and it's [1:05:18] unselfishness and teamwork and fighting off the disease of more and putting your, putting the team ahead of the person. And, and I had multiple friends say this to me, like, how do you not see that this is what's happening with the Knicks? And I was just, [1:05:33] I was in that mode of... It's because it's the Knicks. Well, it was the Knicks, and I was also in that mode of, wow, it was Cleveland... [1:05:38] It was Philly with like breaking down Embiid. It was Atlanta with three players like [1:05:44] I just think San Antonio is a horrible matchup for you. And as it turned out, the Knicks are probably a horrible matchup for San Antonio as well. Yeah. I mean, I guess Mitch has dealt with Wemby kind of maybe the best. Is that fair to say? And Towns has really taken it to him. Yeah. So. I think also they're still just terrible when he's not playing. Like, it's remarkable what he's done at 22. And like... [1:06:10] Yeah, we were talking before about like, it's not a real sweep, right? Like, it feels series over, but like, [1:06:18] It does also feel like anything could happen in this series. Well, game three is going to be weird because Trump's going. It's going to take two and a half hours to get in there.

[1:06:28] And the game will probably be delayed The game's already starting like 840 So it'll probably start closer to 940 [1:06:36] And I always found like this happened in, in 22 with the Celtics. [1:06:41] When they, for some reason, the games were starting at like 9, 10 p.m. Eastern time. [1:06:46] And it definitely, the crowd got a little weird as it got later and later and just didn't have the same energy as it did in the beginning. So I'm going to be interested to see. [1:06:55] Does the crowd peak too early? Is the Trump thing like this crazy wild card? Is the game like disjointed? Is the crowd disjointed? Or is it going to be like the romantic version of it is... [1:07:06] This is the end of the Shawshank Redemption for the Knicks fans. This is two games of bliss. [1:07:12] The crowd's incredible. [1:07:14] The Spurs are scarred from what happened in game two, and it's just a sweep. [1:07:17] And I honestly don't know. I don't even know how to pick it. [1:07:20] It's still, it's, it's like, you still, you just have seen this franchise, like, fuck up so many times. It's like, I'm an Arsenal fan. We've been 22 years. And... [1:07:31] We'd been in first place and then finished second for three straight years. Yeah. This season was terrifying. Every match. Because of the prospect of finishing second a fourth time. We were up nine points on the table. We almost fucked it for a fourth time. I don't know how we would have been able to manage it. And I also, none of us believe that it could ever happen, too. I'm sure a lot of Knicks fans aren't, too. Yeah, I mean. Well, there was this moment.

[1:08:01] in the first segment of the pod, the Rangers in 94 when they had a one in 54 years. And they took a 3-1 lead heading into Game 5. And Game 5 was in New York. And everybody's like, oh my god, I gotta be there when they win the Cup. And then they lost. [1:08:14] And then they lost game six. And... [1:08:17] People were just, it was the, every Nick fan or every New York fan I knew is that it was the most horrifying thing. [1:08:23] like four days, but then they end up winning game seven. I felt like I had a nightmare scheduled. I'm like, yeah, tomorrow at three, I'm going to watch a nightmare. I'm just so scared about it. I have to watch. Question for you. Like, [1:08:37] Bloody Saki was like [1:08:39] It must have been the most incredible thing that you've ever seen in sports, right? The four days in a row against the Yankees is my highlight as a sports fan. Yeah, that series was unreal. But it meant more, right? Because of the curse, right? Oh, yeah. This is the... [1:08:58] it's the losing virginity as a sports fan of it's the only way you can do it when you've had a drought for this long. [1:09:05] And then all these great things happen. And it's never going to be as good as the first time. It's just not. How do you like, but you're like, as a Pats fan, like, how did you like keep getting boners? Like, you know, like what I'm saying? It has to like not diminish. I took those ED drugs you did on the, I took the sports ED drugs. Promo code if you add them. Promo code Tom Brady. Adam 420. No, but I'm saying like, does it feel, it diminishes in, in its like excitement or you, or Boston guys just like, if we don't win, it's just a.

[1:09:35] We were basically like if the Jets had won the Super Bowl, right? We were like black sheep losers. And he was like a child. He was a backup. Yeah, and it was so improbable. It was right after 9-11, so there's a patriotic thing. So I think people are rooting with us. [1:09:46] What do you mean it was right after 9-11 because they were named the Patriots? Well, it was, you know, the beautiful day, you two at the Super Bowl halftime show. It was like very American Super Bowl. [1:09:57] It was because of your name, the Patriots. They did it for 9-11? Yeah. Yeah. It was part of it. [1:10:03] You remember the U2 halftime show? Where the streets have no name with all the 9-11 names is emotional. I remember the Janet Jackson halftime show. Well, that's when it probably turned. Then the third one, everyone got tired of us. We became Duke. [1:10:16] And then Spygate happened and we were villains. The best was Prince in the rain in Miami. Do you remember that? Doing Purple Rain. Oh, yeah. You were saying. But America turned on us, which actually was great. Because then all we had was each other. The other Pats fans was galvanizing. [1:10:32] Then we were rejuvenated. It's what we were talking about with Kobe. It's like you're heaped with praise. That's the arc. Brady was this backup. It was a romantic thing. And then eventually we're like, fuck those guys. They win all the time. Well, there's different kinds of titles you win. That one, nobody ever... They were two touchdown underdogs in the Super Bowl. And I think they were like 13-point underdogs in the AFC title game. The next one's a little different because it came late. [1:11:00] But once we got to the finals, I think the Spurs were favored. But I knew a lot of people that thought the Knicks were going to win. And I think it's not like shocking that they're winning. You know, I think I had no idea how to call it.

[1:11:13] I just didn't know. Because you don't know. Because the best guy on the team is 22. [1:11:18] Yeah. [1:11:19] He's 22, but he's that. [1:11:21] I don't know what that is. He threw the game-deciding pass off his teammates back. Well, he's 22. He's 22. And his teammate was 21 when he threw the pass. They're incredible when he's playing, and they stink when he's not. I mean, they stunk last year. How many wins did they have last year? Who did? The Spurs. Well, the Spurs didn't play half the year. I know. The turnaround is like, is it the biggest turnaround? Yeah. [1:11:46] It's one of them. The first bird Celtic year, they gained like 31 wins, I think, from the year before. [1:11:52] This has to be the record. [1:11:54] Oh, really? It is. I asked you... [1:11:57] Because you live in Brooklyn. We got to stop saying that we talked about this the last time because nobody heard the other time. I know, but it breaks my heart. I know, it's fine. It's dead. Because you already heard it. It's dead. You have to fake laugh? No, I haven't fake laughed once. [1:12:08] I know, I'm just kidding. You live in Brooklyn, you live near Barclays, and I was asking you, with what you've seen from the Knicks, and how this city rallied around the Knicks, if you're the Nets, like, [1:12:20] Prudential Center, Newark. We're going home. What's the Wednesday meeting like where Joe Sye's like, hey, man, we have to figure out [1:12:28] The Liberty are more popular than us and Barclays. The Knicks have 99.9% of the NBA fans. What's our plan? We can't keep this going. [1:12:37] I mean, he had to have known already, right? No, this is worse than he ever could have imagined, I think. The atmosphere at any home game is... I mean, they play like...

[1:12:46] they play every game as kind of a road game for the players on the Nets. It's tough. I feel bad for them. The last year, I still think about Kyrie and Durant being on the same team and how cool that was. It was a toe, right? And then it was over. And that was a [1:13:04] That... [1:13:05] I was at the game one, the blowout against Giannis. And that was like, there was something happening and it was exciting. But since then, the toe is kind of the end, right? [1:13:17] There's no question. It's the before and after. The potential of those two guys being on the same team, though, at that stage in both their careers, it was like, it's such a what if for me still. Well, it wasn't just that they were on the same team. The Knicks also wanted the two guys, and they chose Brooklyn to... [1:13:34] over the Knicks, which had happened repeatedly. Like, Durant didn't want to go there to the Knicks in 16th. [1:13:39] LeBron turned them down famously in 2010. [1:13:43] They weren't even a choice for people. And I think that's a video for him. Right. You saw that. Oh, yeah. But I think what's changed, regardless of whether they win the title or not, and they're big favorites now, but they're now a destination again, I think, for players, which was just not the case for 20 years. [1:14:00] It's crazy. I almost forgot that they chose the Nets over the Knicks. That's how toxic that brand was. [1:14:08] That's insane. It feels like, how is that possible? You're right. Like, but yeah, it was a better situation over there. And like, yeah, it's such a what if because Kyrie just does the impossible and makes it look easy for him. And then everything that Durant does looks easy, but it's really hard to do what he's doing. Like, they're like the opposites. Like, Durant is just making everything look effortless. Kyrie's making everything look so insanely hard and he's somehow doing it. And it's like the combination of those two, like.

[1:14:38] offensive savants on the same team. It really bums me out. I was like, I wish we got to see more of it. And Harden got hurt the one time he actually cared about that team. Your favorite player ever is Kobe? [1:14:50] Yeah, so what? [1:14:52] Oh, yeah. There was a question. No, nobody missed it. This is the first time they're overhearing it. Bill gave me a full-throated apology for his mistreatment of Mr. Kobe. No, no, no. I just said I was late to the party of appreciating how good he was. I know. You were. You were. But something about you is like, I've always been like, how dare he say that about Kobe? But then I'd be like, if I was Bill, I would be rocking with my boys in the same way. Yeah. There's always like this. Do you think you were like the first to disclose your allegiances in media? Sorry, I asked you a question back. [1:15:22] Sorry, I did the thing where I interview you back. Well, it was kind of a new thing. [1:15:26] Thank you. [1:15:27] Definitely was a new thing. Because when I came up, when I was writing for ESPN... [1:15:31] And I was writing from the sports fan perspective. It was basically just newspaper columnists and that's it. Everybody's supposed to be very down the middle and you weren't supposed to have favorite teams. And I always felt like the people that I enjoyed reading, I always felt like were fans of the [1:15:47] the sport or the team. And like, I talked about it, this William Goldman book that I loved called wait till next year, where he wrote from the perspective of the New York fan. I was like, that's, that's kind of how I want to run. [1:15:58] write my column. Now it's pretty common. [1:16:01] It's also bullshit. You would have to be right down the middle. If you love your team and you love your guys, you should rather just be honest with it so people can see where you're coming from. I think it's different if you're like

[1:16:14] Brian Windhorst and you're in locker rooms and you're talking about it in a different way. I think it'd be tough for it to be like, I'm also a giant Cavs fan. That's why you love it. [1:16:23] He loved LeBron, right? [1:16:26] I don't know if he loved him, but he covered him forever. I asked Nick, right? I said, when they had that, the Wembe LeBron thing, I was like, did you say to yourself, and then there was one. [1:16:40] Bye. [1:16:42] What do you say? [1:16:43] He laughed. That was it? He's like, Windy's a great guy. He was diplomatic. Yeah, but it's definitely different now. I think it's basically because there's way more media. There's way more opinions. [1:16:58] There's all kinds of ways to get [1:17:00] to become noticed and build at least a small level of fans. So there's no one method now. In the 2000s, there really was only one method. I think everyone does what you did. [1:17:10] I think it's kind of a trailblazer kind of thing. [1:17:12] I don't know about that. Listen, I have no respect for you. You were very unfair to Kobe. No, no. But I mean it. I think you kind of changed things. Like, I don't know. We didn't know where Walter Cronkite's, like, allegiance is... [1:17:24] You were just a writer about sports from the perspective of a fan, I guess, right? I remember the article in 2002. I read it when I was in high school, the 9-11 one. I was like, this is... Do you remember back to that? I'm asking you questions now. This is bullshit. I don't want to do that. Do you remember? Did that feel like a seminal moment for you?

[1:17:54] I remember not being happy with what I wrote, but feeling like I had to write something. But the bigger thing is, I remember... [1:18:00] I remember... [1:18:02] wondering like if I was still going to have a job. [1:18:05] Like I didn't, [1:18:06] 9-11 was so horrible and so impactful to everybody, even people that didn't know one person that died there. But it felt like just everything was going to be different from that point on. I had never experienced that before. [1:18:20] So I was like, well... [1:18:21] Nobody's going to want to... [1:18:23] read about sports and [1:18:25] you know, fucking bad takes on movies. And then I remember at some point, [1:18:30] Um, [1:18:31] Everybody just started to [1:18:32] You're like, all right, I got to do my job again. And I remember within like a week, I went to go see Hardball with Keanu Reeves with my buddy Jacko. The best. And I wrote a column about it. [1:18:43] And I was just like, this is my job. You're the coolest job. This is... Maybe people will read this and it'll take their mind off shit for 10 minutes. But I think that was... [1:18:55] That's the only time in my life I ever remember America like that, where... [1:18:59] Yeah. [1:18:59] where everybody was kind of like, what do we do? Like, [1:19:02] Are we all going to work tomorrow? And then you kind of figure it out. [1:19:07] You just got me really afraid because I've had to, you know, I'm, [1:19:10] recording the world train center right now i was scared enough as it is the first time it's that would be a fool me shame on me situation it's weird to go there and not think about it like yeah because the spotify offices are there that's where you are now and you go and when you read the word on the text this is where i have to go i'm like yeah and it's 25 years ago

[1:19:31] So long. So you grew up and you grew up in California. [1:19:36] I grew up in Vegas. Yeah. But I'm an LA sports fan. Yeah. But you weren't in, you, you hadn't, you didn't get to New York until the mid 2010. So you, you weren't there. Right. Right. [1:19:46] I wasn't there. But I remember in high school, [1:19:48] I was a freshman and I was like a I was like a know it all asshole. And I was like, actually, it's probably the Al Qaeda network of terror because they recently did an attack on the USS Cole. So I was like, shut up. I was like, sorry. I was like, I was looking back on it like everyone likes politics now. And it was it used to be like something that if you like that, you were a loser. And I think it kind of should go back to that. [1:20:13] Right. [1:20:14] I think too many people are obsessed with politics now. I got made fun of for it, as well I should have. [1:20:21] But it's weird to see that nowadays. I wasn't here for that. I was born in L.A. I'm an L.A. sports fan because my dad immigrated in 81 to L.A. and he got into American sports to have something to share with his kids. My dad was at the Gibson game. [1:20:40] Wow. In 88. How amazing is that? I was a baby. Yeah. More amazing that he stayed. Yeah. [1:20:46] Because you go to Dodger games and people get the F out of there before the ninth inning. It's really like you're making a choice. It's like if you stay, it's an extra two hours. It's the world's here. I mean, yeah, it's true. No, you'd be surprised because I went to the 18 inning game in October and – [1:21:01] I was surprised how many people left. My friend was there. Yeah. And he said that it was weird. He said the ball wasn't carrying because there was like a high pressure system or something. It was dead.

[1:21:12] There was an insane vibe there. It must have been agony to be sitting there for hours and hours. I loved it. No, I really had a good... We had great seats, but I really had a good time. Did they stop serving beer? Oh, yeah. They stopped serving everything. [1:21:25] If I had another beer, I'd be fine. I'd be like, can you guys open it back up? We're going to be here another nine innings of extra innings. What you said was the key thing because I forget, somebody had, [1:21:37] would just clearly seem like it was going to be a homer and the thing just died and we were like are we ever leaving so many warning shots i remember yeah yeah i was like i was a big dodger fan uh initially but then yeah i guess my team's our lakers and arsenal and i i watched like soccer a lot now which is the i was as i was saying in the last podcast the worst kind of american you could be it it's like a something that's uh i shouldn't it does feel lame but it's like a [1:22:02] Thank you. [1:22:03] to be an American soccer fan. I just think of, because America... [1:22:08] Because we haven't really had a truly great player ever. [1:22:11] Because the team and the World Cup, the whole World Cup, our chances feel like [1:22:17] we're in a worse spot than we were 15 years ago, even though everyone I know who likes soccer, [1:22:22] insist that we have the most talent we've ever had. It's just that everybody has more talent. I don't know what's true about you. [1:22:27] They have no swag. They don't have that one dude that [1:22:31] A nine-year-old kid would be like, I want to wear that guy's jersey. Maybe it'll happen in the World Cup, though. [1:22:36] The center back, Tim Ream, I saw on my Instagram algorithm, he was doing advocacy for, he said, when I was a kid, I wet my bed. And he's like, one in five kids wet the bed. I'm like, not before the cup. Not before the World Cup. Don't do bedwetting advocacy. It's like, come on. Do a cigarette commercial. I don't even know if they make those anymore. Do beer. Make us look cool. Who would be, if he was in our country, who would be the coolest?

[1:23:06] for America. [1:23:08] Out of any player? Yeah. [1:23:10] If that person just happened to be American. [1:23:13] No, Messi's too old now. It'd have to be somebody younger. [1:23:15] Someone younger? Someone cool? I don't know. I mean, it has... Messi's... [1:23:21] You register that it's the best It's the best we've ever seen, ever I'm aware, I was there for the He's like twice as good as Ronaldo And he still might cook this time around It's weird How old is he now? Is he 40 yet? [1:23:35] I think maybe. Late 30s? Somewhere in there. He's kind of hurt. He doesn't have to go back on defense. He gets to just walk around and then there's this thing that happens inside of him and then it'll be like 12 seconds of chaos. And then it'll be in the back of the net. He's like a bizarre guy. I think he didn't speak until he was like 11. There's something like he was just given by God for this one purpose. [1:24:05] who would be cool to be American? I don't know. [1:24:09] It's, uh... [1:24:10] I don't know. It would be cool if American athletes played soccer. I'd speculate on that. It's like speculating if LeBron played tight end or something. Or like, I don't know. Thinking about our best athletes, if Kyrie played soccer, I would imagine he'd be one of the best. Kyrie's a great one. I always thought Iverson was my favorite one for this game because even there's high school football footage of Iverson where it's like

[1:24:37] He's incredible. And it's just like any sport that he played, he just would have been incredible. It's my favorite YouTube. Just watching. Iverson. What do you think? Do you think he would have been like top five? [1:24:48] football player of all time. Was he like Dion? What do you think he would have projected as? I think he would have been like everything. I think he would have been like almost like what we want Travis Hunter to be except he just would have been at a whole other level athletically. Travis Hunter is an awesome athlete. [1:25:02] Like he's just like a running back receiver type of. [1:25:06] person, I think. Well, he was like an option quarterback as well, right? But I guess everyone's a quarterback in high school. Yeah, you could tell his throwing motion was a little... [1:25:15] But he had a big arm, though. He did, but it wasn't like the mechanics were off. But then when he took off... [1:25:21] He would just run through people. It was like when the gym teacher gets to play with the fifth grade class and he's just dusting everyone. Yeah. [1:25:28] I watch that video all the time. I also watch, there's a video I really like of Derrick Rose doing Chicago footwork when he was in the dance battle against someone in high school. And he's an unbelievable... If a guy like Derrick Rose played soccer, I mean, it'd be... Conversely, Randy Moss playing basketball was great. There's some guys who are just the greatest athletes we've ever produced. White chocolate. Yeah. They were on the same team with white chocolate, right? Yeah. Unreal. Yeah, there was that commercial. Do you remember the Nike commercial? Oh, yeah. [1:25:58] good old boy. I love that shit. I think Kyrie would have been interesting because... [1:26:03] you know he's basically ambidextrous right he does everything so he would have been able to kick perfectly with both feet his footwork and everything would have been great i don't know like it's his center of gravity too like yeah he gets in these weird angles like who's the best 6-3 soccer player

[1:26:20] So many, Bill. So many. All right. There's so many. Yeah. I mean, like Zlatan is doing... Zlatan's 6'5", I think, right? Yeah. I mean, there's... What's cool is that you could be 5'6", and be the best in the world. Well, that's why I saw I was 5'10". You could be 6'4", and be the best in the world. [1:26:40] Yeah. They've had guys that are close to seven-footers, and... [1:26:46] I mean, Peter Crouch was amazing. [1:26:48] And he was technically gifted, too. He wasn't just doing headers. He could use his feet. You know who would be amazing? [1:26:57] as like a sweeper slash a six castle. [1:27:03] Oh my God. [1:27:04] He's a dog. He's an absolute maniac, super physical, like... [1:27:09] 10 out of 10 athlete and, um, relentless. And if you just put him at the six, he would have been out of control. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I think you have like a, like a, [1:27:19] I guess a free safety or a linebacker playing in the back line. Think of guys like that. I don't know. [1:27:29] That's the disappointment. It's just... [1:27:32] I guess we haven't been able to sell it yet. You were saying in 2002, we thought that it was like a moment where we could sell it. But we don't like... I thought it was coming because it started in 94. That was like the first real moment. We're like, oh, maybe... [1:27:45] And then, yeah, the O2 World Cup, that was when my first year at ESPN, like writing columns, and it felt like people cared. And 2014 was another one when it felt like – That was the year we lost in Portugal, right? Yeah. I liked the Landon Donovan-Dev Sears. Oh, yeah, 2010. Yeah, there was a spirit about them, yeah. And it felt – there was a moment when Josie felt like he was going to be the next guy, and it felt like we actually had older guys and younger guys and guys on the way up, and then –

[1:28:10] All of a sudden, we were not qualifying for the World Cup and wondering what happened. A good subplot in the World Cup this year is the Canadian coach, Berhalter, was our coach. I remember. He is just talking shit. He said that what it is is the Athletic Association. He said the U.S. soccer has an issue. It's structural, he said. But he's also just running his damn mouth, which is kind of a cool subplot because we're a co-host in this World Cup. [1:28:40] But, yeah, I just don't – I don't know. Maybe I'm completely wrong. There are people that disagree with me, but I'd see them underachieving. There's always a bump by being a host nation, though. But it's like – it's weird. It's like – are you seeing where they're doing their – where they're doing their training camps, like base camps? [1:29:00] Where? Oh, it's amazing. [1:29:02] They have a, well, they have, like, Bosnia-Herzegovina is in Salt Lake City. They have Ivory Coast in Philly, which is sick. Just imagine that is sick. Yeah. Yeah. [1:29:13] Qatar, Santa Barbara. I'm pretty sure. Makes sense. They bought the nicest place, obviously. There's so many. I have a list, Bob. There's one that was just killing me. [1:29:24] Uh, [1:29:25] Now it's bad podcasting, but I got to find it. Yeah, I thought you were a better podcaster than this. I'm sorry, dude. I didn't have this prepared. Can I ask you a question about the Canada co-host thing? [1:29:35] Is this like in college... [1:29:38] you're having a party at the main house and you're having it with somebody else, but it's kind of,

[1:29:42] their house is over there and more people are in the big house? Or are they an actual co-host? [1:29:47] Are they an actual co-host or are they kind of glomming onto us? Canada. Which, Canada? Yeah. I think that they have hate in their gut. And I think that Mexico is a mess right now. Mexico, I see them completely. Honestly, one of my spices is that as Mexico crashes out of the group stage. Because their fan base is toxic, right? They don't have any players that have any pedigree and play in Europe. They act like they're Real Madrid and they've never won shit. [1:30:17] They should be ashamed of themselves. And Canada has this resentment that comes from their coach. We have this pressure of like, it's kind of America's World Cup still. What is it? Vancouver and Toronto. It's like two places. [1:30:30] I think we're the main show here. Don't forget Canada. It's our show. [1:30:37] I feel really bad, but it's going to be worth it. There's one that is just so... Wait, there's one that is so funny. They have... [1:30:47] So you liked... Right. Portugal is in Palm Beach, which is like, Cristiano is definitely going to go Mar-a-Lago. For sure. [1:30:56] Argentina, this is real. Argentina is in Kansas City in the summer. So apologies to Nick Wright. That sounds like shit. And literally there was a tornado warning first day they were there. [1:31:08] Messi's was just standing silently and still in the middle of a tornado.

[1:31:12] There's another aspect. In Europe, the stadiums are closer to the metropolitan areas. You have the fans marching towards the stadium. Kind of like how MSG is. It's the middle of the city. And... [1:31:25] Going like three hours to fucking MetLife. It's just like you don't have that same atmosphere around the stadium and stuff. [1:31:34] Also, I'm a little bit worried. I'm not going to... Whatever. You know they banned water bottles? That's the other funny thing. [1:31:40] can i just ban water bottles can i say something yeah what is this off to the record [1:31:45] Don't ever apologize to Nick Wright. Not on this podcast. All right. Whatever. Screw that guy. Just sucking up the fucking liberal. No, no. I'm just kidding. No, we like Nick Wright. We like Nick Wright. They ban water bottles? [1:31:57] Yeah. FIFA's not letting them bring in water bottles so they have to buy water. It's like the ticket prices are really expensive. What's going to happen is this. We're going to say... [1:32:06] and I'm doing a podcast about it, we're going to say like, oh, guys, it's too many teams as well. That's the other issue. They expanded the field. There's no groups of death where a big team doesn't qualify because they want the big teams in the group stages. I hate that. I love the groups of death. I love seeing Germany crash out of the groups. It makes it exciting from the beginning. Yeah. And [1:32:30] But something is going to happen. And we that the world is going to explode is like there's a high probability where you see Messi and Ronaldo in a knockout. Right. And I don't know if I can handle it. Like it's it's really just like he has to lose.

[1:32:47] Ronaldo has to lose. I can't see he's going to be so self-satisfied and smug about it. But he has a better team. [1:32:56] Also, there's just like, yeah, I was telling you before, the element of Iran being here in the middle of a war and them potentially if they get second place and the U.S. getting second place in the groups they play in Dallas. Is it on the 4th of July or is it not? I thought it was in the vicinity of it. Yeah, they would play America [1:33:14] And by the way, America getting second place is conceivable. Like that's. [1:33:19] Turkey are flop artists also. I'm not as afraid of Turkey as people are giving them credit for. People are always like, oh, Turkey has something. And they always, them and Belgium, they're just like chronic underachievers. And Egypt during Mosul has been the same way. [1:33:38] They're all in the cup. I think they all kind of play stinkers. Are you going to try to go to a game or you don't care if you go? I'm going to Norway, Senegal. [1:33:49] Bill. I'm not going. You're invited. I'm only going. It's $100,000 for what? It's less than the game four Knicks tickets. Well, that's... The game four, if the Knicks win game three, game four Knicks ticket will become the hardest sports ticket of all time. Because unlike football or baseball, it's 20,000 seats total. [1:34:09] Yeah, it is really, we were saying before, but it is crazy. I'm going to stop saying that. It is crazy to conceive of where Trump is going to be sitting. [1:34:17] If he's courtside and we're just watching it the whole time, it's going to be distracting for a viewer. He's just sitting there. I imagine he's going to be in a box of some sort. See, I completely disagree. I think he's going to absolutely be courtside.

[1:34:33] Imagine his Secret Service guy standing in front of Timothy Chalamet. It's going to be like when Floyd Mayweather sat courtside. They would have his security guards be behind him. [1:34:43] And so I guess that would happen. Timo can't watch the game. His girlfriend. Well, the funny, the thing I was thinking if he's courtside... [1:34:51] You know, the way Trump sits, because he doesn't cross his legs and he sits with his legs out with his with his. [1:34:57] doing the, [1:34:58] With the diamond. The diamond? Yes. Yeah. [1:35:01] But on court side, the seats are like this. And you can't spread your legs out at all like that. It's like the subway. Whoever's on either side of him is going to be miserable the entire game. Because Trump's going to take up three seats. [1:35:12] Kendall Jenner is going to be like smooshed. [1:35:16] That's the other thing. There's, you know, courtside, you're walking by people, there's handshakes. There's going to be people who aren't going to want the handshake. [1:35:23] It's going to be bizarre. And everybody filming it. So if you do the handshake, it's on film. [1:35:28] The thing that's nice about sports is we don't have to deal with politics. It's like a crazy time right now. There was this player named Max Dowman for Arsenal. I told my friend, just look up if he's Jewish. He's up next. I was like, can you imagine if we get one? Because for us, it's just insane if we get one. [1:35:58] then I realized, I was like, I don't want him to be. I'd rather him not. Because it's like, yeah, he's going to have to ask him about the war in the Middle East and stuff, and he's going to, just don't, it's too much pressure. Just don't. Be like an evangelical or something.

[1:36:14] Be like Sunni Islam. Just please don't be. I always talk to my friend Chang about this because he loves when there's [1:36:22] any sort of Asian. Mina Kimes is big on this too, but we were texting this weekend about Dylan Harper. [1:36:28] Filipino mob. [1:36:30] I know. Yeah. So this is like, and I feel like they haven't gotten excited enough about this. And Clarkson too. Yeah. They got two in the finals. But Harper might be, I mean, he's one of the best young guards that's coming to the league in 30 years. He's unreal. [1:36:43] I think we're missing how good he is. Because it's just a Wemby. There was that game in the last... Every series of theirs has been must-see TV. [1:36:52] Spurs. I love watching them. I said in the segment before you came on, [1:36:56] I think part of the key to the series with the Spurs is realizing that Harper is their second best guy. They just have to accept it. [1:37:03] He's 20. He comes off the bench. You just throw it out the window. It's like where Kobe was in 2000. You just got to accept it. Clear it out. Do it. I think you ship swiper. [1:37:17] That's what I would do. I mean, they got to figure out how to win this series. They can't think about it next year yet. But ultimately... [1:37:24] I would guess Fox isn't there. [1:37:27] The team is really bad when he's not playing. When they add a couple pieces, it's terrifying. Yeah. In fact, the Knicks have to win because it's not fair. Well, that's the thing. If the Knicks lose game three... [1:37:41] Then that will open up. There's only 48 hours for game four, and that will open up the hole. They have to do this now.

[1:37:47] This is the best chance they're ever going to have. OKC's going to have everyone back. San Antonio will be a year older. Indiana's getting their guys back. Boston's getting their guys back. Like, this is your window right now, New York. [1:37:58] And it's also just the ghosts of the past. [1:38:00] The Ghosts of the Garden. I mean, it's scary. It's very scary. If they lose Game 3, it will be terrifying again. Because they were so 50-50, both of those games. Yeah. Right? [1:38:11] They could have lost either of them. Usually you win away, it's game over in the series. They're not going to win four or five, but I'm like, I don't know. It feels like this series anything could happen. Every game is just so... It's just actually the best basketball I've watched in so long. And it's like... We were saying before, but there's so much tibs in the team. There's so much hard-nosed... They just [1:38:41] play less minutes. They don't have to play in March. They don't have to play 48 minutes or whatever. One of my weird sports dayers is that [1:38:51] the [1:38:53] The more baggage you have, the more likely it is that stuff will happen... [1:38:58] along the ride to the end of your exorcism journey. Like for the Patriots when we beat the Rams. [1:39:05] We had this game-winning... [1:39:07] Game-winning defensive touchdown. [1:39:10] That got called back because of a penalty. [1:39:12] But as guys run down the sidelines, it's like there's 10 minutes. Oh, my God, we just won the Super Bowl. And then it got called back and all these skeletons popped up.

[1:39:21] And then the Rams scored And it's like [1:39:25] Oh, why did I let my guard down? I should have known. And I think for the Knicks, you got to, you got to, [1:39:31] Quick taste of it when Brunson, when they fell into his knee, [1:39:34] In game one, it was like, oh my god, why didn't I have my guard up? And it's just, there's no easy path to getting rid of all the skeletons. You have to have a couple of those as it goes. Because you think it's going to happen again, and you know how bad it is. Yeah. Like with Arsenal, the saying is, it's the hope that kills you, right? Yeah. [1:39:52] Because every single year, I think something good might happen. Yeah. And then it doesn't. And it's kind of a reminder you're going to die one day. Right. Like, if you're like a fan of a team that wins every year, you are like, I'm going to live forever. I'm going to cheat on my taxes. I'm going to cheat on my wife. I'm going to like, yeah. I'm just, your life is a cocaine, just fever dream. And you're so happy. And you don't think about death ever. Yeah. [1:40:22] to fall apart all over again. And you're like, I haven't talked to my family in months. Was it worth it? [1:40:29] I've just been sitting in this living room. And my wife's like, did your team lose? And you're like, what does that mean? Did my team lose? And then you get mad. You yell. You go for a walk. You go for a stress walk alone. I used to do that a lot when I was younger. A lot of dog walks after tough losses. A lot of just walk in the neighborhood. I went for a walk after the tuck game.

[1:40:52] I went for a walk. I'm a Raider fan. But like, I think actually I stopped liking football kind of after that. I was like, fuck football. I was like, this sucks. Like Charles Winston was my favorite player. [1:41:05] Good for you. So if you had to guess with game three... [1:41:10] Do you think it's going to be... [1:41:12] It's an all-time memorable game? Would you go... [1:41:15] Memorable game. [1:41:18] Um, [1:41:19] disappointing game or just fucking weird all night from start to finish. Cause that's where I was off. I think the vibe is going to be super weird. The whole game, the vibe is off. [1:41:28] I think it's the trope of it all. [1:41:30] And Big Z's there. Mom Donnie's there too. Big Z. Are you the only one that calls him Big Z? [1:41:38] Is that his nickname? It's Junus Elgowskis. [1:41:41] No, no, mom, it's just like, yeah, Trump, if Trump is courtside and he's making out with Kendall Jenner and Timothy's crying, what are we going to do? Are we going to be watching that game? [1:41:52] Can you imagine? He's like, I played Bob Dylan. [1:41:54] The truth is, you didn't even pay for this ticket, Dave. I mean, neither did I, but they're giving it to me because of me, because I go to the Oscars now and you're making out with the president. How dare you? [1:42:07] No, I mean, it's it'll be weird. [1:42:09] But, [1:42:10] I think the truth is he shouldn't go. [1:42:13] Because, and that, [1:42:15] It's just like, it's too much of a distraction and too much of a hassle for a game that's already complicated enough. Like in the league, obviously, if the president wants to go to the game, you should go, but like.

[1:42:25] No normal president would go to this game. They would go to a game in February against like the Raptors. They're not going to go to like game three of the finals, uproot the entire four hour infrastructure before the game. And it's just, [1:42:37] Well, you go to a game where they're going to go nuts if you walk, you go to MMA, right? You don't like, [1:42:42] He might think that's going to happen. People don't think he's doing a good job. He got booed when he went to the polling station in 2016. He changed his residency. But he misses New York, I think. Actually, I've heard that. This is his way to get back in with him. He's trying to start dating us again. Hey, guys. It's like when J-Lo and Affleck got back together. I'm living my best life in Palm Beach, just so you know. I don't know if you saw the pictures. Wait, but... Where is Territor? I'm right here. [1:43:12] return of marvel television's daredevil born again so what's next i've been liberated we're gonna take this city back in an all new season now streaming only on disney plus they're hunting us it's time we started hunting them i can work with them this should be tons of fun marvel televisions daredevil born again now streaming only on disney plus [1:43:37] Comcast is delivering extraordinary experiences in live sports. Through the incredible broadcast and storytelling from NBC, innovative and personalized viewing features on Xfinity and Peacock, and the country's most reliable Wi-Fi, viewers can enjoy every game-changing play faster and more seamlessly than ever. All in a network built to deliver unforgettable moments as close to live as possible. The ultimate experience for the American sports fan. Learn more at comcastcorporation.com slash sports.

[1:44:06] We have to do something quickly on your podcast. Yeah. [1:44:09] So you were on Comptown on ABC, one of my favorite sitcoms. It wasn't a sitcom. It was a podcast. It was called Home Improvement. Your initial podcast was Comptown, and you guys never realized ever that you'd actually make money from it. And then all of a sudden you were making money from it. [1:44:28] And turned it into an actual... [1:44:30] you know, a way to... [1:44:32] Everything that's happened in my life has been an accident. Well, you thought the podcast was going to promote [1:44:36] like your comedy and the weekends and all of a sudden people like that. We didn't know – [1:44:41] Yeah, we didn't know that you could make money from podcasting. And then so that we kind of like, I think, yeah, we didn't know how it was growing. They used to ask us for like interviews and stuff. And Nick had like a no media policy. Smart. And I didn't. And it's just like at a certain point, then you're like, I had to work two hours a week and I became the laziest man in the world. And so like. Welcome. [1:45:02] Yeah, then I was just like, but it sucked. [1:45:04] I mean, you're watching sports for work. Yeah, that's great. I'm so jealous of you. Now that's you. That's going to be you during the World Cup. [1:45:11] Hosting beautiful pod. She's not going to respect it. I'm telling you, she's not going to respect it. I'm a sports pundit. No, no. [1:45:21] No. In reality, yeah, this new show started and it was a joke. And it's really credit to my old co-host, Nick. Because Stavros, who's our friend, he was exhausted and he left Comtown. And I was like, but we should keep doing it, Nick. We have a brand. We should keep going. And he was like, no.

[1:45:41] come town we got to keep going i'm gonna turn you into a public intellectual to into like in the vein of dick cabot but like we very publicly pronounced i think it was a joke i mean it's like i was the least uh uh beloved member of the three by far but probably least talented by far too and not probably definitely i mean they're like geniuses the two of them and uh and then i guess i decided to try [1:46:06] for the first time. I never had... I think I was 35. It's really scary to... You know that? [1:46:12] It's scary because if you try as hard as you can and then it sucks, and you feel bad. That's why I [1:46:18] That's why it's a sport. Like Wemby was like, like this. Cause he tried as hard as he could. Right. And, uh, [1:46:24] Yeah, it sucks if it does go well. That was Shaq in the 2000 season. He's like, I'm really going to go for this and try to win the MVP in the finals. But it's scary because if it doesn't happen, now what? You feel terrible. And it's like, yeah. So then I just somehow fell in. We didn't know how to make a television show. We publicly pronounced to the world we're making a TV show. And then we're like, so we should get some cameras maybe. But we got an office in some building and then we built out a set. [1:46:54] It was all happening in real time. Then eventually it's become a real thing. One of the best things is you have a crazy guest list, I would say eclectic, [1:47:05] is the right word for it. But you'll basically... [1:47:07] You'll interview anybody. You don't care. [1:47:09] I had Sarah Jessica Parker, and then I had one of the Nelk boys.

[1:47:14] Yeah, I kind of like that, is having an unpredictable kind of rollout of guests. Yeah. It kind of makes it fun and feel fresh. But yeah, that's one of the things that I enjoy the most about it. But I don't know. I really like doing them because you were telling me you used to do interviews, but it's cool. I do a lot of research. I do like two weeks of research for each guest. And I have researchers that we hire, like some of the journalists and people that we bring in. [1:47:44] and do research packets for me. But what's really cool is trying to account for what someone is like that you've never met. And then building together the evidence that you find on... [1:47:54] that's been prepared for you. It's like being an FBI profiler. You want to disarm a guest, right? You want them to be comfortable so they'll open up more. So you have to try to plan for whatever tripwires there are so you can continue to keep them comfortable enough. I think the way I do it maybe a little bit is just to present to them that I'm so unserious. They don't have to worry. I'm a pretty dumb guy. They let their guard down. [1:48:24] I used to be on a show called Comptown. There was a time I pooped my pants during an episode, and literally I was laughed at by thousands of people. And I went home, and I was like, I just feel like it was in front of the whole school. And I'm like, yeah. [1:48:39] I might not have kids that are going to hear about that. They're going to respect me as a father. She's like, I think you're getting a little carried away. I was like, dude, why would you even? No, why would you? And how happy it made them that I pooped my pants. The joy that they got. No, and now I'm talking to Gavin Newsom. It's really shame on them. I'm not fully aware of why this is happening, but I'm not asking any questions. I guess the show's good. But it is really, I don't know.

[1:49:09] Like, it's insane how fast this has been. It's been a year since I relaunched the show and made it weekly. Yeah. And it's grown, like, so rapidly. And now I get to talk to my... [1:49:21] She wrote, [1:49:23] I had Bill Simmons posters. Gavin Newsom? Oh. I had Bill Simmons posters in my wall. Oh, I thought you meant Gavin Newsom. I had Sports Guy articles. Oh. And pinup girls. I had your articles and some pinup girls. And me and the rest of the GIs, we used to whistle at your articles. Well, you had all these... [1:49:42] I noticed something was happening because you started to do really smart press. [1:49:47] people write these features about you. I didn't know. Is he the millennium Jon Stewart? [1:49:51] I was like, this is great. He's figured it out. All my friends made fun of me for that. Are you the millennial? And the pictures that they use every time. I'm just like every single. They use one of me like this. And I'm like, every comedian is going to make. I like went to this building for the photo shoot. And they like had me go on the floor with a microphone like this. And I was like, I like stopped them. I was like, can we not do this one? And they made it the main picture. Like every comedian group chat was like, fuck this guy. [1:50:21] But that's every comedian group chat anyway. [1:50:25] Yeah, of course. Yeah. You expect it. It's just resentment and barbs. Yeah, yeah. [1:50:30] I guess the other couple ones I didn't know they were writing. I think it were reviews. But it's just – you know what it is? I think it's really sad. I think it's sad they don't have anything better than this. Well, there was a whole theory post-the-election about, well, where is –

[1:50:46] where's the other version of this I don't know I never understood it a guy that wants to be the president is talking to me yeah to me talking about sports I'm like excited because we're going to go like I get to take a break from the show and I'm just banking episodes I'm going to pre-production yeah yesterday I tweeted at Hunter Biden apparently he's coming on the show and so I'm like banking episodes I'm building out a rollout for season 3 and in the meantime [1:51:16] and I get to watch Ivory Coast versus Australia and tell my girlfriend that it's important. This is business. She's like, my parents are here right now. And you think France and Spain are the two favorites... [1:51:34] I think. And you like Brazil plus 850 on Fandula. I do. There's so many arguments for and against everyone. That's what's kind of fun. Brazil has the magic of Don Carlo. The magic of the guy that's just he just eats food. It just tells them just to have fun out there. And somehow it's just like has this energy, this vibe about him that's just creates this. [1:51:58] Pep Guardiola used to just be in a lair next to a candelabra [1:52:04] for the Champions League final. Just constructing the most psycho tactics. And he'll never see this coming. And then just lose to Don Carlos the next day. It was a perfect...

[1:52:19] destruction of someone that's overly thinking everything and someone that's just like, just have fun. You guys are so good at sports. Can you imagine when you were little that you knew you were going to do this? That's awesome. He's probably saying stuff like that. But, you know, Portugal has the best... The Portuguese midfield is disgusting. It's a joke. I mean, they have Neves, they have Bruno, and they have Vitinha. It's like... [1:52:49] backline is the best. But they're like issues, they're holes you could convince yourself of. I think conventional wisdom is like the [1:52:58] France or Spain do it. Um, and like, uh, does America get out of their bracket? [1:53:04] the bracket. I don't know. Not the bracket, the group. I think they win the group crash out first knockout. That's my prediction. [1:53:13] It just feels like that to me. I think that there's something, there's something just like there's no energy there. And America, the country isn't just going nutso for them right now. What under 25 player do you think Tommy Alter is going to say, hey, I'm going to dinner tonight with so-and-so. It's between games. Do you want to join us? [1:53:31] Which one is he going to glom onto? Yeah, out of any country. [1:53:35] I don't know. [1:53:37] Oh, at the World Cup? Yeah. He knows soccer players, too? [1:53:39] I just feel like he's going to add it to his arsenal. [1:53:42] Yeah, he's going to go to a hookah bar with a living in your mouth. Mbappe is in town. We're going to go to the Bowery tonight if you want to meet us.

[1:53:49] Yeah. Who would I want to... Well, who would I want to chill with with Tommy Alter? I mean, Saka is my favorite player. Yeah, Bukayo Saka. He's like the guy... [1:53:59] He's the guy at 17 who pulled Arsenal out of just the worst period in our history and had been there since he was eight years old. And yeah, it's just like there's something special about that. He's also another guy who – he had a rough season, but I'm going to say he's at a world-class talent level in sports. But he's uniquely – [1:54:21] decent as a human being like there is an aspect of like you have to shed your like uh humanity kind of sometimes like there's a like jordan and kobe kind of had to build themselves into psychos to like achieve what they achieved right yeah and that we there's an understanding we're like yeah if you're going to be like i want to take the last shot at the buzzer and miss you have to be crazy you have to be like it has to be me right you have to like kind of uh build yourself into a sociopath [1:54:51] trying to do. [1:54:52] he, Webby has it, we love it too. He took the last shot of game too. I don't feel like Shaq would have done that in the second year of his career. Or third year. What even is that? I don't know, like, he's Durant and he's, what even is he? But, uh, [1:55:07] But yeah, could you think of anyone in sports who's like just like one of the best players in the world and is just a good guy? I can't think of it, actually. I think you have to kind of build yourself into a monster to be like –

[1:55:21] Does that make any sense to you or no? I think you have to be, I think there has to be a little bit of a zero sum game mentality to really dominate a sport. [1:55:29] How could you get ready in the locker room before a game and just be a lovely person? Right? It doesn't make sense. You have to kind of be like, I want to kill this. [1:55:38] today and I want to humiliate other people Brady post NFL and people are like wow he's kind of weird it's like yeah because you got to be kind of weird to be the best quarterback of all time we had no idea [1:55:52] Oh, you didn't know? [1:55:53] I had no idea that he was weird while he was playing. [1:55:57] Yeah, we started near the end. He's so offended. It's so real to you. It's so funny. He's a family member. He brought us six Super Bowls. Did he kiss you on the lips? No. [1:56:08] Who did he kiss on the lips? The son. The son. Yeah. And so did Belichick, the daughter. [1:56:13] There's kind of a nice thing about kissing on the lips. [1:56:17] Do you want to leave on that note? [1:56:18] you [1:56:19] No. We have to wrap up, though. [1:56:23] I know. I've just been thinking about this last podcast the whole time. No, come on. We're fine. We hit a lot of the same stuff. Why don't you do this? [1:56:32] You told a great story about Kobe and Michael Jackson in the last podcast. We could add on that story because it was a really good anecdote. I had never heard it. [1:56:39] Yeah. Did you look it up afterwards? Did I just state any facts? I didn't look it up. Can you just look it up on your computer? I'm not looking it up. No, we got to go. Tell the story. [1:56:47] We were talking about Kobe. [1:56:49] No, no, seriously. Well, we were talking about Kobe and about how...

[1:56:54] It took them a while to round in N'Kobe and all the twists and turns. And then you told the story I'd never heard. [1:57:00] We were talking about, yeah, there was something about him just having his whole thing about mentorship, right? And then, yeah, but after Bald had Kobe rookie year, Slabdug champion, apparently he decided he wanted to have a man's body. He needed a man's body, not he wanted. But he was a child. I mean, he looked little. Like LeBron, his rookie year looked like that was a grown-ass man. But, yeah, apparently he was like at Gold's gym. He's like lifting weights. And he got a call. It was like, Kobe, it's Michael. [1:57:30] He's like, no, it's not. He hung up and he's like, Kobe, I swear to God, it's Michael. Don't hang up, please, please, please. And so he's like, you want to come up to Neverland? I want to meet you and say what up. It would be great to meet you. So he went out there and he gave him this book. It's like a child's book, Jonathan Livingston Siegel. And he said, I've watched you and you're like me and people are going to heap you with praise and give you everything you want and then they're going to take it away. [1:58:00] but they take it away that you can't stop. You can't stop just what's driving you. And that is kind of a good assessment of Kobe's career. A good understanding of it. But he does this four years before the trial. [1:58:13] Right? So it was like $19.99 range. So it was about... Apparently, yeah. So apparently they were in touch... [1:58:20] well before that. Yeah. But prior to, but since that, and then afterwards, I think when they both had legal trouble, the Eagle Colorado thing and the,

[1:58:29] Michael's second trial, they stopped talking. But, um... [1:58:33] He was like, you can't forget. You have to just push yourself as hard as you possibly can. Do not let them take that away. For me personally, I was so sad. [1:58:51] How old was he when he had three? He was like 24? [1:58:55] Probably, yeah. [1:58:57] Yes. Which is so many chips at such a young age. And then we're like asking ourselves, like, what could happen now? Like he could just win a zillion. Right. But, you know, being back there, [1:59:10] Like being an adult during that, it was always Shaq and Kobe together. How many were they going to win together? Can they win eight? And they were always a team. And then the catch would be, can these guys stay together? And then that eventually became the issue. So my dad, who got really into American sports and Los Angeles sports, after the Pistons series, he stood up with about two minutes to go in the fourth. And he stood up and he shouted, he's like, we never go on family walks. We were like, what? [1:59:40] Thank you. [1:59:40] And he was walking like five feet in front of us, just pissed. This is Joe Rogan? My dad. Oh. Max, my real dad. [1:59:50] Yeah. My father, Joe Rogan. No, yeah. [1:59:53] I didn't say his name. I just said that he was a host of a show called the Joe Rugger Experience. [1:59:59] No, but it was so... I have this memory of me and my mom and my sister, he was like 10 feet in front of us, and we were trying to walk fast. He was walking as fast as he could. He was just so mad. The Ben Wallace Pistons. That was an awful...

[2:00:17] Being a Laker fan, it felt terrible. I mean, that was an even more stunning result than the series we're having now. Because even though the Spurs were a favorite, a lot of people are picking the Knicks. Their center was 6'7". Like, how big was Ben Wallace? [2:00:34] Well, he was like 6'9". He was 6'3". And he was bodying Shaq. [2:00:40] It was like, yeah, what was that team? It was Billups, Tayshawn? We never saw that coming. And yeah, whatever. But yeah, ever since then, tell me how my ass tastes. Shaq has kind of gifted a fourth ring. D-Wade goes on like a historic tear. [2:01:01] Everyone's laughing at Kobe now. Shut up. Shaq was pretty important on that team. He was pretty important. Got to defend Shaq. [2:01:07] He rides D-Wade's coattails to a fourth. And no, no. But everyone's laughing at my favorite player. And I was like, but he's a... Also, I think he was blamed for the breakup of that team unfairly. And I think it was really the buses that wanted to break the team up. And I think that in retrospect, like, you don't think so. There's been a lot of books written about this. [2:01:31] Kobe wanted his own. Kobe was ready for his own team, and I think he was incredibly frustrated by Shaq. Get Smush Parker on the phone. No, but I think he was... I think him and Shaq were not meant to be... They were not meant to be a long-term marriage. I don't think... [2:01:47] All the stuff that happened off the court didn't help either, but.

[2:01:50] I'm going to say that it wasn't Kobe's fault. No, but in reality, I think that it's just like, you see it, it's just like LeBron after the decision. The guy who's beloved, just everyone's like, ha ha. We love seeing people destroyed somehow in society. And then build them back up. In America, we do. In the UK, they don't. It's weird. When I watch British sports, they don't have a concept of comebacks. It's insane. But when Tiger won, I cried. [2:02:20] I never thought I'd see him again. And I was like, when I was a kid, he was in Sports Illustrated for kids. And he was also a kid like me, and he was winning by 20 strokes and making Phil Mickelson want to kill himself every Sunday. Dude, just eat shit every Sunday. This is how I felt when I saw The Town. I was like, Affleck's fucking back. [2:02:40] We are out of the woods. [2:02:42] My guy is back. [2:02:45] Let's go for a ride. [2:02:48] you reminded me that you did this whole bit about Tibbs and Steve Kerr and you wanted to redo it. So let's pretend you're ad libbing this from scratch. I asked you if you were Tibbs' best friend, [2:03:02] Watching the next two games away from the finals. [2:03:05] What would you say to tips? I would say, first of all, it's great to be best friends with you. You're an incredible guy. [2:03:12] You shout a lot. And also, what's going on with your throat? You're always hoarse. Should I make a little tea with honey? I have echinacea. Are you sick?

[2:03:24] um do you think it was necessary to play everyone uh 47 minutes in in november why didn't you trust shaman no but you're trying to lift them up though because the knicks are two games in the finals your dna runs through these boys i mean they that is a fair point yeah be honest like he like built like the how hard knows they are and especially like seeing them collectively deal with wemby there is something about like uh they're like uh yeah he's made them tough like all the even i know [2:03:54] for a year, but it's a cat that we haven't seen yet, right? Yes. But I feel bad. I felt really bad to Mark Jackson. [2:04:06] But he was doing the ABC broadcast the year after he retired. Or retired. He was asked to leave. Because it was just like, how must he have felt? [2:04:15] Like watching that. It must have been like watching your wife having sex with a man and, [2:04:20] Who has the biggest penis in the world. And not only, she orgasm after orgasm. Just sitting there saying, hand down, man. That was good, Deepo Beto. Just like he's whispering in her ear. And you have to, not only, no, wait. Not only do you have to watch your wife having sex with her. The guy that's giving her the sex of her life. You have to give a play-by-play on ESPN and ABC for the next five years. [2:04:46] You have to do, yeah, now he's a reverse cowgirl. [2:04:50] And that's a great reverse Calc or whatever he does. And that's good to eat but better. Oh,

[2:04:56] Yeah. [2:04:59] I would hope that Van Gundy was just nice to him and said, listen... [2:05:04] there were [2:05:06] Come on, man. You're a good guy. [2:05:08] You're a good guy She wouldn't have known that she was going to love it [2:05:12] like this until she went through the marriage with you. She had no way of knowing. I didn't even know a woman could have to have an orgasm. This would have happened with you. Yeah, this would have happened with you if you had just hung around. [2:05:24] You were great. I mean, are you sure for a job you want to be doing the play-by-play? Mike Breen is saying bang over and over again excitedly. Every time your wife, Curry, bang! Bang! [2:05:39] All right, we're wrapping up. [2:05:41] Adam Friedland Show coming back in July and the beautiful pod starting in June on Wednesday. [2:05:47] Chris Ryan, many others. Maybe I'll have to pop up. Put it on the hat. Signing ceremony. Signing ceremony. Great to see you. All right. Thanks, Adam. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to State Farm. [2:05:58] for sponsoring today's show. Thanks to Adam Friedland. Don't forget, he is coming aboard. Go check out his podcast if you haven't listened to it. It's great. Really fun interviews of the whole podcast. [2:06:08] variety of eclectic people. He's really good at what he does. Excited to have him with the World Cup. Excited to lend him CR for a few weeks. You know, we don't always do that. A lot of people want to borrow CR. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo and everybody from my side as well. Here's the plan. [2:06:25] Monday night. [2:06:26] Game three, it's going to end. And then Rob Mahoney and I are going to be live on Netflix, breaking down.

[2:06:32] what is sure to be [2:06:34] a memorable game in some respect. I don't know what's going to happen. I'm prepared for anything. New Rewatchables is coming Monday as well. We did Single White Female. We're in the middle of From Hell Month. Also, we put up a mailbag on Thursday if you missed that one. Just about an hour, but bang through some really fun questions for that. I will see you. [2:06:53] in 32 hours, 36 hours, something like that. Uh, [2:06:58] Enjoy game three. [2:07:00] Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. If you have a problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call [redacted government id] or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call [redacted phone] for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE. [2:07:30] or text HOPENY in New York for Louisiana. Call [redacted phone]. [2:07:38] Thanks to Fuel Meals, I haven't meal prepped in months. If I'm running from meeting to meeting, traveling, or finishing a workout, I've got something in the fridge that's going to help me stay on track. Fuel Meals makes protein-packed, chef-inspired meals that are ready in about three minutes. No shopping, no chopping, no cleanup. Check out the menu at FuelMeals.com and get 40% off your first order with code FMSAVE40. Again, that's FuelMeals.com, code FMSAVE40.

[2:08:08] Stop shopping. Get styled. Not today, sweatpants. Somebody's wearing jeans that fit. Wow! No photos, please. I'm just a regular dad who happens to have a stylist. I really look my best when someone else makes the decisions. Hey, we can all see you two-way mirrors. Just share your size, style, and budget, and your stylist sends personalized looks right to your door. Stitch Fix. Get started today at stitchfix.com. I want to hug you. I'm going to hug you. I'm coming in for a hug.